So a buddy wants to race me from 80-150 in his '08 cbr600. We have been grudge racing for many years. Any car he gets or modifies hasn't won yet. I have always been a step ahead. I've been ragging on him about this 600cc sport bike and how it will still be slower than me. I would much rather do a 1/4 mile race at the track, he would even have the advantage, but he is still new to the bike and afraid he will pull the wheel and dump it. He is convinced that we have to race to 150mph. I'm pretty confident that the faster we go the better I'll be but he doesn't believe it. I don't think I've been over 140mph before. Is my car going to take off and go air borne? I will pop my hood to try and release some pressure but still uncomfortable about this. I have 245/45-17 azenis on 4 corners and the car is lowered about 1.5"-2". Have any of you been over 150 in a stock areo fiero?

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Just tell us which funeral home to send the flowers

First, you need an engine that can put out the power, second a tranny that can use that power. Do you have that? .... this doesn't exist in stock form.

If you have the power/tranny, then look at lowering the car (bigger wheels don't matter), install a vent into the hood, lock down the headlight covers..... and then pray.....

Personally, I wouldn't attempt it in a Fiero, but that is because the car was not designed for those speeds, especially on a car this old.

Leaving the hood 'poppsed' to relieve pressure is a definite bad idea. Once you get to speed, it will fly open, and you won't be able to see a damn thing. If you're worried about it, don't do it, and keep your antics on the drag strip. Otherwise, you're just going to get yourself and/or others seriously injured.

I have more than enough hp to go 150+. It takes me less than 4 seconds to go from 96-130...

quote Originally posted by dobey: Leaving the hood 'popped' to relieve pressure is a definite bad idea. Once you get to speed, it will fly open, and you won't be able to see a damn thing. If you're worried about it, don't do it, and keep your antics on the drag strip. Otherwise, you're just going to get yourself and/or others seriously injured.

Huh? The hood is not able to fly open, behing hinged in the front.
I have been to 140 on a long downhill grade. 100% stock 88 gt 5 speed. Running next to a bike to get the speed measurment. It was not an easy feeling, but not scary either. No sudden moves or gusts of wind, and it is doable.
Would I do it again? Prolly not.
I've also seen 165 in a 97 Camaro Z28. A long stretch in Oklahoma. The feeling was about the same. I try to keep everything under 100 now that I am old.
And bikes scare the crap outta me. I don't ever plan on being on one again.

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86 SE ChopTop 4 Speed 3.4 "The Short Bus"

"For Sale"

Didn't someone figure out the speed vs gearing? I don't think a stock fiero can get close to 150mph because of the tranny (unless you are running a high-revving engine, maybe). Also, how are you verifying the speed? The speedo, GPS or ??

J.

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: It takes me less than 4 seconds to go from 96-130...

In your streetable Fiero?

If your car weighs 2800 pounds, including fuel and driver, you would need a 4-second average of ~450 hp at the rear wheels to achieve that.

Wank on, Dude!

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-07-2010).]

sounds like a fun blast down I-69 - assuming that will be the stretch
fairly fresh pavement - not much traffic

how is the car lowered? strong springs? good dampening? because bumpsteer at them speeds is way scary. I'm just lowered an inch with Eibachs, and near 100, it is getting close to bottoming out on the slightest of road imperfections.

and - yes - better check into the gearing, and see if 150 is even possible. basicly, check RPMs at 50, 60, 70, etc in top gear, and extrapolate from there
should be doable tho. my 4.10 4 speed, which is the lowest geared you can get 120.

and - yes - if you dont have a hood vent - pop that hood. it wont fly open. it may get scary bouncy tho

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Didn't someone figure out the speed vs gearing? I don't think a stock fiero can get close to 150mph because of the tranny (unless you are running a high-revving engine, maybe). Also, how are you verifying the speed? The speedo, GPS or ?? J.

It's a 282 getrag and at 6k rpm its calculated to go 176mph in 5th. I will probably be scanning to see what speed I hit. There should be a clear winner at 140-150 and if we are still neck and neck then might just have to go a little faster if I still feel comfortable.

quote In your streetable Fiero? Wank on, Dude!

Yep, its 100% streetable and I drive it every day.

quote Originally posted by Carver1: Huh? The hood is not able to fly open, behing hinged in the front.

Sure it is. If the hood is loose at the latch (open but laying flat), and the air pressure under the hood is great enough to overcome the pressure above the hood, and its weight, it will fly right up. Hinge direction is irrelevant. It is perhaps less likely to do so, than a normally hinged hood, but it is certainly capable of happening. If there's enough pressure to lift the front of the car (which was the original worry), then there certianly would be enough to lift just the hood.

Cut springs in the front and 88 rear cradle swap with coil overs in the rear. Its very stable at 130 but I know forces really start to multiply at 150mph.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: This would take place on a 6 lane wide road with concrete walls on each side for about a 10 mile stretch with no other cars besides a few chassers.

You got a permit to block it off for this stunt? Emergency crews standing by? Road is totally clear of debris or imperfections?

You never know who might decide to be on the road at the same time. I don't know about you, but there are very few roads in this country I would feel comfortable taking a bike at 100 mph on, let alone 150+. More important than the cars not being 'designed' to go that fast, the roads in this country aren't designed and maintained for it either. If your pal on the cbr catches a tiny pebble wrong in the tire at 150mph, you might as well just stop and call the county morgue.

Just because it can be done doesn't mean that it should be done. As several people have pointed out, there are too many variables here that will be beyond your control; road debris, unexpected motorists, a sudden gust of wind, etc. Are your tires rated for that speed? If not they can come apart quite easily. Furthermore, your friend on the bike has even more to worry about than you. At the risk of sounding boorish, this is a bad idea and you are just asking for trouble. Keep in on the track, plain and simple.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Didn't someone figure out the speed vs gearing? I don't think a stock fiero can get close to 150mph because of the tranny (unless you are running a high-revving engine, maybe). Also, how are you verifying the speed? The speedo, GPS or ?? J.

Only with the autos...
136MPH@6000RPM - 3.33FDR 3 speed auto

But with a 2.84 you could hit 160MPH, theoretically...

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 06-07-2010).]

quote Originally posted by dobey: Sure it is. If the hood is loose at the latch (open but laying flat), and the air pressure under the hood is great enough to overcome the pressure above the hood, and its weight, it will fly right up. Hinge direction is irrelevant. It is perhaps less likely to do so, than a normally hinged hood, but it is certainly capable of happening. If there's enough pressure to lift the front of the car (which was the original worry), then there certianly would be enough to lift just the hood.

I got you now.

A couple thoughts:

1) If I was you I wouldn't race him for the various safety reasons above.

2) If you friend really, really knows how to ride you will find his '08 CBR600 hard to beat. If he can do a proper drag launch on his bike; he should be able to get his 1/4 mile times down in to the high 10 sec area at about 130mph. I've seen lots of 600cc sportbikes do low 11sec times at the track with out too much trouble. Also the top speed of a bone stock '08 CBR 600 straight out of the show room is in the range of 160~170mph. I don't know how your Fiero is setup, maybe it can go that fast; but do you really want too?

On a related note check out this you tube video of a Sportbike (a CBR954), doing a high speed run (299kph = ~185mph) on the highway in traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-fHJIw6Lh4

[This message has been edited by W Scott (edited 06-07-2010).]

How good are your tires and brakes?

quote Originally posted by dobey: Sure it is. If the hood is loose at the latch (open but laying flat), and the air pressure under the hood is great enough to overcome the pressure above the hood, and its weight, it will fly right up. Hinge direction is irrelevant. It is perhaps less likely to do so, than a normally hinged hood, but it is certainly capable of happening. If there's enough pressure to lift the front of the car (which was the original worry), then there certianly would be enough to lift just the hood.

There is no way that the hood on a Fiero will fly up if it is not latched. The air pressure from under the car will never be greater than the downforce of air pressure across the top of the hood. The hood popped relieves/reduces the pressure build up under the car and thus reduces drag and lift.

As for this thread, The fastest I have been is 140 mph in a notchback aero Fiero. If you plan on 150 mph I would suggest taping down the headlight covers and popping the hood. Also I would check tire pressures and alignments. Your post states you hit 126 mph at the strip, How does your car handle at that point? If it feels real twitchy, You may have issues going faster. If it still feels like it has firm traction you may be fine. Do you have upgraded brakes as well?

Personally I wouldn't be too close (side by side) with the bike at that speed. Especially if as you say he is still new to bikes. At high speeds even bikes can become twitchy.

Tires are rated to 168mph and are in good shape. Brakes are vented grand am front and vented 88 rear. The guy on the bike claims to have gone 150 a few times already, we would have 1 or 2 lanes separating us through the duration of the run. This would most likely take place after 1am so I don't know about taping my headlights down.

If you need a passenger lemme know . sounds like fun.

you need downforce
and damned good suspension
how does the car feel at high speed?
is it still pretty tight handling at higher speeds
i had an 05 350z with no downforce and the few times that i hit 150+ were pretty hairy
i lost control at 130 once due to no downforce and a small dip in the road
i would be very cautious at those speeds
do a couple test runs slowly taking the speed up and see how she handles at those higher speeds
the world takes on a different perspective at anything over 135 or 140, things start to blur and the smallest moves can cause problems and loss of control
its gets exponentially more dangerous ever miler per hour you get above 120 in a fiero i would think

what suspension mods do you have?
i would not attempt this if you have no mods, or at least i wouldnt do it
it was downright scary the few times i hit 150 to 155 in the 350z and its made to hit those speeds

good tires, tight suspension, anything loose can cause bumpsteer and loss of control

i would personally say not to try it but i know its probly gonna happen anyway so video tape that **** , lol

quote Originally posted by dobey: If the hood is loose at the latch (open but laying flat), and the air pressure under the hood is great enough to overcome the pressure above the hood, and its weight, it will fly right up.

Your reasoning is flawed. An unlatched Fiero hood will float up until the total force (surface area * total pressure) from below equals the total force (surface area * total pressure) acting on the top of the hood plus its weight. (Actually, it's the moments about the hinge point that have to balance, but I've simplified the problem here for clarity; the general principles and the results are still valid.) This equilibrium point will usually be reached with the rear of the hood open 3 to 6 inches maximum. Think about it. With the hood fully open (i.e. vertical) on a moving car, the total pressure acting on the upper face of the hood (static pressure + 100% dynamic pressure) will be much greater than the total pressure acting on the bottom surface (static pressure + ~0% dynamic pressure). In the case of rear-mounted hinges that pressure difference will indeed result in a fully open hood, but in the case of front-mounted hinges the pressure difference will act to close the hood.

quote Hinge direction is irrelevant. It is perhaps less likely to do so, than a normally hinged hood, but it is certainly capable of happening.

Think again. This is an experiment you can easily do for yourself. Try it on a car with a front-hinged hood (e.g. a Fiero) at, say, 60 mph and then on one with a rear-hinged hood at the same speed. Let us know how it turns out.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 06-07-2010).]

Man there is a lot of crazy ideas on here..... Let me first say that having owned nearly thirteen different sportybikes over the years, having ridden the berries off of all of them, and having spent time on a racetrack as well as some rather fast rural roads in various parts of the country, I think I can honestly say that ANY modern 600 CC sportbike can easily do 150 or faster and having done it on many occasions I can say that you will NOT turn to a greasy spot if you hit a pebble in the road. I once was going 100 plus on my fzr1000 and had a small fox run across the road in front of me and I hit it at that speed. Ya know what happened? NOTHING!! One dead fox and a quick bump at the handlebars and I kept going after cleaning out my shorts.... The bikes wheels act as a rather large gyroscope at speed and it is actually more of a concern that you have difficutly turning at anything more than a slight lean than falling over.... I also had an occasion to have a rear tire blow out on my bike at over 100mph.... guess what happened.... NOTHING!! In fact I did not even know anything was wrong until I started to slow down... then the centrifugal forces that held the shape of the now empty tire together lessened with the slowing speed and the shaking and vibrating got more pronounced. I actually called my friend on my cell phone keeping the bike above 65 so he could help me get the bike to his house which was closer than mine. I rode it there with no damage to the rim and we popped the wheel off the bike and got a fresh sneaker for it....

Now what really is amazing here is that this guy actually owns a fiero FAST ENOUGH to keep up with a 600CC sportbike!!!! That is nothing short of amazing....and I salute you for being able to build such a beast!! While I don't condone street racing and I am an older hipocrite here because I used to do it all the time, it is inherently dangerous and the worst thing in the world would be to have to live with having hurt or killed an innocent bystander due to it.... If you are gonna do this, PLEASE do it where there is the absolute least chance of running into other traffic. There was a road out west in florida that was a LONG, lonely and mostly straight road that ran for many miles. We would go out there very late at night and run our bikes. We would also have people with us that would go sit at both ends of this road that had no turns or driveways on it for more than a mile. Then we would line them up and get a hi lo headlight when the coast was clear and give em hell.... It was very exciting and there were some SERIOUSLY fast bikes down there....

As far as the Fiero going that fast, I am sure that if properly equipped, properly geared, and properly setup could go that fast or faster but it would be more than just some simple mods to do it safely..... I have driven a few cars that were that fast, my father used to have corvettes and my dads 86 we both went together in one time and got to 153 indicated and it was VERY stable and smooth.... almost too smooth.... With some quality Z rated tires, and some nice wheels, a proper lowering of the car, some aerodynamic mods, preferrably a rollcage, and a few other choice mods to ensure the car will track straight and it is definitely doable. That is of course assuming that car is powerful enough to pull it off( sounds like it is)... Above all, BE CAREFUL< use your head, and if he is not a very experienced rider, consider running seperately and timing each vehicle to see which is faster.... peace

Pete

I must agree with Pete Matos about bike stability. Years ago on a Honda CBR1100XX I was running along a big long straight stretch at over 150mph, the bike in stock trim would do nearly 180mph, research it out on the web to verify if you don't believe me. While I running at this speed I hit an animal on the road, I'm not sure what type it was, it was dark andI was going to fast to tell, I just saw the eyes glowing in the distance and then I was on it in an instant, all I felt was a bump, bump. Anyhow the bike was completely stable and just sliced through the animal like it was butter. It scared the crap out me; but the bike was undamaged and didn't even wiggle once side to side.

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: I have more than enough hp to go 150+. It takes me less than 4 seconds to go from 96-130...

Forgive me if I'm skeptical. Are you going to tell us what you have for an engine in this car? You asked in your first post if anyone's done over 150MPH in a "stock" aero Fiero. Then you state you can accelerate from 96-130MPH in less than 4 seconds? You never say what you have for an engine, but let me run some "stock" performance figures by you taken by professionals with proper timing and speed measuring devices:

Source: Road & Track Oct '87
1988 Fiero Formula V6 135HP, M282 Getrag
2775 lbs empty
2935lbs with driver

0-60 MPH.............8.0sec
60-70...................2.4 sec
70-80...................3.3 sec
80-90...................4.4 sec
90-100.................6.1 sec
Top speed: 125 MPH

So if the lightest and most powerful "stock" Fiero takes more than 6 seconds to go from 90-100MPH (a ten MPH increase) then how is it your car can achieve a 30+MPH increase starting at 96MPH in "less than 4 seconds?" I can't recall you saying what engine you're running... what was it again? And how are you measuring your speed and time... from a motorcycle's speedo and a wrist watch?

The problem with theoretically calculating the top speed of your car by looking at the top gear ratio and multiplying it by 6000RPM, is that in real life the 2.8L engine doesn't have enough HP to overcome the air resistance to get anywhere near 6000RPM in 5th.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Forgive me if I'm skeptical. Are you going to tell us what you have for an engine in this car? You asked in your first post if anyone's done over 150MPH in a "stock" aero Fiero. Then you state you can accelerate from 96-130MPH in less than 4 seconds? You never say what you have for an engine, but let me run some "stock" performance figures by you taken by professionals with proper timing and speed measuring devices: Source: Road & Track Oct '87 1988 Fiero Formula V6 135HP, M282 Getrag 2775 lbs empty 2935lbs with driver 0-60 MPH.............8.0sec 60-70...................2.4 sec 70-80...................3.3 sec 80-90...................4.4 sec 90-100.................6.1 sec Top speed: 125 MPH So if the lightest and most powerful "stock" Fiero takes more than 6 seconds to go from 90-100MPH (a ten MPH increase) then how is it your car can achieve a 30+MPH increase starting at 96MPH in "less than 4 seconds?" I can't recall you saying what engine you're running... what was it again? And how are you measuring your speed and time... from a motorcycle's speedo and a wrist watch? The problem with theoretically calculating the top speed of your car by looking at the top gear ratio and multiplying it by 6000RPM, is that in real life the 2.8L engine doesn't have enough HP to overcome the air resistance to get anywhere near 6000RPM in 5th.

He has a 3800 Turbo Fiero. He traps 127mph in the 1/4 mile. He has more than enough power to run to 150mph.

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'88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph
gmtuners.com -Build info

Stock aero = stock aerodynamics, sorry if there was confusion. All the info is in my sig, and it should be faster now as my clutch has stopped slipping.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Pete and W Scott, if you know how to handle the bike, and have been riding for years, yes, a tiny pebble in the road probably isn't an issue.

But I'll leave you with this: There is a reason Air Force pilots have to walk the runway at 5 am, picking the tiniest little pebbles out of the smallest crevices. Just because something is doable, and has been done, doesn't mean it's a brilliant idea.

And besides, if you are really wanting to go fast, get a degree in astrophysics, and dedicate your life to developing wormhole travel. Then you can get across the whole galaxy in a matter of seconds.

Edit: Never mind.

[This message has been edited by psychosurfer (edited 06-07-2010).]

quote Originally posted by psychosurfer: Maybe its time to compare "other things."

Or stop comparing. It only leads to inadequacies.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Or stop comparing. It only leads to inadequacies.

ROTFL!!!!!!!

Well dobey, if you must know, the reason fighter pilots and many other pilots walk the runway looking for pebbles and other items is to ensure there is no FOD damage. Fod is Foreign object damage and a term usually relating to something that could possibly be sucked into the intake of a powerful jet engine. The pilots walking the runway are looking for anything that might be sucked into their engines intakes which might cause an engine failure on takeoff that would be catastrophic since the plane has not attained enough altitude to be able to maneuver to a safe landing or crash landing away from civilian or otherwise inhabited areas. Ask me how I know.....

Again, ANY 600 CC modern sportbike is really AMAZINGLY fast and can accellerate faster than many of the faster cars out there. Only the most powerful exotics can hope to keep up. This man has a SERIOUSLY powerful fiero, he recently posted a video of him running against I think it was a 900cc sportbike and actually held his own( quite amazing) so the idea that he could not go this fast is a moot point. The real question here is wether or not the car can outrun the bike.

If I were him I would try to take it to the dragstrip. Of course he will never reach 150mph there but it will be obvious at the end of the quarter wether or not he would beat the bike to 150. Even my 1000cc bike started to slow accelleration above around 120.... Still pulling hard just not like down low... Again please be careful and don't crash that fast cool fiero just to prove a point....peace

Pete

Well my buddy stopped over and talked me into racing him tonight. There was so much traffic. We finally got and open stretch, we started about about 60mph, he pulled up to where his back tire was at my front tire. I shifted into 4th and then he slowly started to fall back to where there was about a half car between me and him. I looked down and I was at about 6200 rpm which comes out to ~140mph. The car was very stable I didn't have time to shift into 5th or the need since I was clearly ahead. We had to split a semi truck trailer, that thing was a blur going by lol. He wanted another try so we finally found an open stretch again. My clutch slipped really bad and had to back off. We stopped at talked for awhile. I headed home and it didn't slip so I don't know what happened. He wants to try again this weekend but with an experienced rider on his bike. Hopefully I can have someone in a chaser vehicle video taping.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

quote I shifted into 4th and then he slowly started to fall back to where there was about a half car between me and him.

SMOKED!

In the heat of the race, I have seen street racers throw common sense out the door and do things that they would never have considered doing solo. On the street, there is to much going on at that speed to have the distraction of another vehicle beside you. Instead of risking your friend's life on this bike he is new to, take him for a really good ride and scare the S**T out of him. Solo is better. If these grudge races keep getting faster and faster every year, then do the math and you will see that it eventually ends. Hopefully with two good friends, who enjoy fast rides, living life with no regrets. Good luck.

Sounds like a stupid idea. Hope to not hear about you two in the news, but if I do, I'm not so sure I will feel sorry for you. I hope to God that you don't harm anybody else doing this crap. Don't be an idiot, take it to the track.

I have seen 145+ on my ZZ4 V-8 powered 86 SE with Archie's Aero Panels and Vented Hood and 5spd cryo treated manual xmsn...
My headlights started to flutter and pop up and scared the shizzle out of me. at 145+.....so I let off.....the car was still pulling ( I was pulling an 04 Mustang GT easily in 5th gear)

I have physically owned many sport bikes ( 98 VTR-1000, 01 ZX-6R, 05 ZX-6R) max 1/4 mile to date verified 11.6 @ 124mph on a 01- ZX-6R) in Maryland Crofton Raceway. I cannot confirm if I ever got faster on different bike, but that was the fastest 1/4 mile I ever had recorded.)......
MAX top speed on a bike has been 150+ indicated which had been proven to be wrong (numerous bike sites)

I wholy agree that my quickest bike ET would beat any of my Fiero ET's but it is very close that my bike and car top speeds are in the same area .....usually in the 150+ range......

Peronsally , my 86 SE w/ mods is not as safe at speed as any of my sport bikes....it just wasn't designed even with mods to go that fast.....maybe max 125+_mph....but it still can go faster.....its a make shift muscle car....not a super car.....just my thoughts :)

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1986 SE 383 SBC w/ 5spd
"Bumblebee aka Homewrecker"

140mph in 4th gear, so jealous! I'd "chase" if I was more local, lol.

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| 1984 3800 Turbo / 5speed | 518hp on a Dyno-dynamics | 11.8 @ 129mph |