quote Originally posted by White88cpe: Nights_Web, I am very sorry that I am a sorry loser who doesn't have a job(I can speak english) and can't afford to keep up my fiero like it deserves. I'm a bad American and a bad person all around arn't I? Well I guess I'll just kill myself now since I know this. Bye!

White88cpe,
I was quoting someone who had said this about those who dont spend a fortune on there cars. I am all for spending whatever you chose to spend. PLEASE read my qoute before you flame me next time.

quote Originally posted by nights_web: White88cpe, I was quoting someone who had said this about those who dont spend a fortune on there cars. I am all for spending whatever you chose to spend. PLEASE read my qoute before you flame me next time.

I do apoliggize for that

okie now that post is pointed towards atherd not everyone has the money to doa N*

Hey, guys, I didn't mean to insult anyone or imply my car is the best thing going. It's just that I have had so many people tell me they wanted to buy the car, but none of them took the final step. Too, bad, but the buyer got a pretty good car. The only reason I went with a rear wheel drive 3800 was beecasue the valve covers and plenum and a bunch of stuff were metal and could be chrome plated. And I was looking for a way to compete on an even plane with Ed William's "Taz" at Daytona. I only sorta kinda managed to do that because I won "People's Choice" - which was a popular vote "Best of Show" award. Neither Ed nor myselsf wanted a popular vote. If it had been a judged competition, I think I would have come in second to Ed. The man just has too much time on his hands to clean his car. His show preparation is THE standard. But I did like and enjoy the results and even won a "Best Engine" award at a pretty good all Pontiac show. I am proud of that award in particular. So my apologies if I insulted anyone - it was not intentional. I'm cheap, too. After all, you can't have this much fun with Vettes, Mustangs, etc, and have near as much pocket money left over. And the people I have met in the Fiero events from teenagers to us old farts have been just super people. Hope to see you all at some Fiero event this year. At least I finally posted something on this Forum that got more than a couple of responses!!!

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Tom Corey
87 Green TTop GT 5Spd V8
88 Yellow TTop GT Stock

quote Originally posted by nights_web: OK I liked it alot not LICKED it alot

why not lick it? it might be a good pasttime since most of us are losers anyways

PS.. reminded me of that saturn commercial where the guy was admiring the saturn when the salesguy was walking up with a couple to look at it, he leaned down and licked it

Wow, guess I steped on some toes.

**** like this makes me want to stop participating in PFF alltogether. It's just silly.

I ought to pretend to actually be wealthy, that should get a good rise out of this forum <sigh>.

Anyone else working part time at McDonalds want to chime in, tell me what an ******* snob I am?

You're answering the question in the subject nicely.

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

this is getting way out of hand...

quote Originally posted by artherd: You're answering the question in the subject nicely. Best! Ben.

hmm... not really, this thread showed the true attitude of some on this forum, it also showed that most of us have LIVES & other priorities then just a N* conversion or dropping 10 k into a car if was ever in a wreck would only get about 1/5 of it back *(book value)..

I know I have a lot of other things more important in my life then my fiero. I am sorry I am not a deserving owner of a fiero because I dont worship the car.

I perfer to drive it.

PROUD OWNER OF A 84 2M4!!!!

Artherd, you crack me up!

Maybe that's because over the 3 years I've had mine, I think I've paid the entry fee

well, the way i look at it. it's a toy. i can walk into the shop and get in the Fiero, the tractor, ride one of 3 four wheelers or 2 jet skis or ride the Harley. no BS.

i wanted my toy faster so i called Archie.

some people get off on keeping everything "stock". that's cool too.

if it wasn't a Fiero, it would've been any car that still needed to be faster. mods are mods. engine swaps are engine swaps no matter what car it is. just don't expect to get your money back, or even come close. i know when ( if ) the time comes to sell my V8 Targa, it's a tough sell. if I break even on receipts alone it would be a miracle, but who's counting. putting a V8 in a Fiero is more of a novelty for ooohs and ahhhs and some pretty good seat time at the track than an investment.

ask yourself this...if you are scared to drive something, are you really enjoying it ? i bought a shirt once that was $125. i hate buying clothes, but after MONTHS i made myself buy this shirt. i've worn it 5 times in 5 years because i'm scared to get it out of the closet.

i'm not enjoying my shirt, but it is still in excellent condition.

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: For example, the car Archie put out there that belonged to one of our Florida Fiero people that passed away is a terrific bargain at $11,500. I doubt that it is sold yet.

I hope you stick around in our hobby and don't let 'em get to you. I'm into Fieros because I love them as much as anyone. If money was the only reason to do something then I'd be running a Dairy Queen down on the corner.

BTW, Don Burns' car sold about 10 days after it was posted in the Mall & on my web site. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/008552.html

Hang in there buddy.

Archie

quote Originally posted by 80's BOY: "...if it wasn't a Fiero, it would've been any car that still needed to be faster. mods are mods. engine swaps are engine swaps no matter what car it is. ..."

Well said, It doesn't make any difference what car it is, there are shows cars and junkers in every make and model just about.

I personally like the Fiero over the majority of other cars because it's unique. You can, if you want too, do more with this car than any other car on the market today.

[This message has been edited by FieroGT87 (edited 05-31-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: Hey, guys, I didn't mean to insult anyone or imply my car is the best thing going. It's just that I have had so many people tell me they wanted to buy the car, but none of them took the final step. Too, bad, but the buyer got a pretty good car. The only reason I went with a rear wheel drive 3800 was beecasue the valve covers and plenum and a bunch of stuff were metal and could be chrome plated. And I was looking for a way to compete on an even plane with Ed William's "Taz" at Daytona. I only sorta kinda managed to do that because I won "People's Choice" - which was a popular vote "Best of Show" award. Neither Ed nor myselsf wanted a popular vote. If it had been a judged competition, I think I would have come in second to Ed. The man just has too much time on his hands to clean his car. His show preparation is THE standard. But I did like and enjoy the results and even won a "Best Engine" award at a pretty good all Pontiac show. I am proud of that award in particular. So my apologies if I insulted anyone - it was not intentional. I'm cheap, too. After all, you can't have this much fun with Vettes, Mustangs, etc, and have near as much pocket money left over. And the people I have met in the Fiero events from teenagers to us old farts have been just super people. Hope to see you all at some Fiero event this year. At least I finally posted something on this Forum that got more than a couple of responses!!!

Tom, thanks very much for this reply... I know you were frustrated in your original post, but I'm glad you were able to close the deal. I'm happy for you...

Fiero ownership is most definitely a labor of love, and usually there's little return on the investment other than pure joy at driving the car. But the coolest thing is that also in Fiero ownership, there's room for all levels of interst.

Also, nights_web, welcome to the Forum. This is *THE* place to be for Fiero owners; I'm glad you found us. There's definitely room for everbody here.. don't let a few negative comments send you looking elsewhere. There *IS* no 'elsewhere' - this is THE PLACE to be.

quote Originally posted by 80's BOY: putting a V8 in a Fiero is more of a novelty for ooohs and ahhhs i'm not enjoying my shirt, but it is still in excellent condition.

Right on, bruther! Unlike myself - that's all I'm gonna say about that.

quote Originally posted by artherd: I'm 21 years old, own my own buisness, and two Fieros. I'm glad they were cheap to pick up, it let me spend the money on other things. Like the silver car's chassis development and N*. Hell,. I didn't even count the price of the car it's so low ($2250 for silver) But sometimes I wish stock Fieros went for $15k+ just to keep the losers who don't even know english, let alone actually have a job, and maintain their car in the fashion it deserves away. Harsh, but true. Best! Ben.

I just can't resist a good troll

Ben - someday you'll be all grown up and discover that taking a big sh1t where you choose to hang out is a pretty stupid way to win friends for project advice and gain respect from the rest.

I used to think your contributions to this forum were great - this comment was a real surprise coming from you. Too bad you have such a low opinion of your "friends".

Funny, a post about religion can go for 10 pages without getting too ugly but call someone cheap while venting some steam and everyone gets upset.

There are those in every automotive niche or group that are willing and do spend the money to make their car/truck/SUV/motorcycle really awesome. There are also real cheapskates who whine and complain about wanting something really cool for their vehicle. Once presented with it, they complain that the price is too high. Of course, there are also an infinite number of variations in between. The point is, this is no surprise to me and it is absolutely NOT unique to the Fiero community. Go to the S10 community. Many people on various websites whined & complained for a long time for a supercharger system for their trucks that would produce some serious "bolt-on" power. Once the system arrived, a few did purchase with tremendous results. Most want info but can't afford it. Tire kickers, one person called them.

I personally made the mistake of selling my 87 GT while I was dumping truckloads of money into another project vehicle. I have spent over 4 years and just over $30,000 on a vehicle that I know is worth a fraction of my investment. Know what? Doesn't matter to me. Doesn't matter to me that project Fiero will be worth a fraction of what I have spent compared with some stupid book.

If I decided that I wanted to sell my project vehicle, I would get the same flack of it being "not worth that much". Patience, my friend. In time your creation will find a home.

Hopefully this thread will end soon. It started out with a valid question, point, & process of discussion, but I only see this getting uglier. Sorta reminds me of the whole "class envy" tactic. Pit the "rich" against the "poor". Divide & conquer.

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I shall be kicking myself for selling my 87 GT until I replace it.

I guess I'm an ass for spending LESS ON ALL MY FIEROS than my younger brother spent on his used 1998 Civic.

And a rich bastard at that.

This will be my last post to this thread, I had no idea I was one of those hated people who actually change their oil with redline. regularily.

It's funny, because on the Ferrari board you see multimillionaires who have an F40 for monday tuesday and wendsday, a 355 and 360 for thurs and fri, and drive an F50 for the weekend. And then you see people fixing up a jukned 308 as they can afford to, and they all get along great.

I'm sorry I have a job. and a car. It is now somehow your right to judge me.

Didn't I say I was going to stop posting in this thread? Why'd I type so much!?

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Don't let these guys get to you Ben!!! You've made some very significant contributions to this Forum by sharing your experiences, which is a lot more than I can say for many people on this Forum. You spoke it like you meant to speak it, and if it's too harsh for some people, well, you can't please all the people all the time.

If it wasn't for some of us taking costly adventures into improveing this car even further, there wouldn't be much interesting reading on this Forum.

Best,
Tom

Just my opinion, Flame away if you want, I don't care!

quote Originally posted by artherd: I'm sorry I have a job. and a car. It is now somehow your right to judge me.

Ummm.. you were the one acting like the judge to everyone else who dont (I didnt say couldnt afford, I said dont) put 10-15k into a 14-18 yr old car and dont keep it in the condition you "expect" therefore we are all losers..

I also have a good job, 2 cars, we both have dual citizenships (wifes from KS),we own our own house here in Prince Edward Island and will have it FULLY paid off in less then 6 months,we own a good bit of land up here, we are also putting a down payment this summer on a house in KS..
so i dont like being classified as a loser in your books because I have higher priorities then making my car compete with a ferrari..

I dont understand why you would try to judge other fellow fiero lovers, we all have the love of the cars in common, I dont see why you feel the need to classify us as "worthy to own a fiero or not due to our priorities in life".

This is also my last post on this thread since I also agree it is getting out of hand.

Ok, I'm calmed down a bit
Sorry for getting really pissed.

However, I still think some of the things you said were uncalled for. I'm all for making my Fiero better, but I don't see why I need to spend lotsa $$$$$ to be worthy enough to own one. And saying that they should cost at least $15K so the losers wouldn't be able to afford them?? Come on man. Oh yeah, about your last post. Don't try to make people feel sorry for you. You're trying to turn it around and make everyone else look like the bad guy, and poor defenseless you is being slammed by everyone else. I hate that sh*t . And don't say that's not what you meant, because it's pretty damn obvious.

Cal Kid, you're a nice guy and all, but how can you agree with something like that??

[This message has been edited by sqoach (edited 05-31-2002).]

I bought my first fiero when I was 18, and spent every dime (making 5.50 an hour) trying to make the car faster. I am now 27 and realized that the damn thing will never be a fast car, so I bought a mustang cobra and put a supercharger in it. My fiero still sits in the garage and goes out on the weekends, it's a nice car, but still a 3k car, no matter how much $$ I put into it.

quote Originally posted by sqoach: [B]Cal Kid, you're a nice guy and all, but how can you agree with something like that??

I kinda know where Ben was coming from with his post, it may not have been the best choice of words on this Forum, but that's history now. The point is that everyone has there own view on Fiero Owners and the modifications they make, don't make, and what's required for general maintainence.

Ben has a very high regard for the Fiero, for good reason. I don't want to get into a debate about this, but I understood what he was trying to express. We all have bad days where we say something just a little bit too harsh or not exactly what we wanted to convey, sometimes you just have to read between the lines, so to speak.

One thing you have to admit though, is there are some "cheap" people on this Forum!!! Hell, you got the whole spectrum here!!! Some people deserve to be slammed, as maybe it will be the message that gets across to them to take better care of their car!

Just my opinion, it's not a perfect world!

I think Ben has pride in the Fiero, doesn't Fiero mean PRIDE in Italian or something?
for all you bashing ben, read into what he was talking about, you ever see a person running a Fiero INTO the ground without a care in the world for it, how would this make you feel? as a fellow Fiero owner, I have come across several of these circumstances in my travels, one owner was a migrant mexican who worked at burger king and had a 84 2m4, when I asked him about it, he didn't speak english, his coworker had to translate, and when I asked him about it, the response was that it was a POS and when it died he was going to rid himself of it and get something else.
I believe ben said he wished these cars were 15k cars, so people like this man wouldn't toss em around like a well used penny.

on the flip side, without people like this, there would be very little or no Fieros in junkyards.

so, heres my response to the whole incident, this was stolen from another thread, but funny....

No, I'm not cheap. Just poor (married with children)! I still managed to do a 3.4 conversion and end up with a nice car. Mr. Mikes seat skins are next as soon as I can afford them.

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White '85 4cyl coupe
Black '86 v-6 SE
'81 CB900F Super Sport

Ok, I know I said I wasn't going to post, but via PM I can see that I haven't gotten my point across very well...

I think some may have read every other line or so, so I will be as clear as possible right now.

I did *NOT* in any way mean to say that those who don't spend $10k+ on their Fiero are in any way bad/etc. I merely was using that as a personal example of what the Fiero can be. (I should not interlace my own expierences when I generalize, in general )

I do stand behind what I said, but note the part where I also said that *I* am glad Fieros cosst what they do because I wouldn't have one either, yadda yadda...

Back On Holiday put it perfectly! It's those who just buy the cars in good shape, run the crap out of them, then junk 'em that get me. No respect/apprication for the car or it's uniqueness (it is unique) or it's rareity or it's engineering/design.

SKIDMARK; you and those like you are my heros. You guys take your cars, and maintain them well, and maybe even find a way to improve on them as time goes by (eg 3.4, mr. Mike's, A Rodney shifter, maybe a set of wheels when things are going well, Mobil 1, etc.)

You can have a lot of fun with these cars for a relatively little ammount of money (as far as ANY car goes, let alone a performance car.) All I'm saying is there's just NO excuse to abuse a good Fiero. (I suppose parts cars are the exception, they have to go for the benefit of the herd! )

That's it friends. Hope this makes sense. I don't hate or feel anyting about you if you're rich or poor or otherwise. I'd like to meet you first. You could be the richest guy on the planet, and if you were tortureing a Fiero it'd still make me cry!
Just remenber, hating someone because they're poor, OR rich, is the same thing. Moneyism (heh) works both ways. I'd like to see it end.

Best!
Ben

quote Originally posted by Back On Holiday: I think Ben has pride in the Fiero, doesn't Fiero mean PRIDE in Italian or something? for all you bashing ben, read into what he was talking about, you ever see a person running a Fiero INTO the ground without a care in the world for it, how would this make you feel? as a fellow Fiero owner, I have come across several of these circumstances in my travels, one owner was a migrant mexican who worked at burger king and had a 84 2m4, when I asked him about it, he didn't speak english, his coworker had to translate, and when I asked him about it, the response was that it was a POS and when it died he was going to rid himself of it and get something else. I believe ben said he wished these cars were 15k cars, so people like this man wouldn't toss em around like a well used penny.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

I hold nothing against ya Atherd.. You are respected by me, as is your opinion. Sorry bout the ummm.. flame on ya, shoulda told ya to put a suit on first

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Ray - rturner@fierosite.com - Fierosite.com - StangSearch.com
1988 Stage 2 Aero Coupe - 1985 Mustang 3.8 Convertable

Well, I do take care of my Fiero. I like it. I have done things to make it better, and will continue to. I agree that people that abuse their Fiero (just about any car for that matter) should not even own one. I guess that's what you were trying to get across. I think most members on this board do take care of their car. Which is good, of course.

I don't know if this makes me cheap or not, but I'm kinda using Arthurd and Will as gunea pigs to see if the N* manual trans swap is worthwhile.

I've tried to hold off posting on this topic as long as I could so I didn't say something stupid, just becasue I worded it wrong.

Tom, from what you've said about your 3.8 Fiero. It seems like it's a pretty nice show car. However, you seem to have made some decisions on the buildup of the car that only someone that was building a show car would have made. (As an example, I believe you said you chose the 3.8 because you could chrome it's valve covers. While a 3.8 isn't a bad engine, a fwd 3800 would have been more logical for those that aren't going that extra mile to win awards.)
Now this isn't saying that the car couldn't be an excellent daily driver, but the car is still going to appeal mainly to someone that's going to continue to use it as a show car, or garage queen. Being (I can only assume, since I haven't actually seen the car.) that it's a beautiful, well built car, makes it easy to covet. But usually, only those that are going to use it for it's intended purpose are going to want to step up and pay for it. This is going to narrow the market down substantially.

Of course, this is only a theory of mine. (and from the sound of it, a few others) I wonder what the person who bought your car will do with it.

[This message has been edited by Pontiaddict (edited 06-01-2002).]

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: artherd: That was a pretty stupid comment.. THe guy who can't even speak english. What the **** are you talking about? It takes 10 grand plus a Fiero to make it compete with a 308? Wow. I could drop 10 grand into a Tercel and make it compete with a 308. I could also drop 2 grand into a 5.0 and make it compete. I don't see what your getting at.

if you can drop 2 grand into a mustang and make it compete with a 308 I'll run my fiero off of a cliff. Maybe 2 grand under the hood but you better have some big plans for the suspension to compare to the handeling of the 308. In a straight line I love 5.0s but when you actually have to do something other then go in a straight.... like turn a corner your in trouble.

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https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/015513.html

Firstfiero: It doesn't cost much to make a Mustang handle you know. Pennies and it can corner with the best of them.

Ditto, I was able to go around a new Cobra on the track like it was standing still. That's with my stock 140hp. They may be fast in a straight line, but not when it curves.

Best!
Ben.

quote Originally posted by firstfiero: if you can drop 2 grand into a mustang and make it compete with a 308 I'll run my fiero off of a cliff. Maybe 2 grand under the hood but you better have some big plans for the suspension to compare to the handeling of the 308. In a straight line I love 5.0s but when you actually have to do something other then go in a straight.... like turn a corner your in trouble.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

I guess he didn't spend enough on it to make it worthwhile.. Or he couldn't speak english (you know how those immigrants shouldn't be allowed to drive american cars).. When I get my mustang rolling in a year or so, we'll see how your 140 hp goes up against a mustang with some new handling goodies on it.. (And the old shelby parts)..

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: I guess he didn't spend enough on it to make it worthwhile.. Or he couldn't speak english (you know how those immigrants shouldn't be allowed to drive american cars).. When I get my mustang rolling in a year or so, we'll see how your 140 hp goes up against a mustang with some new handling goodies on it.. (And the old shelby parts)..

Still won't cut it on a race course, even Steve McQueen did'nt like the race preped ones, claimed they were still too loose! They are only good for this!!!

And that's called "Showing Off"!

People racing for ford/shelby seemed to like them and do well..

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: People racing for ford/shelby seemed to like them and do well..

This is the dash on my Fiero, blew Shelby's mind!!! This should tell you something!


No offense, the Mustang hopped up is a nice car, but on a road course it's going to get it's clock cleaned. The only reason you don't see many (hardly any) Fiero's on road courses today, is because they are old, and racers like to go with the new stuff because it's easier to get hp parts.

"C5 Corvette even today wishes he hadn't sold me the car, it runs circles around his C5, that's his comment, not mine.

Now I think we should get back on topic or let this string die!

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 06-02-2002).]

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: People racing for ford/shelby seemed to like them and do well..

They're ALSO spending more than "pennies". Have you ever driven a Mustang? I can't believe you'd think they could handle like a 308 (or very well set up Fiero, for that matter) for less money than it takes to set up a Fiero.

Bryce
88 GT

Have you guys ever driven a Fiero? They do NOT handle like gods.. Definately worse than your average new car today like my civic or accord..

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Have you guys ever driven a Fiero? They do NOT handle like gods.. Definately worse than your average new car today like my civic or accord..

For someone with over 3,000 posts, you sure haven't learned much on this Forum. You must not know the first thing about rebuilding a Fiero Suspension with new or high performance improved parts, and setting it up correctly. Do you even own a Fiero or are you just a "Troll" with a lot of posts? I ask that question, because mainly all I see is you making posts about a Mustang body shell your looking for.

Buwahahahahah!!!!!! HASHAHAHAHHHA!!! OH GOD!!! HA! HYEHEHEHEHHEHE HAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

TEARS STREAMING FROM EYES...

I'm having a heart attack!!

That's the funniest thing I've read in a long, long, long time.

Here's a little story;

On our track day there was one competetive mustang, in another class. It was a 1966 coupe that had the top hacked off, and had been gutted and had a fully tubular frame installed.

Power was from a 13:1 compression, 100% aluminum, 351W block that had been stroked to 420. (andd redlined at *7300rpm* to boot)

He was running 275/40/17 slicks on custom made 17x10 wheels.

This was a very nice Vintage racecar, but not cheap to build. He confessed he had over $30k into the motor alone (dry sump and all.)

It bore about as much resemblence to a street mustang as, well... it bore no resemblence... I belive the bodywork was all that was origional. (the external resivor, coilover spring ajustable perch and damping shocks sure weren't )

I belive he was running 5-10sec faster than me that day.

Did I mention that his built 420cid was making 750bhp and was built out of a NASCAR parts book?

Best!
Ben.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Have you guys ever driven a Fiero? They do NOT handle like gods.. Definately worse than your average new car today like my civic or accord..

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"