There is not much preventing our turbo 3800 fieros from pulling 1g nearly the full length of the track. Mine easily stays in the 1g range from 0-60. In the higher gears in justins fiero, I wouldnt be surprised to see .8g on some more boost in the top gears
Your average turbo mustang on drag radials will be pulling a full G the whole track, with a pretty darn flat acceleration line.
Are you talking about the track run(not street) against himself-I dont think he hit 150 did you? Maybe you should revisit the 'bloody' post-(arent you from suppposed to be from MI?) thanks for giving me my 12th post.
whoops you are right. my bad. sorry. the track race is still a good indicator of that cars power(he is against a truck but the truck is "slow " ) it must have been another thread when he was racing a street bike on the street...thats the vid i thought was up in his first post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGY-2E8DLRI
and well, no i dont think he can get 150 in a 1/4 mile thats why we need a longer straight track or some may take to the streets. so they can get to 150+. thats the problem with "taking it to the track" most of them are not long enough to reach the upper limits/potential of their cars.
[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 06-14-2010).]
Originally posted by batousai666: and well, no i dont think he can get 150 in a 1/4 mile thats why we need a longer straight track or some may take to the streets. so they can get to 150+. thats the problem with "taking it to the track" most of them are not long enough to reach the upper limits/potential of their cars.
Oval tracks have track days too, and give you a lot more distance to get up to speed.
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10:59 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Oval tracks have track days too, and give you a lot more distance to get up to speed.
We havent really hit over 100 on the 1/4 mile circles here in town. I would expect about 120 on the 1/2 mile tracks, maybe a bit more.... but coming back into the corner is always a bit scary, as you dont want to take it much over 60.
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11:23 AM
jreigner Member
Posts: 151 From: Willow Street, PA Registered: May 2010
irrelevant, the engine is making the same power at 70 as 140 the car is not accelerating as fast because of wind resistance.
Stability at that speed is far from irrelevant...what's irrelevant is how much power the engine is making at that speed. People die at those speeds because they don't take such things into account. Speed does not kill, ignorance and on occassion - chance/bad luck - does.
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02:04 PM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5390 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
We havent really hit over 100 on the 1/4 mile circles here in town. I would expect about 120 on the 1/2 mile tracks, maybe a bit more.... but coming back into the corner is always a bit scary, as you dont want to take it much over 60.
I can only redline 3rd before I have to hit a turn on the 1/3 mile oval track a couple of towns over. (Seekonk Speedway) This is for a spectator drag event they hold 4 times over the summer.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 06-14-2010).]
Originally posted by darkhorizon: We havent really hit over 100 on the 1/4 mile circles here in town. I would expect about 120 on the 1/2 mile tracks, maybe a bit more.... but coming back into the corner is always a bit scary, as you dont want to take it much over 60.
I was thinking a bit larger. The 1+ mile length tracks. The short tracks are sometimes hard to go fast on in a go kart even.
I can only redline 3rd before I have to hit a turn on the 1/3 mile oval track a couple of towns over. (Seekonk Speedway) This is for a spectator drag event they hold 4 times over the summer.
I won $1000 last summer at the spectator events, which paid for my turbo build. There are 3 tracks with in 30 minutes of me that hold them. I got an invite to a big money one across the boarder in Canada. It was like $1500 to first $500 to second and $200 the 3rd. Its nice being able to clean up on those with a low budget car.
If you think Thailand has different tolerances of risk based on culture, as an argument in support of stupidity, then you're wrong..
Umm, you need to get out and see the world my friend. You should read my posts a little closer.......... It was, in fact, GOOD business publicity. You are superimposing your own cultural views on this situation and coming up with the wrong conclusion. 2+2=5, so to speak. Is going 182 MPH all the way from Pattaya to my hotel in the outskirts of Bangkok, Like Khun Kampon did in his GTR stupid? IMO--Yes! Do the Thais care? Apparently not enough to complain. You and I are in agreement. on most everything here, believe it or not! Anyway, I threw this info out to put the original persons post into some sort of perspective--with that EXTREME video inside the Mitsu Evo. Since we were going about as fast in the Lotus, it looked pretty familiar to me. BTW, It looks like I'll be going to Thailand later this year and will be hanging out with the same rich reprobates as before. I'll take pictures if we run over any babies or cause any Samlors to crash. I don't think it's fair to anybody else to waste any more electrons on this. Peace.
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11:32 PM
Jun 15th, 2010
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5390 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
I won $1000 last summer at the spectator events, which paid for my turbo build. There are 3 tracks with in 30 minutes of me that hold them. I got an invite to a big money one across the boarder in Canada. It was like $1500 to first $500 to second and $200 the 3rd. Its nice being able to clean up on those with a low budget car.
thats all of your thread i read. lol. have a good one.
HE must be a Politican. they read and hear only what they want to, also. . typical. he wont last long here! my apologies to JustinBart....sorry. no more electrons from me either....
PS Black Lotus....color me jealous....you got some fine looking driving roads and a sweet car over there in WA. PEACE, Bro. have fun in Thailand....stay cool.
[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 06-15-2010).]
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09:08 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Power wins. The fiero only handles as well as the rubber that is on the road, and when you are racing c5zo6 vettes, built STI's, and 500HP mustangs with slicks... You are going to need everything you can get to beat them. "superior" handling does not mean you can take a high speed corner better than the guy next to you with all stock suspension.
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10:04 AM
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
Power wins. The fiero only handles as well as the rubber that is on the road, and when you are racing c5zo6 vettes, built STI's, and 500HP mustangs with slicks... You are going to need everything you can get to beat them. "superior" handling does not mean you can take a high speed corner better than the guy next to you with all stock suspension.
It also doesn't mean that faster car with stickier tires next to you is going to win either. It all depends entirely on the type of race, and even more important, the skill of the driver. Any 500hp stang with slicks can get their a$$ handed to them if they don't know how to use their car. Some people have the money but no skill. Some have the skill but no money. The guys to fear are the ones with both!!
I agree 500% on the rubber. Its is quite easily the second most important part to building a competitive car. Getting yourself ready tops the list though. The better you and your tires are matched for the particular race the faster you will be. I have autocrossed entirely stock 4 cyl fieros and beat much faster and better cars. I just knew how to handle mine better and really push its limits. Cornering limits in a fiero are quite high in stock form when good tires are used. With a bit of work there is little out there that can really compete in the corners. Shocks/struts, springs, bushings, swaybars, and great tires make a very competitive fiero in most cases.
Faster corner entrance and exit speeds can nullify a good amount of their higher power and faster acceleration. This is where the driver skill comes in. Faster in the corners can easily make for a win over more powerful cars.
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 06-15-2010).]
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10:38 AM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5390 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Power wins. The fiero only handles as well as the rubber that is on the road, and when you are racing c5zo6 vettes, built STI's, and 500HP mustangs with slicks... You are going to need everything you can get to beat them. "superior" handling does not mean you can take a high speed corner better than the guy next to you with all stock suspension.
Who said I was on stock suspension? Did you read my thread? On an oval 1/3 track, 500HP and poor handling will lose to 300HP and good handling.
When I was only running 150HP, I beat alot of cars with over 250HP. The reason I don't bother with 1/4 mile times is that any car can spend $$$ and get a certain time slip.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 06-15-2010).]
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11:05 AM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5390 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
It also doesn't mean that faster car with stickier tires next to you is going to win either. It all depends entirely on the type of race, and even more important, the skill of the driver. Any 500hp stang with slicks can get their a$$ handed to them if they don't know how to use their car. Some people have the money but no skill. Some have the skill but no money. The guys to fear are the ones with both!!
I agree 500% on the rubber. Its is quite easily the second most important part to building a competitive car. Getting yourself ready tops the list though. The better you and your tires are matched for the particular race the faster you will be. I have autocrossed entirely stock 4 cyl fieros and beat much faster and better cars. I just knew how to handle mine better and really push its limits. Cornering limits in a fiero are quite high in stock form when good tires are used. With a bit of work there is little out there that can really compete in the corners. Shocks/struts, springs, bushings, swaybars, and great tires make a very competitive fiero in most cases.
Faster corner entrance and exit speeds can nullify a good amount of their higher power and faster acceleration. This is where the driver skill comes in. Faster in the corners can easily make for a win over more powerful cars.
This is why I went with the bump-steer correction kits on my Fieros. I used to tend to spin out on my exits. No more!
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11:14 AM
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
This is why I went with the bump-steer correction kits on my Fieros. I used to tend to spin out on my exits. No more!
Ha! I went with another route and swapped in an 88 cradle and rear suspension. It falls under a the retrofit rule for autocross.
Actually I was suprised how well it works with the early front suspension. Feels better to me then the entire 88 suspension. I do have a bit more oversteer then I'd like at the moment. Running stock 88 rear and 85 front swaybars is probably why. I think the front could use an upgrade.
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 06-15-2010).]
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11:36 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Who said I was on stock suspension? Did you read my thread? On an oval 1/3 track, 500HP and poor handling will lose to 300HP and good handling.
When I was only running 150HP, I beat alot of cars with over 250HP. The reason I don't bother with 1/4 mile times is that any car can spend $$$ and get a certain time slip.
I never said you were on stock anything... I said that a car with 2x the power, and stock suspension vs whatever you have... you are going to lose. The fiero stock or mildly modded is far from a "good handler" on a circle track.. the front tires are going to just understeer forever, because of limited weight on the front, and the braking performance coming into corners is usually lacking due to weight balance as well, but that is fairly simply fixed. We fixed a few problems at the oval by fiddling with tire sizes, alignment, and other things to try to get the front end to wrap around. They helped, but they were pretty extreme.
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09:14 PM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5390 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
I never said you were on stock anything... I said that a car with 2x the power, and stock suspension vs whatever you have... you are going to lose. The fiero stock or mildly modded is far from a "good handler" on a circle track.. the front tires are going to just understeer forever, because of limited weight on the front, and the braking performance coming into corners is usually lacking due to weight balance as well, but that is fairly simply fixed. We fixed a few problems at the oval by fiddling with tire sizes, alignment, and other things to try to get the front end to wrap around. They helped, but they were pretty extreme.
You should stick to 1/4 mile races then. My Fieros out-handle my '97 vette.
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09:23 PM
17Car Member
Posts: 482 From: Morrisdale, PA Registered: Jun 2009
I absolutely know the 3+ wouldn't hold. I have a 3+ with their superclamp pressure plate and it SLIPS. I paid something around $600+ for this setup and I should have just gone with the stage5. The 3+ is a lot more streetable than the stage3 I used to run, but it does not hold when I turn the boost up.
i guess spec is full of shizzz then. typical exxagerating clutch manufacturer
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11:14 PM
Jun 16th, 2010
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5390 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
No, you didn't. You simply ignored all other factors except power. On an oval track, power is not everything. Just because you choose to ignore something doesn't make you right. Also, if one has half the power, along with half the weight, I fail to see an advantage in power. Not that this is the case, but with great power, their is typically a weight penalty that comes with it. There's also a traction penalty off the line, which on an oval track is very important. I've frequently been able to pull 2 lengths on my commpetition off the line and stole the inside lane from them because of the Fiero traction advantage despite being *under-powered*.
Now if you wanna claim that this happened because they don't know how to drive, then you simply just added to my argument that power isn't everything.
Love it. I have been tempted to try my luck at Owosso Speedway with my Fiero. They do the race like this on the 3/8 mile oval. So it might be interesting to try it out against other types of cars. Maybe after I get it all done and all the bugs worked out I will try it.
I might make it to the July 4th one at Dixie, I'll be up north but I might drive back down to do it. I went to Owosso last year but it rained out. Their next one is the end of September, maybe I'll see you there.
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12:57 AM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5390 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Love it. I have been tempted to try my luck at Owosso Speedway with my Fiero. They do the race like this on the 3/8 mile oval. So it might be interesting to try it out against other types of cars. Maybe after I get it all done and all the bugs worked out I will try it.
Unless you have an '88, cosider one of the two rear bump-steer correction kits on the market. I have both and they seem to work equally well.
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12:50 PM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
... the front tires are going to just understeer forever, because of limited weight on the front, and the braking performance coming into corners is usually lacking due to weight balance as well ...
Porsche is going to be really disappointed when they realize that the 911 has been hampered by these same characteristics for the last 45 years! I think this is probably the first time I've ever seen an assertion that chronic understeer and poor braking are inherent problems in cars with a significant rear weight bias,
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-17-2010).]
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04:49 PM
FastIndyFiero Member
Posts: 2546 From: Wichita, KS Registered: Aug 2002
Porsche is going to be really disappointed when they realize that the 911 has been hampered by these same characteristics for the last 45 years!
Technically, Porsche is going to be really disappointed when their 911 buyers figure that out, and simultaneously prioritize improved handling versus a traditional 911 layout. I don't see that happening any time soon. The Boxster - and more importantly the Cayman - are MR for a reason.
------------------ My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build. You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped its mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs. (Leader of the Insurgency)
[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-17-2010).]
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04:57 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Technically, Porsche is going to be really disappointed when their 911 buyers figure that out, and simultaneously prioritize improved handling versus a traditional 911 layout. I don't see that happening any time soon. The Boxster - and more importantly the Cayman - are MR for a reason.
porche never built cars to turn left...
nascar /= roadcourse
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07:44 PM
PFF
System Bot
MadMark Member
Posts: 2935 From: Owosso, Michigan, USA Registered: Feb 2010
I might make it to the July 4th one at Dixie, I'll be up north but I might drive back down to do it. I went to Owosso last year but it rained out. Their next one is the end of September, maybe I'll see you there.
That might be possible. The one thing I worry about is some nut case pranging me with his toad of a car because he/she would over drive it trying to keep up.
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11:45 PM
Jun 18th, 2010
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
That might be possible. The one thing I worry about is some nut case pranging me with his toad of a car because he/she would over drive it trying to keep up.
The last race justin ran was like that. This silver camaro just kamazied into the turns spinning out each time. Luckily justin was fast enough to avoid it, but the poor redneck was jumping around cussing him out saying that he was driving dirty lol.
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08:34 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14300 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Technically, Porsche is going to be really disappointed when their 911 buyers figure that out, and simultaneously prioritize improved handling versus a traditional 911 layout. I don't see that happening any time soon. The Boxster - and more importantly the Cayman - are MR for a reason.
If you look at where the major masses of a vehicle are, a TWO SEAT rear engine layout puts the engine, transmission and occupants into a smaller footprint than does a 2 seat mid-engine layout. All Porsche has to do is stop kidding people about the Carerra having a back seat, chop 6-8" out of the middle of it and make it a two seater.
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09:12 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25555 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
So a buddy wants to race me from 80-150 in his '08 cbr600. We have been grudge racing for many years. Any car he gets or modifies hasn't won yet. I have always been a step ahead. I've been ragging on him about this 600cc sport bike and how it will still be slower than me. I would much rather do a 1/4 mile race at the track, he would even have the advantage, but he is still new to the bike and afraid he will pull the wheel and dump it. He is convinced that we have to race to 150mph. I'm pretty confident that the faster we go the better I'll be but he doesn't believe it. I don't think I've been over 140mph before. Is my car going to take off and go air borne? I will pop my hood to try and release some pressure but still uncomfortable about this. I have 245/45-17 azenis on 4 corners and the car is lowered about 1.5"-2". Have any of you been over 150 in a stock areo fiero?
Hmm, I really can't see this ending well.
When I was in my late teens, and even around ~20... the fastest I took my 1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 was maybe 130mph. It was mostly stock, but I had slightly larger diameter than stock tires, brand new, Z-rated, a Hypertech Chip (I know...), K&N air filter, aftermarket exhaust, water seperator removed, and a Holley air intake scoop... heh... I had poly sway bars, and new KYB shocks and struts all around.
The needle was pegged at the area past the 120 mark (what would probably be about 125). It continued to accelerate past that point for maybe a minute (slowly) and then the car simply "stayed" at it's RPM. For what it's worth, there was still another ~800 rpms left in the rpm range before it would have gotten into the yellow area. The car was in a GOOD state of tune (all sensors were newish, and the car / chassis only had about 80k miles on it at the time. This was in ~1998. This was with my Th-125c w/ 3.33:1 gears.
I WILL say that the car felt MORE secure and stable at 120+ than it did at 60 miles an hour...
Needless to say, it was RIDICULOUSLY stupid... and I should be thankful that I'm alive. Despite as awesome as I think the Fiero is... it's nothing more than a Chevette / Citation... and while that still works well, it's not a Ferrari, and was never really designed to be stable or drive at those speeds.
Even if you put a Northstar V8 in your Fiero (don't know what you have in there to make you hit 11s), unless you've COMPLETELY re-done your suspension with solid poly and everything else... you're really risking a lot. AND... if you plan on doing this on public streets (which I assume you are), then you're putting other people at risk as well.
As I said in my first sentence, I don't see this ending well.
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
Im not a motorcycle person in any way. With the power to weight ratio, I really dont see any street car capable of beating a bike in a drag race. My modified and turboed Fiero kitcar would top 150 (given enough time) and Ill guess any crotch rocket would blow me away in pickup.
Well, that's not necessarily true... there's a lot of underpowered bikes out there. For example, there are very few Harleys that will even out-accelerate a Crown Victoria for that matter. Bikes aren't all fast, and just because they look Japanese with fancy weird flames and angled designes on them also doesn't mean they're fast. Not all croch rockets are fast either. But there are several out there that are pretty damn quick. I would say the average big-boy type Harley runs low 16s in the quarter... at best.
I own several cars capable of 150 mph +, but would never attempt it on a public road no matter ho deserted it looks. Had a client whose kid did this and he was taken out by someone that changed lanes for no reason (no one else around except the kid about to pass him). Maybe he imagined there was a rock in the road or something.
Anyway, just wanted to add one thing - you mentioned doing this at night.
FYI the Fiero Cd goes up by a fulll .04 when you raise the headlights.....
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03:11 PM
MadMark Member
Posts: 2935 From: Owosso, Michigan, USA Registered: Feb 2010
The last race justin ran was like that. This silver camaro just kamazied into the turns spinning out each time. Luckily justin was fast enough to avoid it, but the poor redneck was jumping around cussing him out saying that he was driving dirty lol.
That is funny. He was cheating because he beat the Camaro? I watched the whole video and it was pretty obvious that the Camaro couldn't come close to cornering like the Fiero and proved it by spinning out both times.
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06:10 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
That is funny. He was cheating because he beat the Camaro? I watched the whole video and it was pretty obvious that the Camaro couldn't come close to cornering like the Fiero and proved it by spinning out both times.
Yea, I laughed in his face... he was quite mad. He got a little upset when I told him his carb'd 350 made 1/2 the power that the fiero made (was probably true anyway lol)
Just wanted to throw this in... I have completely re-done all my front and rear suspension/bushings etc. and I was able to get my 87GT/3800SC/Getrag up to 167mph before I hit a bump and got scared lol. I still had about 1000rpm left to go, so I'm hoping I can get it to 200mph at the track after a little more tightening up... Have any of you been able to get your getrag over 200mph? What is the max it will push around 6k rpm?
the track race is still a good indicator of that cars power(he is against a truck but the truck is "slow " 
) 
.
