OK, guys, I'm ready to go the Corvette or Mustang route. I'm really tired of "Fiero People" thinking I'm trying to rip them off! I have three Fieros and I have ~$15,000 in my 87 V-8 Archie, ~$18,000 in my 3800, and ~$13,000 in my soon to be 4.9 Cad V-8. I put the 3800 on the block for ~$8,000, and have had nothing but heartburn. People are afraid I'm trying to rip them off. This is a two time "Best Re-Engineered Fiero" Award Winner, a "People's Choice" Car, "Best Engine" winner at an all Pontiac Show, and winner of several first place awards, including at the FOCOA nationals. It has only 15,000 miles on a completely new drive train. I heard someone ask Archie what he wanted for the "Stinger" at Ed Parks swap meet. Archie said $32,000. Well worth the price if you have a clue what it took to put it together. My 3800 is a bargain at $8,000. What I want to know is what is the problem. Are all the Fiero people 16 years old and work at Publix??? Or are you all looking for a car to buy at 25% what it's worth? The Fiero hobby is only as good as we make it, and I for one am certainly starting to realize if I build one it's just for me because there is no one out there willing to buy what I build.
For example, the car Archie put out there that belonged to one of our Florida Fiero people that passed away is a terrific bargain at $11,500. I doubt that it is sold yet. So what's the scoop folks?? Should I **** -can my Fieros and go to Corvettes and/or Mustangs if I expect to get my money out of them - or what??Comments Please.

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Tom Corey
87 Green TTop GT 5Spd V8
88 White GT 3800 4T60E
88 Yellow TTop GT Stock

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: Are all the Fiero people 16 years old and work at Publix??? .

No, im 15 and unemployed

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Adam J. B.
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: GTFiero

I think a lot of people that do go the engine swap route, like to do it themselves. I personally would rather spend more money doing a swap, thye buying one that has already been done, because its a hobby. I think thats what it is to a lot of people. That is why they would rather ddo there own then buy one. Also, I dont think anyone should buy fieros to try and turn a profit. It very raarely happens. From what I have read anyhow. Plus, I would stick with fieros. They are so unique. Everyone has corvettes and stangs ( around here anyhow)
Good luck selling your cars though!
Kyle

Sorry, I really was not looking to insult you young guys that are 15-16 or whatever-I'm trying to find out what the market is for really good Fieros. My concern is that there may not be one!!

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: No, im 15 and unemployed

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Tom Corey
87 Green TTop GT 5Spd V8
88 White GT 3800 4T60E
88 Yellow TTop GT Stock

Hey Tom, it is a good deal for your car. But with the Cdn exchange it would be to much. If you were closer i would have considered it and sold off my 86gt to help pay for yours.

Very few cars can get as much money out of them than the builders/owners put into them. That's just how it goes...it's a hobby, and it's your toy. If a woman buys a $9000 wedding dress, is she going to be able to sell it for HALF of that? No, it just doesn't happen.

Oh, and yes, Fiero owners are cheap as hell in many cases. I'm willing to bet that 90% of the Fiero owners out there think that, for example, 600 dollars is a lot for some Held Motorsports coilovers....or that 2 grand for a full turbo kit is too much. Well, if you look at what stuff costs for other cars, we really don't have it that bad. We are cheap as hell because we only have to pay a couple grand for the car, so putting 6 grand into a car seems crazy. If we had a new Corvette that cost well over 30, then another 6 grand isn't so bad.

It's a hobby. If you were hoping to get some return on your investment, I'm sorry to inform you that you made a poor investment. If you enjoyed working on the car, spending the money on the car, and showing the car off...well, you got your money's worth, right?

Bryce
88 GT

First of all, I'm not trying to turn a profit. I was offering a 3800 at a heckuva discount price and the other two were not for sale. As a result, the 3800 is no longer for sale either. I was looking to sell it to someone who would enjoy it and take care of it-not to make a profit. I'm just really unhappy with the unprofessional (for lack of a better word) responses I've gotten!! I realize "everyone" has MUstangs and Corvettes - that's exaCTLY WHY i DON'T. bUT IF EVERYONE HAS THEM, WHY IS "EVERYONE" WILLING TO PAY SO MUCH FOR THEM???? wHY SO MUJCH HASSLE OVER A 'right-priced" Fiero? I know it's more fun to do it yourself, that's whay I offered it at half the price. The questions still stands Are Fiero people cheapskates or what??? Tell me!!!!! iNQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!!!

quote Originally posted by CanadianGT: I think a lot of people that do go the engine swap route, like to do it themselves. I personally would rather spend more money doing a swap, thye buying one that has already been done, because its a hobby. I think thats what it is to a lot of people. That is why they would rather ddo there own then buy one. Also, I dont think anyone should buy fieros to try and turn a profit. It very raarely happens. From what I have read anyhow. Plus, I would stick with fieros. They are so unique. Everyone has corvettes and stangs ( around here anyhow) Good luck selling your cars though! Kyle

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Tom Corey
87 Green TTop GT 5Spd V8
88 White GT 3800 4T60E
88 Yellow TTop GT Stock

Most of the mods I do are under $100 a pop. I have to save up for most everything. Am I cheap? Na just have house payments and I like to eat. I like working on my car and that’s all that counts. If I ever do want a V8 it would probably take me a year to put it together but I would never buy one already done. If I could afford it I would not appreciate it. I would also drive my investment back out of it.

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: I realize "everyone" has MUstangs and Corvettes - that's exaCTLY WHY i DON'T. bUT IF EVERYONE HAS THEM, WHY IS "EVERYONE" WILLING TO PAY SO MUCH FOR THEM????

I don't know what they're paying for them where you are, but the prices on older (1987 on up) Mustangs around here are pretty reasonable. The newer the car, the more money you're going to pay. Corvettes have always commanded a premium price, unless they've been beaten to death.

quote wHY SO MUJCH HASSLE OVER A 'right-priced" Fiero? I know it's more fun to do it yourself, that's whay I offered it at half the price. The questions still stands Are Fiero people cheapskates or what??? Tell me!!!!! iNQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!!!

There's your problem, Tom. I'm not being a wiseguy, it's just that YOUR definition of a "right priced Fiero" is different than anyone elses. First of all, the Fiero never WAS a popular car, like the Mustangs and Corvettes were. Most people think they're "firetraps". Nobody in this group is going to pay $8500 for a Fiero, no matter WHAT engine it has, or how much money you've stuck in it. So that cuts down your demographics drastically. Then you have the Fiero community. At least they understand what you've done, and can appreciate what you've spent to get there. However, 95% of THEM aren't going to spend $8500 on a Fiero either, unless it's one of Archie's cars like the GBCT, or the Stinger, both of which are show cars, or else an extremely low mileage car. On top of that, you have to understand that the majority of the people that own these cars...and enjoy them...ARE younger people, who don't have the disposable income for a vehicle such as yours. That's why you get the drool factor...they LOVE what you've done, but they're years from being able to afford it. You've built your cars the way YOU like them...and there's nothing wrong with that. But to borrow a real estate term, you've built yourself out of the market....in other words, you've spent more money on the car than most people, even the enthusiasts, are willing to pay....even when you try to sell it for half of what you put into it. Notice I said 95%...there ARE people out there that are able and willing to pay that much for a car. But if you're hoping for a quick sale, you're going to be disappointed. You have to wait for the right person to come along. They WILL, eventually...but you may have a long wait until they do. Tom, this isn't any criticism of you or your cars...I've seen pics, and they're beautiful, well-engineered vehicles. But for now, at least, the Fiero crowd is mostly a group of younger, less well-off people...that's what the draw of the Fiero is in the first place. They look sporty, and they're cheap....and NOT the group that is going to be able to buy your car.

Good luck...and don't get discouraged. You WILL sell it, eventually...it just may take longer than you figured on.

No, restoring muscle cars isn't exactly a money making business either you know.. Restoring a 60's mustang for example, your going to put almost more money into restoring one than if you bought it in good condition. I don't know about other cars, but same with Camaros and Firebirds... Cars are not a money making thing. Look at my ol' 85 Fiero.. bought it for $1100, put $3000 into it to make it safety, and then i could (BARELY!!) get $500 canadian for it. It's a Fiero, people don't want them, plain and simple.

market just is not there, plus it is the economy, all most all prices float with the general economy excp for current HOT items.

with 300,000 plus Fieros made they arenot rare and we can find deals cheap with a little effort plus you have a hotrodded swap car sure your price is less than your cost
BUT no regular market demand exists, plus too many think they can do it themselfs for less, as in buy a blowen motored car for a $100 and get a 3800 out of a wreak for cheap and just bolt them in and go.
only after they get done and add up the real costs do they learn the sad truth

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Question wonder and be wierd

Reading this post I think everyone is missing Corey's point.

In a nutshell, "Yes" a lot of the newer Fiero people appear to be cheap. Not all of them but a lot of them appear to be. You look at the people out there today and they want a mint 88 GT loaded with t-tops and only have $1000 for the car. Then they end up posting, "Gee, if I had the money I'd buy it from you." It's the same story whenever a Fiero get's posted in the Mall section for sale.

I am fed up with this in the Fiero world myself. But it exists and it's something we all have to live with.

It's just like when that guy from Florida was selling new, in the box, OEM Indy stuff. Most everyone that read his post and replied to it thought he was off his rocker. But, if you noticed he sold the whole lot and his Indy. It was even to a single party. So there are those out there that understand why some things are priced the way they are.

I think if you market a car correctly you should be able to get what you want out of it. But you will always have those out there that think you are asking too much money. It even happens in the Corvette and Mustang markets. It's not localized in the Fiero arena.

To give you an example. People think that $300 is too much money to spend on the IMSA rockers but if they were sold at $250 they'd be more than happy to spend the money. In my opinion that's being cheap. If it's something you want you can always buy it for the asking price. You will always make more money but items that you want won't always be available.

On another note, when it's all said and done I will probably have close to $20 grand into my IMSA when it's complete. What will it be worth to me? That's hard to say. What will someone else be willing to pay for it? Only time will tell. I know what kind of offers I have had for the car in its current condition but it's something I have always wanted and am not willing to part with. At this time anyway

I have stated my opinion and take it for what it's worth but in all honesty I think there are too many out there that are cheap.

Flame away!

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AIM - SWags2933

84 Fiero SE (88 Pontiac Ad car motor and tranny being installed, T-tops, Fastback, Formula bumpers and Held Suspension being added)
84 Fiero IMSA Widebody (Centerlines, 3800SC & T-tops being added)
88 Formula (basically stock)

Obviously, you haven't seen the Barret-Jackson Auctions or don't watch "Dream Car Garage". You folks are certainly bringing out what I was afraid of-most fiero owners are in it for a cheap ride. I mean no insults, but it appears to be a hard fact. Too bad, the car is worth a lot more respect than that! I've owned Corvettes and Mustangs both through the years and actually prefer the Fiero for numerous reasons. The main reason I do engine swaps is because Pontiac quit too soon. I'm looking for the ultimate Fiero. And I'm reasomnably sure the V-8 Fiero is it!

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: No, restoring muscle cars isn't exactly a money making business either you know.. Restoring a 60's mustang for example, your going to put almost more money into restoring one than if you bought it in good condition. I don't know about other cars, but same with Camaros and Firebirds... Cars are not a money making thing. Look at my ol' 85 Fiero.. bought it for $1100, put $3000 into it to make it safety, and then i could (BARELY!!) get $500 canadian for it. It's a Fiero, people don't want them, plain and simple.

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Tom Corey
87 Green TTop GT 5Spd V8
88 White GT 3800 4T60E
88 Yellow TTop GT Stock

I was one of a few who inquired about the car. I asked the standard stupid questions....if you don't ask then you could be in for a surprise when you go to pick it up, right?

At any rate.....to answer your question, yes. Yes, Fiero people are cheap. I tried selling a 282.2 original mile silver '88 Formula last year for what I paid for it.....$10,000. I felt it was a bargain, I mean, a new Formula in 1988 cost $10,999 + the options! At $10,000 in current money that Formula was almost half price! I did manage to sell it to a very appreciative person, but it took me several months and several attempts. People were still trying to nickel and dime me down on the price......and this was on a brand new Fiero!

I can't offer you any solace......except that it will eventually sell. You probably need to expand your selling horizons though. By that I mean advertise somewhere besides this forum (where the vast majority of "el cheapos" reside.....no offense ). Put it up on eBay and see what happens or advertise it in traderonline.com......you never know what or who will see it and want it (and actually has the $$ to buy it).

I would still like to own it myself, but I have been unable to sell my GT and since I went back to college money has been entirely too tight. $8000 is a heckuva good deal, but I just don't have that kind of scratch right now and I'd say that's commonplace with most people (not just Fiero people).

Good luck and don't despair.....someone will come along that just has to have a car like yours.

Tom,

I agree with a lot that has been said here. The demographics of people who have the means and the desire to purchase high-end Fieros is exremely limited. Probably more than half of the people in the forum have purchased the low-end Fieros and fixed them up.
Only a handful have purchased the high-end ones already modded out with engine swaps and so on.

There are so many combinations of engines, transmissions, and bodies that even when the enthusiast with the cash comes along, you may not have what he wants. So be patient. If you are serious about selling your Fieros ignore those who think that $8500 is too much for a high-end Fiero.

Otherwise, just continue to enjoy the hobby and keep creating those high-end Fieros, I may want to buy one someday.

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1988 Coupe
Fiero - It's like an Actual Miniature Car

Am I cheap? hell yes. I'd rather spend $20 grand in a car and do the work myself than pay someone 8grand for a car thats already done.

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Ray - rturner@fierosite.com - Fierosite.com - StangSearch.com
1988 Stage 2 Aero Coupe - 1985 Mustang 3.8 Convertable

It is not that Fiero people are cheap. It is that custom Fieros have low resale values. This does not only apply to Fieros but to most custom vehicles. Take the purple people eater for instance. Rich Warber hand built this ground breaking Fiero. It was the first Chop Top, it has a 400 hp 350 TPi engine with $3500 in chrome. He spent hundreds of hours and tens of thousands on this car. It is as unique as a Fiero can get. What did it sell for? $13,000. When you customize a car you personalize it and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes you sell the car, sometimes you don't. I have bought many Fieros, I buy them because I like to drive them, I like the way they look and the way they are built but also because it is one of the few modern cars that one can modify in a great number of ways. When I add a custom touch to one of my cars I do it for myself and I do it knowing that I may not be a able to add any money to the value of the car if I re sell it. I do it for my own satisfaction. When Joel Sold the great Blue Chop Top, he took a loss as did Rich Warber’s widow and as many others have done before. However they gained the satisfaction of owning their unique cars. Now that is where the pay off really is; not in what it is worth to someone else once you move on. Fiero people are not cheap, and I know that there are many people that would love to own your car; they just can not afford it, even if it is a great deal.

Cars are not investments and everybody spends more on their cars then what they will get for them. Muscle cars that people sell for $35,000 or more spent $35,000 or more on the cars. Most likely $45,000 but if they restored the cars 5 years ago at $45,000 and the car has five years of wear on it. They will not see anything near $45,000. the same goes for Fieros as does Muscle cars there is no difference. Because your car is modified it will be harder to sell then if if was stock. People have to love what you have done to the car and it is harder to find that person.

Tom, This sounds like a re-run of the Ed Parks/4.9 Cadero thread last week... I agree that the Fiero market doesn't expect to pay "typical market prices" (for performace) and therefore the Fiero prices are depressed. It sounds like collectively we need to create/find another market of auto enthusiast. If you put your car thru road & track, how would the #s stack up? HP/liter, HP/weight, acceleration, top speed, skid pad, slalom etc. If you look at those collective numbers and compared a weighted average with the likes of other expensive cars, I'm sure your 3.8 Fiero would be a real bargain.

You are totally wrong. Check out the
Barret-Jackson Auction next time. Cars can be and are investments. Many do much better than the stock market. Daily drivers are not investments, I agree, but hot rods are, muscle cars are, antiques are, sports cars are, and Fieros can be or will be - mark my words! I'm not so sure I like the general consensus attitude I'm hearing from you guys! Do you really like Fieros or are you into them because they are cheap and look cool?? I'm into them because I relly like the car.

quote Originally posted by Proud88GT: Cars are not investments and everybody spends more on their cars then what they will get for them. Muscle cars that people sell for $35,000 or more spent $35,000 or more on the cars. Most likely $45,000 but if they restored the cars 5 years ago at $45,000 and the car has five years of wear on it. They will not see anything near $45,000. the same goes for Fieros as does Muscle cars there is no difference. Because your car is modified it will be harder to sell then if if was stock. People have to love what you have done to the car and it is harder to find that person.

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Tom Corey
87 Green TTop GT 5Spd V8
88 White GT 3800 4T60E
88 Yellow TTop GT Stock

quote Originally posted by Proud88GT: Cars are not investments and everybody spends more on their cars then what they will get for them. Muscle cars that people sell for $35,000 or more spent $35,000 or more on the cars. Most likely $45,000 but if they restored the cars 5 years ago at $45,000 and the car has five years of wear on it. They will not see anything near $45,000. the same goes for Fieros as does Muscle cars there is no difference. Because your car is modified it will be harder to sell then if if was stock. People have to love what you have done to the car and it is harder to find that person.

huh? There a various people and companys that restore old cars and make a living off it. DXR DAD for example.

Yeah, on those auctions, they sell RARE cars.. They sell original CObras, stuff like that. Your not going to see your run of the mill 1969 mustang go for $50000!... Fiero's aren't rare.

i think it's just a wierd thing about being on this forum. probaly the people who would most appreciate the work put into it would also be amoung those least interested in buying it just 'cause they might do it themselves. i don't quite fall into that category but i do have fieros already in the project stage and for me i'd be thinking 8k would finish up my chopper or (because i'm scatterbrained) be seed money for a parallel car project.

that's another thing. i'm thinking i'll have about 15k in the chopper project and my '87 coupe maybe 6-8k so i can see you wanting that kind of money, but i can't drop that kind of cash in one lump sum. did you when you were building it?

probaly should have eraced this. i don't think i hit it like i wanted to. it made more sence in my head. sorry if i muddled things.

the auctions just got into hotrods very resently and are not into fieros YET someday maybe but not today
number matching is a very big deal in collecter cars a buddy had a 67z28 cherry but original blown motor so it had a exact replacement so no match less than 1/2 price of matcher
no 80's cars are worth real $$$$$$ YET wait!!

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Question wonder and be wierd

Theres allot of people here that are very generous in selling things. I've got such good deals on here I sometimes feel bad. I normally send a few extra bucks for things I do buy though. Also when I parted out my 84 I tried to give everyone a good deal. Some of the things I sold off it weren’t worth my time and cost more for me after shipping them out. But I thought it was the right thing to do.

I jsut wanted to add...
One of the best people who sells things here is MrFiero. He has allways given me great deals and is a great guy. I've probably bought more from him then anyone else.

Now that I sold the GBCT......anyone want my 88GT?? Close to $40k invested in it over its life. Taking serious offers over $20k!

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Home Page w/ Vids : http://ucsub.colorado.edu/%7Epattons/Home15.html

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: You are totally wrong. Check out the Barret-Jackson Auction next time. Cars can be and are investments. Many do much better than the stock market. Daily drivers are not investments, I agree, but hot rods are, muscle cars are, antiques are, sports cars are, and Fieros can be or will be - mark my words! I'm not so sure I like the general consensus attitude I'm hearing from you guys! Do you really like Fieros or are you into them because they are cheap and look cool?? I'm into them because I relly like the car.

Do you get Hemmings Motor News? I do. I never buy anything, but I like to look. Ever look in the Fiero section? Maybe 4 or 5 listed. One has been in there forever for $14,000. Silver 88 GT with T-tops, I think. The Fiero may never achieve collector-car status, it's always had a reputation as a burning, unsafe, GM failure (No flames, I know it's not true.) It's not a Dusenburg, or a gull-wing Mercedes. Let's be real - it's a Citation/Chevette. It's not a muscle car, it's not a sports car, it's a "sporty" commuter that died just as it was showing some promise (88). Why? LACK OF SALES. Nobody wanted it. Few do today. That makes them cheap - good for buyers, bad for sellers.

I think most of us are into these cars for the reason you skillfully skirted around - they ARE a fun, cheap ride out of the box. There's lots of room for customization - limited only by your funds and imagination.

It's obvious that you love your cars - we love ours too. But, truthfully, you're beginning to sound like a bit of a snob if you're upset that nobody realizes the "value" of your dream car. It is a beautiful car, don't misunderstand, but few people are willing or able to drop that much on what is essentially a trailer queen. Count your blessings that you can. I'd put it in Hemmings, or consign it to auction so the "collectors" can see it.

A car is only worth what the buyer wants to pay. My car is appraised/insured for $18,500, but I know the ONLY way I'd see a cheque in that amount is if it were totalled!

It's a World of Wheels winner as well as a multiple IASCA sound-off winner " TARGET=_blank>http://www.calgaryfieros.com/2002events.htm[/URL]

It doesn't matter, I built it for myself and it won't be for sale...

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-27-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: You are totally wrong. Check out the Barret-Jackson Auction next time. Cars can be and are investments. Many do much better than the stock market. Daily drivers are not investments, I agree, but hot rods are, muscle cars are, antiques are, sports cars are, and Fieros can be or will be - mark my words! I'm not so sure I like the general consensus attitude I'm hearing from you guys! Do you really like Fieros or are you into them because they are cheap and look cool?? I'm into them because I relly like the car.

Tom, I'm beginning to think you've been watching too much TV lately!

These cars are NOT something you'd see on a Barret-Jackson auction. Take the BEST Fiero ever produced, and stack it up against some of the exotic/rare/pristine cars on that auction....everybody there would laugh.

My grandfather used to say, "Something is only worth what one man will give and what the other man will take." It's a matter of opportunity cost. I can do it myself over 6 years and with about ten grand put into the car over that time, all while learning and doing it myself...OR I can take out a loan and have it for ten grand right now, but pay off that loan for a few years. Which is a better opportunity for me? Doing it myself of course, because as was said, the only people that appreciate how much work you've put into it are those that could do it themselves. I can do just about anything I want to my car, which is why I do just about everything on my own! If some 16 year old kid thinks building a car like that is easy and not worth 8 grand...let him find out the hard way.

Lastly, you asked, "Do you really like Fieros or are you into them because they are cheap and look cool??" Frankly, I'm offended. Sure I like the Fiero, that's why I bought it! Oh yeah, and I'm also into it because it's cheap. Yup, also like it because it looks cool. You act like a person can only like something for one reason. It's a package deal for me. If cost was no object, NONE of us would have Fieros, we'd all drive a Modena, NSX, Diablo, 911, or Viper.

I really think you're venting your anger innapropriately. You act as if not being able to drop 10 grand on a car is a crime. Excuse many of us for not being well off...or not burying ourselves in debt building a car. Personally, it will be a long time before I can even drop one grand into my car without calculating every detail of when and how I'm going to get the money.

Put it on ebay...where there are less people like us that are "into them because they are cheap and look cool" and more that "really like" the Fiero.

I just don't understand.....why sell it if you value it so much?

Bryce
88 GT

Maybe it just has to do with the current state of the economy. A lot of people just dont have the cash to throw around these days. If I had $8000 sure I'd buy the 3800, that is a great deal. Unfortunately I've got to much debt to pay off.

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Rick D

86GT
84COUP

http://home.attbi.com/~dslize

Tom,

I've been agonizing over your car for a few days now. I've been wanting a completed show Fiero for a while now since I'm in over my head on my other Fiero projects that are far from done and are keeping me so tied up when I have free time, I have no clue when I'll get around to doing my personal ultimate "show" Fiero. Having Ed Parks withdraw his 4.9 kit from the market was another blow to that project. However I didn't contact you because I didn't want to waste your time until I was sure that I could make a serious offer. But, since you've basically asked, here are the problems the typical Fiero owner (i.e. me) faces when looking at your car:

1.) the actual lump sum of 8 grand. When you are building a car, you can spread the cost over months, even years if needed. I was thinking about borrowing the cash off of my father (he's been saving up for a Vette, but I can talk him into delaying that) since I didn't feel like fighting with the banks over why I needed an $8,000 loan for a 14 year old car. Not to mention that I just bought a new Olds Intrigue last September, so I've already got one loan to pay off.

2.) Unfortunately, I have emissions laws where I live. Not knowing how the current exhaust is setup, I had concerns over passing the sniffer test in this state. Re-engineering/redoing the exhaust to pass inspection here would most likely cost a significant amount. I thought about maybe Chris West headers with a stock Fiero routing could be a way to go, but it looks like that may interfere with some of the wiring and where the fuse box and so on is mounted (it's hard to tell from the pics).

3.) I wish it was a sunroof car (I like sunroofs, but that's another thing that could be fixed).

4.) To complete the car, it needs some Mr. Mikes leather seats, and a set of side panel scoops to complete the way you have the air intake routed on the passenger side (more $$ to spend). Is the engine able to get adequate cool air the way it is now?

I don't know.....maybe I'll still float you an offer. I may be taking a trip to Tampa, Fla. over the next few weeks and could maybe swing by to see the car if things fall into place between now and then. I'm going to research with the DMV here to see if maybe I can get the car classified as either a collectable car or as a classic to see if I can somehow circumvent the emissions requirements here.

Ken S.

P.S. - I also wish it was a supercharged 3800.....still wondering why you went through all that trouble to do a regular 3800 (a rear wheel drive 3800 at that). Care to clue me in on your thinking there? If it was supercharged, I'd probably be booking my plane ticket now to come down there to pick it up.

[This message has been edited by kslish (edited 05-27-2002).]

I really don't think you would see much difference in the reaction if you were trying to sell an 84-88 Mustang you had $18k in for $8k. An 84-88 Corvette might be a little different because it's starting with a higher valued base. I think you'd still get in the same situation if you figured the percentages over book value invested and asking price.

Building a modified car is generally not a good investment. I've seen quite a few muscle cars that the asking price was half or less of the invested cost.

I think eventually Fiero's will become more valuable. I'm not sure they will ever be as widely recognized as the more popular cars though...

Tom,

You keep bringing up Barret-Jackson auction. I don't think there is or ever will be a Fiero qualified for that.

I think my general theme here is quitcherbitcin and advertise the car if you want to sell it.

Personally, I would really have to know a person well personally and know what they are capable of mechanically before I were to put down money on something they had modified. It may be the prettiest install around, but can also be the most unreliable POS in the same car. Not suggesting anything about your cars, but I am always leery about owner modifications.

I'm a college student, finishing up what I estimate has been about a $3K 2.8L rebuild. I don't even count the money I put in my cars. But if someone can't afford to fix/maintain a car, what are they doing with one, is my philosophy.

My dad is pretty big into Corvettes. He and I are signed up to do the cross-country Corvette thing next summer in his C5. From California to Nashville I think is the itinerary.

[This message has been edited by fiero56 (edited 05-28-2002).]

fiero56: I can't afford one either.. Thats why project Budget 'stang is the ultimate headache! But it can be done I tell yoU!!

Tom I agree with you 100%. I would say the majority of Fiero owners are cheap. I would say maybe 10 or so on here are actually willing to spend the dollars to get what they want, be it performance looks or a combo of both.

REASON:

1) The older Fiero owner. Has very little money to spend on his "hobby" car. Reason being he/she has a mortgage, SUV that cost $35k to haul around 2.5 kids and a dog to school when a $13k Cavalier would do, daily expenses, saving for kids college fund. Things of that nature. And for most older guys its a midlife crisis car as they just can't afford a Vette. So they find a 4 banger puke Fiero for $800 with a sh!tload of problems and then find it hard to justify putting more then $800 back into the car to get it running or looking like it should. So when they see another fiero for $8k, they say to themselves I got mine for $800 so there is no way this other Fiero should be worth $8k.

2) Young Fiero owners. They have the most expendable income of any age bracket. However they don't make jack squat working 20 hours a week at $5.50/hr. So for them it takes a long @ss time to save up money to invest in a car that their parents didn't want them to get in the first place because "you can't get parts for them anymore", or "they are fire prone and death traps". Plus with being a young kid you want to do other things with your money as well. Like hit the movies, spend it on your girlie/guy order pizza at 1 a.m. things of that nature. So they sit and dream of owning a car like yours but don't have the will to actually work and save for it.

3) MOST Fiero owners expect Vette performance from "paper clip and bubblegum" mods. Thinking a new filter or cool exhaust tips will make their cars a lot faster. And how Koni shocks are cool they just can't justify spending that much for shox when stock replacements are less then half that. I mean how much better could koni's be over stock equipment? And headers being $450 with a crossover pipe. I mean look at the import prices!! $450 for just one little header. Thats it!! I mean its not like its more materials and sh!t. Or a cat-back for a Fiero is too much at $400 from Borla. Or a turbo kit for $3500. Fiero owners say its too much. But that price is right in line with import turbo kit prices!!My god look at prices of the other stuff and see just how cheap the fiero stuff is. Its priced this low cause they know Fiero f@gs are cheapos(Again this isn't everyone here but most. If you are offended by this statement then you are one of these f@gs)

Also seeing a lot of "ricer mods to Fieros these days. Basically people deluded into thinking stickers and hype will make their Fiero faster. This isn't just limited to the young kids too as I have seen threads on here where some of the older folks are doing huge decals or many little ones or clear taillights or what not. A year ago this whole forum would have called that stuff rice. It is so mainstreem now everyone wants it. GAY!!! This ricer thing is a whole other thread however

Tom I hope you sell your car. Its a really beautifull car. I think its a good deal for all the hard work, engineering and blood, sweat, cussing that went into building it. It takes time to find a buyer when you are asking anything over $1500 for any Fiero on this forum Anyone trying to sell anything on this board for any type of profit seems to get bitched at by all the cheapo f@gs

I tried selling my alumminum block and heads and intake for $2k. Once people found out what I had payed for all this stuff they said I was asking too much and how I was trying to rip them off!! So I just kept it.

My advice, dont' worry about it. Keep it untill the person with the right amount of money comes along and dont' take a penny less then what you think it is worth.

And Kslish. WTF man. Who gives a sh!t why he used a RWD engine. It fu<king works and works good does it not? If so then dont' worry about it. And that whole emissions things is bologna excuse too man Lets see cat for $70 and put it on yourself for free. I heard stories about you from Daytona this year. You are a fu<king loser.

Once again Tom, good luck selling it.

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Formula 5 spd
All aluminum engine transplant in progress
Shaun41178@hotmail.com
**** FOREVER!
BalzOut Racing!

Don't hold anything back now Shawn!!!

I have to admit, if I was going to sell my car, I sure wouldn't put in on this Forum. I might let a couple know by "pm" confidentially, but that's it.

Really think it all has to do with being located in an area where there are a lot of hot rodders, who understand the true cost's of modifications, performance, etc, etc, real car people (who understand what the Fiero is capable of).

As far as the "nay sayers" stateing it's just a POS commuter car, they must be talking about a poorly maintained 4 Banger.

Values are going up for cars keep in really good condition. I can see that shortly down the road things won't be as cheap as there are currently. Every year, more and more of these cars are ending up in the junk yard because mostly kid's are beating the crap out of them, and don't have the money to fix them. The fewer there are, the more they are going to be worth, I'd like to see the trend continue.

Just my opinion

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http://www.cartsys.com/fiero/cal-engine.wav

I have bought and sold 4 low mileage fieros in the past 3 years.

88gt sunroof 470 miles
88gt t-tops 960 miles
88 yellow formula 33,000 miles
87gt sunroof 14,000 miles

I have learned from my Mopar days that the more stock something is the better it will hold it's value. 2 of the cars above I sold for profit and one I broke even on. I still own the t-top car. Even though I prefer stock cars I truely admire the cars that have been modified. The amount of time and work put into these is more than I can afford. Best of show almost always goes to the car with the most work put into it, thus your modified cars. Your car is by all means a great value. But you resale market is very limeted. Even at that great price it may take some time to find a buyer. I tend to stay away from modified cars, because I only have average mechanical abilities. If there is a problem, Its going to be big bucks for someone else to fix it for me (and thats providing if I can even find someone to work on it for me). As far as the forum goes, I made the mistake of listing one of my cars here and was trashed for what I was asking for it.

Good luck!

quote Originally posted by Shaun41178: And Kslish. WTF man. Who gives a sh!t why he used a RWD engine. It fu<king works and works good does it not? If so then dont' worry about it. And that whole emissions things is bologna excuse too man Lets see cat for $70 and put it on yourself for free. I heard stories about you from Daytona this year. You are a fu<king loser.

Holy cow, where the heck did this come from? Come on, you can't honestly believe that I'm the only one that is wondering why he went with the RWD engine. And I'm fully aware that he originally had a FWD 3800 Series II out of a '95 Bonneville in this car before going with the current engine. There has to be some reason behind the switch, and I'm just curious as to why...I'm not criticizing him for it.

Don't get me wrong, his car is worth every bit of his asking price, the guages alone in that car are worth over $700. I've never said that he is asking too much for the car.

As for Daytona, I don't know what you heard or hell, if we've even met, but I for one could care less what you think of me personally. I know who my friends are, everyone else is irrelevant.

P.S. - If it's a true dual exhaust, it would most likely take 2 cats

TOM: I agree with you. I own a extremly modified 1986 GT with a SC3800. Did the entire car myself. Nothing is really left stock. I bought the car because I liked the body style. Acually I even changed that a liitle bit. Let's face it, everything else on the car completly sucks. If you want to drive it like a sports car, you need to change just about everything, from the engine to the brakes,wheels,suspension,etc. Most fiero people i've met are cheap. And instead of saving up to buy something, they halfazz it. over and over. I personally would have no way of affording your car, but I wouldn't inquire about it or bash you on the price. I'm very anal about details, so I did the car myself. Anyone can pay $40,000 for a stock vette and probably wont know how to change the oil. I respect the work and TIME it takes to do what you've done. Mine's only been done for a year(still no problems) but I wouldn't think of selling it for under 10,11, maybe 12 grand. People always ask, "Why did you do that to a FIERO?" and I say "What else can you buy that will peform like this for $10,000?" NOTHING!! It will out run and out handle the majority of cars on the road. I know, I do it every day. Everyone who owns a POS fiero thinks they are my best buddy when I meet them. Fiero owners can be great guys, or cheap ones that own a 1984 2m4(no offense) in horrible shape with tons of miles, yet they are still dying to join a fiero club. I thought clubs were for show, or on the way to being show, cars. Not dreamers. By the way, mustang owners aren't much different, it's always the guy with the old 1987 4banger who swears he is dropping a 5.0 in next week for $50, BUT HE ALREADY PUT THE 5.0 EMBLEMS ON THE FENDERS! Or the people who swear they have a 2000 5.0GT even though they haven't used that motor since 1995. Just like you I thought I'd vent a little. Good luck with the car.