California kid: Oh, wait, who used to work as a mechanic?? Oh! That was me.... Not you. Wait, who was here basically from the beginning? Oh, that was also me! You were talking about stock cars, remember, and Fiero's aren't exactly up there with the best of them when stock. You can make any car handle good with money and time.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: California kid: Oh, wait, who used to work as a mechanic?? Oh! That was me.... Not you. Wait, who was here basically from the beginning? Oh, that was also me! You were talking about stock cars, remember, and Fiero's aren't exactly up there with the best of them when stock. You can make any car handle good with money and time.

I've been wrenching cars since before you were born, started in a Pontiac Dealership in 1965, have worked in the Big Three doing automotive engineering since 1971.

Who the hell cares who was here first, what does that prove??? You act like because you have more posts you know more???

Yes I do believe that if you take a stock Fiero, replace the aged parts, set it up properly by today's technology, put today's tire on it, and it will still wipe the hell out of a compareable Mustang on a road course. Now if you want to talk expensive mods, dollar for dollars you're still going to lose!

Do you own a Fiero now?

Done talking to ya, bye.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 06-03-2002).]

Whatever kid, they ARE handling gods.. I was wrong.. Forget Lamborghini and Ferrari..

Wow JohnnyK , for a kid with some rusted POS mustang you sure act like you are the sh1t.

I have a 95 Mustang 5.0ltr. I got royally waxed by my Friends N/A 85 MR2 at shannonville. This was running the stock 17's with a nice set of BFG Gforces. My mustang doesn't handle nearly as well as my Caprice with eibachs and big bars, no comparision at all.

Go buy some Bondo for that crap pile mustang and drop the attitude buddy, your ignorance doesn't prove anything more than your just a kid with a mouth.

Cal Kid has more experience in his left nut than you have in your entire body.

JM

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Have you guys ever driven a Fiero? They do NOT handle like gods.. Definately worse than your average new car today like my civic or accord..

Johnny... Not a flame. Just a question for ya'.

How many Fieros have you driven?
Have you ever driven one that didn't have 14 year-old suspension parts?
If I remember correctly, your 85 SE was so badly rusted that the rear control arm mount broke off the cradle, and had to be rewelded. I wouldn't even bet a day's pay on how that one would have handled.

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Raydar

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

quote Originally posted by Slammed Fiero: Cal Kid has more experience in his left nut than you have in your entire body.

Yeah...I think this is about what he needs told. Complete disrespect for others is what he gives, so I guess this is what it comes down to.

Bryce
88 GT

Whatever guys (yeah, I've driven quite a few Fieros)... Disrespect? I give it where it is due... And slammed telling ME to drop the attitude? You should go read some of your posts. If ANYONE has the biggest ego on this board, it's you.. Step back and take a look sometime.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Whatever guys (yeah, I've driven quite a few Fieros)... Disrespect? I give it where it is due... And slammed telling ME to drop the attitude? You should go read some of your posts. If ANYONE has the biggest ego on this board, it's you.. Step back and take a look sometime.

Ego for what? my 86 GT 4spd with a leaky heater core... Ohh baby it's a killer! haha. I can smoke any minivan I want to, any TIME!

I stand by my statement , your a little kid with a mouth, and no knowledge to back up your claims. This is illustrated quite well in your comment that you can make a mustang handle for pennies.

JM

I'm not talking about your ego about your car, I'm talking about your ego in general. You seemed to be a nice guy in chat last night, but you've sure turned into a real ******* over the course of the night. I guess I'm a kid who knows nothing because i disagree with you..

How many brand new cars do you see today pulling more than about .86g on the skidpad? Stock, the Fiero pulled .84g with crappy tires. Start with a decent chassis.. drop maybe $1,000 into replacing worn out bits, lowering springs, and decent rubber. And you're good for .9+ on the skidpad.

Johhny, you're just showing how much of a troll you really are. Especially trying to pull the 'seniority'

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1988 Quad 4 Coupe 5 speed
More pics of the coupe
1986 GT 5 speed, 1984 SC Auto
AOL: LastMinuteBastrd AIM: SavedbyJebus

Do you know what a troll is? I'm a troll, whos been here for two years, and owned fiero's....? Does that make sense to you? I'm not trying to pull "seniority" crap.. I'm just saying, don't act like a such a hotshot and shootdown other peoples opinions when you don't even know about them.

This is good stuff...

JohnnyK, why don't you explain to us exactly how a mustang can out-handle a Fiero with even a maintained suspension?

Then you can explain to me the 2002 (I'm pretty sure it was an 02) Cobra (with R compounds) I ripped a new one in my stock Fiero (with street pirellis) on the road course?

Yeah, that guy with 750hp and roadrace slicks was a little (it's a 2.52mile roadcourse) faster than my 140hp and street tyres...

His car: $75-100k+ at his guess. Mine: $7k.

All of that bought him only 5sec on me, and all of that is due to straight line HP. I can still turn harder than him.

Oh, and Tom's fingernail clippings have more expierence than your entire body pal )

Don't hide behind opinions, you're in Factville here, and you've got to be prepared to backup your statements of fact with the real deal.

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

you know I am an a$$hole... But I will tell you this , there are a handful of people on this list , that when they talk ,I shut up and listen. You are NOT one of them. When you question them , or just generally be a dick towards them I take it upon myself to be an a$$hole towards the neanderthal likes of you.

People like Ben , Cal Kid , and a handful of others I associate with correct information and posts worth reading. These are the type of people who don't sit around and proclaim intelligence because they read it on the internet , these are the people out there doing it , gathering the info and sharing it with the rest of us. Not just little kids who like to pick fights and act like a big man at a computer.

Perhaps they have too much class to sink to your level of Troll-ness. I don't , Im an a$$hole remember? and your a douche bag , so why don't you shut your yap , listen to those who are wise and perhaps learn something instead of spreading your lack of knowledge like some cancerous disease on this forum.

JM

Johnny, I'm not trying to jump on the bandwagon (actually, lets bash mustang owners and not each other!) but out at competition, I was trying to be sociable with a steward who was a engineer for Ford SVT and said I'm glad that Ford is finally getting serious about taking turns and he proceeded to tell me why the Mustang SVT handles like a "bloated pig" (because of a heavy block, "aborted" rear suspension etc )

take that for what it's worth.

he did like the lightning though?

artherd: Now I've never run one against a Fiero, but I have heard that if you take a 67 fastback, and run it stock in the slalom against an 80's-90's 5.0,it will beat it by a few 10'ths of a second (new tires mind you, not 60's tires..) If you drill new holes for the front a-arms, and replace them with smaller, different geometry a-arms , you gain quite a bit of handling there. Also if you mount sway bars, and weld in subframe connectors, and upgrade the rear leaf springs, she starts to go pretty good (so I'm told, I have not done this yet, as you have seen the shell for my car.. She does have traction bars though.. So I personally have never done it, but I am told by quite a few that they handle excellently on a course with the mods..

ANd slammed, you didn't "sink" to my level.. You were always there, you just try to climb out a bit when you want ot get people on your side..
edited: I've actually never heard you "shutup and listen" until recently when a bunch of older wiser members told you you are not always right, and to shutup once and awhile.

[This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 06-03-2002).]

Hey man, the older 'stangs *are* pretty impressive little cars, don't get me wrong.

Infact, a very good friend of mine has one. (1967 coupe)

375hp/400lb-ft engine; Drilled a-arm holes, 600lb srpings, upgraded rears, new shocks at all 4 corners, traction bars, huge swaybars, a nifty (forget the name, rotating link?) live axle stabaliser, huge subframe connectors (amost a cadge) a 5-speed manual tranny, and *rack and pinion power steering* (The latter two I helped him fabricate and install.)

My wimpy stock fiero is faster between 3 and 6 seconds up a 1-mile *hillclimb* we use as a test and tune area. (and as you know, hillclimbs are where high hp cars shine.)

So, the only mustang to out-handle me, ever, in my stock Fiero, had a $30,000 engine...

PS: I think that's an 'Evil' (not an ego) as in Doctor, in Slammed's sig. You'll find he's a very helpful and knowledgeable fellow, has one of the best handling early cars in the world, and knows stuff.

Best!
Ben.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: artherd: Now I've never run one against a Fiero, but I have heard that if you take a 67 fastback, and run it stock in the slalom against an 80's-90's 5.0,it will beat it by a few 10'ths of a second (new tires mind you, not 60's tires..) If you drill new holes for the front a-arms, and replace them with smaller, different geometry a-arms , you gain quite a bit of handling there. Also if you mount sway bars, and weld in subframe connectors, and upgrade the rear leaf springs, she starts to go pretty good (so I'm told, I have not done this yet, as you have seen the shell for my car.. She does have traction bars though.. So I personally have never done it, but I am told by quite a few that they handle excellently on a course with the mods.. ANd slammed, you didn't "sink" to my level.. You were always there, you just try to climb out a bit when you want ot get people on your side.. edited: I've actually never heard you "shutup and listen" until recently when a bunch of older wiser members told you you are not always right, and to shutup once and awhile. [This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 06-03-2002).]

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: artherd: Now I've never run one against a Fiero, but I have heard... If you... ...Also if you... ...and... she starts to go pretty good (so I'm told, I have not done this yet...) So I personally have never done it, but I am told by... [This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 06-03-2002).]

If, could, might. And if the bear hadn't stopped to **** in the woods...

johnnyk, I've never had a problem with you in the past, and I guess I still don't. But read your response and listen to how ridiculous that sounds.

No one would ever suggest a Fiero is the ultimate car, but you ARE on a Fiero board, so expect a little defense from the peanut gallery.

Now let's all go back to being cheapskates and having fun, shall we?

Hartz

hartz: Well obviously I haven't.. Have you seen the state of my car? But I know of people who have. I can only guy go should and could and will at this moment.. GIve me time..

quote Are Fiero Fans Cheapskates???

most but not all.

What can I say, Johnny, you stuck your foot deep in your throat on that one. You're on your own, pal.

BTW, CA Kid, was the dash or windshield out of your car when CS signed it? I know I can't sign my name upside down... Not doubting, just curious.

lol, just PM-ed Tom asking the same question Always wondered.

I'm guessing it had to be a spare gauge pod that he either had out of the car, or in the trunk, etc. (maybe one he was painting? His are black toped, tan in the middle ala Ferrari dashes.)

Best!
Ben

quote Originally posted by stimpy: What can I say, Johnny, you stuck your foot deep in your throat on that one. You're on your own, pal. BTW, CA Kid, was the dash or windshield out of your car when CS signed it? I know I can't sign my name upside down... Not doubting, just curious.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Wait, who was here basically from the beginning? Oh, that was also me!

I've been here 9 months longer than you and I wasn't even here at the beginning. So drop the stupid crap.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: I'm not trying to pull "seniority" crap.

That first quote sure sounds like you are attempting to establish that you have a superior knowledge of Fiero based on nothing more than your longevity here.

And used to work as a mechanic? I seem to recall you couldn't even get a differential cover off. That must explain the "used to work as" part.

quote Originally posted by stimpy: What can I say, Johnny, you stuck your foot deep in your throat on that one. You're on your own, pal. BTW, CA Kid, was the dash or windshield out of your car when CS signed it? I know I can't sign my name upside down... Not doubting, just curious.

Yep they pulled the windshield so Shelby could sign it. hehehe Really though, there are only six screws on the top to remove and front 3 are stripped, so remove 3 screws and closure panel slides up and out easy. I get asked that a lot!!!

Note: C5Corvette (original owner) had already painted that part low luster black because he was annoyed by reflections in the windshield off that part when racing the car on the track, Die Hard Porsche Racer!

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 06-03-2002).]

BN: Just felt like piping up with your opinions eh? I was just stating that I thought Cal Kid was a kid (why would I think that?) with no knowledge whatsoever.. I guess I was wrong.. Sue me.. He's almost god like I guess... As for the differential cover, I tried, the nut was totally round and rusty, didn't feel like welding a nut to it.. Lazy, not incompetent.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: BN: Just felt like piping up with your opinions eh? I was just stating that I thought Cal Kid was a kid (why would I think that?) with no knowledge whatsoever.. I guess I was wrong.. Sue me.. He's almost god like I guess... As for the differential cover, I tried, the nut was totally round and rusty, didn't feel like welding a nut to it.. Lazy, not incompetent.

Criminy, have you ever even followed any of California Kids posts? If I recall correctly, seems he's said something about serving in the armed forces back during the Vietnam war era. Doesn't sound like a kid to me. Guess you just made a really bad ASSumption. Not a good way to gain credibility....

Man, there sure is a lot of eliteism showing up here. Guess next time some of you answer one of my stupid questions in tech, I'll know what you're 'really' thinking of the poor boy out in West Texas. But that's ok, I won't be thinking of some you the same way anymore either I guess. I 'thought' this was a place for ALL Fiero enthusiasts, anyone who appreciated the car for it's qualities & styling or just really enjoyed driving one. Guess if we aren't going to shows or racing on weekends we aren't really worthy are we? I was so glad not to see any of this snobbery at the roundup in San Antonio.
& God help us if any of us happen to like another make or model of car. Why we're just trash & should be tied up & horse whipped huh?
Johnny, I've seen the pics of your Mustang. When you bring something in that shape back from past the grave, you'll have accomplished something to be proud of. I know of a 50's Packard straight 8 that I can have (in my Father's barn )& have considered trying to do something with, but if I do , it will be a cold day in hel* when I make mention of it here. Guess Jane & I'll just go outside now & apologize to our '84 that I bought it instead of one of the Royalty here.

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Music playing in the background "What I Said" Metallica!!!

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: People racing for ford/shelby seemed to like them and do well..

uuummm yea...that's great... and my bet is their was more then 2 grand in upgrades to the suspension of the cars they were racing. I stand by what I said...

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Well, here's my $.02 (better late than never, I guess)--

Yes, a lot of Fiero enthusiasts are cheapskates. Either by choice or necessity. The beauty of the Fiero is it's so cheap. Where else can you get a car that can do what it can do, and has the potential that it has for the same amount of money? You won't find one.

Ben, to me, represents part of the "Extreme Fiero" group. Ben, Archie, Cal. Kid, and others who've taken a no holds barred approach to modifying their Fieros for better performance. Does that make them rich elitists?

Consider this. I bought a 99 Grand Am as my daily driver (used) for $14,000. While I have a decent job, I don't think anyone would consider me rich. If I'd taken that same $14,000, I could have paid for my 88 Formula, and still had $11,600 to put into mods.

How much is a new Civic? How much of a Fiero can you build for the same amount of money?

I consider the people cheapskates who want to do a V8 conversion for $500. I don't have a problem with people not having lots of money to blow on their car. They do what they can when they can. That's cool. But the people who are working at McDonald's (or unemployed) and are bitching because a V8 conversion costs $4000 are cheapskates. Not because of their income, but because they want Champagne at beer prices.

I'd love to do an 88 GT Northstar convertible or F355 Sypder conversion, but it's not in my budget. Do I complain about the costs of those conversions? No. I just can't afford them. It's the cheapskate who wants to put a N* in his car for under $500 and expects it to be like a new car.

OK, I'm a Cheapskate! Just ask Archie, I only bought his economy kit.
I don't road race so I won't say nothing about it, I go straight forward and turn slow. I enjoy my little car and its a kick ass little sleeper and I have under 8000.00 in it including the cost of the car. There are alot nicer ones out there and probably alot faster ones but I DID IT MYSELF and I got help from this board. I think you guys should just lighten up and enjoy motorsports.
I'm in my 40's and getting to old (I think anyways) to pick on other people's rides or beliefs. Heck, I'm trying to make my car go fast enough to suck the air out of the passenager compartment on take off... Not there yet as you can tell Lighten up guys and take options for what they are worth. Mine's worth .02 cents and that wont buy you anything.

Well around here champagne IS the price of beer.. (Ok, not from champagne)..

Yes and no, typically anyone who can afford a mint Fiero, won't find them feasable, and those who do, can't afford them. Personally I love the idea of having the freedom to work on project after project till I get the car where I want it, it sounds like the cars are where you want them, I think that is part of the attraction to those of us willing to work on them. As for the collectability of the car the demand will increase over the next few years, as long as 16-20 are buying them and driving the piss out of them there will be fewer and fewer, might take a while long but anyone babying their fiero can watch the value increase as the years pass, just look at a lot of the 88's

thread close time?

Let this thread die.

Enough is enough guys. You all have your differences in opinion, leave it at that.

quote Originally posted by FieroGT87: Let this thread die. Enough is enough guys. You all have your differences in opinion, leave it at that.

Differences in opinion? I don't have a difference of opinion! Prove to me that I do, because I say I don't! Oh, and don't tell me what to do...

j/k

Bryce
88 GT

To the trash with this one...