Has anyone ever put the 3.0 4 cyl. engine into a fiero? I know people have used the cranks but why not use the whole engine. The best info i could find was this thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...010418-2-006281.html I have a Zumwalt v-8 kit so that should solve the bolt up issue with the trans. Any info is greatly apprecaited. And I'm currently reading https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...0710-2-019134-5.html to see if the Zumwalt will even work.

This engine is nothing like the Duke externally. It simply wouldn't work. The crank might with some considerable machine work. I have two of these cranks and wish to put one in my SD-4 block.


Here is a picture of a stock crank and the Marine crank. You can see how much beefier the Marine crank is. Esspecially the tail end. There is enough material there that could be machined down to what the stock crank is. I have heard that these cranks have been used past 10K rpm and survived in drag use.

quote Originally posted by whereatt: Has anyone ever put the 3.0 4 cyl. engine into a fiero? I know people have used the cranks but why not use the whole engine. The best info i could find was this thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...010418-2-006281.html I have a Zumwalt v-8 kit so that should solve the bolt up issue with the trans. Any info is greatly apprecaited. And I'm currently reading https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...0710-2-019134-5.html to see if the Zumwalt will even work.

You could do it, but it would take use of a Zumalt or Archie kit, and since Fiero intake/exhaust manifolds/dogbone mounts/engine mounts don't work on the 3.0, you'd be in for more work than even a SBC swap. The 3.0 engine is non-crossflow, btw.

It has output comparable to a 2.8 from a Fiero GT/SE V6. If you wanted similar performance to a GT Fiero, but with that four-cylinder sound (not sure why anyone would want this, but you might), you could do this swap.

but the 3.0 block is beffyer would a s10 or fiero head fit?

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: This engine is nothing like the Duke externally. It simply wouldn't work. The crank might with some considerable machine work. I have two of these cranks and wish to put one in my SD-4 block. Here is a picture of a stock crank and the Marine crank. You can see how much beefier the Marine crank is. Esspecially the tail end. There is enough material there that could be machined down to what the stock crank is. I have heard that these cranks have been used past 10K rpm and survived in drag use.

What exactly needs to be machined on the marine crank? Just eyeballing them on the pic it looks like the journals line up. Are the journals a different size?

As Kurt said, you need to buy a $1000 kit to have it mate to the Fiero tranny. A 3.0 marine engine has the Chevy small block bell housing bolt pattern. This makes sense for boats so they have one bolt pattern on their outdrives for all their engines.

It has been done before, and there are pics of it somewhere on the forum. I do not have time to do a search right now, but will after work.

I am all for engine swaps but it might be a good idea to consider the cost of a project before moving forward. It would seem that swapping in the 3.0L Mercury Marine engine would be an expensive proposition. Add the cost of the V8 adapter plate/flywheel and figure it into the final cost and then decide if this swap is right for you.
I'm not all that familiar with the Mercury engine but typically marine engines are high torque engines that operate mostly at lower RPM's.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by AP2k: What exactly needs to be machined on the marine crank? Just eyeballing them on the pic it looks like the journals line up. Are the journals a different size?

Look at the tail end of the marine crank. It is huge compared to the stock crank. The stroke is longer though.

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: Look at the tail end of the marine crank. It is huge compared to the stock crank. The stroke is longer though.

Ahh, I see it now.

You think these guys could be the poor man's SD4?

Where do you guys find these cranks at? All I can find are full engines!

The mercury engine is the same as the original duke from 77-78 and you can swap the cross flow head off a 79-80 duke used in the h-body and gain like 10-20hp. The original iron duke looks just like the mercury duke and I do believe the block is exactly the same but my duke in my 78 monza has the standard chevy bellhousing bolt pattern. I thought about putting a 3.0 crank in mine but after I put a weber 32/36, 2.5 exhaust, port and polish, performance ignition and the small gains I was getting was hardly worth it so now I have a cosworth. If someone could figure out how to swap a ford cosworth out of the euro escort I think the fieroo would have another sbc slayer 4 banger.

I have had a 3.0 boat crank modified to fit the Fiero's block. But the rods are also a problem, the big end width for the rods in the 3.0 motor are just a little over an inch ( the 3.0 rods are only 5.7 inches long compaired to the 2.5, 6 inch rod length) while the 2.5 is around 0.9 inches and the SBC rod width is around 0.947 inches. So the rods have to special for the crank conversion. I'm building this motor for my circle track car, once I figure it out I will post it.

thats the info i was lookin for thanks 151!! where could you find a 5.7 rod with that journal size? or could you use the 6 inch rod that came with the 2.5 and find different pistons?

quote Where do you guys find these cranks at? All I can find are full engines!

The GM 3.0 is also used in forklifts and other industrial machines. I don't know how they compare internally to the marine engines, but externally they look the same and they have the SBC bolt pattern. Hyster has used them for years, and Toyota used them in some of their forklifts until just a few years ago. Just another source if you guys are looking for engines or parts.

Jon

quote Originally posted by crytical point: The mercury engine is the same as the original duke from 77-78 and you can swap the cross flow head off a 79-80 duke used in the h-body and gain like 10-20hp. The original iron duke looks just like the mercury duke and I do believe the block is exactly the same but my duke in my 78 monza has the standard chevy bellhousing bolt pattern. I thought about putting a 3.0 crank in mine but after I put a weber 32/36, 2.5 exhaust, port and polish, performance ignition and the small gains I was getting was hardly worth it so now I have a cosworth. If someone could figure out how to swap a ford cosworth out of the euro escort I think the fieroo would have another sbc slayer 4 banger.

A PFF member in Fresno CA. has done the Cosworth swap in a Fiero. BUT it is a race car and almost completely cut away. Not much of a car left at all. It is VERY light. I think he used it for Solo2? I think he used shark93726 as a screen name and had a buisness called 8shark.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...040223-2-042885.html


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[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-15-2007).]

The 5.7 rod will be to short unless you use the 3.0 pistons. In the past (and with my current motor) I used the stock crank and 350 chevy pistons and SBC small journal rods. On the stock crank the rod width on the big end is only around .9 of an inch so I narrowed the SBC rods to fit, however the 5.7 inch rods are still to short (the stock 2.5 rods are 6.0 in length). Try not to laugh to loud but what I did to increase the length of the rods in order to use the 350 pistons is I made one rod from two by cutting and welding the sections together to attain a length of 6.2. Now I not reccommending that others do this (this motor is in my circle track car) but this motor lasted all seanson and is still in in my racer. The only reanson I fooling around with the 3.0 crank conversion is to hopefully to find more power. I most likely will make up a set of welded rods based off the 3.0 marine items.

the marine engine is the original iron duke and it had a rep for being indestructable .i think the main reason to use this engine would be to turbo it and not have to worry about blowing up the internals .and since you already have the adapter kit ,why not try it .i would like to see how a swap like this would work out .

quote Originally posted by wftb: the marine engine is the original iron duke and it had a rep for being indestructable .i think the main reason to use this engine would be to turbo it and not have to worry about blowing up the internals .and since you already have the adapter kit ,why not try it .i would like to see how a swap like this would work out .

Isnt the stock CR around 8-8.2:1? That should be low enough for even respectable boost, wouldnt it?

i dont know the spec on that but being a non smog motor it is probably around 9.5:1,maybe higher .just guessing here though.

I seem to rememer that when GM switched to the swirl-flow heads in the Fiero they bumped up the compression ratio to 9:1 from some lower number. Then again, the head design might have been changed between the late 70s and now while still remaining with the loopflow head design so they could bump the CR higher than that.

the fiero 2.5 is 9:1 boost would blow it up.. you would need a different piston or head design.

I have an original duke that will take that crank no problem and it will be for sale soon and I can get a crossflow head for it from the local scrap yard. The original duke IS indestructable trust me I have tried running it on 2 quarts of oil, methanol, extreme rich/lean conditions, reving it to the max rpm for long periods of time, and extereme overheating (blown hose, hole in radiator). The engine has perfect compression and with in only 5 psi at most difference between cylinders and I have tried to kill it and it will not die. My father told me that if I blew the engine he would put a SBC in it so I had some incentive to destroy it but it is still as good as new and starts right up and gets 40-52 mpg city depending on the carb tune.

Well guys, I went last weekend and pulled the head off the engine and 2 of the cylinders are filled with water so I'm pretty sure this is a no go.

Why does that make a difference?

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Why does that make a difference?

Really! I mean if it's a marine engine it's used to a little water here and there right?

i hate bringing up an old thread but its better then making a new one. i have found a 3.0l engine for sale for cheap. i am consitering this swap along with others. here is what i am wondering what is the bellhouseing adapter kit specificly what des it do what parts are included and where/ how much are there and who makes the "best" (highest durablity) one

http://www.v8archie.com/v8Archie/home.htm

Norm

thanks and good to see another northwest fiero also would any other mods of the engine bay need to be done? has any one ever done this?

It shouldnt be much different than a SBC swap.

I would imagine exhaust and intake manifolds could be quite hard to come by, as the head components are setup to be water cooled.

So what are the HP and TQ ratings, and at what rpm, of a 3.0L marine engine ? Also the CR and cam specs?

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85 GT 3.4
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06
Unknown New 4T60/3.42

horse powers in the 130-140 range i dont know the tq (i know its really high) it uses and rv cam and redlines at around 5000
so basicly a reenfoced duke with more horse pwer due to displacement

quote Originally posted by Bremertonfiero: redlines at around 5000

Its rated at 4400-4800 RPM max cruising speed by Mercruiser.

if we assume the red line is 4800 and that it produces 120 horse you can find out the min TQ because
HP= TQ/5252X RPM (i belive this is right)

[This message has been edited by Bremertonfiero (edited 10-10-2008).]

I have heard there were some 160 horse marine engines.

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: I have heard there were some 160 horse marine engines.

There were (165 actually) but they came from a bigger Mercruiser 4 cylinder that was based off of half a Ford 460. They weren't anywhere near as reliable as the 120/140s.

yea the murcury 480s altho i dont think thoese will go in a car...

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: There is enough material there that could be machined down to what the stock crank is. I have heard that these cranks have been used past 10K rpm and survived in drag use.

Make sure you get it stress relieved after it is machined. Heavy machining will leave internal stresses inside the metal and it will change dimensions over time. Stress relieving is like a low temp temper that helps the atoms rearrange themselves to relieve the stress. Afterwards, light machining is done to get it to final dimensions.