What the heck is a bonny huf?

If you buy spindles, make sure you know what it came from in case you ever need to replace the bearings, etc. Also, try to find the shortest one you can, so it will be easy to position it inside the fender area.

You don't have to use an automotive spindle. A simple piece of bar stock with bronze bearings would work just as well; and pin the other end. Even a large diameter, Grade 8, bolt with enough shoulder area; and cut the thread down. I just like the idea of having large tapered bearings, to help give the door a smooth, solid, feel.

I am going to try to find some time to do another 3D model of an easier version of what I plan to do. It would utilize the stock hinges and plain bearings as mentioned above.

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-10-2007).]

Hey toddshotrods......your design looks as though you lift the door straight up.....not out then up.....is this possible with the way the Fiero door is shaped? Or will you have to reshape the bottom of the door??

quote Originally posted by SAFASTRO: Hey toddshotrods......your design looks as though you lift the door straight up.....not out then up.....is this possible with the way the Fiero door is shaped? Or will you have to reshape the bottom of the door??

It swings out first, then pivots up. Remember, this was just a quick 3D sketch to illustrate the basic concept. I didn't work off specific measurements. I probably didn't swing it out far enough in the model to make it clear, but it it is out a bit.

I'll try to get a better angle pic of it in an hour or so; stay tuned, we'll be right back...

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-10-2007).]

Thank you. That's how I feel this forum should be. It's one thing putting an idea out there for everyone, then offering to help or sell a part to someone that just can't do it versus asking for orders. You already have my "+', so I also give you my respect for what you're doing.

Now, let's see this design come to life...

Bob

HUD sorry lol, the "d" key is so close to the "f" key lol. Sorry if im a bit of a ghost here, you guys seem to be moving alot faster than i am. Im Outside alot trying to get my 3800 swap running right. Sooner or later i will have to replace the bushing/door pins and when that time comes ill take a ton of measurments. MAn, the weather is crap right now. I doubt ill be going to the junk yard tomarrow.


Thank you for enforceing the open source information! Thats how it should be!

Im in a hurry. Ill post more later.

-Thanks!

------------------

Gotcha (HUD). I was completely baffled on bonny huf

quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: ...I doubt ill be going to the junk yard tomarrow...

You might want to hold off on the spindles anyway. I think I have a better idea for the average DIY'er, using plain bearings and a simple shaft. It'll be just as solid, in feel and action, as the tapered roller bearings but will cost less and be much easier to fit and set up.

When we have measurements to work off, I would like to do 2D CAD patterns for the plates. Those who are willing to spend the extra can take the patterns to a shop with CNC equipment (preferrably water-jet) and have them cut. With careful design all the main pieces could be cut out of one sheet of 1/2" steel, with alignment markings. "Simply" arrange the pieces of the puzzle, weld them up, add in the bolt-on components, install, and enjoy! "Simply" is sarcastic because, even with good design, this is not a simple modification. As with any serious project, expect to spend more time and money than you thought you would.

I have ideas for "spring-loaded" lift assistance. This would allow using a smaller, inexpensive, strut. The strut's role would be to dampen the action, similar to a shock absorber in the car's suspension.

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-11-2007).]

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: You might want to hold off on the spindles anyway. I think I have a better idea for the average DIY'er, using plain bearings and a simple shaft. It'll be just as solid, in feel and action, as the tapered roller bearings but will cost less and be much easier to fit and set up.

You guys want to design with no patents?!

Since I'm working on the other type of door I'll add my idea for free...but it's worth it's worth at least 2¢.
How about an axle universal joint? Out and up with one $15 joint. I just sketched it quick and looks good to me You'd just have to build in a up/down limit into the assembly...not a big deal.

[This message has been edited by Joe Torma (edited 04-11-2007).]

HECK YEA! POST some pics you two!!!!!!!

------------------

quote Originally posted by Joe Torma: You guys want to design with no patents?! ..

Crazy huh Sad thing is that's how this country started and part of what made it so great and so advanced. Now greed is making us...

quote Originally posted by Joe Torma: ...Since I'm working on the other type of door I'll add my idea for free...but it's worth it's worth at least 2¢. How about an axle universal joint? Out and up with one $15 joint. I just sketched it quick and looks good to me You'd just have to build in a up/down limit into the assembly...not a big deal.

Please do. I have some designs for it as well, and would really like to see yours. I was trying to wait a little to give AJ7 a chance to set up the laser beam security around his design before revealing my idea, but my patience is wearing thin. Actually, there are many ways to accomplish the Koenig style doors and I was just going to do something different than he is, when he gets his precious patent...

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: Please do. I have some designs for it as well, and would really like to see yours. I was trying to wait a little to give AJ7 a chance to set up the laser beam security around his design before revealing my idea, but my patience is wearing thin. Actually, there are many ways to accomplish the Koenig style doors and I was just going to do something different than he is, when he gets his precious patent...

heh... it's not easy as you might think. (but go ahead and post pics of them, people are arleady doing it elsewhere)
oh, and I'll have a patent in 2 weeks! (or less) .... so you will get pics then

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 04-11-2007).]

PICTURES!!!!!!

-What month is it ,, and we are getting snow? wtf?

quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: PICTURES!!!!!! -What month is it ,, and we are getting snow? wtf?

yeah were supposed to get 10-12" here tonight and tomorrow, and I gotta go to a town 30min away... may be an interesting weekend.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 04-12-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: PICTURES!!!!!!...

Mine will probably take a while, because I would have to model them to communicate the concept. Unfortunately, I just can't find enough free time to do the things I want to do. Who am I kidding, I can't find the time to do the things I need to do either.

I saw a couple other threads, on other sites, about doing Koenigsegg style doors. There were some interesting ideas. I like how they did the real thing, but hate the thought of spending the time it would take for me to be satisfied with the feel of the door in action. There are some simple concepts that would work well; if designed and executed properly. I insist that anything I design or build have a high quality factory type feel. If it's shaky or jerky I wouldn't be able to sleep at night...

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

I understand. Im that way with my paint. Take our time though. theres no rush. No deadlines.

tusshotrods+joetorma, i thank you granted i will never do these doors.. (im a suicide door kinda guy ) but i love the free help kind of stuff. (altho i am also partial to koinsegg doors too )


+'s! and thanks!

------------------

See my film creations..
See F-I-E-R-O's Fiero store!
Please help me bring Betty back to life!! i need free parts and tech help!
Black Betty Build

Not a problem...I'll make a better sketch tomorrow. I haven't worked out dimensions, but I have a general idea using the U-joint.

Hmm?? Universal joint...Didn't think of that. That's an interesting idea. I can see how that might work. The problem then becomes: How to limit the motion?

quote oh, and I'll have a patent in 2 weeks! (or less)

You must be on the fast track for patents. It took over a year on each of mine...

Bob

quote Originally posted by RCR: Hmm?? Universal joint...Didn't think of that. That's an interesting idea. I can see how that might work. The problem then becomes: How to limit the motion? You must be on the fast track for patents. It took over a year on each of mine... Bob

simple, it's easy to limit the motion...


oh, and it's a provisional.

Grossly Oversimplified
I have an idea in mind for a Koenig style door hinge that would basically ride on a guide rail. The guide rail would be attached to the car, and the bearing equipped hinge assembly would be attached to the door. A cam mechanism would cause the door to pivot upward as it is pushed out on the guide rail.

What I like about it is everything is on bearings, and each action is controlled inherently, through the design of the hinge. The slide replaces the Koenig's huge swingout hinge; and the cam replaces its beveled gear assembly. I think it may be possible to get up to twelve inches of lateral extension, and as much forward rotation as needed.

The downside is there is a LOT of machine work, and the tolerances need to be tight. That means it wouldn't be cheap. I think it would have the solid, factory, feel I desire though.

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: Grossly Oversimplified I have an idea in mind for a Koenig style door hinge that would basically ride on a guide rail. The guide rail would be attached to the car, and the bearing equipped hinge assembly would be attached to the door. A cam mechanism would cause the door to pivot upward as it is pushed out on the guide rail. What I like about it is everything is on bearings, and each action is controlled inherently, through the design of the hinge. The slide replaces the Koenig's huge swingout hinge; and the cam replaces its beveled gear assembly. I think it may be possible to get up to twelve inches of lateral extension, and as much forward rotation as needed. The downside is there is a LOT of machine work, and the tolerances need to be tight. That means it wouldn't be cheap. I think it would have the solid, factory, feel I desire though.

I dont think it will work, but I guess I'll have to see it..

I had the same idea when designing mine, but it turned out it wouldnt give enough outward movement.. remember you dont have much room to work with.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 04-13-2007).]

I'll edit too, thank you for rephrasing... Don't assume you know...

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: I'll edit too, thank you for rephrasing... Don't assume you know...

I re-read your post. you have a good idea, but I dont think it will work that way, maybe with something added.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ...I had the same idea when designing mine, but it turned out it wouldnt give enough outward movement.. remember you dont have much room to work with.

You must not have not have been utilizing all the available space then. I am not talking about a simple bolt on hinge. There would be cutting and welding involved. My idea would require cutting a hole in the body or space frame under the A-pillar to allow the rail to protrude into the car (behind the kick panel). The hole would be reinforced with a 1/2" steel fabricated piece. This piece would be drilled and tapped to allow the assembly to bolt to it. It would be welded on both side of the body or space frame. The block, that grabs and slides on the rail, would travel from almost inside the car to the inside edge of the fender; or however much is necessary for the vehicle.

I still haven't covered everything. There is more to it, but I prefer illustration over verbal description; and I just don't have the time to model this right now. When I talk I have a habit of leaving out a lot of details. When I do art or fabrication it all makes sense --- hope that does. Also, you have to keep in mind that I have been doing this type of thing for over twenty years now. I can tell you with a certainty that comes from experience that I can definitely make this work. In addition to years of experience, I also have the ability to model it first, find and correct all the flaws, before I ever cut a piece of metal. My models have proved to be very accurate when I start building the custom parts, because the parts work, in real life, as they did on the models.

Edited for typos and clarity
------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-14-2007).]

I dont doubt you can make it work, but I have thaught of the exact same thing you're doing. It wont work.. and even if it does there is too much modification. My design is much more simple. But I would like to see your design, would like to see what it would look like actually made.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: I dont doubt you can make it work, but I have thaught of the exact same thing you're doing. It wont work.. and even if it does there is too much modification. My design is much more simple. But I would like to see your design, would like to see what it would look like actually made.

to sum that up it will never make scrap wood move up and down like his does

quote Originally posted by chrisgtp: to sum that up it will never make scrap wood move up and down like his does

get a life man... seriously.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: I dont doubt you can make it work...

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ...It wont work...

Contradicting yourself, but I think I get your point.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ...My design is much more simple...

I have ideas for simple concepts as well, but that's the one I like. I actually like the real Koenig setup best but that would take way too much fabrication to make an integral part of the vehicle - and not an obvious add-on.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ...I would like to see your design, would like to see what it would look like actually made.

I would too. The type of automotive clientele I normally work for would spend enough to do it, but not on that particular modification. Maybe I'll eventually get one with matching bank account and interest in Koenig style doors. Ideally, that would be a wealthy entertainer or athlete. What they would get is a one-of-a-kind, cut-from-billet, sculptured art piece that makes opening and closing the doors a performance art.

Remember, I normally do one-off custom stuff. My clients usually want me to promise that no one will have what they are paying me for. Even if it's a "normal" type of modification, they come to me to do it differently - to make it personal.

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

I am reworking the model for plain bearings, but it may take a while to finish.

I also did a little research on the easiest way to accomplish it. I found a 1-inch diameter shoulder bolt, with 4-inches of effective shoulder length, for about $40. That may sound like a lot for a bolt, but it simplifies the process greatly. Weld the bolt to the plate and a spindle is born! The automotive hub will be replaced with a piece of steel tubing with a plain bearing pressed in each end. Center and weld this into a hole cut in the pivot arm, and the main components are ready - quick and easy!

I still need measurments from an actual Fiero, and I can actually test this as I model it and make sure it will work. I need someone with the front fenders off the car, and maybe a door off. Preferrably, someone who can leave the stuff off to answer y questions, as I build the model.

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-15-2007).]

I really think it's a piece of cake with a U-Joint.
Here's my 2 second sketch...can't find my pencils...I can make a much much prettier one if you want
(I do have 4 years of mechanical drawing schooling Hmm...although it doesn't seem to show in that pic! hehehe)



Not sure of dimensions or angles and such, but this is the general idea.

[This message has been edited by Joe Torma (edited 04-15-2007).]

Had a little spare time today, and I felt like modeling something:

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

That'll work too.

quote Originally posted by Joe Torma: That'll work too.

not if it is actually a 4" bolt like he stated above.

Well, maybe he intends to shorten it. Todd?

I kinda like my idea(not just because it's mine)...smooth needle bearings, and greasable.
But I like Todd's for it's simplicity, and looks sturdy too.

quote Originally posted by Joe Torma: Well, maybe he intends to shorten it. Todd? I kinda like my idea(not just because it's mine)...smooth needle bearings, and greasable. But I like Todd's for it's simplicity, and looks sturdy too.

looks like your's will work.

Hmm...mill/drill/lathe machine comes Tuesday

I don't intend to shorten it. The shoulder bolt can be purchased in many lengths. I like four inches because it provides a more stable pivot point. Also, I forgot to add the gussets in the model. In addition to being welded to the pivot plate, gussets can be added for increaded stability and strength.

I like how you are the expert AJ, but never seem to have solutions - only what won't work I am trying to stay focused on, and help, the people who are really interested; but honestly, you makes me not want to participate sometimes. I hope this isn't some juvenile attempt at evening the score since you got slammed in your own thread.

Actually, Joe, your U-joint idea gave me an idea for a better swing out method on my idea. I like needle bearings better as well (actually prefer tapered roller bearings), but I am trying to simplify this design as much as possible for the DIY'er. The plain bearings I would use are graphite impregnated, so no worries about lubing them.

------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-15-2007).]

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: I like how you are the expert AJ, but never seem to have solutions - only what won't work

I offered to draw up some more pics of my design, which I would draw part by part and tell everyone what they need to make each part, and different ways of doing it. but... no one seemed interested so why should I give my advice to you when you seem think you know what your doing already anyway? I have found that letting someone figure out their own mistakes works better. unless they ask me for help.


The reason I said it wont work with a 4" bolt is because you barely have enough room for that shut let alone open. do some measuring on any car and you will find out you have to make these very small, but still strong. My koenigsegg hinge is about 3" deep x 3" wide. cant get much larger than that even with that hinge, the lambo hinge needs to be able to move outward more. Your 4" bolt might work, but its gettin a little to close to the door/fender for me.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 04-16-2007).]

quote Originally posted by AJ7: I offered to draw up some more pics of my design, which I would draw part by part and tell everyone what they need to make each part, and different ways of doing it. but... no one seemed interested...

No one seems interested because no one is interested in pulling your teeth to get them. People who "have" in this thread post it. If you have it, post it. If someone likes it, they'll respond. No one is going to beg you, like you're some kind of vertical door guru.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ...so why should I give my advice to you when you seem think you know what your doing already anyway? I have found that letting someone figure out their own mistakes works better. unless they ask me for help....

I don't want your advice - never asked for it. I am posting ideas for people to consider. If someone here wants to try one of my ideas and wants help from me doing it, I am there for them. If my ideas inspire creative thought and better ideas from others, it was worth posting them. The idea here is to HELP people.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ...The reason I said it wont work with a 4" bolt is because you bearly have enough room for that shut let alone open. do some measuring on any car and you will find out you have to make these very small, but still strong. My koenigsegg hinge is about 3" deep x 3" wide. cant get much larger than that even with that hinge, the lambo hinge needs to be able to move outward more. Your 4" bolt might work, but its gettin a little to close to the door/fender for me.

I am well aware of the space I have available. I am the guy who encouraged you that you don't need expensive machinery to do great things, and showed you proof of what can be done with simple hand tools. Suddenly, however, you are the expert. The years of experience some of us have in ACTUAL custom work seems to pale in comparison to your great 138 (or whatever you claim it is) IQ. You could be a productive, contributing, member of this society; but you choose to be an arrogant little you-know-what instead. People got tired of hearing your empty promises in your thread so you come here like you're some kind of expert spewing nothing but hot air.

I have tried to be tolerant, and understanding, of your lack of experience in the custom automotive arena, and life in general; but your arrogance makes people not like you. I am slowly but surely joining that club.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ...bearly have enough room for that shut let alone open...

If you're going to be an arrogant, egotistical, little fart then at least learn how to spell.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: ...but its gettin a little to close to the door/fender for me.

It's not for you. You're an expert, this thread is for the DIY'er.
------------------
toddshotrods.com - wanna ride?
crazy projects, features, articles, art & more

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-15-2007).]