quote Originally posted by InTheLead: So you're using treated wood and chromed c-clamps for the lambo style hinges AJ7? Otherwise, interesting thread I hope someone comes up with a good design I'll be a beta tester for a good price (have 4 fiero's on the rd).

I think Chris intended for this to be a do-it-yourself thread, with the information you need to do it. There probably won't be any beta products or consumer products - just the efforts and results others have had. Unfortunately, it looks like there will be a lot of big talk and broken promises too.

What type of hinge are you interested in Lambo or Konig?

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-05-2007).]

Yea I strayed off topic in hopes of a bolt on kit hehe

I'm interested in both kits, mainly the Konig style right now for my Formula.

One thing I never liked about the Lambo-style VDC kits is the door is supported from that one small swivel/pivot location. Before I saw the Konigsegg door action I was contemplating my own design on that concept as well. I would want the door to swing outward on two points, located about where the stock hinges would be. Connecting those, I would have a either a heavy steel plate, fabricated tubular structure, or ideally a machined aluminum piece. This part would have a spindle, much like what I described for the Konig-style hinge (door mount). Then the door would pivot upward on tapered roller bearings, from a really stable base.

With all the money Konigsegg spent to develop that car there is a reason they separated and synchronized the two different actions; as opposed to trying to make one or two simple parts to accomplish the job. Real Lambos are designed for the door to have one motion, but the hinge is still pretty substantial. Lambo-style VDC kits are more similar to the Konig-style door action, in that they really have to accomplish two separate tasks; but make it feel like one.

My goal with my designs is to make the setup feel like it came from the factory. I would like to be able to give the door a little push, like you can with a normal door, and it complete the process by itself. No shaking, bouncing, or wobbling; and I don't have to physically keep it stable through its action.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: I wouldn't recommend those, I'd stick with the decah style ones... those only have 2 mounting points and HAVE to be welded, Ofcourse I would recommend to weld any of them... alot more strength. the design I'll post later, will be the decah style stock mounting locations. It wont just be for fiero's, I'll tell you how to make it for any car. btw, I do have a design for a lambo kit that I need to make a prototype for to make sure it will work the way it says it should on paper.. If it works, I'd be able to sell those kits for about $400-500. because of the simple design... ofcourse this is aways into the future for me.

Dude, please! We've seen your proto-type designs on paper, how much it should cost, and how simple it should be by the recent pics you've posted. So please, Just walk away man...just walk away. Your thread and pics you've posted are making the Fiero community look stupid.

Originally posted 10/27/05 from this thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/055400.html

quote Originally posted by AJ7: thinking of making a kit...... not sure on the price yet but i think it will be around 500-600. it will be a bolt on or weld on for the fiero.

Originally posted on 1/25/07

quote Originally posted by AJ7: probably not going to like this but, they arent that popular anymore.. they would cost me so much to make and so little profit its almost not worth doing.. I've got the other kit i'm working on right now and it will be done soon..

Moving right along to this thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/062991.html

Originally posted 12/10/07

quote Originally posted by AJ7: decided i will make these too, same time as the lambo conversion.. these will be automated(electric), no struts, some modification. who all wants them?

Now this:

quote Originally posted by AJ7: I'm not doing anything with those parts of it... I designed it(just how it works), I have 3 engineers helping me with it. It will work just fine. Oh, and the kit I'm making, was designed to hold a door that weighs OVER 100lbs.

End product thus far after three engineers on the project: Freckin unbelievable!

Please man, please....your making (us) the laughing stock on the internet and every engineer (past and present) beating thier chest right now.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-05-2007).]

*chuckle*

AJ7 was just WTFPWNED!!!!1~~!1one!1 by Curly!!

damn, didnt know I was getting to be so popular.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: End product thus far after three engineers on the project: Freckin unbelievable! Please man, please....your making (us) the laughing stock on the internet and every engineer (past and present) beating thier chest right now.

Man wuts your deal not only do u rip on him on his thread now your bringing your crap to this thread too which has nothing to do with AJ7's thread other than the fact that he put his .02 in. "Freakin unbelievable" is the fact that you dont have a life and just keep ripin on this guy for tryin sumthin that you could never do cuz you have to pay other people to do things for u. give it a freakin break and let this thread be about a "DIY VDC"

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having an import that can run 11's...is kinda like comming out of the closet....your going to suprise a lot of people....but in the end your still gay

What a passanger would say in nascar "Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should go faster. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Can I put my feet out the window? Man, you really like Tide...”

Living with a conscience is like driving a car with the brakes on.

What would be wrong with using bolts to assemble something if they are grade 8 bolts and a little locktite. If you look at most auto door hinges they are quite beefy but the pins aren`t that sturdy. Now I know that most of the force on a standard door is down where the two parts of the hinge mesh together but the vertical doors also have some of the weight being supported by the gas struts, so the hinge is not taking the full weight of the door. This post is good though because now I would like to try to develop something as well. If we get enough people on this project someone may just come up with an affordable hinge.

quote Originally posted by AJ7: damn, didnt know I was getting to be so popular.

Ding, ding, ding! After a year of reading and waiting for the final pictures...you'll see why your so popular. Go back, talk to your engineers, and then post pictures of a actual/functioning/kit. Otherwise, for you to offer any advice to this thread in anyway, shape, or form...including your .02 is pointless and clouds the beauty of Chris's thread to which I was enjoying his "ideas and drawings" and comparisons... until you came along with your .02 No need for additional/endless comments leading back to your threads.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-05-2007).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Ding, ding, ding! After a year of reading and waiting for the final pictures...you'll see why your so popular. Go back, talk to your engineers, and then post pictures of a actual/functioning/kit. Otherwise, for you to offer any advice to this thread in anyway, shape, or form...including your .02 is pointless and clouds the beauty of Chris's thread to which I was enjoying his "ideas and drawings" and comparisons... until you came along with your .02 No need for additional/endless comments leading back to your threads.

See there u go again posting crap that has nothing to do with the subject. man just give it up.

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having an import that can run 11's...is kinda like comming out of the closet....your going to suprise a lot of people....but in the end your still gay

What a passanger would say in nascar "Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should go faster. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Can I put my feet out the window? Man, you really like Tide...”

Living with a conscience is like driving a car with the brakes on.

quote Originally posted by fieropimp: See there u go again posting crap that has nothing to do with the subject. man just give it up.

and this is on subject? like your last post??

please.

now to GET on subject. a friend of mine and myself (both mechanical engineers BTW) have designed a lambo style hinge for an S10. it works on "paper" so to speak. it's not proven at all, but it looks good. and, it's nothing like what's out there. will i make them to sell? hell no. not worth it to me or him. we're both going to build our own though. i have thought about making a mock-up for my fiero, however, time is always against me. one day i'll get it finished though. i'll happily share my files when i'm finished. hell, with what little time i have, one of you will build it from my files before i will!

.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 04-06-2007).]

Holy $hit lolol WOW. I leave for a day and its like a jerry springer show when i return lolol. ANYWAYS...
Lets see some more pictures or drawings or something? Im pretty sure we are aiming for Lambo doors, not the other door name i cannot pronounce. I think the lambo doors will be easiest to make. im goin to go draw. I need to vent some ideas.

I am going to try to find some time to model my idea for my "butterfly" hinges. I have a pair of knuckles from a 72 Datsun pickup that I would use. Ten years ago I started building a Pro Street Fiero but abandoned the project (lost interest). I had these knuckles on the front. I payed $161 for two brand new rotors, and had the inner races machined to accept a bearing that would work on the Datsun spindle. I've been racking my brain trying to remember what the rotors were for, but I think it may have been a late eighties/early nineties Lincoln Continental. The parts guys were patient enough to work with me for weeks searching for something that would have the right specs.

The reason I am thinking about using them is the spindle is really short; and back of the knuckle can be machined down to a flat, 3-bolt, mounting surface. I would have the rotor machined down until it was basically just a short five-spoke hub. I would have a billet aluminum arm cut, from my CAD model, that would bolt to this hub and then to a billet plate bolted to the door (factory mounting holes). The knuckle would bolt to yet another billet plate bolted to the lower A-pillar (factory door mounting holes).

The reason I am talking about it here is I would be using the same concept I have for a Lambo style hinge, just simplified to a singular motion. Someone could take the same design, with a few modifications and make a really sturdy, upscale, Lambo style hinge.

My Datsun parts have been sitting outside for years, so I am trying to get the disassembled and cleaned up a little. Then I can post some pics. It's really sad to see them like this because the rotors and bearings were brand new. I am hoping there are some part numbers on them...

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I see what you mean... Ill draw something new, i cant wait to see those pics you got.. Goodnight!

Okay, one last brainstorm before I seek R.E.M. If you were to use the stock hinges, you could cut the side that the door bolts to and have a heavy steel plate welded to them. This plate would probably need to extand forward at one point. Here the pivot of your liking (tapered bearing, hardened steel pin, etc.) would be bolted or welded on. The trademark curved arm would attach here and be welded to another plate that bolts to the door (factory mounting holes).

The door would swing out on its original hinges, and then pivot up... A stop would have to be designed in that would prevent the door from pivoting until it reached a certain point in its swing. A stop would also be recommended to make sure it doesn't swing too far. The gas strut(s) can run from a low point on the plate welded to the hinges to the arm.

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Maybe more like this then?

[This message has been edited by Chris Hodson (edited 04-06-2007).]

How exactly do the struts that you use on these doors work? When you start to open the door like usual and then it reaches the point that it`s going to swing up how are the struts activated to help swing it up? With just a push?

I started with measurements... it is missing a few things.. lets see if you can figure it out.


And yes I know It's not perfect..

and btw, there is one very important piece missing.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 04-06-2007).]

Your design AJ7 is sort of what I was thinking except I made the plate that goes on the car extend down where you could bolt the stock locations through the top and bottom hinge mounts for added strength.

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: Your design AJ7 is sort of what I was thinking except I made the plate that goes on the car extend down where you could bolt the stock locations through the top and bottom hinge mounts for added strength.

I would add that too... maybe I'll do another more detailed drawing later. but first I want to see if anyone can see something I missed..

It's also very similar to my idea for a beefier Lambo hinge. My version would just have a large bearing hub in place of the pin, and a different type of arm.

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: How exactly do the struts that you use on these doors work? When you start to open the door like usual and then it reaches the point that it`s going to swing up how are the struts activated to help swing it up? With just a push?

Just a push... some will go up automaticly, some you have to push them up just a little..

Kind of, i cant get my drawings up because i left my camera at home. But the thing that makes the door stop instead of breaking the glass or something... would it be a good idea to plan to make it adjustable?

Anyone going to the dells? Ill bring my sketch book!

I have just been so busy this week I haven't had time to do anything. The more thought I put into this, the more I like the classic Lambo style door action. I am determined to build my design, but am not really sure which of my projects it is going to be used on. Until I figure that out, I am going to continue to work on the design.

Here are the rusty, crusty, pics of my Datsun knuckles, and (I think) Lincoln rotors. I know, they look bad but I'll get them cleaned up soon. They should be good enough for a couple prototype hinges. The less I have to spend, the sooner I actually accomplish something...

The first pic is obviously just the knuckle, "as-is". The pic shows the short, beefy, spindle - one of the things I like about them.

This next pic is the back side of the knuckle. The jagged red lines mark the sections that will be cut off. The back side will then be machined flat; leaving a nice mounting surface, with three holes marked by green arrows, to bolt it to the hinge assembly - one of the other thingsI like about these knuckles.

The last pic shows the back of the rotor. The green area is what will be removed, leaving a five-spoke hub. The arm that mounts the door, and pivots it over the fender, will match this five-spoke pattern. It will slip over the hub, just like a wheel once did, and bolt up with conventional lug nuts.


One last edit just to reiterate my goals. I am using oversized components, and over-engineering the hinge, to produce a door action that is comparable to an upscale, hand-built, production car. I want to be able to give the door a little shove and watch it swing out and raise up with no shimmies/no shaking. No door (conventional or vertical) I have ever seen is completely stable, but I would like for it to be relatively steady even while up with a mild crosswind. My plan for that is sturdy, overbuilt, adjustable, limiters. The door will only swing out to a certain point, can only pivot upward after reaching that point, and can not swing in either direction after the upward pivot begins.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 04-07-2007).]

HECK YEA !! NOW we are getting somewhere!!! Dont worry about being busy so much, no pressure. Thank you for posting those pics. These will be very sturdy. Im going to go draw something now. I cant post it until later tonigh though, i still have no way of getting the pics up yet.

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quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: Kind of, i cant get my drawings up because i left my camera at home. But the thing that makes the door stop instead of breaking the glass or something... would it be a good idea to plan to make it adjustable? Anyone going to the dells? Ill bring my sketch book!

Since no one else has pointed it out, look at my pic above. It is missing another tapped hole for another hex socket screw (yeah I messed that up saying cap screw) to stop the door from falling as soon as you open it. then it is adjustable as to how far it will go vertical. It has adjustments for everything you need... I'll do another one that is more detailed if your interested.

[This message has been edited by AJ7 (edited 04-07-2007).]

I decided to play around with the idea a little today. This is basically just a three-dimensional rough sketch. I didn't measure anything yet, I just felt more like playing on the computer instead of with paper and pencil. It shows my basic idea with the door closed and open. I didn't model any stops or guides either.

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Thats really cool, what program you use to make that? I really like that idea, how its hinged on the top and bottom.

Rhino 3D

As I said, this is basically just a rough sketch to help me communicate the idea better here. If time permits, I may do a more accurate, more detailed, version later. I would rather spend the time doing an actual custom setup on an actual car though. I really thought about it for the Camaro but the season is so close and I don't want to be stuck in the shop. I promised myself that any major modifications I did to that car would be done over the winter when it was stored. I still have a long to-do list just to be out in May.

The upper and lower "swing" hinges, coupled with the large tapered bearing pivot, are what would make it feel and move like a factory door. The pins in the upper and lower "swing" hinges, in my design, would be larger than stock with graphite-impregnated bronze bushings.

I used to try and keep ideas like this secret, but eventually realized how easily someone could skirt a patent on such an item. Now, I just hope that if someone sees it and "borrows" the concept it will lead to better products for the people that want them. Also, they would be doing a lot of the R&D for me, and since I can prove that I had the idea first I can simply start selling my own versions

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WOW. sweeet. I think ill be planning a junkyard trip this week.

I got an assort ment of struts today at the junkyard. I found a spindle laying out but couldnt grab it. i already had a bonny huf in my bucket. Didnt fit. Ill go back tomarrow to get some hinges and stuff,