quote Originally posted by fierobear: Yes, Bill, you are sooo superior to me in every way. I bow to you.

Is that REALLY what you think this topic is ALL about?

Like I said. You can't even focus on the topic and instead turn it into a personal vendetta..

Get a life bear...

The military enforces professionalism. Bill quoting you earlier;

quote They are subordinate to me AND you AND John Kerry AND George Bush. The military is to have the UTMOST respect for all civilian positions. We (as citizens) outrank a general and even the president himself.

Definition of subordinate from dictionary.com

quote subĦEorĦEdiĦEnate  /adj., n. səˈbɔrdnɪt; v. səˈbɔrdnˌeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[adj., n. suh-bawr-dn-it; v. suh-bawr-dn-eyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, noun, verb, -natĦEed, -natĦEing. ĦVadjective 1. placed in or belonging to a lower order or rank. 2. of less importance; secondary. 3. subject to or under the authority of a superior. 4. subservient or inferior. 5. subject; dependent. {etc. . .}

While you corrected yourself earlier by stating that civilians can not order military personal, your statement of being subordinate implies a chain of command amongst both civilians and military. This is NOT the case. 'Out-ranking' someone implies that we can dicate precisely what they do. So you're telling me, if I go up to the president and tell him to get me a season pass to krispy kreme, he has to? Don't think so. While yes, these elected officials are suppose to be civil servants, don't confuse the word 'servants' with being under us.

Being respectful is just part of the military code of conduct of keeping proffesionalism.

I have a feeling it wasn't a 'botched joke'. I have a feeling Kerry was keeping to an elitest status. With John Kerry's status, to make that comment is suicide. He should have known better. Better yet, even if it was a mistake as he said it was, he just should have apologized. The fact that hes not only furthers my theory.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: You're changing the subject. I don't care who said what at some point in the administration, this thread isn't about that. I don't care how Bush got in, you SAY he was just a legacy and didn't deserve to be there, but have nothing to back that up. The fact remains he graduated with a passing GPA. From all accounts he had about the same GPA as John Kerry. For all YOU know, Kerry took easier classes than Bush. Let's face it, John Kerry hasn't exactly shown anybody that he has a gift for public speaking either, particularly after this last comment. Bush did stay in school. He has a degree from a very prestigious school, just like John Kerry. So what, exactly, was KERRY trying to make a joke about? John Stricker

OK there buddy.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/06/bush.legacy/index.html

"Under legacy programs, applicants are given an advantage if their parents or grandparents attended the school. Bush, a third-generation graduate of Yale University, joked about his own legacy.

"Well, in my case, I had to knock on a lot of doors to follow the old man's footsteps," he said to laughter."


Why are you even arguing this? You act like it's not common knowledge that Bush is considered intellectually lazy and was let into Yale based on a legacy admission. Bush is a rich kid who was handed everything he ever got in his life.

Born rich.
Went to prep schools on legacy admission.
Started and failed at muliple business ventures.
Handed a cozy National Guard position to escape going to Vietnam.
Allowed to LEAVE the National Guard while on active duty, so that he could work on campaigns for the Republican party.
Was handed a cheerleader spot as a baseball team owner.
Handed a political team that destroyed Anne Richards with negative dirty campaigns.
Handed the name Bush and dirty campaigned into the White House, then was given the Presidency by a majority on the Supreme court.

How exactly is Bush a "regular guy", how does he "connect" with you I wonder? He's a damn rich elite dummy surrounded by the most powerful political party in the world.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 11-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: Got a "404" error on the top link No more screaming DIs http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,116522,00.html Some fun reading in tune with the direction this thread has taken. http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/672198221/m/6840089190001/p/2

so is it just the army doing that? didn't see anything about marines in there.

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: The military enforces professionalism. Bill quoting you earlier; While you corrected yourself earlier by stating that civilians can not order military personal, your statement of being subordinate implies a chain of command amongst both civilians and military. This is NOT the case. 'Out-ranking' someone implies that we can dicate precisely what they do. So you're telling me, if I go up to the president and tell him to get me a season pass to krispy kreme, he has to? Don't think so. While yes, these elected officials are suppose to be civil servants, don't confuse the word 'servants' with being under us.

Though it may have been misunderstood or that you believe I "implied" they take orders from civillians I can assure you I KNEW otherwise. I was IN THE MILITARYand I KNOW. So the accusation that I implied it was purely based on the lack of knowledge on belalf of those who did not know.

In any case......
We the People DO command the military.. That is the citizens, the representitives and senators and the president.

The chain of command starts with the citizens and ends at the grunt on the ground. I know it isnt easy to see it that way because it isnt tought in school but I can assure you that IS the chain of command.

quote Being respectful is just part of the military code of conduct of keeping proffesionalism. I have a feeling it wasn't a 'botched joke'. I have a feeling Kerry was keeping to an elitest status. With John Kerry's status, to make that comment is suicide. He should have known better. Better yet, even if it was a mistake as he said it was, he just should have apologized. The fact that hes not only furthers my theory.

Kerry was either not thinking or was clearly misunderstood. Either way he isn't my man.

I don't wanna get into a political debate, so i'll end it here. We all win and deserve cookies.

But bill, just a suggestion, sometimes its not what you say, but how you say it. You come off as pretty harsh, just FYI.

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 11-03-2006).]

You're still not addressing the subject, Conn.

I don't dispute that Bush came up in a life of wealth. But Kerry's wasn't all that much different. Although his parents were upper middle class, his relatives, particularly an aunt, paid for him to go to the best schools in Europe. So big whoopdedoo.

I still ask the question what was he trying to say?

He was just as priveleged. He has degrees from the same class of schools as Bush. By all accounts, they had about the same GPA's. He certainly hasn't shown he has anymore common sense when it comes to public speaking or for that matter, even a grasp of the situtation in the world.

So what joke was he trying to make? If Bush is uneducated and dumb, then he hasn't shown that he's any smarter.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: OK there buddy. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/06/bush.legacy/index.html "Under legacy programs, applicants are given an advantage if their parents or grandparents attended the school. Bush, a third-generation graduate of Yale University, joked about his own legacy. "Well, in my case, I had to knock on a lot of doors to follow the old man's footsteps," he said to laughter." Why are you even arguing this? You act like it's not common knowledge that Bush is considered intellectually lazy and was let into Yale based on a legacy admission. Bush is a rich kid who was handed everything he ever got in his life. Born rich. Went to prep schools on legacy admission. Started and failed at muliple business ventures. Handed a cozy National Guard position to escape going to Vietnam. Allowed to LEAVE the National Guard while on active duty, so that he could work on campaigns for the Republican party. Was handed a cheerleader spot as a baseball team owner. Handed a political team that destroyed Anne Richards with negative dirty campaigns. Handed the name Bush and dirty campaigned into the White House, then was given the Presidency by a majority on the Supreme court. How exactly is Bush a "regular guy", how does he "connect" with you I wonder? He's a damn rich elite dummy surrounded by the most powerful political party in the world.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: So what joke was he trying to make? If Bush is uneducated and dumb, then he hasn't shown that he's any smarter.

If Bush was uneducated and dumb, what does that say about his opponents in the last two presidential elections?

http://www.infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/bush_kerry_family_tree.htm

quote Originally posted by fierobear: If Bush was uneducated and dumb, what does that say about his opponents in the last two presidential elections?

It shows that money, power, consolidated biased information outlets, and nearly willful ignorance can result in unnecessary wars negligent government, and incompetent leaders.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: It shows that money, power, consolidated biased information outlets, and nearly willful ignorance can result in unnecessary wars negligent government, and incompetent leaders.

Or that the Democrats are incapable of fielding a candidate that can defeat a guy that folks on the other side of the aisle call a "chimp".

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Handed a political team that destroyed Anne Richards with negative dirty campaigns.

I was living in the sovern state of Texas at the time.
Just an average campaign by Texas standards.

"I have no proof that my opponent has taken sexual liberties with barn yard animals,"

By today's standards?
It was a relitivley benign campaign.

quote Originally posted by DtheC: I was living in the sovern state of Texas at the time. Just an average campaign by Texas standards. "I have no proof that my opponent has taken sexual liberties with barn yard animals," By today's standards? It was a relitivley benign campaign.

LOL

quote Originally posted by DtheC: "I have no proof that my opponent has taken sexual liberties with barn yard animals,"

And you guys have a choice of vote to choose between who has has screwed a goat???????????

I thought Iraq was wierd, but that just takes the cake.

"Vote for me, I'm from Texas and only had sex with my sister----I DID NOT touch that sheep"

LMAO...............ROTFLMAO

you guys are sceeeeerrrrrwwwweeedddd.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Kerry was either not thinking or was clearly misunderstood. Either way he isn't my man.

In fairness to John Kerry, when I first heard the quote, I thought the "stuck in Iraq" reference, which is the part that has everyone all upset, was referring to Bush putting himself in a position where he got "stuck in Iraq." I didn't at all think of it as referring to individual soldiers being stupid, having no other options than the military, and therefore being sent to Iraq where they are now stuck.

And you won't find many people that find Kerry more despicable than I do. HOWEVER, even having the foundation of feeling that way about Kerry, this is all fundamentally unfair to him.

I have a HUGE bias with taking words that could POSSIBLY be ambiguous, and then INTENTIONALLY twisting them to where they clearly weren't intended.

Kerry was taking a shot at Bush. Not at soldiers. But people (and I honestly don't know who they are) have kept fueling the erroneous intent of his statement. Well, that is just blatant dishonesty. And I find blatant dishonesty worse than Kerry's statement. And I didn't like Kerry's statement, even as actually intended.

So I guess I am defending Kerry in this one, even though I find him despicable, because I value honesty more.

And it is completely unnecessary. John Kerry can make PLENTY of statements interpreted correctly to heap scorn on himself. There is no need to use dishonesty to do it.


Regarding the banner the soldiers made, I have no idea of what is considered proper military protocol as I have never been in the military and am clueless. So excluding that consideration, I thought the banner was clever and funny, and also didn't find it mean-spirited.

when will BuSh2 apologize for the poor planing that has killed nearly 3000
and wounded 50,000 of our troops?
WHO HAS DONE THE TROOPS THE GREATER HARM

is the fact john kerry baddly worded a joke the best they can do??
I guess that shows just how sad the GOP's program is
and how little they care about anything but HATE & FEAR

------------------
Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/15915942.htm

I normally bad mouth those Minnesota National Guard boys, but today I give them credit where credit is due!

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/15915942.htm

Ok let's get to the brass tacs of this issue John Kerry said a "joke" in front on a bunch of college kids trying to win over their support and then when the footage of the rally came out and some people got mad about the "joke" his camp tried to smooth it over by saying it was a "joke" that went bad, the only bad part of the "joke" was that there were cameras there that taped him being a chameleon trying to get support any way he can.

Most of the people in the military are there to help them get educations because their families can't afford to send them to schools without some help !

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: In fairness to John Kerry, when I first heard the quote, I thought the "stuck in Iraq" reference, which is the part that has everyone all upset, was referring to Bush putting himself in a position where he got "stuck in Iraq." I didn't at all think of it as referring to individual soldiers being stupid, having no other options than the military, and therefore being sent to Iraq where they are now stuck. .

FL,

I agree with you. The FIRST TIME I heard it I thought he was talking about President Bush. I didn't get the "joke" then because I knew that their backgrounds, education, and history were so similar. If he meant it that Bush was uneducated then he could have been talking about himself, that's why I didn't understand it.

I still don't.

John Stricker

We were discussing this at work this morning and an old tidbit of historical wisdom came to mind...... If what you are going to say can be construed in more than one way then shut the hell up.

If someone else wrote that speach for him he should have skipped that line. If he wrote that speach he should have skipped that line. About the only way he shouldn't have kept himself from reading that line of the speach is if that line went like this.....

"Study hard and stay in school or you will end up liking oranges."

enough said.

[This message has been edited by DINSTAAR (edited 11-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: The chain of command starts with the citizens and ends at the grunt on the ground. I know it isnt easy to see it that way because it isnt tought in school but I can assure you that IS the chain of command.

I dunno what military YOU belonged to, but in the US Navy, there was one and only one chain of command, it it started with the commander in chief: The President of the United States of America. I was never ordered, trained, or expected to show any specific respect to anyone except him and superior military officers. Period. Senators, congressmen, and civilians alike could all kiss my big white behind. They were NO WHERE in my chain of command, no matter WHAT you say.
I'm pretty sure that no soldiers will be sanctioned for that sign. There was nothing but hystrical laughter over the blatent disrespect that was directed at Hillary Clinton when the Marines in Afghanistan (and secret service agents) referred to her plane as "Broom One".

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 11-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Fastkx: Most of the people in the military are there to help them get educations because their families can't afford to send them to schools without some help !

Ya know, I need to be an ass here. You people have some of the MOST outlandish ideas of the military. MOST of those Soldier are in their late twenties, MOST of those Soldiers are not from the the ghettos. MOST of those Soldiers aren't stupid. MOST of your ideas and views are far from reality in the military today.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: There was nothing but hystrical laughter over the blatent disrespect that was directed at Hillary Clinton when the Marines in Afghanistan (and secret service agents) referred to her plane as "Broom One".

LOL

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 11-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by aceman: Ya know, I need to be an ass here. You people have some of the MOST outlandish ideas of the military. MOST of those Soldier are in their late twenties, MOST of those Soldiers are not from the the ghettos. MOST of those Soldiers aren't stupid. MOST of your ideas and views are far from reality in the military today.

It's the popular opinion that minorities and the poor are the first to be sent to war. An opinion supported by all those highly educated and grounded celebrities that people look to for guidance and information.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 11-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: If Bush was uneducated and dumb, what does that say about his opponents in the last two presidential elections?

It's really not hard to persuade people if you know who you're dealing with, and if they don't know you. "Bring it on" is a classic example.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: EVERY CIVILLIAN especially a senator is to be treated with RESPECT at all times..

Bill,
Quite frankly, I'm am totally blown away seeing something like this in a posting with your name attached to it. I can't count the number of inflamatory posts that I've read where you are DIS-Respecting a number of political figures that didn't see things the way you do. There's a name for this, but I'm not going there.

Back on topic.
Senator Kerry's poor attempt to make a "funny" is reflective of the kind President he would have made had he been elected. The Senator is at best a poor commedian, at worse, someone that was elected because of the money he married into.


------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-03-2006).]

Sorry guys, I was wrong.
I remember when I was in and it isn't like it is today. Those kids are doing the best the can and I know that, I understand their frustation.... I'm frustrated too..


Lets just move on. Ok?

----------------
"Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less.” Robert Lee

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Sorry guys, I was wrong. I remember when I was in and it isn't like it is today. Those kids are doing the best the can and I know that, I understand their frustation.... I'm frustrated too.. Lets just move on. Ok? ---------------- "Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less.” Robert Lee

I don't know who you are or how you hijacked Bill's account, but release Bill and go away. Bill may be a crusty jackass, but that gives you no right to hijack his user name and kidnap Bill.

quote Originally posted by aceman: I don't know who you are or how you hijacked Bill's account, but release Bill and go away. Bill may be a crusty jackass, but that gives you no right to hijack his user name and kidnap Bill.

Got a real chuckle out of that one, thanks, I needed that.

------------------
Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Sorry guys, I was wrong. I remember when I was in and it isn't like it is today. Those kids are doing the best the can and I know that, I understand their frustation.... I'm frustrated too.. Lets just move on. Ok?

I know I am going to get things going again but I believe 84Bill is mostly right. First a little back ground, I am in the US Air force, been in for 11 yrs. I believe I may know a little about our system. As far as criticizing a member of congress, you can't do that in uniform for several reasons. First and foremost you are representing that service and thus showing others that the service you represent has that opinion of that congress man. Also as a military member we are held to a higher standard of conduct, regulated by the UCMJ. Another comment was made about when not in uniform you can do what ever you like or say whatever you like to a congress man. Not true. You are a military person 24/7. Now it is true you may join the political process it doesn't mean you can be disrespectful to a congressman, you may conduct a polite argument and still be respectful, saying "f " you would not be respectful.

As far as a congress man being in the chain of command, he isn't but, he officially out "ranks" a military member by the virtue of his office. He is a public servant, much like the military and is afforded the respect of his office by all military members.

As far as getting in trouble there are several laws under the UCMJ that are generic to cover things like this. Look at article 117 and 134 (2 of them fit).

Now I don't see much offense personally with this picture but in the military many things can become of it. It would not be too difficult to get in trouble with this picture.

Another comment made about the stress card. In my opinion that has been a rumor for a long as I have been in. I have never witnessed this not has anyone I have talked to. I am not discrediting it but it is most likely a rumor that won't die. As far as being weak and wimpy, we may not have had it as tough as the guys back before us but we are smarter, doing more with less. Don't think that because we do it differently, that we are somehow weaker. Our weapons are ten times as powerful as in WWII therefore we don't need to be a strong to operate them, just smarter. We are much more enlightened than our previous military members and we are continuously being challenge to do more with even less people. Give us a break we are doing the best we can but I guarantee you we still can kick ass "ANYWHERE" in the world. You spend a year over there in the desert being shot at and bombed, then come back and tell me our military is weak and wimpy.

quote Originally posted by Grim001: I know I am going to get things going again but I believe 84Bill is mostly right. First a little back ground, I am in the US Air force, been in for 11 yrs. I believe I may know a little about our system. As far as criticizing a member of congress, you can't do that in uniform for several reasons. First and foremost you are representing that service and thus showing others that the service you represent has that opinion of that congress man. Also as a military member we are held to a higher standard of conduct, regulated by the UCMJ. Another comment was made about when not in uniform you can do what ever you like or say whatever you like to a congress man. Not true. You are a military person 24/7. Now it is true you may join the political process it doesn't mean you can be disrespectful to a congressman, you may conduct a polite argument and still be respectful, saying "f " you would not be respectful. As far as a congress man being in the chain of command, he isn't but, he officially out "ranks" a military member by the virtue of his office. He is a public servant, much like the military and is afforded the respect of his office by all military members. As far as getting in trouble there are several laws under the UCMJ that are generic to cover things like this. Look at article 117 and 134 (2 of them fit). Now I don't see much offense personally with this picture but in the military many things can become of it. It would not be too difficult to get in trouble with this picture. Another comment made about the stress card. In my opinion that has been a rumor for a long as I have been in. I have never witnessed this not has anyone I have talked to. I am not discrediting it but it is most likely a rumor that won't die. As far as being weak and wimpy, we may not have had it as tough as the guys back before us but we are smarter, doing more with less. Don't think that because we do it differently, that we are somehow weaker. Our weapons are ten times as powerful as in WWII therefore we don't need to be a strong to operate them, just smarter. We are much more enlightened than our previous military members and we are continuously being challenge to do more with even less people. Give us a break we are doing the best we can but I guarantee you we still can kick ass "ANYWHERE" in the world. You spend a year over there in the desert being shot at and bombed, then come back and tell me our military is weak and wimpy.

Grim.......

A) Article 134 is SEXUAL MISCONDUCT!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Well part of it. Are you looking at the Disloyal Statements part of Article 134?)

Article 134—Disloyal statements
Text.
See Paragraph 60.
Elements.
(1) That the accused made a certain statement;
(2) That the statement was communicated to another person;
(3) That the statement was disloyal to the United States;
(4) That the statement was made with the intent to promote disloyalty or disaffection toward the United States by any member of the armed forces or to interfere with or impair the loyalty to the United States or good order and discipline of any member of the armed forces; and
(5) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
Explanation.
Certain disloyal statements by military personnel may not constitute an offense under 18 U.S.C.
Military Criminal LawOn / Off base Cases, Court Martial Criminal Defense Attorneyswww.criminalattorney.com
Court Martial SpecialistsContact the nation's top military defense lawyer for a free case evalwww.militarydefense.com
Military RecordSearch anyone's military record. Start a preliminary records search.www.Trace-A-Military-Record.org
§§ 2385, 2387, and 2388, but may, under the circumstances, be punishable under this article. Examples include praising the enemy, attacking the war aims of the United States, or denouncing our form of government with the intent to promote disloyalty or disaffection among members of the armed services. A declaration of personal belief can amount to a disloyal statement if it disavows allegiance owed to the United States by the declarant. The disloyalty involved for this offense must be to the United States as a political entity and not merely to a department or other agency that is a part of its administration.
Ummm, where's the disloyal statement here?

B) 117.......Article 117—Provoking speeches or gestures

Text.

“Any person subject to this chapter who uses provoking or reproachful words or gestures towards any other person subject to this chapter shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.

(1) That the accused wrongfully used words or gestures toward a certain person;

(2) That the words or gestures used were provoking or reproachful; and

(3) That the person toward whom the words or gestures were used was a person subject to the code.

Explanation.

(1) In general. As used in this article, “provoking” and “reproachful” describe those words or gestures which are used in the presence of the person to whom they are directed and which a reasonable person would expect to induce a breach of the peace under the circumstances.

Ummmmm, They weren't provoking anyone. Article 117 is slapped against someone that flips a guy off and starts a fight.

"You spend a year over there in the desert being shot at and bombed, then come back and tell me our military is weak and wimpy. "

Okay, I'll play, Flyboy.........Our military, is weak and wimpy (Compared to 10 years ago or 20-30 years ago.) <--------20 years in and counting, Former Field Artillery and Combat Engineer (Sapper), I have Desert Storm and a year in Iraq OIF III under my belt.


Oh, and on the stress card...... I dealt with the one I saw at Fort Lee, VA in 1994 in the Army. That would be a year BEFORE you went into the Air Force The card had a "mood ring" type finger print area and "how to relieve stress" written on it.

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 11-03-2006).]

Aceman, thanks for your answer, while I respect that you have a different opinion it is hard for me to grasp your comment that we are "weak and wimpy" because you are serving. I have been taught to take pride in my work and my career. I would never characterize the military as such being intimately knowledgeable of its inner workings, such as yourself. I know we have issues but being a large organization and with the rules we have it takes time to change the bad and enforce the good.

Most people who say those remarks are generally disliking the aim to be smart and not work as hard or stuck in the old way of doing things, I am not saying you are among them. We must evolve with the technology if we are to survive as the dominate force in the world. Most people mistake trying to do things better with being lazy. We don't have as many people to do the job as we once did so we must do it better, faster, and smarter.

As far as the articles what you printed, they seem to fit the scenario to me. The banner was "provoking" to me. I guess ultimately it will be up to the legal "Es" to determine that.

As for the "fly boy" comment, I hope you know everyone in the Air Force isn't a pilot, as a matter of fact I work on missiles and don't know too much about airplanes. But thanks for the compliment.

The stress card scenario you wrote. Was it a card informing them how to relieve stress or a method to get their TI to ease up. It wasn't to clear. I receive info on how to relieve stress all the time, that doesn't make me a wus does it, efficient and smart in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Grim001 (edited 11-03-2006).]

Grim, you don't work with a large amount of Airmen, do you? You don't directly train a dozen or so Airmen, do you? Nothing wrong with that, but I have and do. I was telling 84Bill of the most technically proficient, best personnel sergeant I've ever had under me. She was a intelligent, tree hugging liberal. Joined the military for college benefits. AND WAS WORTHLESS AND WEAK IN A COMBAT SITUATION! I can go on about how Soldiers have gotten smarter and the Army's gotten weaker. Don't get me wrong, I hate dealing with rocks and trying to get a concept through to them, but at times they're better than some educated brainiac that decides he or she needs to over-analyze a simple operation. It ain't rocket science, it's how to defeat the enemy decisively. I'm an intelligent and educated man. I attended college before the Army and have a degree in Criminal Justice, but I know how to "forget about all that" before I go to work many days and KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

You Flyboys....My battalion had a Gun Truck company of Airmen. I'd trust my life to them any day of the week! I spent most of the time dealing with their Supply Sergeant. Nice guy. Worthless though. Always over-analyzed the simplest process! Spent more time thinking of how to work the process than getting it done.

I can say that this is not the Army I joined..............This is not my Army. This was said by my father-in-law that retired in 1999 with 30 years in and a Vietnam Vet. My Army wasn't his Army. And, you will say that about your Air Force if you stay in 20. I can't speak for Topcat or others, but I bet they'll say the same.


Oh, and the banner was provoking TO you, but it didn't provoke you. A former Section Chief once taught me........Black is black, white is white, there is no gray when reading military regs. The banner and the picture's intent was not to provoke YOU. It may have been there to provoke Senator Kerry. However, I haven't seen Senator Kerry get provoked where he breached the peace, so I don't see how Article 117 came be made to stick in this situation. (I'm a trained Army paralegal, too )

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 11-03-2006).]

quote As for the "fly boy" comment, I hope you know everyone in the Air Force isn't a pilot

That's for damn sure... and another thing that's for damn sure is that this thread has gone so far off topic I don't even know what the original subject was.

Lemonade, anyone?

[This message has been edited by Falcon4 (edited 11-03-2006).]

Edit

[This message has been edited by isthiswhereiputausername? (edited 11-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by aceman: Grim, you don't work with a large amount of Airmen, do you? You don't directly train a dozen or so Airmen, do you? Nothing wrong with that, but I have and do. I was telling 84Bill of the most technically proficient, best personnel sergeant I've ever had under me. She was a intelligent, tree hugging liberal. Joined the military for college benefits. AND WAS WORTHLESS AND WEAK IN A COMBAT SITUATION! I can go on about how Soldiers have gotten smarter and the Army's gotten weaker. Don't get me wrong, I hate dealing with rocks and trying to get a concept through to them, but at times they're better than some educated brainiac that decides he or she needs to over-analyze a simple operation. It ain't rocket science, it's how to defeat the enemy decisively. I'm an intelligent and educated man. I attended college before the Army and have a degree in Criminal Justice, but I know how to "forget about all that" before I go to work many days and KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

No offense, but the army of ANY country isn't aimed at the rocket scientist.. It's a lot easier to get someones who is NOT to take a bullet for something he doesn't believe in.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Thats not at all funny. In fact that is court martial material.

Why is that? its a joke against a senator, not the commander in chief, or a slam against their job.

I think this would fall under free speech ( and yes, i realize that is defined differently when you are in the military and at war )


( oh, and i think its funny as hell )

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 11-04-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: John Kerry is a Senator and as such is to be respected for that position by those in the military.

The way YOU respect President Bush no doubt.

84Bill's hypocricy train rolls on.