Let him die...

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Hmm. I never heard of Stanley Tookie Williams until now. Nor have I read his books. I never needed a "book" to tell me that being in gangs is a bad thing. I learned that from my parents. As for his "Stay of Execution"....hmm? If there isn't any issues with evidence, police tampering, or lies from snitches-----it's the Governors' call.

But there is... he has always maintained his innocence in the murders he was convicted of, there was tampering, paid snitches etc. The prosecutor had a jury pool with less than 1% blacks and excluded the three that came up based on race. The murder weapon was found under the bed of a couple that was under investigation for murder which was dropped when they testified that Tookie 'confessed' to them. The jailhouse snitch that also testified the Tookie 'confessed' to him was a white paid informant with the case file in his cell and was getting reduced sentence for his crimes. The jury didn't know this. There was no physical evidence tying Tookie to the crime apparently, and the physical evidence appears to exclude rather than include him.

He wasn't a good boy at the time and the idea seems to be that police got to close a crime and if he wasn't guilty of this crime everyone can be sure he was guilty of something....

http://www.tookie.com/tookie_fact_sheet_10.18.05.pdf

Tookie has had every opportunity and then some. He's had 25 years and every legal option on the books explored and every Court in the land has said the same thing, NO. Between 4 murders and founding one of the most notorious gangs around, I don't think he has a lot going for him on the plus side. Most of what I would say has already been covered by others, so I'll just say no, no clemency.

We should televise the execution live. On every channel.
Then barbecue the body over an oak fire.
LIVE.
And have a lottery to decide who gets the privelege of dining on the cooked flesh.

Enough of a "deterrent" now?

Too bad there isn't any cable TV in the ghetto.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 12-12-2005).]

1. He was convicted of the crime.
2. He was sentenced for the crime he was convicted of doing.
3. Any evidence or witnesses that might have been in question most likely were brought up numerous times in numerous appeals over the last 25 years.

What he did while imprisoned doesn't change the above.

Not sure if any of you have heard this in the past few days but i have on the news on the sports station that i listen to. They do a 15 minute news segment in the morning. Anyways.

1. According to the guards at the prision, they believe he is still in control of the Crypts and having them carry out what he wants.
2. The crimes he is accused of 1rst he killed a father at a hotel along with his son and daughter (young kids). The second he kill someone at a 7-11 for no reason. Then stood over the guy as he was gurgling he last breath and mocked him.

This guy is messed up! that is all i am going to say on the matter. I just wanted to toss in a couple facts that hasn't been discussed yet.

FRY HIM. Lets really show the gangs another way they can DIE

Torch Tookie!!

From the LA Times article (not what I would consider a blatant conservative source) which I posted a link to earlier.

"At least one of Williams' former homeboys has turned against him. In a recent interview with Associated Press, Jimel Barnes, 52, said, "Tookie really murdered those people."

Williams, he said, "went around South-Central bragging about it."

Execute him!!!!!!!! the sooner the better, shame he has to go easy by injection....hanging from shoet rope better!

death

He has just been denied clemency, according to Sky News
Nick

Even if he didn't directly kill those people, he founded the crypts. I'm sure there have been many gang killings from his little posse.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: He has just been denied clemency, according to Sky News Nick

Its on Yahoo now too. Good call, Arnold.

Someone made a good point in an interview... if he's not a good candidate for clemency... who is?

Clemency is mercy, it's not finding him innocent, it's not letting him go home. It's not killing someone who apparently has turned his life around and is doing more good from behind bars than many do on the outside.

Bloodthirsty bunch here. I think we as a society are lowering ourselves killing him. Yeah, he was a bad bad man... but not anymore. He's not a threat locked up... he's even been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for last 4 years or so.

I wonder if things would be different if everything he has done in last 15 years while in prison were the setup and then he'd been convicted of murder. Would everyone still want him dead?

quote Originally posted by G-Nasty: If California has the death penalty & he is convicted of 1st degree murder. Kill the POS. OUT>

Exactly. His peers judged him guilty. Its great hes done some good things while in prison, but I dont think thats much consolation to the families of the 4 people he murdered.

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Someone made a good point in an interview... if he's not a good candidate for clemency... who is? Clemency is mercy, it's not finding him innocent, it's not letting him go home. It's not killing someone who apparently has turned his life around and is doing more good from behind bars than many do on the outside. Bloodthirsty bunch here. I think we as a society are lowering ourselves killing him. Yeah, he was a bad bad man... but not anymore. He's not a threat locked up... he's even been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for last 4 years or so. I wonder if things would be different if everything he has done in last 15 years while in prison were the setup and then he'd been convicted of murder. Would everyone still want him dead?

Look at the other hand.

What if every good thing he has done is a ploy to get Clemency. Once obtained he goes back to the gangsta life style. Can we sentence him back to death?

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Someone made a good point in an interview... if he's not a good candidate for clemency... who is? Clemency is mercy, it's not finding him innocent, it's not letting him go home. It's not killing someone who apparently has turned his life around and is doing more good from behind bars than many do on the outside. Bloodthirsty bunch here. I think we as a society are lowering ourselves killing him. Yeah, he was a bad bad man... but not anymore. He's not a threat locked up... he's even been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for last 4 years or so. I wonder if things would be different if everything he has done in last 15 years while in prison were the setup and then he'd been convicted of murder. Would everyone still want him dead?

You see it as being bloodthirsty. We see it as justice--according to the law. No one is proposing he be drug from his cell and hung by vigilantes.

Virtually anyone can get nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, especially for literature. That's a long way from recieving it.

He's not a bad man? None of us, including you, know that. Maybe he's a good actor and decided he better play the part of a regular joe and play the only card he had--appearing to change for the sake of clemency hearings. Ask any prisoner in jail if they are going to do it again and to the last one, they'll all say the same. "Yes-I'm a changed man. I've seen the light!! I'll walk the straight & narrow."

There have also been convicted criminals, secure, and 'no threat' to others, who have escaped, and killed to keep their freedom. No prison is 100% secure. If no one has escaped from any specific facility, it's only that they haven't done it "Yet".

He didn't want his victims alive-not breathing, loving, reading children's books or doing anything else. He just wanted them dead, then bragged about it. If he's not a good candidate for the death penalty, then who is? Turnabout has come his way.
He was a huge man, had the respect (or fear ) of half of LA' gang membership. Killed a family in cold blood. Yeah, big man. He could write books for all of eternity and that won't begin to pay for what he is convicted of. Every appeals court in Calif, including some of the most lenient in the land, agree with that.

Its the same guy nominating him for the Nobel Prize every year and he hasn't been accepted yet.

Well I say the state has nominated him to die tommorrow and trumps the Nobel Prize nomination!!

Decision made, 12:01 tonight it's done. I sincerely hope he's made his peace with what ever God he worships. His victims didn't have that opportunity.

------------------
Ron
Freedom isn't Free, it's always earned.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Someone made a good point in an interview... if he's not a good candidate for clemency... who is? Clemency is mercy, it's not finding him innocent, it's not letting him go home. It's not killing someone who apparently has turned his life around and is doing more good from behind bars than many do on the outside. Bloodthirsty bunch here. I think we as a society are lowering ourselves killing him. Yeah, he was a bad bad man... but not anymore. He's not a threat locked up... he's even been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for last 4 years or so. I wonder if things would be different if everything he has done in last 15 years while in prison were the setup and then he'd been convicted of murder. Would everyone still want him dead?

Tookie can change , but what he did can never. I don't know where I'm with on this one. . . for one I want his life to be spared but at the same time I know what he did was horrible and should pay the price.

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Yeah, he was a bad bad man... but not anymore.

He's not being executed for writing children's books and not winning the Nobel Peace Prize.
He's being executed for comitting murder.

i hope this doesnt turn into a rodney king like riot we had to hide inside last time, poor trucker got bashed in the head with a brick

"I also didn't expect the Crips to end up ruining the lives of so many young people, especially young black men who have hurt other young black men."

And the purpose of a gang is what? I can't ever remember a gang being organized to read books to school shildren, pass out meals to the elderly and homeless, rebuild neighborhoods, cleanup vacant lots...

"Crips gangs were heavily involved in the drug trade that they commenced an expansion throughout the United States to sell a new drug product called "Crack". Throughout the 1980's and 1990's the Crips developed intricate networks and a respected reputation with other gangs across America and neighboring countries."

But still, he claims not to understand how this organization could hurt others? And we all know that blacks are allergic to crack, so surely it couldn't hurt them.

I guess that all these muscles were developed to help build housing in depressed neighborhoods...

Jesse "Media Whore" Jackson says:

"I will also urge the Governor to halt all executions while the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice conducts a thorough study of the state's criminal justice procedures. This Commission was formed by the state Senate in August 2004, “to study and review the administration of criminal justice in California to determine the extent to which that process has failed in the past, resulting in wrongful executions of innocent persons.' There should be a moratorium on all executions pending the completion of this official governmental body's investigation,” Jackson declared.

What a ****ing moron!

How many innocent persons where/are hurt by the "Cripes" gang when tookie was in charge? Where's the indignation for those people?

quote Originally posted by Wudman: My first thought is to ask where the switch is. Then I understand that in some cases, the death penalty has been given to innocent people. So how about a compromise, commute his sentance to life in prison at hard labor, if and only if he admits to his crime (and apologizes), apologizes to those affected by his gang, (the nation) and dismisses the gang he co-founded as the trash they are. If not, if anyone's execution should be a public spectacle, it should be his.

How many people can you quote that was sent to the death chamber that were inocent ?
Don

Well, if the Crips are out rioting after the execution, you'll know he's still in good standing with them. As far as an effective deterrent to crime, the death penalty is the only 100% effective deterrent to future crime---you won't have to woory about Tookie commiting any more crimes after tomorrow!!!

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: There's also plenty of examples where innocent people have been executed, too. Presumably that left the real murderers on the loose to commit murder again, eh? As far as the Crip goes, basically it boils down to whether or not one believes that redemption is possible. If one's view is that a person can never, ever change for the better, then there's not much to argue. I happen to believe that redemption is possible, that people can change. Look at Charles Dutton as a good example. JazzMan

Can you name some of those inocent people that were executed that were inocent?

As far as the rioting goes, this is a windfall for the police department! How else could you get a bunch of hoodlums together in one place at the same time? Like shooting fish in a barrel!

quote Originally posted by vballman: Not sure if any of you have heard this in the past few days but i have on the news on the sports station that i listen to. They do a 15 minute news segment in the morning. Anyways. 1. According to the guards at the prision, they believe he is still in control of the Crypts and having them carry out what he wants. 2. The crimes he is accused of 1rst he killed a father at a hotel along with his son and daughter (young kids). The second he kill someone at a 7-11 for no reason. Then stood over the guy as he was gurgling he last breath and mocked him. This guy is messed up! that is all i am going to say on the matter. I just wanted to toss in a couple facts that hasn't been discussed yet.

My husband is a guard, and yes, he believes he is still running things from death row. If he really left the gang the other gang members would have put a hit out on him. Instead the inmates are threatening and assaulting the guards over Tookie's impending death. He is locked up and still causing trouble all over the state. This should have happened a long time ago, he is just manipulating the system. I bet you won't hear on the news how many Correctional Officers are assaulted over this. There are a lot of Crypts on the yard my husband works on and I can't wait to get the call that he left work OK.

Jen

quote Originally posted by ka4nkf: Can you name some of those inocent people that were executed that were inocent?

Steven Truscott lives in my town.. I'd say that was pretty close..

quote Originally posted by ka4nkf: Can you name some of those inocent people that were executed that were inocent?

If you really want to know... try a google search with innocent executions.

Here is one hit that case studies 25 probables. http://capitaldefenseweekly.com/25casesdraft.html

Another interesting read http://www.justicedenied.org/executed.htm

Remember that no one goes looking to prove people that have been executed as innocent. You can look at the facts that got ignored, covered up, were fabricated and say they were probably innocent of the crime they were executed for, but no court will 'prove' it.

[This message has been edited by Scott-Wa (edited 12-12-2005).]

San Antonio Express-News

Let's begin, for a change, with the victims.

First came Albert Owens, a 26-year-old clerk at a 7-Eleven store in Whittier, Calif. The gunman fired two shotgun blasts into his back as he lay prone on the floor. In prison, the murderer found great hilarity in the sounds Owens, the father of two, made as life poured out of his body onto a convenience store floor.

Then came Yen-I Yang, his wife, Tsai-Shai Yang, and their daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, who ran a motel in Los Angeles. The same gunman shot Yen-I in the chest and abdomen, Tsai-Shai in the back and in the side and Yee-Chen in the face. The assailant fired his shotgun at close range, producing horrific wounds.

This is how the Los Angeles County district attorney's office describes the scene encountered by deputies:

"As they entered, they saw Yen-I Yang lying on a sofa. He was 'soaked with blood,' 'gasping for air, and making gurgling noises.' They also saw the bloodied body of Tsai-Shai Yang. She was making 'gurgling noises' and 'gasping for air,' with 'her knees drawn up under her, and her face down on the floor,' as if she had been forced to bow down before being killed. Lastly, the deputies found the body of Yee-Chen Lin lying on the hallway floor."

The combined take from two robberies and the brutal murder of four human beings: about $220.

Using both the testimony of eyewitness accomplices and physical evidence, prosecutors obtained four capital murder convictions. After the guilty verdict was read, the murderer looked at the jury and said, "I'm going to get each and every one of you mother f------."

The jury sentenced him to death row. He spent most of his first six years there in solitary confinement for assaulting fellow inmates and guards. The California Supreme Court, the U.S. Supreme Court and even the whimsical 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals have all rejected his appeals.

In 1979 when he murdered Owens and the Yang family and in 1981 when he was convicted and sentenced to death, this violent criminal was known as Stanley Williams.

Today he is known amiably as Tookie, the author of children's books that advocate nonviolence and warn of the perils of gang life. Tookie's long-awaited appointment with the executioner on Tuesday mobilized into action his considerable cadre of supporters — including the glitterati of Hollywood and members of academia who have repeatedly nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize — to demand clemency from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

While Williams has apologized for his role in glorifying gang violence, he has never shown any remorse for the four murders nor even acknowledged his guilt.

Remember Williams' victims. And then, only then, consider that we put too many people to death in the United States. The political necessity to appear tough on crime compels prosecutors to seek the death penalty in more cases than is warranted. Compounding this in some cases is the absence of the option for true life sentences, an option prosecutors did have in the Williams case. Prior to this year in Texas, for instance, a life sentence meant eligibility for parole in 40 years.

And the reality is that against these forces, individuals who do not have access to the best legal defense money can buy sometimes improperly end up on death row. Research by Lise Olsen of the Houston Chronicle presents strong evidence that Texas put to death an innocent man in 1993 when it executed Ruben Cantu.

The death penalty should be reserved for the most heinous crimes where guilt is corroborated by every form of evidence beyond a doubt. Do the crimes and conviction of an unremorseful Williams fit that standard? Who will tell the Yang and Owens families otherwise?

"Remember what he did. It always comes down to people saying, 'Well you know, he's done all this stuff, and he's done all of that stuff,' but he's not in prison for writing books," Wayne Owens, Albert's brother, told the Kansas City Star. "That's something that happened because he's in prison."

Kill him. He got the death sentence for what he did. Not for what he did afterward. They shouldn't have waited 20 yrs anyway.

I am glad he changed. I hope it brings him comfort. I wasn't privy to the trial, I'll have to trust the system (this time). It's no secret he was a murderer but I would be opposed to him being convicted wrongly. I heard Richard Pryor's widow on BET today saying first that Arnold should stop the execution, but then who is she anyway? There have been innocents executed before and there needs to be some safeguards in place for that. Don't ask me how to do that - but I don't see how this will stop or slow the bloods and crips at this point. They are evil entities of their own now.

Less than 4 hours to go...

JohnnyK,
Steven Truscott was never found innocent. He still has a criminal record for the crime.
Saying that however, I do not believe he was involved in the crime. To much evidence was overlooked, and he probably is innocent.
I believe he is trying to get another trial.
Kyle