Wow! I've just been watching this on the sidelines. This has gone from someone asking a simple question and devolved down into a sausage-fest!

Let me see what I can do to bring this back on track..............

To address the original question:

"Which is a better engine? More reliable? Aftermarket support?"

* Better engine...........that's a totally subjective question -- what are your criteria? As you've seen here, folks here have their own opinions on what they think makes one engine (just staying on track with engines, not addressing the swap part) better when compared to another. I personally don't think these two motors can be compared to each other -- they are in different categories, hence I think they appeal to different markets (interesting thought that there'd be different markets of Fiero owners!).

* More reliable...............N*'s were touted as going 100k miles before a tune up was needed. That might make that engine seem more reliable. On the other hand, an LSx motor has fewer moving parts, so one could argue that fewer parts means less to go wrong, so that might be more reliable. It is my personal opinion that both motors stock probably have the close to the same reliability. That most likely goes out the window as we start modifying both motors outside of what they came with stock.

* Aftermarket support...........there are boutique vendors offering parts for the N*, throw a dead cat at almost any page in the Summit or Jegs catalog that you have in the, ahem, library, and you'll find parts for the LSx motor. I'd say that the LSx motors enjoy better support.

Questions/things to ponder for FieroTheCat -- what will you be using the car for? Is this to be a daily driver, autocross warrior, track day ride, quarter miler, show-n-shine weekender???? Are you planning any other mechanical upgrades to the car such as wheels/tires, suspension, brakes, etc? Auto or manual? Most importantly, do you have a budget number in mind for the whole car or just the engine portion of the project? I see that you later answer some of these (ie., stick over auto), but some more detail on what you are planning will let us help you out. As you can see, an open ended question can bring out some interesting replies!

Based on your replies, I'd suggest looking to Archie for LSx motor support, and D1S for N*. Note though that the D1S offering is for the entire N* drivetrain only -- no manual option from them, so that might not fit your criteria. Both vendors will offer you a complete end-to-end kit for the swap.

One last note on the case of the Northstar/manual trans route. The trans housing has to be worked on to get things to align. Worked on in this case means some cutting and welding has to be done to the bellhousing.

Hope this helps -- please let us know if there are any other questions.

-jeff "home built swap shown below" d
198? Fiero GT/V8
1973 TVR 2500M (also V8 powered in the near future!)

[This message has been edited by fierov8 (edited 07-19-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You've been singing Ryan's praises for a while now. Is there some reason he's unable to say what he can do himself?

It might have something to do with the fact I am so busy -- I'm booking 12-15 months out right now and need to hire more help. On top of that, the custom chip/PCM tuning part of my business has exploded this year as well. I am working 60-80 hours a week so there isn't much time for me to post here -- or anywhere for that matter. So I have no choice but to let my work speak for itself.

Concerning the "learning curve" comment made earlier in this thread; every swap that has been done was a first at one time. All of my "firsts" are still on the road and running. I can assure you that anything that leaves my shop will be 100% functional (for what the customer wanted and paid for). I may not be the fastest at getting a swap done, but the level of quality of work I turn out for the money is second to none.

-ryan

------------------
power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com

quote Originally posted by fierov8: One last note on the case of the Northstar/manual trans route. The trans housing has to be worked on to get things to align. Worked on in this case means some cutting and welding has to be done to the bellhousing.

Nice post.

The manuall trans does need some grinding to fit a N*, but no welding that I am aware of. There are a handfull of manual transmission N*s running around including mine with no failures to the bellhousing that I know of. Seems to be an ok thing to do. Here is a picture of my bellhousing and the clearancing that needs to be done for the starter.

Edit to add that I also had to cut off that metal tab sticking straight up. It hits the N* water manifold.

[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 07-19-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: It might have something to do with the fact I am so busy -- I'm booking 12-15 months out right now and need to hire more help. On top of that, the custom chip/PCM tuning part of my business has exploded this year as well. I am working 60-80 hours a week so there isn't much time for me to post here -- or anywhere for that matter. So I have no choice but to let my work speak for itself. Concerning the "learning curve" comment made earlier in this thread; every swap that has been done was a first at one time. All of my "firsts" are still on the road and running. I can assure you that anything that leaves my shop will be 100% functional (for what the customer wanted and paid for). I may not be the fastest at getting a swap done, but the level of quality of work I turn out for the money is second to none. -ryan

Good luck finding help with your attention to detail. Like the saying goes, good help is hard to find. Otherwise, you end up re-checking or re-doing everything anyway.
The pains of growing a business, I guess. It's a good problem to have, but don't burn yourself out. I've worked 60-80 hours a week for extended periods and it takes it's toll on you.

I would be interested in seeing a Northstar swap of yours - should you ever do one.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: ........ All I have ever seen your shop sell is hype, no tech, no proven ideas.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: ....... it is really just a frusteration that you just seem really fail at taking advantage of our fiero platform. ...... It really is possible to put a bit more effort in archie,...... take pride in your work!

Wow, at the rate I'm going I'll most likely put myself out of business in 20 years or so.

1st LT1 install & 1st LT1 kit for the home builder
1st & only Suicide Doors
The Sidewinder
The 1st LS1 install into a Fiero
1st & Only available LSx kits
1st Install of an LS2 into a Fiero
24 Chop Top Fieros & counting
The Stinger
The Perfect Union
1st to install the G6 6 speed into a Fiero 13 & counting
1st & only available kit to install a 6 speed in a Fiero
The Arch Rival
Exclusive Home of the Finale & Fino
1st Installation of an accurate GT40 Replica onto a Fiero Chassis
1000’s of neat V-8 Fieros built by customers at home
19 years of V-8 Fieros & counting

What have you done lately?

BTW, Aren't you the same guy who earlier in this thread was comparing the cost of a $500 junkyard NStar homebrew swap to What we charge for a new LS1 turnkey swap?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The biggest thing I get a kick out of is the quote of your site saying that you have stock muncie 4speeds handling 500horsepower v8,

Show me a link to where that quote is on my WebSite because I can't seem to find it.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: Yepper, And here I am 10 years later operating a shop with 4 full time people dedicated exclusively to building V-8 & custom Fieros. Not working on stock Fieros. Not working on FWD GM cars to make ends meet. We're building Fieros ONLY & ONLY Fieros that I want to build. Not working on V-6 engines or other engines I wouldn't drive myself. Right now it's been 19 years that I've been building only cars that I've wanted to build for people who I wanted to build them for. And you know what, my customers must have the same values as I do because I haven't ran out of work to do for all these years & I've never installed an engine into a Fiero that I wouldn't install into my own car. Can you say that about what you do for a living? It just eats you up that I won't model my business around what you think it should be. Too bad. Archie

But what happens when a customer wants a nice 4 speed 65E-HD trans mounted to a LSX engine? I mean its only time before a customer walks in with the money for the swap and you cant help them. I am just saying there is going to be a time when you have to open up the door to the new world. I dont really care how long you have been in business , what you have done or how many ppl you employee. All I can say is there is going to be a time when you finally have to start working on swaps that are using up to date transmissions that can handle todays HP. And YES--I can not sleep at night knowing you will not change your whole business to suit me.

And as far as what I do for a living--Lets just say that just one of the machines I work on daily costs more than what your business makes in several years. We have plants from coast to coast, over in Europe and down in South America and continue to grow. Now on the Fiero side, I am just a shade tree mechanic that has a little shop where I do my work on my personal cars and others who need help. I dont have ppl working for me unless you count my little boys getting me tools here and there. But I can say that my cars are faster than the swaps you do and my LS4 swap will put your little LSX manuel swaps to shame.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: But what happens when a customer wants a nice 4 speed 65E-HD trans mounted to a LSX engine? I mean its only time before a customer walks in with the money for the swap and you cant help them. I am just saying there is going to be a time when you have to open up the door to the new world. I dont really care how long you have been in business , what you have done or how many ppl you employee. All I can say is there is going to be a time when you finally have to start working on swaps that are using up to date transmissions that can handle todays HP. And YES--I can not sleep at night knowing you will not change your whole business to suit me. And as far as what I do for a living--Lets just say that just one of the machines I work on daily costs more than what your business makes in several years. We have plants from coast to coast, over in Europe and down in South America and continue to grow. Now on the Fiero side, I am just a shade tree mechanic that has a little shop where I do my work on my personal cars and others who need help. I dont have ppl working for me unless you count my little boys getting me tools here and there. But I can say that my cars are faster than the swaps you do and my LS4 swap will put your little LSX manuel swaps to shame.

See, that's where you guys keep making the same mistake. You think you know everything about my business & you think I'm standing still. If you really paid attention, you'd see that I'm always working on new products, methods & ideas. When that customer comes along with the 65E-HD, if it's a project that I want to do for someone I want to do it for, I'll be ready. How do you know that I haven't already figured out how that project will work?

I don't care how expensive the machines you work on are, That wasn't the question. Do you own those machines? Does your boss tell you what to work on & when to work on it?

When the heck are people like you going to get the message?

Archie

quote Originally posted by crzyone: The manuall trans does need some grinding to fit a N*, but no welding that I am aware of. There are a handfull of manual transmission N*s running around including mine with no failures to the bellhousing that I know of. Seems to be an ok thing to do.

All the bolt holes line up between the Getrag and the N* block? I thought I remember reading something about 1 or perhaps 2 holes that didn't line up and some alterations had to be made to get them to line up.............maybe altering the bellhousing, the engine block, or both??

The Getrag bolt pattern is mostly the same as the Northstar. There are a couple you have to work with. I remember pics being posted of it in the past, but haven't found them yet. I'll add them here if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

Those bolt holes, as I recall, weren't a big issue. Less of an issue than grinding the support webbing in the case.

Keep in mind the Getrag is an old dinosaur transmission and not new high tech electronic stuff like the 4t65e automatic. Although from what I've read from people on here, 240 HP is more than enough to grenade a Getrag - but a 300 HP Northstar shouldn't have any problems. Doesn't make sense to me either, but that's what people have posted.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Keep in mind the Getrag is an old dinosaur transmission and not new high tech electronic stuff like the 4t65e automatic. Although from what I've read from people on here, 240 HP is more than enough to grenade a Getrag - but a 300 HP Northstar shouldn't have any problems. Doesn't make sense to me either, but that's what people have posted.

Yeah, I know what you mean. If you believe everything you read, a 240HP SBC will grenade a Getrag but the Getrag can handle a 300 HP NStar all day long.


Archie

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Keep in mind the Getrag is an old dinosaur transmission and not new high tech electronic stuff like the 4t65e automatic. Although from what I've read from people on here, 240 HP is more than enough to grenade a Getrag - but a 300 HP Northstar shouldn't have any problems. Doesn't make sense to me either, but that's what people have posted.

Ask Archie how much hp he has had through a fresh getrag. Mine is rebuilt getrag with less than 500 miles on it. I've been in a fiero with 380whp from a 406sbc with 265 tires. It would light up the tires in 3 gears. The getrag survived somehow.

1 bolt hole on the trani does not lign up, just need to fab up an adapter that bolts the trani to the motor.

quote Originally posted by Archie: See, that's where you guys keep making the same mistake. You think you know everything about my business & you think I'm standing still. If you really paid attention, you'd see that I'm always working on new products, methods & ideas. When that customer comes along with the 65E-HD, if it's a project that I want to do for someone I want to do it for, I'll be ready. How do you know that I haven't already figured out how that project will work? Archie

I may not know everything about your business but I do know a few things. Your swaps are slow, overpriced for what you get, you are still using transmissions that cant handle the torque that modern day V-8s are putting out and from looking at your kit compared to a Z-kit(I have one in my shop now on a TPI 350), the Z-kit is much nicer(especially the mounts). So take it how you want, but I know that I can build a faster car for less in my shop than you BIG OL Bussiness can.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I may not know everything about your business but I do know a few things. Your swaps are slow, overpriced for what you get, you are still using transmissions that cant handle the torque that modern day V-8s are putting out and from looking at your kit compared to a Z-kit(I have one in my shop now on a TPI 350), the Z-kit is much nicer(especially the mounts). So take it how you want, but I know that I can build a faster car for less in my shop than you BIG OL Bussiness can.

Ok, so there you have it. You didn't really come to this thread to NStar or LS1 discussion. You just came here for another free Archie Bashing session.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: Ok, so there you have it. You didn't really come to this thread to NStar or LS1 discussion. You just came here for another free Archie Bashing session. Archie

I have no reason to bash you--I make a post, the chip on your shoulder gets heavy and you feel the need to lash out. I somewhat ask you about improving your swap and you get grumpy. I mean this isnt the first time you have done this in a Thead. I came into the Therad being I am doing an LS4 swap, which is close to the LSX swaps.

quote Originally posted by fierov8: Wow! I've just been watching this on the sidelines. This has gone from someone asking a simple question and devolved down into a sausage-fest! Let me see what I can do to bring this back on track.............. To address the original question: "Which is a better engine? More reliable? Aftermarket support?" * Better engine...........that's a totally subjective question -- what are your criteria? As you've seen here, folks here have their own opinions on what they think makes one engine (just staying on track with engines, not addressing the swap part) better when compared to another. I personally don't think these two motors can be compared to each other -- they are in different categories, hence I think they appeal to different markets (interesting thought that there'd be different markets of Fiero owners!). * More reliable...............N*'s were touted as going 100k miles before a tune up was needed. That might make that engine seem more reliable. On the other hand, an LSx motor has fewer moving parts, so one could argue that fewer parts means less to go wrong, so that might be more reliable. It is my personal opinion that both motors stock probably have the close to the same reliability. That most likely goes out the window as we start modifying both motors outside of what they came with stock. * Aftermarket support...........there are boutique vendors offering parts for the N*, throw a dead cat at almost any page in the Summit or Jegs catalog that you have in the, ahem, library, and you'll find parts for the LSx motor. I'd say that the LSx motors enjoy better support.

Thanks, U R one of the few posts on this thread that gave me some useful information. These guys need to lighten up.

------------------
I'll be watching.

-felix


'88 T-Top 5spd
1102 of 1252

quote Originally posted by FieroTheCat: Thanks, U R one of the few posts on this thread that gave me some useful information. These guys need to lighten up.

Felix,

Glad to help -- feel free to PM me for any more info that you might need!

-jeff d

quote Originally posted by FieroTheCat: Thanks, U R one of the few posts on this thread that gave me some useful information. These guys need to lighten up.

Good point. Sorry about that. Most discussions about which engine is "better" eventually have some arguing going on. Choosing an engine is a pretty personal thing - it's the heart of your car, and you're building your car to be what YOU want it to be.

I like most of the different engines for what they are. I tend to prefer the SBC because it's more of an old school hot rod type engine (that also goes for the LSx). The Northstar is a great exotic looking and sounding engine. The ones I've personally seen look like they'd be a major pain to work on, but experience may prove otherwise.

I highly recommend going to a show or club meeting if there's one in your area and see if you can see one of each swap in person. Get a ride in each one and see which one puts the biggest smile on your face. After all, that's the whole point, right?

Then once you've decided on budget and drivetrain you can figure out who's best qualified to help you get the swap done, or if you want to do it all yourself.

quote Originally posted by Archie: So now that you agree with me, maybe we can stomp out this notion that a good Getrag can't handle bigger higher output engines. Archie

Never disagreed, a fresh getrag with new bearings and little backlash is much stronger than a transmission with loose tolerances. Installing a high torque V8, N* or LS1 and not rebuilding a high mileage transmission is asking for trouble. Rebuilds will need to be done more frequently as well or you run into the same problems.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Ok, so there you have it. You didn't really come to this thread to NStar or LS1 discussion. You just came here for another free Archie Bashing session. Archie

pretty much why I came.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: pretty much why I came.

So I would take that to mean that you can't provide us with a link on my web site you prove your statement:

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The biggest thing I get a kick out of is the quote of your site saying that you have stock muncie 4speeds handling 500horsepower v8,

Archie

quote ) With the 4-speed trans. (‘84 4 cylinder & ‘85-’86 V-6 4 speeds) I have used 300+ H.P. engines repeatedly with no problems. 2) With the ‘85 thru ‘88 4 cylinder 5 speed transmissions I have used 300+ H.P. engines repeatedly with no problems. 3) With the ‘86 thru ‘88 6 cylinder 5 speed transmissions, I have used engines rated at 460+ H.P. (One even had an additional 200 H.P. dual quad carb. NOS system on top of a 460 H.P. 383" Chevy stroker engine) With no failures yet.

Not hard to find, I obviously didnt remember that you made a disinguation between getrag 5speeds and muncie 4speeds. It still proves the point that I have personally killed a NOS fiero muncie 4speed third gear with a 240HP motor, and 2 fairly worn out 4speed muncies. It is NOT POSSIBLE to run with any 4speed muncie on a motor with more than 240 crank HP, and you say that its very easy to do it with your "300 hp" v8's.

My guess is the hp rating is a bit exaggerated, or serious work has been done to your 4speeds. I'll just assume that the HP numbers are exaggerated after seeing your famous "v8 dyno video" puffing more unburnt fuel than an oil refinery.

Back on topic, Northstars RULE!





Credit to Zac and Mark for those vids

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 07-20-2007).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Not hard to find, I obviously didnt remember that you made a disinguation between getrag 5speeds and muncie 4speeds. It still proves the point that I have personally killed a NOS fiero muncie 4speed third gear with a 240HP motor, and 2 fairly worn out 4speed muncies. It is NOT POSSIBLE to run with any 4speed muncie on a motor with more than 240 crank HP, and you say that its very easy to do it with your "300 hp" v8's. My guess is the hp rating is a bit exaggerated, or serious work has been done to your 4speeds. I'll just assume that the HP numbers are exaggerated after seeing your famous "v8 dyno video" puffing more unburnt fuel than an oil refinery.

Oreif: 12.34@111mph NB(ZZ4 350-4 speed manual)

But at least you did provide the quote from Archie's page that proves you pulled the 500 HP figure out of your ass.

Hey Ryan, what's in that Seville?

------------------
I'll be watching.

-felix


'88 T-Top 5spd
1102 of 1252

quote Originally posted by FieroTheCat: Hey Ryan, what's in that Seville?

A stock N* with a custom turbo kit. Looks like it hauls a$$

quote Originally posted by crzyone: A stock N* with a custom turbo kit. Looks like it hauls a$$

Indeed!

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: . It still proves the point that I have personally killed a NOS fiero muncie 4speed third gear with a 240HP motor,

3rd is a weak link on a Muncie ..I have personally found that out with my DOHC which is estimated at about 240 hp

quote Originally posted by Archie: Yeah, I know what you mean. If you believe everything you read, a 240HP SBC will grenade a Getrag but the Getrag can handle a 300 HP NStar all day long. Archie

240 HP SBC... you're not talking about a TPI 350, are you?
A friend of mine put down 330 RWTQ with an exhaust & free mods in his '90 Camaro. My Northstar put down 260 RWTQ. Which one's harder on transmissions?
The N* still put down 30 more WHP than the L98.

quote Originally posted by Will: 240 HP SBC... you're not talking about a TPI 350, are you? A friend of mine put down 330 RWTQ with an exhaust & free mods in his '90 Camaro. My Northstar put down 260 RWTQ. Which one's harder on transmissions? The N* still put down 30 more WHP than the L98.

Just in case you haven't read this thread completely, the 240 number is a number someone else brought up earlier on this page. It's not a number that I introduced to this thread. As far as I can tell, from reading the context in which it was used, it was used as generalization. You see on the Internet you find a lot of Forums where people discuss their hobbies. In those Forums are postings by members on different subjects. When other people post to respond to previous posts, those are called threads. These threads can become longer as more people respond to earlier posts in that thread. This is actually a pretty good system when people are all of like minds & pursuing an honest & factual interpretation of what others have to say about the common hobby. The only time this method becomes a problem is when someone quotes a previous comment out of context or attributes previously posted information to the wrong member. Sometimes these responses to quotes of previous comments are just errors & sometimes they are done on purpose.

Well, earlier in this thread someone posted the 240 number, I responded to that post by using that same number.

You could resort to asking that member what he has in mind when he posted that 240 number.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie:

Why do you have to be such an ass all of the time? If somebody is giving you **** , who cares? Get over it. You really need to get over yourself too. You seem to need to constantly judge worth based on what you own or employee. How many times have you posted "I own this and this and have this number of employees" type posts? People choose careers not always looking to make money. I could probably make more money in the civilian world, but I (for many reasons) choose my current path instead.

Basically, the problem I have with you is your "holier than thou" attitude. Yes, you have put together a few cool looking cars in the past and I commend you for actually working on Fieros in the first place. But as a Fiero vendor, I think your attitude gives the community as a whole a bad reputation. What are other potential vendors and car enthusiasts going to think when one of the biggest Fiero vendors gets caught up in flame wars and name calling and rarely backs up his work with actual performance numbers?

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Indeed!

Just think, this 4 door 4000lb STS runs the 1/4 in the same time as Will with his stock manual N*! 12.9@106. Can you imagine what it would do in a fiero? (I can't!)

The turbo STS was dyno'd at 380hp at the wheels. This is through an AUTO, which has been tested to lose 28%. That's 530 crank HP. At 6 psi. With a tiny turbo (T-62). A real turbo @ 7psi would be 600+ at the crank.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 07-21-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Archie: Just in case you haven't read this thread completely, the 240 number is a number someone else brought up earlier on this page. It's not a number that I introduced to this thread. As far as I can tell, from reading the context in which it was used, it was used as generalization. (...) Well, earlier in this thread someone posted the 240 number, I responded to that post by using that same number. You could resort to asking that member what he has in mind when he posted that 240 number. Archie

I could, but that doesn't really matter, because I was responding to a post of yours which, in essence, asked why a 5.7 litre engine is harder on transmissions than a 4.6 litre engine. That should be intuitively obvious to someone such as yourself who is an automotive genious and to whom so many firsts have been attributed.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Just think, this 4 door 4000lb STS runs the 1/4 in the same time as Will with his stock manual N*! 12.9@106. Can you imagine what it would do in a fiero? (I can't!) The turbo STS was dyno'd at 380hp at the wheels. This is through an AUTO, which has been tested to lose 28%. That's 530 crank HP. At 6 psi. With a tiny turbo (T-62). A real turbo @ 7psi would be 600+ at the crank.

This might be saying something for the 4T80e . As for the rest of the thread . . . . . . .

------------------

ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: This might be saying something for the 4T80e . As for the rest of the thread . . . . . . .

What? That it sucks power, but is stronger than Jesus?

quote Originally posted by Unsafe At Any Speed: Why do you have to be such an ass all of the time? If somebody is giving you **** , who cares? Get over it.

Why does that only work one way? What about the people dishing out the sh*t? When people give you grief, do you respond, or just whistle a happy tune and go on your merry way?

If Archie's (or anyone else's) behavior bothers you, who cares? Get over it? Doesn't that work both ways?

I prefer the LSx engines. None of these swaps is easy even with a kit. But I bet going with the LS kit you will get a more complete kit and more support.

Now on the getrags I still don't know why many people still don't know that it is torque that has the potential to break a transmission and not HP. Case above the lower HP mentioned (hypotetical) engine will probably break it easier than the 30+HP N* just because it puts much more toque. I don't know you but many trans I have seen braking on hard launch it is not at high RPM (near peak HP) but at or near peak torque RPM (much lower RPM).

------------------

Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed Yellow: Nitrous 3.4 + 4 speed Auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: What? That it sucks power, but is stronger than Jesus?

That's precisely why I plan on using that tranny when I install my N*. Just install it, and forget it.

I have a 300 HP N * engine with 4T80 trans [ 3.71] final drive. Have driven it 48,000 miles. It took me 2 years to convence someone with access to GM test tuning to remove tourke control & all the other B S that you do not need . Stillnot happy with how it proforms . So I have the answer........ I have anouther cradle with a LS1 just about installed. LS1 ecm & PCS controler for the highly modified 4T65E HD trans. Porshe 930 inter & outer u joints .Fabing my exhaust headers right now.....Lots of after market support. which is almost none exsistent for N *. So if you want a engine with no after market support get a N * & love not have anything.