I haven't ever done it, and don't know if anyone has either. I was just saying that it's a possibility

quote Originally posted by bornobsessed: I heard Ryan isn't doing OBD II anymore, is this the case? I'll be using a 99 engine, PCM and wiring harness, if plans at this point work out. So I really just need the auto trans and (possibly?) passkey stuff taken out right? I'm not going for a full out tune, just a basic edit and work from there. I also have to ask what trans Supercharged is running. I have a feeling if I try that with my 4 spd I'll be swapping trannies before i know it. I have to say the 3800 guys are certainly VERY helpful, and there's lots of discussion on this. --Jake

I have the 4 speed Muncie in my 3800sc II. Darth did the chip as OBDI and got it correct the first time. I am 98% sure that Ryan now does OBDII. here is his link: http://dtcc.cz28.com I did have to mod the shift brackets at the tranny so as to avoid interference between the cables and the cross over pipe. It was a little flaky to design but I don't have any issues with it. My plan is to eliminate that crossover and go back to the stock setup on the shift brackets. The main reason is I don't like the way the pipe heats up the TB. I have talked with Spintec about them putting together a muffler that will fit the Fiero that has two in and two out. The plan is to mount the O2 in the muffler.

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

[This message has been edited by ohio86se (edited 11-18-2007).]

quote Originally posted by zi_gravedigger: I wish I could fit the pacesetter headers without gutting the whole trunk. It seems ZZP's powerlog, plus PEM for the rear and ceramic coating will be $475. The 1.75" pacesetters are like $450 coated. I didn't realize the WCF headers were actually smaller than the stock manifolds. I've dropped that idea for good, as their custom "hand made" headers are too expensive. ...

Just get you a set of coated PEMS and build you a nice exahust off them.

Crap. I talked to Ed today and he said over the last 3 days they've sold about 15 of the L67s... nothing availible at the moment below 74k miles...

I'll try back next week. Hopefully have a little better luck.

Well I've most recently started making headers, but only for the manual cars. I'll start looking into doing the auto powered cars.
For your mount solutions, see sig

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MINNESOTA MAFIA Real men get blown
87 GT MP-112 powered, 3800 Supercharged on 19's____88 GT T-top 1 of very few, 119.4 miles
87 GT custom______90 Grand prix STE Turbo_____98 ZX750R
IF YOU AIN'T BREAKING STUFF..................IT AIN'T MODDED ENOUGH
Best Fiero mounts available https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/062388.html

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Well I've most recently started making headers, but only for the manual cars. I'll start looking into doing the auto powered cars. For your mount solutions, see sig

Need any test mules to try out your new headers? I have pondering the idea of doing another manuel 3800SC into a 88 I have. I am sure you have someone already to test them but if not, let me know.

Purple, any more info on the headers?
And unfortunately I've already ordered WCF poly mounts... I read through a bit of your thread and I hope they're good enough for my entry-level swap. I'm not shooting for 400ft-lbs of torque. Just a basic pulley swap and free-enough flowing exhaust to support it.

I hope to hit 240hp at the wheels, which I doubt will be hard to do. Really I could care less what my actual output will be- shooting for 240 is just for bragging rights and comparison to other cars. It'll still be a blast to drive if I fall 30hp short or if I hit all the way to 260... and that's all that matters.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zi_gravedigger:

I wish I could fit the pacesetter headers without gutting the whole trunk. It seems ZZP's powerlog, plus PEM for the rear and ceramic coating will be $475. The 1.75" pacesetters are like $450 coated. I didn't realize the WCF headers were actually smaller than the stock manifolds. I've dropped that idea for good, as their custom "hand made" headers are too expensive. QUOTE]

You need to recheck your pricing. I just received my coated power log, crossover and ported manifold from ZZP for about $390. Quality product as well. The biggest restriction on the stock set up is that rear manifold. Huge difference when comparing stock to the Plog. You're not modding enough to warrant headers at this point. Only consider them if you plan to make more intense mods down the road.

Darth Fiero-Ryan Gick-Sinister Performance does PCM re-programming. I sent mine out and had it back from him in 6 days. And it was cheaper than Loyde. I agree with Dark Horizon, Loyde may be good, but he is not as good as he says he is. WCF-I don't like them, poor customer service, and tech was not very helpful. As for headers- I am using '98 3.8L Camaro headers, if you don't run A/C then they will work fine-they interfere with the A/C compressor. Also I don't have to deal with modifying the exhaust to clear the 4-speed man shift and selector cables.

thanks for the info Fieroboy
Lambo- You're right. I forgot to mention I was counting the ceramic crossover pipe alonge with the PEM and Plog and coating.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Need any test mules to try out your new headers? I have pondering the idea of doing another manuel 3800SC into a 88 I have. I am sure you have someone already to test them but if not, let me know.

Actually, they are already running around in cars. Read on

quote Originally posted by zi_gravedigger: Purple, any more info on the headers? And unfortunately I've already ordered WCF poly mounts... I read through a bit of your thread and I hope they're good enough for my entry-level swap. I'm not shooting for 400ft-lbs of torque. Just a basic pulley swap and free-enough flowing exhaust to support it. I hope to hit 240hp at the wheels, which I doubt will be hard to do. Really I could care less what my actual output will be- shooting for 240 is just for bragging rights and comparison to other cars. It'll still be a blast to drive if I fall 30hp short or if I hit all the way to 260... and that's all that matters.

Initally I had no intention of revealing this car or it's headers until the owner chimed in. The following pics are of a car I built for a guy in Chicago. It's an 88 GT 5 speed awaiting bodywork. As you might see the headers were designed to come from the firewall bank and mate with the trunk side & exit into the muffler in the stock location WITHOUT modifying the trunk. They were built in a 2 piece design so they can be removed with little disassembly of the car & less connections to leak. I used 1.75" primary's and 2.5" piping, all mandrel bent, MIG welded, Ceramic coated. I installed them for $700 and $300 for coating. Now I hadnt planned on "building headers" but if there is enough interest in this style, I may be able to reduce costs.

My only issue is I have not tried this on an auto yet, cause there is a LOT LESS room to get the exit pipe to come to the stock muffler location without coming too close to the trans range switch & trunk wall.

The first pic shows the firewall side done & test fit, and the begininng of the trunk side



This pic shows the headers completed & installed ( from a distant view )


This one show the up close detail how the "Y" section comes together & the mandrel bend exits toward the stock muffler location with no modifying of the trunk.


Crossover section detail


This is all I have of the underside the exhaust I already built & installed.



Final product


I'll start a thread on the build of this car soon. This build went a little over budget and over on time ( but hey, what project doesnt )
He started with the request of a 3800SC swap & Cam & porting, to " I wanna hang in front of a stock C-6 " ............O.K. I said it would take a little longer & MORE money. But in the end, you can ask the customer how happy he was when he picked it up & drove it home. That car was stupid fast.

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 11-21-2007).]

PERFECT exhaust setup PR, that is just GREAT. I am way jealous of those things, those suckers would be worth the $1000 if WCF could sell something that nice. The way the exhaust is setup is just what 99.9% of all the 3800 swappers on the forum are looking for, I think i see room for cats in that setup even...

What are the dimensions on the muffler?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: PERFECT exhaust setup PR, that is just GREAT. I am way jealous of those things, those suckers would be worth the $1000 if WCF could sell something that nice. The way the exhaust is setup is just what 99.9% of all the 3800 swappers on the forum are looking for, I think i see room for cats in that setup even... What are the dimensions on the muffler?

Thanks. I could probably get the cost down to $800 to $900 coated. The muffler is pretty much a shortened flowmaster. I should look into the cat issue since I didnt really leave any room for that. But these cars are hitting 20+ years and will only need collector plates in most states.

Is there anything different about the Series III swap compared to the Series II? I'm pretty familiar from reading here and other sources about the Series II SC swap, but it seems finding a rather low mileage Series II is a bit of a challenge.

Also, what would be a good source for flywheel/ sintered iron clutch / pressureplate? I was planning on WCF but I know they're pricy and I'm rather pissed that a set of motor mounts has taken a month and hasnt even shipped yet.

I was looking at Steel Flywheel for the Series II 3800: http://www.westcoastfiero.c...rsion_flywheels.html
Stage 4 9-11/16" Cindered Iron Disk http://www.westcoastfiero.com/clutch/clutch.html
and the associated pressure plate, which I cant even find a URL for on their website.

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 11-27-2007).]

your making a mistake dealing with WCF and expecting everything to be brand new, cheap, and at your door in 3 days.

You can make a flywheel in a day making a few trips around town, for alot less than WCF will sell it for. 3800 flywheel, standard fiero clutch, machined down flywheel to .840.

i have the pacesetters on my fiero and i have a trunk that's about 13 inches deep. my exhaust looks pretty damn neat if i say so myself :P

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: your making a mistake dealing with WCF and expecting everything to be brand new, cheap, and at your door in 3 days. You can make a flywheel in a day making a few trips around town, for alot less than WCF will sell it for. 3800 flywheel, standard fiero clutch, machined down flywheel to .840.

I'd say the same thing. You can get a stock 3800 flywheel for $50 to $100, get it shaved to .640 then match-balanced to the 3800 flexplate, pick up Flywheel bolts- part # 24505092. Order a Spec Stage 3 or a Centerforce Dual Friction for a Fiero 2.8 and your done.

Is WCF still having issues?

I was planning on going to work for them after they move their shop

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: stock 3800 flywheel for $50 to $100, get it shaved to .640

huh don't you mean .840? or is the .640 something new??

rideZ go work there and "clean the place up" for us

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: your making a mistake dealing with WCF and expecting everything to be brand new, cheap, and at your door in 3 days. You can make a flywheel in a day making a few trips around town, for alot less than WCF will sell it for. 3800 flywheel, standard fiero clutch, machined down flywheel to .840.

I knew WCF wasn't going to be cheap, and wasn't expecting 3 days either. I was guessing a couple weeks at most. I got an engine cradle from the Fiero Store- it was on back order. They called me the day I placed the order letting me know it'd be two or three weeks- and it arrived three weeks later. WCF? No communication for 2 weeks, a reply to an email saying just one more week, and nothing since and still no mounts. Seriously a couple of motor mounts should have been sitting on a shelf ready to go- not require a month lead time.

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: Is WCF still having issues? I was planning on going to work for them after they move their shop

Yes, with Chris West in and out of the hospital with chemo it has been trying, at best, to keep up with the orders. I am currently trying to re-arrange my schedule up here at the dealership so that I can give a hand on the weekends. At least Chris finally took our advice and after 7 years, is finally closing the doors on Sundays.

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Recanizin' Flat-Buns Since 2001

Eric Nelson
Internet Sales Manager
Power Ford Valencia
nelsone@autonation.com

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: I'd say the same thing. You can get a stock 3800 flywheel for $50 to $100, get it shaved to .640 then match-balanced to the 3800 flexplate, pick up Flywheel bolts- part # 24505092. Order a Spec Stage 3 or a Centerforce Dual Friction for a Fiero 2.8 and your done.

I haven't read much good about the Spec clutches... quickly I'll use this as a reference https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/086808.html
I was pretty set on the idea of single plate sintered iron rather than dual friction clutch. Is there a reason I should'nt be?

Also, I'd have to do some major footwork to find a machine shop willing to deal with me. Small town- and the last time I had a local auto machine shop work on a fiero part they totally f****d it up. It was simple- Front wheel hub- cut off the rotor, machine hub so that it fits SNUGLY inside this Grand Am break rotor. I dropped off both hubs, both rotors, and come back to pick them up and find almost 1/16th inches of play between the wheel hub and grand am rotors. I was angry. Unable to afford replacements, I stuck them on my 86GT (My other Fiero- not the 85 in this thread) and put up with the vibrations of out-of-balance hubs. I have the intention of fixing it, but since I don't drive that Fiero much I'm letting it be for now. I don't want to think what would happen if I let them get ahold of expensive internal parts, like a custom machined/balanced flywheel.


Edit: Sorry to hear Chris has chemo and all... but it wouldn't hurt to email a customer (with a realistic date... I've been told "by the end of the week" twice already with no results) as to his order instead of letting him wonder where the hell his mounts are at.

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 11-28-2007).]

Perfectly understandable.

quote Originally posted by revin: huh don't you mean .840? or is the .640 something new?? rideZ go work there and "clean the place up" for us

Yeah my bad

quote Originally posted by zi_gravedigger: I haven't read much good about the Spec clutches... quickly I'll use this as a reference https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/086808.html I was pretty set on the idea of single plate sintered iron rather than dual friction clutch. Is there a reason I should'nt be?

I saw that thread but the failure issue seems to be sporadic. With no proven trail of problems or defects, I would have to say it is an issue with improper installation, and driver abuse or driving habits.

I guess I would just be prepared for the rigidness of a sintered iron disc, and chattering.

I only mentioned the dualfriction cause "MOBILE" has one and has had great success while he has relentlessly beat his car.

I beat the hell out of my spec stage 3 and have approx 30k on it. I drag race, autox, and just all out have fun. I'm not easy on this thing, clutch dumps, 2nd gear launches, etc. I'm really impressed it still there holding up, wish i could say the same for the handful of transmissions i've been though, lol. The problem is that people can order spec after spec and don't bother posting anything because it just does its job and works. You only hear about the 5-10 (for example) that have had issues. I agree that there shouldn't be as many failures as brought up on here, but that number is out of thousands.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I beat the hell out of my spec stage 3 and have approx 30k on it. I drag race, autox, and just all out have fun. I'm not easy on this thing, clutch dumps, 2nd gear launches, etc. I'm really impressed it still there holding up, wish i could say the same for the handful of transmissions i've been though, lol. The problem is that people can order spec after spec and don't bother posting anything because it just does its job and works. You only hear about the 5-10 (for example) that have had issues. I agree that there shouldn't be as many failures as brought up on here, but that number is out of thousands.

x2, my manual setup has killed 4 transmissions and the clutch looks new.

Well, maybe I will go for the Spec stage 3. Not that expensive really, and there seems to be a lot of support for it dispite that one thread of failures. I still need to find a machine shop for the flywheel though...

quote Originally posted by zi_gravedigger: Well, maybe I will go for the Spec stage 3. Not that expensive really, and there seems to be a lot of support for it dispite that one thread of failures. I still need to find a machine shop for the flywheel though...

Worst case senario, you just find someone like me to do it cheap, and properly & all it really costs extra is shipping.

quote by Ed: I have an 80k series II and I have a 40k 05 impala series II coming. also have a few series III here. 44k and 60k

I received this from Ed today. My question is should I go with the series III 44k if it's within budget? Is there anything I should be aware of for wiring/fitting/etc? He mentioned something about 05 and up using by-wire on some vehicles (I'm assuming throttle control, electronic throttle control rather than the cable as used on the fiero?) Info quickly would be appreciated as it's hard to find these with the lower-mileage

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 12-02-2007).]

It all depends on what build you want to do, a series 3 swap with lower miles or a s2 with a bit more miles. I personally would go with a cheap s2, because you wont need to do hardly anything to get it ready to go in the car. A s3 requires you to do the drive by wire conversion, and you will need to run a series2 pcm on it.

post not needed

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 12-10-2007).]

First major update in a while.
I have a deposit down on a 40k series 3 motor from Ed. Waiting for my uncle's truck so I can go pick it up. Got a series 2 throttle body and PCM and fuel rails/injectors to go with it.
Also this weekend I was able to make a trip home. Waiting for me was the muncie 4 speed from FieroFactory, refurb engine cradle from Fiero Store, the WCF engine and transmission mounts, a new clutch slave cylinder (previous owner cross-threaded the bleeder on the current one), and front/rear cradle bolts. I didn't have time to do more than examine everything. The WCF mount's don't look bad really, and I'm impressed with the powder coated engine cradle. Nothing special about the transmission other than I need to clean it up and paint it.

Just wanted to clear this up...

quote Originally posted by ohio86se: Darth did the chip as OBDI and got it correct the first time. I am 98% sure that Ryan now does OBDII. here is his link: http://dtcc.cz28.com

I have supported 1998-2003 OBD-2 3800 (and other V6) applications for well over a year now; but have been working with these systems much longer than that. I have also been doing OBD-2 for V8's. Prices for OBD-2 reprogrammings are currently $80.00 for a completely CUSTOM reprogram. No "shelf" programs are sold by me; so you can be assurred what you are getting is for YOUR car. Other tuning options are available. Contact me for more information.

Thanks for the mention, ohio86se.

-ryan
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power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions | www.gmtuners.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-17-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Information -ryan

Just wanted to add that Ryan got my chip great on the first try, and has been more than helpful with all questions and emails I've had. Since my mods, he has also been there to help with everything tuning related.

The WCF mounts


The powder coated engine cradle and 4 speed


The 3800SC series III from Ed after a little cleaning. 40k


Painted the supercharger. I want to paint the valve covers to match but did not have time.
I love it... very shiny. 3 coats of high temp red and 5 coats of high temp clear.

[This message has been edited by zi_gravedigger (edited 12-29-2007).]

why is the DBW throttle body still on there?

Because I was an idiot and left all my tools in Toledo, picked up the engine and '98 GPT throttle body, MAF, fuel rails, injectors and PCM in Cleveland, hauled it all home and realized I couldn't tear anything apart. Plus I have not yet ordered the adapter plate to put the older throttle body on the gen 5 supercharger.