Well, after much reading here and asking a few questions, I'm definitely committing to a 3800SC swap. It'll be going into my red 85GT equipped with the Muncie 4 speed.
Everything I have read points that going auto is the best way to go for supporting more HP, reliability, and fuel economy (I read 1550~ or so RPM at 55mph and know the Muncie turns more than this). I just really enjoy driving stick and I'm confident the 3800SC will be more than powerful enough for a daily driver after a few very basic upgrades.

My goals for the engine are simply a 3.5 or 3.4 inch pulley and free-flowing exhaust. Also I'll have the ECM programmed at FastFieros. I don't want to get into TOG or SLP headers because of problems clearing the shift linkage, and really don't have the skill to make a set of headers (I'm able to design from theory and such, but actually building them would be an issue. I can't even weld.) Therefore, I plan on getting the 1.5" WCF headers and having Performance Coatings coat them in their Satin Fresh Blast 2000 ceramic coating. This leads to my first question: After the headers, I'm planning on 2.5" single-outlet exhaust. Also I won't be running a Cat. Would it be worthwhile to move to 3"? Is either setup going to be free-flowing enough to support a 3.4 pulley without KR?

I'll most likely buy the engine from Ed Morad in Cleveland, since I live in Ohio. I'm shooting for an engine with 20k-40k miles on it.

Another key goal is minimizing the actual downtime on the Fiero. I'm talking a week long vacation in March and want it completed in that time. To achieve this:
I'll be working with my neighbor in his garage. He's a bit of a hobbyist-mechanic and should have access to an engine hoist.
I'll complete a good portion of the work before hand. I ordered a refurbished engine cradle from the Fiero Store and along with a tested Muncie 4 speed from the Fiero Factory (My tranny is acting up. High miles and unknown abuse from previous owners.) I ordered all poly mounts from West Coast Fiero and plan on having the engine, clutch/flywheel/pressure plate and tranny mounted along with headers before we even drop the stock cradle.

My second question regards the fuel pump. I can't find the write up where Loyde from Fast Fieros compares different pumps, but I remember the "Walbro 255". Would this work? http://www.injectedperforma...Product.aspx?ID=1635


Edit* 12-10-2007.
For anyone just now reading the thread:
I'm definitely not getting WCF headers as written above. I actually won't be using headers at all. Most likely Ported Exhaust manifolds.
I ended up selecting a 3800SC series III with 40k miles (instead of series II like I planned at first)

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 12-10-2007).]

The muncie has problems with 3rd gear just exploding, so not modding much is a good idea. A 3.4 and stock exhaust manifolds will be just fine. Stay away from a loyde pcm, they are scary and expensive. Set up your manifold back exhaust with 3 inch tube and call it good, you can get away with exhaust for about 200 bucks.

Start small and add on after you get a basic setup going, I have a feeling even that will be more than enough for you. Stay as far away from WCF as possible, the moutns are shady and their headers are the worse than stock exhaust with a 3 inch downpipe (have seen them, the stories are true).

The walbro pump you picked out is great. Just make sure it will install into the fiero (all you need is a small hunk of tubing)

Your fiero will be down for a bit longer than you would think, but if you get the cradle all set and ready to go, then you should be golden for getting it done in 2 weekends.

labor wise my neighbor works afternoons and I'll be on a total vacation. I will be able to work a straight 7 days on it, and he'll be there from about 7am til 2pm for 5 days straight. I hope the two of us can get it finished in a week. I'll get as much out of the way ahead of time though.

I'd like to get some more input on the WCF products. Some people say they're junk while others are happy. I'll put the weather stip for the decklid back in to prevent water from hitting the front header. Even if I dont go with WCF headers, I'll have the stock manifolds ceramic coated to reduce underhood temps. Also, a problem with stock exhaust:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/071510.html
In that thread he shows modification to the shift linkage to fit the stock exhaust, something I want to avoid. Custom fab takes time, something I'm going to be short on. I'd much rather go with something that has been done before and had most kinks worked out ahead of time. Also, performance wise how are 1.5" short tube headers with a 2.5" crossover worse than the stock manifolds?

Also, I'd agree Loyde's programming seems expensive. However, I sell electronics. I know exactly how you usually get what you pay for. I can't program an OBDII computer- I dont have the hardware/software/or knowledge. Loyde does. What am I supposed to do with the factory computer other than have it programmed by someone with experience?

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 11-16-2007).]

problems?

quote Here are some pictures showing zero clearance problems between the clutch arm and the exhaust. I has plenty of room as the pictures depect.

The shift links do not work with any exhaust, you need to mod them so they stick out a bit.

you replied before I finished editing my other post. Could you read my computer question and provide some feedback?
And I thought the WCF would fit any year fiero with out mods to the shift/select cables... AC lines are the only problem I read about

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 11-16-2007).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The muncie has problems with 3rd gear just exploding, so not modding much is a good idea. A 3.4 and stock exhaust manifolds will be just fine. Stay away from a loyde pcm, they are scary and expensive. Set up your manifold back exhaust with 3 inch tube and call it good, you can get away with exhaust for about 200 bucks. Start small and add on after you get a basic setup going, I have a feeling even that will be more than enough for you. Stay as far away from WCF as possible, the moutns are shady and their headers are the worse than stock exhaust with a 3 inch downpipe (have seen them, the stories are true). The walbro pump you picked out is great. Just make sure it will install into the fiero (all you need is a small hunk of tubing) Your fiero will be down for a bit longer than you would think, but if you get the cradle all set and ready to go, then you should be golden for getting it done in 2 weekends.

What a crok. My Supercharged Computer from Loyde has my car pulling the wheels off the ground. Many witnesses and I let many drive it to prove it. I agree with staying away from WCF as there customer service sucks weenies if you have a problem. The owner has one hell of a way to talk with folks and they make bad stuff. Hes a boat guy who figured he would get into Fieros. RIck

[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 11-16-2007).]

Dark Horizon, Why are you bashing Loyde? He has done more swap and has more info than you will ever have. Knock it off!

Here is a link to the first car that I worked on with a computer programmed by Loyde. His customer service is outstanding. Second to none! This car is for sale because he has to many Fieros and this Fiero is in Ohio.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/039846.html

[This message has been edited by 3.8 SC (edited 11-16-2007).]

good for you guys? I have opinions, if they differ from yours so what? state your own if you want, giving proof as to why your bench tunes from loyde work great would be nice also, as i have never seen one work at all like it should.

Why should I stop doing somthing just because? I dont understand why I cant voice my opinion of things, i even substantiate them with evidence and reasons for why I think the way I do? If you think I am wrong prove to me wrong go for it, but I have a feeling that it will not be that easy.

As far as the "pulling wheels off the ground" thats fairly impossible in many aspects unless your cutting low 1.3/1.4 60's.

The only think loyde has proven to have is dinked around with crap more, and proven to have a bigger tool box than I do. The fact of that is, anyone can screw around, make a pretty website, and paint things pretty, and he can do it for longer than I, but that does not allow him to pass off anything he says as fact. I will tell you right now that I have never lied or exaggerated on anything I have ever said about him or the things he does.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 11-16-2007).]

I will give you my car if it doesnt pop the wheels off the ground. Theres your proof but you have to bet something in return to show your ignornace. Rick

Geez peeps, calm the heck down. Everybody has opinions, and they're like armpits, they all stink to at least one person. Forums are about discussion. Coherent, polite discussion. Feel free to disagree, but don't bash other people because they have opinions.

------------------
1986 SE V6, stock, auto, fastback. GT Trim and Body panels.

Hey.

I'm planning the same swap, into an 85 Gt with the 4 spd., although no headers for me.

As far as I can tell, there aren't really a whole lot of options for PCM tuning besides Loyde, are there?

He's been doing it long enough, I think he'll be getting my trust and my business come this spring.

As far as mounts, would Purple Reign be the way to go?

The only thing that scares me is wiring and getting the flywheel right.

Sorry to hijack a bit, but these seem like universal issues with the 3800 SC swap.

-Jake

well i was in ricks car two weeks ago,and yes it will and did pull the wheels of the ground! we had people stopping us to find out what the car was and had for a motor,they seen the wheels come off the ground too! rick was kind enough to let me drive it,words cant describe the rush you get. I am a huge chevy v8 guy but after riding in ricks car it has made me think real hard on the 3800 swap
John.

First off, ryan aka darth fiero at GMtuners is by far your best bet for tuning, he has CORRECT software that he purchased a "tuner" license for, and can legally sell PCM's tuned with tunercats. He has also been tuning GM stuff for many many years now, and he can also offer obd1 tuning if you wanted to go that route. He is also MUCH cheaper than loyde.

ZZP, intense, and a few random guys over at club gp will do it, but the legality is a bit subjective there. ZZP has a tuner contract with HP tuners, so you can expect a decent setup there.

Or you can just run a stock 98 (or 97 if your into the junk whole gen1 hardware) PCM like me and not worry about it. I have a tuner, but its only for performance reasons, not running correctly reasons.

There really is no tricks or hints to tuning, you could do it yourself with HPtuners for $500, and that is BY FAR the best idea, these bench tunes are never anything fancy.

The last problem with mail order tuning, is the fact that every car runs different, in different temperatures and elevations, so you really need to tune the car to the PCM, there are no tricks that need to be done to make it work in a fiero.

I heard Ryan isn't doing OBD II anymore, is this the case?

I'll be using a 99 engine, PCM and wiring harness, if plans at this point work out. So I really just need the auto trans and (possibly?) passkey stuff taken out right? I'm not going for a full out tune, just a basic edit and work from there.

I also have to ask what trans Supercharged is running. I have a feeling if I try that with my 4 spd I'll be swapping trannies before i know it.

I have to say the 3800 guys are certainly VERY helpful, and there's lots of discussion on this.

--Jake

Ryan still tunes for OBD2. He did my 98 S/C 3800 Riviera PCM for me a month or two back. Havent got the car running yet, but I'm sure it will run good once I do. He was more than helpful after tuning my 3.1 swap for me. I would definitely recommend him for tuning.

Ryan is a sharp guy.
Id like some video of your wheels off the ground. That would be freakin cool to see!
but before that... is there a wager? I say bet eachother 20 bucks to start with!

OJOEIHGOIFHSDIFGSOUDFHGEWFW

You do not need the trans codes removed! Just ground the trans wires and it will be in drive(or neutral, dont remember) by default

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The muncie has problems with 3rd gear just exploding, so not modding much is a good idea. A 3.4 and stock exhaust manifolds will be just fine.

Stuff like this kills me. My Muncie has not exploded the third gear yet, and that was after three and a half years of spirited daily driving. I will agree that the autos ARE a better choice for durability, buy stop making it sound like EVERY munice explodes behind the SC3800... they do not. Some prefer the muncie for a "more sports car feel"... as do I.

I recently finished a few mods to increase HP, and am confident that the Muncie will be just fine.

The rumors like the Muncie are what get people messed up or the Loyde tuning stuff. The reality on trans damage is on worn trans or 80% of the people who do not know how to drive. They drive a car hard and up/down there speed like made thinking there in a movie destroying things. Allot of folks do not know how to down shift either and I have never done it on my car,although I do not jump on it in overdrive as it doesn't react properly. I remember when I was building this back when there were not allot of them done as of yet I was told 4 different axle set ups to use and all were wrong. You would swear everyone was telling the truth on there life. I had to get into the secret society { hahahaha} to get the real info and they were correct. I found there are allot of Internet rumor spreaders who want to feel important when they tell what they think they know. This is very harmful and can cost folks allot of money.

As for trans, mine is a 4T60E HD you know the ones that are not real HD's and had all the recalls and were not worth crap as many rumors here tell you. I honestly think GM stopped making them as they were to good and cost to much money to make. What really is the reason I don't know but I know this thing screams. We also put all of the valve stems on the letter B for all 4 wheels and I have been spinning the rears on the rims. Stryker even seen this after the rides we took that day. The tires are Bf Goodrich G-force. If you go thru the above thread you can see a link to the build and some of the tricks we did. Rick

All though WCF in the past had had there fair share of issues they have came a long way. I have ordered mounts from them recently and the quality/shipping was top notch with no issues. If you want the exhuast to dump in the stock location then WCF headers are the way to go but I would recommend going with a set of coated PEMS with a nice 3 inch mandel exhaust.


There are issues with the 4 speed and exhaust but doing a search will show you several ways to get that little issue fixed. I can think of atleast 4 Threads on here that has good pictures and almost step by step on how to make the 4 speed setup work.


My PCM is tuned by Loyde and has been for several years and I have never had a problem with it. He does good work and like others have said, his customer service is top notch. You will find only one person on the Forum talking down about his PCMs. Do a search under his name and you will see he is just out to make trouble.


The pump you picked will work fine and supply plenty of fuel.

spinning the tires on the rims? i've always heard people saying that. yet i had an 88mm turbo powered 4.6 dohc mustang. almost 4 figures to the ground. it wouldn't do that with M/T drag radials. i don't understand how that could happen unless the tires severely off in correct sizes. has anybody else had this happen?

Nope and never lost air to date. Many have also seen this and checked it after a ride to see they moved. Loyde did a number when programming this computer and I get very little wheel spin as it launches and follows thru instead of pure raw wasted power on take offs. It pushes it perfectly accelerating strong and correctly. The tires grip well also. I just took it out as it is gloomy here in Cleveland and the snow started to drop lightly as I almost got home. I went to the bank about 6 miles from home and got on it a few times. I was shaking when I was at the tellers window slightly as this car will do to you. It puts the fear in you when you haven't gotten on it for awhile. Rick

why dont you post a scan of this great program?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The muncie has problems with 3rd gear just exploding,

Can I ask where you got this information from??

On my original 86 SE Fiero I had a V-6 4-spd that lasted 163,000 miles and with mods it was running about 170hp.
I now have a 4-spd in my recent 86 SE and it is hooked to a V-8 with 355hp.405 torque.
I have had no problems in 3 years and it has been on drag strips and road courses as well as the occasional "spirited" driving.

I have never heard of the 4-spd muncie having this issue. I know the 5-spd getrags have 3rd gear synchro's that tend to wear faster when abused. But I have never heard of 3rd gears exploding.

I would think a 3800SC with slight mods would be fine with any Fiero manual transaxle.

Wow, I'm glad I got so many replies so quickly. Back to my first few posts...
-Fuel pump is fine
-Sounds like I'm screwed as far as shift linkage going stock or WCF and will have modify it
-Sounds like Loyde or Ryan for programming... I'm still leaning toward Loyde
-I'll ask again about performance... how are the stock exhaust manifolds better than 1.5" Short tube headers and the 2.5" crossover that come on WCF headers? What are the inside dimensions of the stock manifolds? I'm sure I'll be happy either way, but I did want the exaust in stock location and I'm worried about KR with a 3.4" pulley and stock exhaust. Adding 4 psi of boost without doing some type of supporting upgrades just doesnt sound like a great idea, but I've never owned a 3800SC so I can't say.

zi_gravedigger - Thank you for your consideration of uses my services in the future. It is unfortunate that PFF is plagued by people like DarkHorizon ( AKA Scott Wolforth ) …. He came into the Fiero community as 19 year old enthusiast and has turned into a post troll when it comes to my name and professionalism. If he could back up his trash talk with some offering of service, it would be a different story. At this point it amounts to an opinion from a lost little kid trying his best to fit in somewhere in a community. He has tried his local MI forums for general racing and was not accepted there either. His circle of friends amounts to him holding hands with himself and looking at the empty circle in front of him. I wish him the best in trying to learn more about OBDII computers, and 3800 engines in general. If you want to email to me without these interruptions of out burst from DH, please feel free to. One comment that you made about the ‘cost’ of PCM work is something that is what it is… at $125, the shipping is included. The phone calls are usually many that go beyond PCM, and I have to say, I already work 12 hours a day 7 days a week on all these Fiero projects for people. If you go to www.ZZPerformance.com and go to the PCM selection area, you will note that BASIC programming is $89.99 …. Now the typical Fiero install is not a base project… if you do a VS cam, 42 lb inj, and the usual delete EVAP, EGR, 2nd O2 sensor, the price is all the sudden $154.99 plus shipping… for me, its still the same $125 includes shipping… for this thread however, anyone in the future that reads this thread, the price is $90 includes shipping. All you have to do is mention you read the trash talk about DarkHorizon to get the discounted price.

If DarkHorizon took the time to offer some service as to the ‘issues’… the “problems”… the ‘scary” … details of my PCM programming, we could all get educated from this 20 year old that has a whole 12 months worth of reading on 3800Pro.com and HPTuners forums… He does not have a valid Powrtuner, because he does not have access to the DHP forums. As to contracts / licences for myself ? I happen to own the following and can tune any of the following ….


HPTuners Serial version
1997 3.4 DOHC … Chevrolet
1997 -2004 Grand Prix ( all engines )
2003 Truck
2002 Camaro
2001 Bonneville

What I can BUY with credits on my MPVI unit is all GM cars and trucks I have about $4000 in credits on my MPVI

I own 3 DHP Powrtuners

I own 2 TunerCats with support for all v8 LSx engines.

I own EFILive with support on V8 LSx 2000-02

So, as you can see, I am pretty sure my investment of about $10,000 in tuner hardware and software is covered as LEGAL to tune what I want, when I want.

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 11-17-2007).]

I am running stock manifolds and if you look at them there built pretty well. I, with helped from 3.8SC put a 2.5 inch exhaust from Tubing parts bought at Summit thru HyperV6 and built mine with no emissions as Ohio has the Collectors plates. I have seen many work headers in but say the amount of gain isn't allot. You can ad horsepower all day long but you need to get the torque first to be real happy. Anytime the weather is nice and you want to drive up you are welcome to drive mine to see the mod's and how it runs unless it sells by then. Rick

I was in the manual swap car with my friend each time thrid gear stripped itself out, 3 times in total. One of the transmissions was completely rebuilt using a transmission we found in a crate at a swap meet, unknown what car it was from. Each time third gear just stripped out when we shifted into it, it was never really abused going into third, but it happend more than one time, so i really dont know what to say other than third gear is weak in 4speeds, just like second is weak in isuzus.

quote Originally posted by zi_gravedigger: Wow, I'm glad I got so many replies so quickly. Back to my first few posts... -Fuel pump is fine -Sounds like I'm screwed as far as shift linkage going stock or WCF and will have modify it -Sounds like Loyde or Ryan for programming... I'm still leaning toward Loyde -I'll ask again about performance... how are the stock exhaust manifolds better than 1.5" Short tube headers and the 2.5" crossover that come on WCF headers? What are the inside dimensions of the stock manifolds? I'm sure I'll be happy either way, but I did want the exaust in stock location and I'm worried about KR with a 3.4" pulley and stock exhaust. Adding 4 psi of boost without doing some type of supporting upgrades just doesnt sound like a great idea, but I've never owned a 3800SC so I can't say.

I will tell you about the WCF headers from personal application experience.. not some observation from reading PFF and other forums like DarkHorizon ( aka Scott Wolforth )….

While WCF has experienced high turn over of employees over the years, it is unfortunate that this causes inconsistent workmanship, and less development time on new products that might serve the 3800 / Fiero community.

The headers ‘use’ to have problems with cracking, and poor sealing at the crossover joint. I tried so many different types of gaskets in there, it was just blowing the gaskets all to pieces. However, the worse issue is the size of the tubing. The base header is 1.5 inch tubes. This is not even good for a stock engine. The restriction is to great for a SC engine. Put it on a NA motor, and you are fine. The next up is the 1.625, but this starts getting pricy for a uncoated header, and you add coating, and at $950, I would be more toward the SLP setup. WCF does offer a 1.75 also, and this gets you in at over $1050 easy….

The STOCK manifolds were compared many many years ago on Club Grand Prix against TOG, SLP… it was found that a stock manifold was .8 slower compared to SLP, and about a second slower than TOG. Port the stock manifolds, and you get within .4 - .6 of the same performance as SLP or TOG on 1.625… Put a TOG 1.75 on however, and nothing beats the flow of it. However again……. TOG is out of business. The TOG’s are not sealing well anymore from the last batch that was made had defects in joint mating. The SLP’s have always had issues with leaking because they use a slip joint with a clamp…

Today, I use only stock manifolds.. I offer them coated with ceramic coatings from the best company ( Jet-Hot )… and I offer them ported and coated as well for those that really start wanting a lot of mod’s… However, everything comes with a price, and usually that dictates what direction you go, and how much you spend.

Loyde

http://www.fastfieros.com/projects

Loyde, i have seen the WCF headers IN PERSON OFF THE CAR, and they are not worth the price... I have never tuned them but I have spent many hours working with typical w-body headers, and they just do not measure up.

quote The base header is 1.5 inch tubes. This is not even good for a stock engine. The restriction is to great for a SC engine.

Now last time I checked thats EXCATLY what I said so why are you talking **** about me still? I dont just sit around and read **** all day loyde so leave me alone!

Quit attacking me and let me say what I have to say.

DH you started on him first so set back and take your medicine and let the thread get back on track. You stated how you felt and it is understood. Got to love it. Rick

quote Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: The owner has one hell of a way to talk with folks and they make bad stuff. Hes a boat guy who figured he would get into Fieros. RIck

You're right, Chris is a boat guy that got into Fieros in June of 1986 when he walked by a Pontiac dealer and decided to become an owner. He has been making parts since and is still an original owner of his Fiero, which in not often found here on the forum.

------------------
Recanizin' Flat-Buns Since 2001

Eric Nelson
Internet Sales Manager
Power Ford Valencia
nelsone@autonation.com

+1 for Loyde at fast fieros. The service that you buy with his product is the best. I haven't gone through Ryan, but the competition is so tight, I doubt he would still be in business if he didn't at least come close. Loyde I believe worked for Haltech (http://www.haltech.com/) so I'd say its safe to assume he knows what he's doing. The 4 speed is a good choice for the 3800, although the 5 speed is a tad better. The fuel economy is actually better (from what I've read) with a stock 3800 on a 5 speed nets around 32mpg. Transmission life is going to be directly linked to the right foot. Hard shifting, 5k rpm side step clutch dropping, and putting these transmissions through instantaneous torque will prob result in gear fragments. A 3.4 inch pulley will need a couple of mods, not so much for the 3.5. Theres a write up over at clubgp on what you need;
http://www.clubgp.com/newfo...&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

As far as the fuel pump, you might want to check your vendor. There was actually a recent write up of Chinese copies. May not seem like much, but they tend to skimp on the coils inside the motor. Less coils means less copper (making it cheaper), but it also means the motor requires more current and will run hotter (not good inside a gas tank )
I got mine from my last swap from here; http://www.jdsperformance.c...fcmd=item&inmake=301

The biggest thing is going to be your wiring harness. Grab a 12 pack, throw on some music, and concentrate on what you're doing. If you're willing to wait, Loyde makes harnesses as well. They have a premium, but if you decide to do yours, you'll find out why they're worth it. Its not hard to make them, its just intensive. A week is pushing it, so make sure you have ALL your ducks in a row. Its not that it will take that long to do everything, its just you might realize you need something you don't have and as such, will need to wait for it to get in. Engine mounts, axles, fuel pump, mounting brackets (torque strut, alt, etc)

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I was in the manual swap car with my friend each time thrid gear stripped itself out, 3 times in total. One of the transmissions was completely rebuilt using a transmission we found in a crate at a swap meet, unknown what car it was from. Each time third gear just stripped out when we shifted into it, it was never really abused going into third, but it happend more than one time, so i really dont know what to say other than third gear is weak in 4speeds, just like second is weak in isuzus.

I think that based on what you typed above a better statement would be "based on my experiences, the four speed...." Using a blanket statement that all Muncies explode their third gear under load is a bunch of undocumented crap. There are plenty of them that are doing just fine.

Anyone can blow up any manual trans behind a 3800sc. Its up to the driver to keep the tranny together. Not knowing how to drive doesn't break or keep it in once piece, knowing how to not blow it up, keeps it from blowing up. Driving like a maniac 17yr old is hell on these transmissions. Dragging the car often is hell on these transmissions. Most of the people that do these swaps, however, drive the car from point a to point b with occasional spirited driving here and there and will track once or twice to see what it will do, or as a group event. In this case, the 4spd trans will suit most people just fine. Avoid no-lift to shift, aggressive gear changes, and extended powerslides and the majority of the people will never have to swap out a trans.

BTW, I'm on my 4th or 5th one so far..

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 11-17-2007).]

no one answered my spinning of the tires on the rims

quote Originally posted by Billybo455: spinning the tires on the rims? i've always heard people saying that. yet i had an 88mm turbo powered 4.6 dohc mustang. almost 4 figures to the ground. it wouldn't do that with M/T drag radials. i don't understand how that could happen unless the tires severely off in correct sizes. has anybody else had this happen?

The answer is yes.. it happens all the time at a drag strip.. do you notice that racers mark the valve stem on the tires? it is for alot of different reasons, but one of them is to know if the tire slips on the wheel because it will throw the balance off. The tire weights dont usually move with the tire, so the weights are now in the wrong place.

Street tires can slip when air pressures are at their improper levels.

Street tires can slip when a tire has been flat a long time and rust has developed on the wheel rim, and you air it up and trap all the rust parts in between.

As to proper tires on proper wheels with proper air pressures, it is unlikely that you will get enough traction on the street type pavement to cause tire to wheel slipage.

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 11-17-2007).]

I wish I could fit the pacesetter headers without gutting the whole trunk. It seems ZZP's powerlog, plus PEM for the rear and ceramic coating will be $475. The 1.75" pacesetters are like $450 coated. I didn't realize the WCF headers were actually smaller than the stock manifolds. I've dropped that idea for good, as their custom "hand made" headers are too expensive.

Thanks RandomTask for the heads up about the fuel pump.

SuperchargedV6- I would love to go for a ride sometime. It's just a matter of attending class full time and working on the weekends...
Yes my week long vacation will be my spring break... and I've been with my company long enough to earn 5 days of vacation per year, so I'll still have a paycheck...

You can always cut and weld the pacesetters to fit.

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: You can always cut and weld the pacesetters to fit.

does anyone have any pics of this being done? Not that I couldnt figure it out... it's just I'm worried about running out of time if something doesnt work out.
And now that I think about it, how is the routing of the crossover tube? If it's like the TOGs then the clutch arm and slave cylinder will need modified and I'd abandon the idea all together. I should probably go with PEM/powerlog for the level of mods I'm aiming for... rather low

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 11-17-2007).]