As someone whose other car is a '94 Hyundai Elantra with a 1.6L DOHC Mitsubishi engine, I think this 4g63 engine swap is fantastic. Those of you who've never driven a Mitsubishi powered car may not appreciate the performance of these engines. Sure, the version of this engine that I have in my Elantra is one of the lower powered ones, but I can tell ya that this little 1.6L engine would kick the stuffing out of a 2.5L Duke powered Fiero, with better gas mileage to boot.
So guys seriously - is there any questions you would ask of him that i did noit think of?
And who all here is part of the ferio club that kev is in? the one where you meet at the pointiac dealer in bloomington for every third monday of the month?
yeah that's the goal. my fiero almost was nto going to make it- i had some tranny probelms at the world of wheels (no reverse) and found that it was fluid. so yeah i'm coming on the 20th if all works well.
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11:02 PM
Silicoan86 Member
Posts: 1614 From: Savage, MN, USA Registered: May 2004
Was that your yellow gt at the World of Wheels show? Or you just drove yours there? You don't need a Fiero to come to the meet, in fact, if you do, you will most likely be the only one who did.
[This message has been edited by Silicoan86 (edited 02-06-2006).]
no mine is in primer thus the beating of my fiero 0 i was parked in the street... *shakes fist at fiero- then hugs it* in fact the one at the show i call bs it said 230 hp for a 3.8 if he counting the nos i sure don't and from my understanding you can't do that with a 2.8 i mean 230 hp.
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09:20 AM
Feb 10th, 2006
vballman Member
Posts: 454 From: New Durham, NH, USA Registered: Sep 2005
This is funny because I have a friend with a 99 GSX and we joked about this swap when i first got my fieros just for fun. it is cool to see someone actaully do it. I can get an engine, tranny and the harness for about $1000. I am considering doing this as well.
couple issues I have are the axcels and the rear deck lid. The axcels can be figured out, but how much change is needed for the deck lid? that is what I need to know.
------------------ Restoring an 85 GT auto Parts car 85 SE 5spd MAYBE? Could be: Restoring an 85 SE into an 85GT
Hey Vega - Kev told me that he's been talking to you a bunch lately! Hope to see you at one of the upcoming meetings (although you won't see many Fieros there until the weather thaws out). The next meeting is Monday Feb 20th.
Other people here who are part of MFF? Kev, Silicoan86, Racingman24, FieroSTS, FieroHoho, DrRodey, GTGeff (owner of the Stinger & Club President), Purple Reign, MOBILE, Oslo, etc... it's pretty big/active group
quote
Originally posted by vega:
no mine is in primer thus the beating of my fiero 0 i was parked in the street... *shakes fist at fiero- then hugs it* in fact the one at the show i call bs it said 230 hp for a 3.8 if he counting the nos i sure don't and from my understanding you can't do that with a 2.8 i mean 230 hp.
The Yellow car belongs to Mike Sellner from Farmington - he is definitely very optimistic (OK - it's just BS) about his HP ratings. His 2.8 was rebuilt with "normal" Fiero Store rebuild parts - nothing fancy. He's probably running more like 140hp. Oh yeah - and the NOS has never been hooked up (even though it's been "installed" in the car for probably about 4 years now)!
Why the 4g63 over the Gn motor? it breaths better and there is a much better aftermarket for this than not.
You're kidding right? Have you ever checked into the aftermarket for the GN? How about an all aluminum block from T/A specialties good for 2000 HP. (no joke) The design had top fuel input. How about steel cranks, rods, pistons, wicked flowing heads from Champion, whatever turbo you could stuff in the engine bay. There are guys making over 600 HP still with a factory block, crank, rods and pistons.
As a point of referance, my full weight GN is in the 10s with a 109 block, RJC block girdle, Steel mains, rolled fillet crank, stock rods, ARP fasteners, TRW pistons, billet roller cam, big valve 8445 iron heads, 0-ring deck and so on.. It's not really even stressed yet, there is more in it with a bigger turbo, more fuel and tuning. 9's are not entirely out of the question but I'm not in the mood to push the block to the extreme.
And by the way, the 3800 and the Series II 3800 are not the same as a GN motor. Not trying to stir any controversy, but you should know the facts.
I would have to say that my GN's engine with a strong transmission would make the Fiero almost undriveable. Either that or a brilliantly set up suspension would be required. I could see hitting it from a 50 mph roll and walking bikes.
------------------ Competition Yellow 84 2.5 Bone stock right down to electrical gremlins
[This message has been edited by Joe 1320 (edited 02-10-2006).]
what pontiac deal was that again???? and what was the time? like 7pm or something??? Yeha as far as money goes these last 2 moths i might end up taking the ins off the fiero for a month or 2 until i can get back on my feet stupid yard- they onl ygave me like 12.5 hours this last week. Not enough for me to afford 264 a month. I would drive the fiero rather the van fro more then one reason BUT still snowy out (i drove this last storm with barely any tred left to my tires he he he) my van is awd has snow tires all round - and funyn it actualyl cost like 3 month a month to insure but the fiero needs new breaks/ a blead... valentines is coming up. the fiero has no heat (which sucks more then my old girlfriend drunk) so yeah it might not be there i'll try to get some pics developed of it though. Not real intereresting interior is shabby (at least the center counle stuf like heater and radio - i am missing a speaker some how on the drivrers side behind the seat too... the radio system does nto wrok either... and meck and all that)...
So yeah cool that - i just think it is cool to get to know new poeple learn new things and all. I can tell you this my oen yar of college and all my years in highschool through kindergarden i learne dalmost nothing if it were not for friends and my own book studuis the teachers were mostly idiots who just read from books or said what they were told to tell-nothing more then follers trying to teach followers unsuccefully. unfortuantlly there is not much life by just aying yeah i learned that from a friend... so college is must so forth so yeah.
I just love to learn and meetnew people so joining a fiero club would be cool as heck to me! Hope to see you there!
Great you are in teh ten's but what is your MPG? I don't knwo much about the GN motor although i am much more attracted to a turbo 4 much more over a six not because of power mostly beacause the MPG. to me the best buitl 6 cyl was the RB26dett from teh r34 skyline nur there is someone that has dynoed 2800hp to the wheels from my understanding although i can't find the link i assure you if there was a way i would much rather use that L6 then any other motor.
And for a further note i think i am going to end up using a NA 3800 motor and twin t61 turbo setup in the fiero when i get the more MONEY factor.. as for now i thinki am just going to get everything running PERFECT then paint it and then do the intior (with custom gages and PISA dash) then i will do the swap. the main problme is i have an auto and not a stick and that 125c will run 2 grand to build to hold anykind of power is a 3 spd and is not worth it. i would rather a 65 hd or a 60e tranny with the fourspeed and 3800 na so i cna run minimal PSI (better MPG) at times that i don't need much it is much more effective this way. and you are correct there is quite the aftermarket fo eh gn motor but i am looking at 4cyls and this happens to be the best 4cyl on hte market other than the new ecotec whihc will not even be turbocharged until 2007 and will have less hp/tq (240 vs 279) then the newest version of the 4g63.
quote
Originally posted by Joe 1320:
You're kidding right? Have you ever checked into the aftermarket for the GN? How about an all aluminum block from T/A specialties good for 2000 HP. (no joke) The design had top fuel input. How about steel cranks, rods, pistons, wicked flowing heads from Champion, whatever turbo you could stuff in the engine bay. There are guys making over 600 HP still with a factory block, crank, rods and pistons.
As a point of referance, my full weight GN is in the 10s with a 109 block, RJC block girdle, Steel mains, rolled fillet crank, stock rods, ARP fasteners, TRW pistons, billet roller cam, big valve 8445 iron heads, 0-ring deck and so on.. It's not really even stressed yet, there is more in it with a bigger turbo, more fuel and tuning. 9's are not entirely out of the question but I'm not in the mood to push the block to the extreme.
And by the way, the 3800 and the Series II 3800 are not the same as a GN motor. Not trying to stir any controversy, but you should know the facts.
Great you are in teh ten's but what is your MPG? I don't knwo much about the GN motor
My point exactly. Like I said, not meaning to bash your choice or reasoning other than setting the record straight as far as aftermarket support for the GN motor. There is tons of it. And my gas mileage at cruise is roughly 30-32. When at boost, it more resembles the fuel consumption of Airforce One. I would imagine with less weight and better aerodynamics by installing it in a fiero, I would bet that mid to high 30s would be conservative. Good luck with your project.
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11:41 AM
zedder24 Member
Posts: 29 From: Worcester, MA, USA Registered: Jan 2002
Originally posted by vballman: couple issues I have are the axcels and the rear deck lid. The axcels can be figured out, but how much change is needed for the deck lid? that is what I need to know.
I don't have an answer for that yet. The way we mounted the motor in the car, it doesn't clear the timing belt cover and the support hits the head when it's all the way down.
It will probably involve taking off the supports and getting a guy who knows how to fiberglass create an appropriate "bump" to clear the timing belt.
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12:17 PM
RCR Member
Posts: 4450 From: Shelby Twp Mi Registered: Sep 2002
Zedder24: Cool swap. Always like the innovative approaches people use to hot rod their car. I was looking at the ics you have and something caught my eye:
I looked at using the firewall to mount a dogbone for my 3800SC. Unless you reinforced it, that firewall isn't going to hold anything. So, unless the rest of the mounts are preventing movement and the top one is for looks, you might have busted glass all over the first time you get on it and hook up.
Hey Vega - Kev told me that he's been talking to you a bunch lately! Hope to see you at one of the upcoming meetings (although you won't see many Fieros there until the weather thaws out). The next meeting is Monday Feb 20th.
Other people here who are part of MFF? Kev, Silicoan86, Racingman24, FieroSTS, FieroHoho, DrRodey, GTGeff (owner of the Stinger & Club President), Purple Reign, MOBILE, Oslo, etc... it's pretty big/active group
Originally posted by RCR: I looked at using the firewall to mount a dogbone for my 3800SC. Unless you reinforced it, that firewall isn't going to hold anything. So, unless the rest of the mounts are preventing movement and the top one is for looks, you might have busted glass all over the first time you get on it and hook up.
Thanks Bob... that "mount" was just there temporarily. It has all 4 DSM mounts on it that are welded to the frame or cradle.
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02:51 PM
Jun 21st, 2006
stuffy236 Member
Posts: 30 From: Lubbock, Texas Registered: Feb 2006
Technically speaking, the engine is assembled here in the US, BUT.... the parts are made over seas. So, just because it is assembled here does not make it american. Mitsu is not an american company, The parts are not made in the USA.
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11:27 PM
stuffy236 Member
Posts: 30 From: Lubbock, Texas Registered: Feb 2006
oops i guess there is more.. By searching for your user name in the archives i found two threads that you were in if i would have know you were ever pat of the forum i guess that would haev made it alot easier to get a hold of you.
There is another guy talking about doing the same swap. do we know what ever happend to him? "the fieromaster"?
Im still here... i lurk mostly. Sick of Trolls, and flame wars.
I had a FEW fast DSM's ask FieroMaster88 up there about my Plymouth Laser. Had about 5 grand in engine bolt ons. I have a full list on my pc somewhere. She was crazy fast and could burn up all FOUR tires through 2nd gear!!
I totally dropped the idea of the DSM motor swap because making that kinda power it isnt super reliable. Thats all there is to it. I have a 3800SC swap now. After i put the intercooler in and grab some rockers this winter ill be making the same 300+hp and prolly about 50 more ft/lbs of TQ then the Laser and be able to drive it every day. WIthout worrys... on long road trips!! lol. I could probably get lotsa reliablity out of the 4G63 at 300+ HP, but i dont want to spend 3,000$ on a BLOCK!! My L67 was barly a grand COMPLETE!
Well now ya know
however i did TONS of research on this swap so if you got questions SHOOT!
------------------ "Raced That, Wrecked Better"~In Memory Of Jesse Cesek~ 1980-2000 US Armored Cavalry - Fox 2/81 - Death By 120 - 1 Shot 1 Kill 3800 SuperCharged Series II Swap, ZZP Intercooler, Fastback Swap
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10:18 AM
PFF
System Bot
The Fieromaster Member
Posts: 4124 From: Painesville, Ohio USA Registered: Jun 2001
Zedder24: Cool swap. Always like the innovative approaches people use to hot rod their car. I was looking at the ics you have and something caught my eye:
I looked at using the firewall to mount a dogbone for my 3800SC. Unless you reinforced it, that firewall isn't going to hold anything. So, unless the rest of the mounts are preventing movement and the top one is for looks, you might have busted glass all over the first time you get on it and hook up.
Bob
I agree that does look not strong... That bracket actually connects to a wraparound and the original engines mount sits in the middle right between the two cam pullies. I dont understand how that picture is oriented... looks like the trans is now on the PASSENGER side!? I planned to insert engine like it was in fiero origanally and use that stock 4g63 mount in the battery box area with a tube steel frame to mount the bracket to...
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10:24 AM
Greg Z Member
Posts: 1218 From: New Orleans Registered: Jun 2004
VEGA- thank-you for bringing ZEDDER24 here to share with us. ZEDDER24- thank-you for sharing. the 4G63 is one of the worlds greatest engines! if anyone here disputes that its simply because they have never owned one. back in 97 i had a 97 GSX w/3000.00 of used aftermarket parts on it and was running consistent 12:5's @109 mph. now i know thats no big deal now but in 97 it was! keep up the wonderful work.
------------------
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06:39 PM
mysticfire6602 Member
Posts: 624 From: bloomsburg, pa Registered: May 2006
I know this looks like it could be a really nice ride and equal out the weight of the fiero for better handleing. Not to start a flame about V8's vs 4 bangers but some 4 bangers and some 6cyl can stomp all over a V8. I decided to use a cosworth 16v with a circle track intake cam and stock exhaust cam and push the compression to 10-1 but when the head is done being shaved will be closer to 11-1 and I should be at about 260hp 250tq at 8000rpm with more to go total cost with engine is under 2grand. But the reason for that engine swap instead of a v8 is for a 50/50 weight distribution and better handleing and with a rollcage and bigger tires it will murder a lotus on any apex! I am for this engine swap in a Fiero now lets get a RB32 in with a single turbo and go kill big blocks all day at the track.
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08:00 PM
Mar 29th, 2007
zedder24 Member
Posts: 29 From: Worcester, MA, USA Registered: Jan 2002
It's funny this was bumped recently. A friend and I just got the car back from Alex at DSG. The intercooler pipes are complete and the exhaust is complete from the turbo to the muffler.
We're pulling the motor this weekend to clean things up and install the clutch and proper trans. I've ordered the fuel system parts from Summit (-6AN lines from the Walbro in-tank pump) and new wheel bearings/brakes/pads/calipers/brake lines all around.
Then, onward to complete the tasks on the whiteboard. We are hoping to have it running by June. In the body shop and ready to rock by the DSM shootout in August.
Thanks again for all the support. Worcester isn't such a bad place to live after all.
Greg
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11:58 AM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5387 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Are you one of those guys in the Talons or Eclipses that used to run at the Seekonk Speedway Spectator Drags? I heard one of them was trying to do a DSM->Fiero swap years ago when I was racing my Fiero GT's there.
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12:20 PM
zedder24 Member
Posts: 29 From: Worcester, MA, USA Registered: Jan 2002
Although I never raced at Seekonk, I went to a bunch of the races a few years ago. You may have talked with Leon in the green Talon or one of the other guys. I remember at least one Fiero there. Leon and I came up with the idea of putting the 4g63 in the Fiero, and I ran with it. He is now putting a 4g63 in a Triumph TR-7.
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01:00 PM
Riceburner98 Member
Posts: 2179 From: Natick, Ma, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Crap!!! Did you guys just stop at EMC, or do you work there? Almost lost a poop when I opened the pictures! I worked in that building for quite a while... Only had my Fiero there a few times though, but knew 1 guy with a Fiero that worked there. (Wasn't you was it?! LOL) Crazy.
------------------ Bob Williams Working on the next 3800 swap.. Missing the one that worked!
