Ok im still kinda going back and forth between what swap id like to do in the future. Ive heard good things bout the 3800sc but ive only heard of a few people doing manual swaps, and id really like my swap to be manual, i dont like auto. So then i was thinking bout doing a 3.8 N/A swap, 5spd and perhaps throwing a turbo on at a later date, then theres the LS1 swap. For me, i dont race at the track (though once i do the swap i probably will from time to time), i dont want 900HP, for me i think around the 300-400hp (at the wheels) mark is about where i want to be. Im thinking i want to do the LS1 swap mainly because it'll be easier to get to that 300-400hp mark than with a v6, and less stress on the engine. Now, in the next few months im going to be starting a job that will be paying around $20/h, virtually limitless overtime (yay) and i only have $200/Month in bills (yay to being 20 ). What id like to do (and this is a big maybe) is get a 2nd car and take the fiero off the road whilst i do said swap. The plan is to build up the engine and tranny on an 88 cradle and buy parts as i get the cash, then once its done just swap it over. I can get access to pretty well all the required tools, but my big thing is that i dont know alot about cars in general. My question is this, how long (realisticly) do you think it may take for me to do this swap without the help of a shop, by getting help through you guys, and various other websites. P.S. I learn quickly

That ls1 will tear through a manual just as quickly or faster than a 3800sc would. Seriously, go 3800. No kit involved, cheaper parts and aftermarket, great mileage, and still pretty lightweight. You can hit the 300whp mark with the l67 pretty easily also, good tune, intercooler and pulley swap will get you in that range and you'll still be under what you'd spend total on the ls1 swap itself.

If you learn quick and read the right threads, you could get it done in a month or two.

[This message has been edited by RideZiLightning (edited 11-12-2007).]

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: That ls1 will tear through a manual just as quickly or faster than a 3800sc would. Seriously, go 3800. No kit involved, cheaper parts and aftermarket, great mileage, and still pretty lightweight. You can hit the 300whp mark with the l67 pretty easily also, good tune, intercooler and pulley swap will get you in that range and you'll still be under what you'd spend total on the ls1 swap itself. If you learn quick and read the right threads, you could get it done in a month or two.

Cheaper parts and aftermarket?? Sorry but the Chevy and Ford V-8's have the largest aftermarket of any engine and the prices for parts are the least expensive. As for weight, A 3800SC weighs around 440lbs, LS1 is around 390lbs.

As to the topic, The swap can be done in as little as two weeks if you had everything sitting in front of you and you worked on it everyday. With adding in working full time, Life, and having to get the one or two things you forgot, I would say two months. It all depends on how much time you can spend on it. Most of the more involved swaps (3.4DOHC, 3800SC, SBC, N*, etc.) average around 100 - 120 hours of work for a novice.

I'll be very honest with you. Form the picture you post of borrowed tools and still gathering the $$ to buy the parts I'll tell you it will take you near a year before that car moves on its own and that is if you are really committed. Especially if you go LS1. Also if you really want to achieve those rwHP numbers you will need to add the go-fast parts and tuning for it (plus $$ for the tuning or it will take longer than the year). Better go with an LS2 so you have the 300++rwHP without tuning. Oh, but then how long will take you to get the $$ for the engine and kit?? Sorry to sound negative but all that counts. I would go the stock 3800SC route trying to get a cheap one and once it is in the car running then deal with the hp increase. I think that would get you in the road quicker and cheaper. Good luck

------------------

Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed Yellow: Nitrous 3.4 + 4 speed Auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

I would say at least 3 months for your first swap.

just to throw out some more ideas for you, the Cadillac 4.9 V8 is concidered one of the easiest/cheapest swaps. It will bolt right up to a Fiero transmission if so desired and puts out decent horsepower/torque numbers. Plus you can slap a turbo on it later on and the whole package will still probably weigh less then the stock Fiero V6. Then you also get that V8 sound if that's what you're looking for with the LS1.

But still, take into account that it is NOT a small block chevy so the after market is very limited but with a Turbo it will still be fairly easy to at least get torque up to 300 at the wheels (i believe a stock 4.9 is around 275 ft/lbs stock?)

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Cheaper parts and aftermarket?? Sorry but the Chevy and Ford V-8's have the largest aftermarket of any engine and the prices for parts are the least expensive. As for weight, A 3800SC weighs around 440lbs, LS1 is around 390lbs. As to the topic, The swap can be done in as little as two weeks if you had everything sitting in front of you and you worked on it everyday. With adding in working full time, Life, and having to get the one or two things you forgot, I would say two months. It all depends on how much time you can spend on it. Most of the more involved swaps (3.4DOHC, 3800SC, SBC, N*, etc.) average around 100 - 120 hours of work for a novice.

I meant the parts to do the swap, and the upgrades I mentioned are relatively cheap for how much power you can get out of them. I also said pretty lightweight, I was trying to say it's not as light but still not an anchor.

I believe Archie has complete LS2 kits available. An LS2 should give you the power you want bone stock. 400 HP in factory trim should easily be over 300 RWHP in a Fiero. You also have the advantage of complete instructions on how to do the swap and what parts you need to provide yourself. V8 vs V6 argument aside, his swaps are probably due to the kit contents and instructions.

A 3800SC swap is probably an easier swap, but you have to research how to set it up, how to wire it, and make or buy custom mounts from someone. Many people have done it, but I don't know of any comprehensive step by step instructions like you get with an Archie kit. Then the 3800SC is going to need at least an extra 100 HP over stock minimum to meet your goals - so you'll have to start off with the mods to get there.

If you can find a good deal on a used LS2, I'd think that would be the way to go. My guess is several months to a year or more for your first swap, depending on how much time you can devote to it. And that's assuming you have everything up front. If you have to wait to purchase parts, you may end up waiting on funds rather than the work.

3800sc with auto tranny , and i would have 1k at hand. With everyone here you could get it done quick.

quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: 3800sc with auto tranny , and i would have 1k at hand. With everyone here you could get it done quick.

That will get him about 200 RWHP. He wants 300 - 400 RWHP. Don't forget the mods to up the 3800SC by 50-100% over stock.

realisticly, how long would a LS1 swap take for an amature?

It won't get done.

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: realisticly, how long would a LS1 swap take for an amature? It won't get done.

Now that isn't true. It might take a while, but it will get done. I mean, he'd be using a kit, c'mon.

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: Now that isn't true. It might take a while, but it will get done. I mean, he'd be using a kit, c'mon.

The only reason I say that, is I have see all too many "amatures" take on projects (kit cars for example) without the skills, spend lots of money then lose the enthusiasm. Sure, some may finish, but without the experience of such a swap and all the pitfalls that they WILL encounter and then do the amature fix (hack job) of the pitfall, the project will become a nightmare.

I spent last weekend working with a skilled mechanic on "fixing" a getrag transmission. I now know why skilled mechanics are worth the $$. Replaced the throwout bearing, and new clutch. Once it got all back together, it stilled didn't work. Bent clutch pedal one problem discovered. Still no work. Checked the master cylinder it was ok, checked the slave, it was ok. It appears that the problem in internal to the getrag. Arrggh. In a couple of weeks we'll go back and tear the transmission out again and check to see what may be wrong internally.

I think I have to agree with Old Lar on this one. I'm sure there are a few examples of amatuers doing an LS swap, but I'm even more certain there are 100x's more examples of started and incomplete swaps. That's why I have chosen a different path. I have an 85 with the Duke in it. I have an extra Duke engine that I am going to do a rebuild on. Not because I think it is the best option, but I think it is the best way to get my feet (hands) wet. A simple rebuild, and a straight 1 for another swap, is a good way to build confidence and knowledge. Then I hope to do a 3.4 swap. After reading on this forum, it seems to be the most straight foward and easiest swap. From there who knows. A LS swap does make me drool, but wasted money makes me cringe. But if your hell bent on doing it then good luck. Just remember the answer to the old saying: How do you eat an elephant?......... One bite at a time. Be prepared for it to take awhile and to take alot of money.

Jim

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That will get him about 200 RWHP. He wants 300 - 400 RWHP. Don't forget the mods to up the 3800SC by 50-100% over stock.

with a manual, the 300rwhp is quite easy, and with a manual, 250 is not hard with an auto. Out of the box youll get about 190 on the auto, and about 215 on a manual. A 3.4 pulley and a decent exhaust that you will have to build anyway, will get you 220auto/250manual or more.

LS1 swap = extensive welding and custom parts. 3800 swap = swap parts availible, or limited welding for mount considerations.

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: realisticly, how long would a LS1 swap take for an amature? It won't get done.

X 2!!!

The LSX swap is a pretty big swap and not a whole lot of them have been done by the average Fiero owner. I am sure in a few years that the LSX swap will be as common as the 3800 swap is now but it will take a few years. If you are wanting to stay manuel then you better go all out and upgrade to the 6 speed/5 speed trans from the newer cars and hope they can hold the torque the LSX motors can put out.

to the 2ndish poster, i wasn't saying i didn't think that the LS1 wouldn't go through a 5spd as fast as a 3800, it was more that id heard that getting a 3800s/c auto was much easier than 5spd, and id really like manual. If its possible to go 3800s/c + 5 or 6spd then im all for it, i just didn't think it'd be as plausable. Now.. of the two, which should be easier to get done, 3800sc (or n/a) or LS1? Btw, i do have friends that are somewhat mechanicly inclined, and i have a friend who has a 9 second cutlass so the assistance is there should i need it.

edit: it would also be fun to go 3800s/c auto but with paddle shifters but that would be a whole nother headache in itself lol

I wouldn't be totally bummed if it did take like a year, the plan is to build is off the car so i can still drive the fiero. And to the LS2 swap idea, i had though about it, the step-by-step would be awesome, but its just finding a good deal on one that would be tricky, ill keep it in mind though.

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 11-13-2007).]

a 3800 manual would be MORE plausible, due to the simple fact it bolts up, and the LS1 doesnt. Not to mention that the motor actually fits in the engine bay.

A 3800 is usually suggested to go automatic, because the auto transmissions are near bullet proof compared to any FWD transmission (not to mention the gearing is MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER).

Before a good answer to your question can be given, more information is needed:

1. How much mechanical experience do you have?

What have you successfully replaced on a car before? Have you ever dropped a tranny? Have you ever even changed the spark plugs? Have you ever welded?

2. Do you have many tool?

Do you have a full snap-on tool set or do you just a one of those 50 tool Walmart specials? Do you have an engine crane? Any tools you don't have, you will have to buy or borrow.

3. How much are you willing to spend?

With enough money, you can do anything. Although you may think that $20/hour is a lot of money, trust me, it isn't. $20/hour is about $41k/year gross. Being single you will bring home about $27-30k of that depending on your state. If you want to sink all of your money into the car, just pay someone else to do the swap for you. If you want to do it yourself, be ready for some big bills. You can easily pay $2,000 just on tools and not even realize you spent that much. A MIG welding setup can easily cost you $1,500 when all the costs are done. Paying someone to fab things up for you can cost you a pretty penny too. Welders in my area charge $80 just to come to your house. Then they start their hourly rate plus cost of materials.

Don't go in with a blank check. Figure out a budget and try to stick to it. Expect this swap to cost you a minimum of $5,000 if you a a spend thrift. Multiply by X2, X3, or X4 if you don't know what you are doing, don't shop, break stuff or buy the best things on the market.

Always get 3 opinions, quotes and/or prices before you do anything. If someone has too high a price, go elsewhere. If someone has too low a price, also look elsewere. There is usually a (bad) reason why their price is so low.

The search function on this web forum should be your best friend. Look at how other people have done the same swap. Take what you like from their experiences and learn from their mistakes before you even lift a wrench. It will save you literally thousands of dollars and lots of headaches.

Remember that 1 hour of planning and preperation will save you 4 hours of headaches.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: a 3800 manual would be MORE plausible, due to the simple fact it bolts up, and the LS1 doesnt. Not to mention that the motor actually fits in the engine bay. A 3800 is usually suggested to go automatic, because the auto transmissions are near bullet proof compared to any FWD transmission (not to mention the gearing is MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER).

Actually the LSx engine fits in the engine bay just fine.

But you haven't actually seen one yet have you?





Archie

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Before a good answer to your question can be given, more information is needed: 1. How much mechanical experience do you have? What have you successfully replaced on a car before? Have you ever dropped a tranny? Have you ever even changed the spark plugs? Have you ever welded? 2. Do you have many tool? Do you have a full snap-on tool set or do you just a one of those 50 tool Walmart specials? Do you have an engine crane? Any tools you don't have, you will have to buy or borrow. 3. How much are you willing to spend? With enough money, you can do anything. Although you may think that $20/hour is a lot of money, trust me, it isn't. $20/hour is about $41k/year gross. Being single you will bring home about $27-30k of that depending on your state. If you want to sink all of your money into the car, just pay someone else to do the swap for you. If you want to do it yourself, be ready for some big bills. You can easily pay $2,000 just on tools and not even realize you spent that much. A MIG welding setup can easily cost you $1,500 when all the costs are done. Paying someone to fab things up for you can cost you a pretty penny too. Welders in my area charge $80 just to come to your house. Then they start their hourly rate plus cost of materials. Don't go in with a blank check. Figure out a budget and try to stick to it. Expect this swap to cost you a minimum of $5,000 if you a a spend thrift. Multiply by X2, X3, or X4 if you don't know what you are doing, don't shop, break stuff or buy the best things on the market. Always get 3 opinions, quotes and/or prices before you do anything. If someone has too high a price, go elsewhere. If someone has too low a price, also look elsewere. There is usually a (bad) reason why their price is so low. The search function on this web forum should be your best friend. Look at how other people have done the same swap. Take what you like from their experiences and learn from their mistakes before you even lift a wrench. It will save you literally thousands of dollars and lots of headaches. Remember that 1 hour of planning and preperation will save you 4 hours of headaches.

good advice there, the thing bout this is that ill start at $20/h, and in 4 years ill be making $38/h, which is why im not that worried if the swap will take awhile. For experience, well not very much really. Ive replaced the plugs, wires and other misc things, nothing big though which is why im banking this will take a good bit of time. The thing is that like i said i learn quickly, and i have help. My friends brother is a mechanic, but i dont want to ask for help unless i absolutely have to, i dont like taking advatange of the generosity of family and friends :P Ill deff. keep the shopping around in mind, i know how to look for a deal For tools, i have a moderate ammount, my uncle has aLOT of tools, i remember he said he had in the neighbourhood of $30,000 worth of tools he got over the years, he is also a welder (not pro, but he's been doing it for years). He does have an engine crane, and i was going to make a rig to hoist the body up like i saw in another thread. Like i said, i can get/borrow pretty much any tools needed, i have alot of time, a fair bit of money, and patience

quote Originally posted by kawana: for me i think around the 300-400hp (at the wheels) mark is about where i want to be.

The thing that caught my attention...a lot of people start with Wheel horsepower and work backwards. Where do these numbers come from? How do you know that you want 300 - 400 hp at the wheels? Usually it's just for bragging rights, and not for any tangible reason.

I would suggest starting with your budget, time availability and mechanical ability and go from there. If you start with a V8 Archie Master Build kit, an LS2 is possible, but it's not going to be inexpensive. A 3800SC from the junk yard might be less expensive, but there are huge hidden costs, like the wiring, the ECM Programming, small little bits and pieces that need fabricating.

For most people either of those engines are overkill, the best engine for a beginner is the 3.4. It mounts up with a minimum of fuss and you can reuse the Fiero accessories, and it definitely looks like it belongs. No you won't get 300 hp to the wheels, or even 200hp, but honestly unless you are running at the track it's not going to make that much difference. That's just my opinion.

Realistically it’s hard to say how long it would take to do an LSx swap. It really would depend on what your skill level is & whether you can follow instructions closely. Doing a Chevy V-8 swap into a Fiero is really not all that hard to do if you consider it as step by step process of many little jobs strung together to complete the big project.

The advantage of doing a Chevy V-8 swap over some of the other swaps is that there is a kit available that has all the parts needed to perform your specific swap on your specific car. The kits are available from someone who actually does the swaps in house daily & has enough experience to guide you to a successful completion of your project.

As you know there are no kits for most of the other swaps that can be done to the Fiero & no single authority on exactly how those swaps should be done. Yes, you can put in a 3800 SC (for example) but if you research that swap you find that everyone that has done one has some items of differences in how he has done the swap as opposed to the way others’ have done the same swap. The question is who’s advice you use & will that person be there when you really need him to help you thru any problems you run into. If you search PFF, you’ll find that there are 20+ different write-ups on any given engine swap but there are enough variations on how those swaps were done that you might never know which variation is the best until you’ve tried them yourself. I’d suspect that there are 20 people here on PFF who have done a particular V-6 swap but none of them have done it exactly the same way with the same mounts, ECM controls, transmissions, etc.

You stated that you wanted a specific power level on the completed project & that you wanted a stick shift car. Let me try to give you a little insight.

We make a kit for the LSx engine swaps. We’ve built about 15 LSx swaps in house & have sold about 15 kits or so for customers who wanted to build their LSx swap themselves. So we have experience with that swap than anyone else here has with whatever engine swap they are advocating. I find it funny that many of the self professed engine swap experts have done 3 or 4 of one type of engine swap & have declared themselves experts on all engine swaps. Over the last 20 years we’ve done over 400 Chevy V-8 swaps & sold over 1600 kits. At least 100 of my customers are members of this Forum. Transmission failures when using a good condition well cared for Getrag are few & far between & I think the F40 6 speed is even stronger than a new Fiero Getrag would be & I’d recommend that transmission for the LSx engines.

The beauty of any Chevy V-8 swap is the aftermarket support. You’ve already heard that the Chevy engines can be hopped up to about any power level with inexpensive easily available parts. Chevy V-8 engines have been swapped into virtually anything & everything that has 4 wheels (& some 2 & 3 wheel vehicles). Because the SBC engines are the most popular choice for engine swaps in the world, the aftermarket support is overwhelming. As a result, things like complete standalone wire harnesses & ECM programming from reputable manufacturers that are just a phone call away. The hot rodding aftermarket has virtually everything available that is needed to make everything run correctly. You can open up any Hot Rod magazine & find 10 suppliers that can sell you a wire harness & program the ECM for whatever SBC you choose to use. The other Fiero engine conversions you read about don’t have that aftermarket support. So you have to find someone on the Fiero groups who can do your harness & programming in a timely manor who has a reputation you can trust 7 some proof that they even know what they’re talking about.

When I do a LSx swap here, I just call Street & Performance www.hotrodlane.cc & give them some information on gear ratios & tire diameters & they can send me a plug & play harness & programmed ECM that connects into my Fiero harness & that part of the swap is a done deal.

IMHO, for a rookie, I would say that an LSx swap is about the 2nd most difficult Chevy V-8 swap you could do (the LT1 swap is more difficult). The level of difficulty for an LSx swap is about 20% more than a “normal” Small Block Chevy swap. I’ve had High School kids that have successfully done SBC swaps. So if taken a step at a time & if the instructions are followed, you can complete your project correctly the 1st time.

Our LSx engine swaps kits will fit & have been used with LS1, LS2 & LS6 engines. All those LSx engines are basically the same configurations externally so the installation instructions are all basically the same.

Sure, it can be a bit more expensive to do a LSx swap but some of the vendors who are capable of doing 3800SC swaps are quoting their swaps using used engines at prices that are higher than what we have done many of our SBC swaps using new engines.

Typically in threads like this one, a few people will point out that whatever swap they are advocating doesn’t require a “kit”. They don’t mention that they are comparing used junkyard engine swaps to new crate SBC swap costs. Virtually any engine swap of a given HP range, requires new mounts, cooling system, cooling system connections, exhaust system, clutch etc. The only difference between needing a “kit” or not needing a “kit” is whether you want chase down all the compatible parts to complete your swap or do you want to give me a call & tell me to send them to you as part of a “kit”. At one point or another you need certain parts to do any kind of swap. Most people try to gather up all those parts before they start a swap. So by the time they start a swap, if all the parts they’ve gathered are compatible, they have in effect gathered together a “kit” to do their swap. Some people say “kit” like it’s a bad word, the people who’ve actually done a SBC swap, or any other swap know that “kit” can be a good word.

In a couple of weeks we are going to be doing another LS2 swap with a 6 speed transmission & I plan to do a write-up on that swap from start to finish, so stay tuned.

Make an informed decision based on factual information from people that actually have extensive experience with the type of swap you’re interested in.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: Actually the LSx engine fits in the engine bay just fine. But you haven't actually seen one yet have you? Archie

I have seen an LS1 installed in a Fiero on a 65E and can tell you that it is a tight fit. If you look at Darths Thread on the LS4, you can see it is also a very tight fit on both sides. The pictures you show are of only the trans area which does show plenty of room with nothing around. But where are the pictures of the other end of the engine where it is almost in the strut tower. I mean there is no way you can really say that the LSX swap is not going to be a tight fit and be telling the truth. Dont get me wrong the LSX is going to be a great swap when attached to the proper trans.

What is an amateur? Someone that doesn't get paid to do something and hasn't done it before. Does that mean it cant be done? No it just means he hasn't done it yet. So what if it takes longer, take your time and do it right, buy the right tools as you go and have fun.

My house burned down in 97, I lost all of my tools. 08-13-2005 I started my V8 and all I had to do was move it from one car to another. I had to buy all new tools and did it on my carport. It took time but its in and running.
I don't turn wrenches for a living, I welded for 15 years and now I work on computers.

I'm an amateur.

I don't get paid to do body work either


If you want it bad enough you will get it done, you will learn how to do things and the best thing about it is you don't know you cant do something so just do it. After its done we can all come back in here and tell you how you cant do that


amateur (àm´e-tûr´, -ter, -e-ch¢r´, -cher, -ty¢r´) noun
1. Abbr. a., A. A person who engages in an art, a science, a study, or an athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
2. Abbr. a., A. Sports. An athlete who has never participated in competition for money.
3. One lacking the skill of a professional, as in an art.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

I think 80% of us are amateurs

Thanks Archie and Jake, i feel that, given enough time, i can do it. Theres a first time for everything right lol, what better way to learn than hands on :P Ill be sure i take my time, and research alot before i buy/do anything. This wont start happening for ATLEAST 6 months, but its never too early to start reading up. I personally think that the LS1 or LS2 swap would be right for me, ive always wanted a "muscle car" since i was a wee lad, and i dont see myself ever owning the 69 charger of my dreams so i figure this will be the next best thing lol the numbers i gave arn't set in stone, i just know i want more than 200hp minimum. Does anyone know the stock LS1 and LS2 numbers off hand? Ive riddin in a stock 00' camaro SS before and all i know is that it was plenty fast. So im thinking that should be more than enough in a fiero, what with the power:weight stuff. Thanks for all the advise and info guys. Few +'s going out to yall

LS1 - 320 to 350 HP at the crank

LS2 - 400 HP at the crank

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I have seen an LS1 installed in a Fiero on a 65E and can tell you that it is a tight fit. If you look at Darths Thread on the LS4, you can see it is also a very tight fit on both sides. The pictures you show are of only the trans area which does show plenty of room with nothing around. But where are the pictures of the other end of the engine where it is almost in the strut tower. I mean there is no way you can really say that the LSX swap is not going to be a tight fit and be telling the truth. Dont get me wrong the LSX is going to be a great swap when attached to the proper trans.

Did he say a loose fit or plenty of room somewhere? I don't think so. Only that it fits fine. I have seen all types of SBCs installations and I would say the LSx is second to the basic carb setup in terms of fit space. Also I would say all V8s fit tight but fine in a Fiero. If you see any V8 in a new car then you will understand what is real tight. I would consider my TPI setup as the most top tight because the intake can't be easily roatated. LSx and LT1s can. But I would say the LT1 is the most bottom tight because it requires the most frame cutting of all.

Trust me, it fits.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Actually the LSx engine fits in the engine bay just fine. But you haven't actually seen one yet have you? Archie

notice how he didnt show the other frame rail.

In a 3800 swap the stock tranmission mounts are retained, along with a stock waterpump/alternator routing. I am doubting that a LSX with a 2 inch adapter plate can make that claim, if so i think I may have done the wrong motor swap.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 11-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Doc John: Trust me, it fits.

that sure is pretty

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: with a manual, the 300rwhp is quite easy, and with a manual, 250 is not hard with an auto. Out of the box youll get about 190 on the auto, and about 215 on a manual. A 3.4 pulley and a decent exhaust that you will have to build anyway, will get you 220auto/250manual or more. LS1 swap = extensive welding and custom parts. 3800 swap = swap parts availible, or limited welding for mount considerations.

Assuming a manual tranny, since that's what he wants, and assuming your estimate is accurate, the 3.4 pulley and exhaust gets him to about 250 RWHP. He said he wanted 300 - 400 RWHP. You need another 50 RWHP to get to his minimum desired.

The LS2 is definitely a tighter fit, but it also has the advantage of 400 flywheel HP stock. Even with 25% loss, you're still at 300 RWHP and you haven't done any mods yet. The LS2 responds very well to mods.

Yes, the LS2 is likely more expensive, but you're getting more for your money, too.

What does it take to get a 3800SC up to 400 flywheel HP?

this is why im thinking id wanna do a sbc because id rather have 300ish HP that is reliable, then mod a 3800 to 300-400HP and have it not last as long. Once i finish whatever swap im gunna do, it will be stricktly a spring and summer ride, perhaps fall but i may have a 2nd car for fall and winter alltogether. Either way, i want something reliable.

If you have your heart set on 300-400 hp at the wheels, then I would say go with the LSx... it makes close to that right out of the box, and will require less mods.

I agree with Archie 100% that for the amature, the SBC kit has every part you will need without leaving your driveway and with technical support that you can do it yourself, no matter how long it takes. The other route you will get 20 different opinions and you won't know what to do.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: notice how he didnt show the other frame rail. In a 3800 swap the stock tranmission mounts are retained, along with a stock waterpump/alternator routing. I am doubting that a LSX with a 2 inch adapter plate can make that claim, if so i think I may have done the wrong motor swap.

You want to see the other side? Here is the other side. Now please list me the mods, parts, parts install details and tuning sequence for the 400hp 3800SC. And yes I think you did the wrong swap by far!!! LOL!

quote Originally posted by Doc John: Trust me, it fits.

Everytime I see this picture posted, I want to send you a piece of 4 inch tubing so you can get you intake out of the engine bay. I am willing to bet that the motor would enjoy a little fresh air compared to the hot air is has to suck in. I am sure it will not make a big differance but it will make a differance.