Why are you looking to do a swap with 400HP? Why not a swap with 250 HP? Whats the reasoning? Not trying to be an ass by no means but just wondering.
Why do you care its his care. Why do you need more than 100 hp? If he wants a V8 then thats his choice, he didnt ask about another swap. Its getting old.
I have a V8 because I want one, I drive a Fiero because I want too. If I want 400 HP and have the money then why would anyone else care? If it was up to everyone else in the world I would be driving a Toyota and I would rather drive a Ford than do that.
Why do you care its his care. Why do you need more than 100 hp? If he wants a V8 then thats his choice, he didnt ask about another swap. Its getting old.
I have a V8 because I want one, I drive a Fiero because I want too. If I want 400 HP and have the money then why would anyone else care? If it was up to everyone else in the world I would be driving a Toyota and I would rather drive a Ford than do that.
Lets start off with the phrase--not trying to be an ass but--I wasnt talking to you--I posted those questions to the guy wanting 400HP. I dont really care but I just got off work and am bored with myself so I thought I would ask.
Who is everyone else? Why would you not drive a Toyota? What type Ford would you drive over a Toyota? Just wondering!!!
Lets start off with the phrase--not trying to be an ass but--I wasnt talking to you--I posted those questions to the guy wanting 400HP. I dont really care but I just got off work and am bored with myself so I thought I would ask.
Who is everyone else? Why would you not drive a Toyota? What type Ford would you drive over a Toyota? Just wondering!!!
Any Ford older than 20 years
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11:43 AM
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7410 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
In a 3800 swap the stock tranmission mounts are retained, along with a stock waterpump/alternator routing. I am doubting that a LSX with a 2 inch adapter plate can make that claim, if so i think I may have done the wrong motor swap.
2" adapter plate??? Who has a 2" adapter plate? Archie's plates are about 1" thick. Yes the 3800SC has a shorter length so it can use the stock waterpump. If he is looking to get to the 300-400hp range, Just get a ZZ4. They have 355hp at the crank and with a manual trans hit 309 rwhp. The engine is about 45lbs lighter than a 3800SC and a manual trans is about 100 lbs lighter than the 4-spd auto.
Actually as for SBC engines he does have some choices: LM1 = 290 hp 350 H.O. = 330 hp 383HT = 340 hp LS1 = 350 hp 350 RamJet = 350 hp ZZ4 = 355hp Fastburn 385 = 385 hp LS2 = 400 hp LS6 = 405 hp Fastburn 425 = 425 hp ZZ383 = 425 hp LS364 = 440 hp LS7 = 500 hp
a 3800 with 400WHP through an auto is a real feat to be honest, but it is quite easy with a turbo, and very little ($600+turbo stuffs) engine mods.
The gen3/5 blower really just maxes out short of 400 crank horsepower, you really need a highly modded motor ready to accept very hot boost to get that power out of a blower. A blower car can make about 380 rated crank horsepower without extensive building, and still be just as reliable as a stock one, turbo stuff will start out around the 450 crank hp mark, with 600 crank HP not far away with simple considerations.
You really need to get out of this "crank vs whp" mindset, they are 2 totatlly different things, even more so in FWD applications. for example, my friends manual 3800 swap puts down near 45 more HP to the wheels, just because its a manual FWD transmission and mine is an auto. Bascily what i am trying to say, is horsepower is very subjective, and it is also very dependant on the horsepower curve. While us average modded blower 3800 cars only make ~250 whp through autos and ~300whp on a manual, we make it almost flat across the curve, while any N/A motor is going to peak its power for only a few hundred RPM's.
The only stock LSX car my or my friends manual fiero has lost a race to was a LS6 in a vette that was lighter than me, and it wasnt by much (2 cars, I have the video somewhere). I attest this to insane torque and power curves at the low end, because its very clear that the LSx car had to get a running start to catch up to me half track.
Buy what you want to buy, the whole idea of a engine swap is to do what you want to do. If you want sound and bragging rights, do a LS swap. If you want similar performance, for 1/4 or less the price, do a 3800.
(ill put my 95% stock 3800 swap up against any LS1 swapped car any day, bring it on)
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01:11 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
If you want similar performance, for 1/4 or less the price, do a 3800.
Let's compare and see if it is true. I am going to use a NEW Crate engine for both just to keep things even. We all know that used engine prices vary a lot based on area and availability but in doing this comparison we need to at least keep things as even as possible. Now West Coast Fiero basically offers everything you need to do a 3800SC swap and Archie has the items for an SBC swap. I am going to use the full kit prices. We all know that some items can be bought locally for a less expensive price, But again we are doing an even comparison.
So for $1319 LESS you gain 95 hp and 125 ft/lbs of torque and add less weight.
I don't think if both engines were installed in identically optioned 87 Fiero GT's that the performance would be similar. Unless of course you consider a 13-second car to be similar to a 12-second car??
Why are you looking to do a swap with 400HP? Why not a swap with 250 HP? Whats the reasoning? Not trying to be an ass by no means but just wondering.
well.. im not really set on that number, id be happy with 300 at the wheels the number mostly comes from the fact that i want a V8, the LS1 and LS2 are easily found, still get fair MPG when your not flooring it lol, have enough support from Archie to get it done eventually. Like i said, my main reasoning is because ive ridden in a LS1 camaro and know thats the feeling i want in my fiero, id just rather have a stock engine that makes the power i want then mod a 3800 to get to that point. Then, down the road, should i feel the need to do so, i can get ALOT more out of the v8 then the 3.8.
edit: to the last few posters, my reason for v8 over the 3.8sc (which as you say has the power over a larger band than the v8), i dont race, i dont street race nore do i go to the track. I want power that is on the low end, stoplight to stoplight kinda power, if that makes any sense
[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 11-14-2007).]
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01:56 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Using a WCF "kit" is suicide for the wallet, but remember that comes with exhaust, hose clamps, all your a/c components, ect.
The actual swap kit to get a motor in running is only $600 from WCF and 99.9% of the time you dont need the oil adapter when doing a SC swap. The whole "premium" swap kit from WCF includes $250 worth of "schmatics" lol!!!! They say that if you take them a $200 fiero, it will cost you $10000 to buy a motor and put it in, sorta strange that I had no problems doing mine for well less than $1000, using a motor that has 50k miles on it.
Every 3800 swap I have done with little to no mods (3.4 pulley press on pulley, nearly bench tuned PCM) got me 12.8 with an auto and 12.6 with a manual. I have plenty of time slips to prove this.
[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 11-14-2007).]
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03:41 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Using a WCF "kit" is suicide for the wallet, but remember that comes with exhaust, hose clamps, all your a/c components, ect.
The actual swap kit to get a motor in running is only $600 from WCF
As I stated I went with a full kits because the originator of this thread is considered an "amature" at engine swaps so he may want to just get all the parts from one place instead of searching around and I wanted to keep everything even in the comparison.
Archie's basic kit will get the motor in the car for $950. On Ebay you can pick up a 300hp V-8 out of an F-body for $600. The 3800SC engines on Ebay are going for around $1100. So going with the least amount you are only talking a $50 difference between a V-8 and a 3800SC. Still a far cry from "1/4 the price". Yes someone who has done a few swaps knows what he can get away with or can get from alternate sources for less. An amature will not have the same knowledge or experience on their first swap.
I have an off-the-shelf new crate V-8 with no mods and pulled a 12.3
So have you figured out that a 3800Sc or a SBC V-8 is going to cost about the same price for the swap yet?
Hence why I have always said that the engine of choice for a swap is the engine the owner of the car wants. In other words it is a personal preference and the originator of this thread wants a V-8.
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04:52 PM
GKDINC Member
Posts: 1813 From: East Tawas MI Registered: Dec 2001
Time wise? My first home Archie swap I planned on completeing in 3 months. One year and 3 months later I had a totally restored V-8 Fiero. The second one I call a budget build is in the seventh month and the engine is running but the car is not driveable yet but will be in another month. I'm a amature at this and work on it in my free time. Good Luck with whatever swap you do but it does take time. Gary
Let's compare and see if it is true. I am going to use a NEW Crate engine for both just to keep things even. We all know that used engine prices vary a lot based on area and availability but in doing this comparison we need to at least keep things as even as possible. Now West Coast Fiero basically offers everything you need to do a 3800SC swap and Archie has the items for an SBC swap. I am going to use the full kit prices. We all know that some items can be bought locally for a less expensive price, But again we are doing an even comparison.
So for $1319 LESS you gain 95 hp and 125 ft/lbs of torque and add less weight.
I don't think if both engines were installed in identically optioned 87 Fiero GT's that the performance would be similar. Unless of course you consider a 13-second car to be similar to a 12-second car??
So the LS1 is $176 MORE than a 3800SC and for your $176 you get 90 more hp. Nohwere near the 4X the cost of a 3800SC swap.
So there you go. Crate engine and "Kit" prices for a 3800SC swap and two SBC swaps.
But the main goal here is for 400 HP so the LS2 will be needed. What is the cost of the swap with a crate LS2 and the Master intstall kit? I think the price is going to go up a bit.
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05:34 PM
kawana Member
Posts: 2329 From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Registered: May 2007
Originally posted by MstangsBware: But the main goal here is for 400 HP so the LS2 will be needed. What is the cost of the swap with a crate LS2 and the Master intstall kit? I think the price is going to go up a bit.
Please forget the 300-400 i said before, id be happy with a stock LS1 in my fiero, whatever numbers that gives is fine with me. The ride in the stock 00' ss camaro was plenty fast, it would be even faster in the lighter fiero, so i know that is as fast as i want my car to be.
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05:42 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4547 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
a 3800 with 400WHP through an auto is a real feat to be honest, but it is quite easy with a turbo, and very little ($600+turbo stuffs) engine mods.
The gen3/5 blower really just maxes out short of 400 crank horsepower, you really need a highly modded motor ready to accept very hot boost to get that power out of a blower. A blower car can make about 380 rated crank horsepower without extensive building, and still be just as reliable as a stock one, turbo stuff will start out around the 450 crank hp mark, with 600 crank HP not far away with simple considerations.
You really need to get out of this "crank vs whp" mindset, they are 2 totatlly different things, even more so in FWD applications. for example, my friends manual 3800 swap puts down near 45 more HP to the wheels, just because its a manual FWD transmission and mine is an auto. Bascily what i am trying to say, is horsepower is very subjective, and it is also very dependant on the horsepower curve. While us average modded blower 3800 cars only make ~250 whp through autos and ~300whp on a manual, we make it almost flat across the curve, while any N/A motor is going to peak its power for only a few hundred RPM's.
The only stock LSX car my or my friends manual fiero has lost a race to was a LS6 in a vette that was lighter than me, and it wasnt by much (2 cars, I have the video somewhere). I attest this to insane torque and power curves at the low end, because its very clear that the LSx car had to get a running start to catch up to me half track.
Buy what you want to buy, the whole idea of a engine swap is to do what you want to do. If you want sound and bragging rights, do a LS swap. If you want similar performance, for 1/4 or less the price, do a 3800.
(ill put my 95% stock 3800 swap up against any LS1 swapped car any day, bring it on)
Dude, quit your redneck engineering. $600 + turbo 'stuff' on a 3800 will give you a chunk of scrap iron. Please show me someone who's spent that much money by just turboing their 3800 and got 400whp. I'm really tired of you barking in any time someone mentions SBC or LSX you have to say "Oh no, go 3800". Different people like different candy. Lost to an LS6 vette? News flash - Any vette w/ the LS6 unless COMPLETELY gutted, is 3200lbs. . . your fiero, 2800 wet. . try again. I'm sorry, but the LSx will NOT result in similar performance. If it did, please explain to me why I have to dump $13k into my 3800 to hit 550whp where as I could spray an LSx to that. . . ? And Crank hp and whp have nothing to do with eachother? They have everything to do with eachother dipshit. Crank HP * efficiency of driveline = whp. Using your words, this is why your coveted slushbox fiero made less, BECAUSE AUTO TRANSMISSIONS ARE LESS EFFICIENT. I'm just sick and tired of EVERY single LSx or 3800 thread you come in and run your mouth spewing how the OP should be building it different.
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06:04 PM
Chicken McNizzle Member
Posts: 1310 From: Valencia, CA Registered: Jan 2004
I gotta throw in the curve ball of Smog Legality here in CA. An auto 3800 kit from your example, WCF, includes all documentation to present for registration after the swap. I have yet to see a V8 kit among Archie, StreetDreams, etc... that does the same. But just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like I said, it's just a curve ball.
------------------ Recanizin' Flat-Buns Since 2001
Eric Nelson Internet Sales Manager Power Ford Valencia nelsone@autonation.com
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06:21 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9941 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
Originally posted by kawana: Please forget the 300-400 i said before, id be happy with a stock LS1 in my fiero, whatever numbers that gives is fine with me. The ride in the stock 00' ss camaro was plenty fast, it would be even faster in the lighter fiero, so i know that is as fast as i want my car to be.
I would consider a LS6 myself. They are not that much more expensive than a LS1 but are 405 hp stock vs 320.
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06:40 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Originally posted by MstangsBware: But the main goal here is for 400 HP so the LS2 will be needed. What is the cost of the swap with a crate LS2 and the Master intstall kit? I think the price is going to go up a bit.
No that isn't the main goal. Read the first post: for me i think around the 300-400hp (at the wheels) mark is about where i want to be. Im thinking i want to do the LS1 swap mainly because it'll be easier to get to that 300-400hp mark than with a v6,
An LS1 crate engine is 350hp, with a manual transaxle it should be about 300-305 rwhp. From the crate engine website: The engine is rated at 350 horsepower and 365 lb.-ft. of torque.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 11-14-2007).]
Originally posted by kawana: Please forget the 300-400 i said before, id be happy with a stock LS1 in my fiero, whatever numbers that gives is fine with me. The ride in the stock 00' ss camaro was plenty fast, it would be even faster in the lighter fiero, so i know that is as fast as i want my car to be.
If thats the case then the cost is listed above for a LS1 swap into a Fiero using the master kit. But you are still going to need a trans that will hold that much HP and torque so you either get a built Fiero trans or fork over the money for a 6 speed. I mean there is no since in having the HP/torque if you cant use it to its full potenional when you want to. I am all for the LSX swaps into a Fiero, I myself choose to use the LS4 mated to the 65E trans for my route.
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06:52 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
I gotta throw in the curve ball of Smog Legality here in CA. An auto 3800 kit from your example, WCF, includes all documentation to present for registration after the swap. I have yet to see a V8 kit among Archie, StreetDreams, etc... that does the same. But just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like I said, it's just a curve ball.
WCF is a California based business. The originator and Archie are not in California. Smog Legality in California is not the same as everywhere else. So how is it a "curve ball"?? How does it relate to the topic?
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06:56 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
If thats the case then the cost is listed above for a LS1 swap into a Fiero using the master kit. But you are still going to need a trans that will hold that much HP and torque so you either get a built Fiero trans or fork over the money for a 6 speed. I mean there is no since in having the HP/torque if you cant use it to its full potenional when you want to. I am all for the LSX swaps into a Fiero, I myself choose to use the LS4 mated to the 65E trans for my route.
ZZ4 with 355hp and 405 torque with a stock 1986 V-6 4-spd trans. No problems. That is more hp and torque than the LS1 is rated for. As long as you start with a known good manual transaxle it should be no problem.
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07:01 PM
aaronrus Member
Posts: 870 From: bradenton, FL USA Registered: Nov 2003
I believe Archie has complete LS2 kits available. An LS2 should give you the power you want bone stock. 400 HP in factory trim should easily be over 300 RWHP in a Fiero. You also have the advantage of complete instructions on how to do the swap and what parts you need to provide yourself. V8 vs V6 argument aside, his swaps are probably due to the kit contents and instructions.
A 3800SC swap is probably an easier swap, but you have to research how to set it up, how to wire it, and make or buy custom mounts from someone. Many people have done it, but I don't know of any comprehensive step by step instructions like you get with an Archie kit. Then the 3800SC is going to need at least an extra 100 HP over stock minimum to meet your goals - so you'll have to start off with the mods to get there.
If you can find a good deal on a used LS2, I'd think that would be the way to go. My guess is several months to a year or more for your first swap, depending on how much time you can devote to it. And that's assuming you have everything up front. If you have to wait to purchase parts, you may end up waiting on funds rather than the work.
from car-part.com
2005 Engine Pontiac GTO 6.0L,EFI,6 Sp,RWD,Factory 25,000 A PG0578 $7600 Auto Star Recycling Center, Inc. USA-TX(Bryan) E-mail 1-979-778-7500 Toll Free: 1-877-382-7500 2005 Engine Pontiac GTO -5/05(6.0L,VIN U,8-364) 6SPEED SWAP 16,000 A 07J164 $7500 Robbin's Auto Parts USA-NC(Henrietta) Request_Quote 1-800-726-0275 Request_Insurance_Quote
2005 Engine Pontiac GTO NO DAMAGE WITH ACCES PARTS,35K,NOTE 35,000 A N0032 $7490.11 M and M Auto Parts, Inc. - PRP, PRP-MA USA-VA(Stafford) Request_Quote 1-800-586-5492 1-540-659-2023 Request_Insurance_Quote
2005 Engine Pontiac GTO RAN,COMP,W ACC,WIRING,COMP,AUTO 48,000 A 07I28 $6000 Emerald Coast Auto Salvage USA-FL(Panama-City) Request_Quote 1-850-763-7000/1-888-763-7613 Request_Insurance_Quote
ZZ4 with 355hp and 405 torque with a stock 1986 V-6 4-spd trans. No problems. That is more hp and torque than the LS1 is rated for. As long as you start with a known good manual transaxle it should be no problem.
How long has your swap been done and how many miles have you out on it?
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07:12 PM
scooz14 Member
Posts: 86 From: W. Bloomfield, MI, USA Registered: May 2006
If you have your heart set on 300-400 hp at the wheels, then I would say go with the LSx... it makes close to that right out of the box, and will require less mods.
I agree with Archie 100% that for the amature, the SBC kit has every part you will need without leaving your driveway and with technical support that you can do it yourself, no matter how long it takes. The other route you will get 20 different opinions and you won't know what to do.
save 7 grand, get a used LS2, save some more, get an archie kit , save some more, buy a 6 speed manual tranny( f35 or f40 ), save some more, buy the harness and ecm, save some more, buy all yrou accessories...15 grand later, youve got yoru 300WHP swap done..
OR , spend about 6 to 8 grand on a built up 3800sc or built up 4.9L caddy motor swap.. you forget, the fiero weighs like 1000 lbs. less than the camaro SS you rode in, so it will only require about 220-230 WHP to perform the same as that camaro...why are you aiming so high the first tme out?
PM me, i have some ideas to throw at you, or you can email me directly:
stickpony@gmail.com
[This message has been edited by aaronrus (edited 11-14-2007).]
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07:28 PM
kawana Member
Posts: 2329 From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Registered: May 2007
well this is a good question, see i had 2 routes i thought of taking when i do the swap, one was the brute force, lotta torque V8 muscle car route, then i was also thinking of a high revving, ferrariesque route. On that note, has anyone done a turbo 3.4 build? If so, what kinda numbers could be achieved while still having a reliable engine that isn't gunna go to the shitter to quickly :P Is that something that would be harder/$$er than a LS1 build? Either way, i want something that sounds good, fast, and needs to throw me back in my seat
regardless of which i do, i want manual and i want a significant ammount of power over the stock 2.8, while the 2.8 is fun, i need more lol. Perhaps you are right about those numbers being a tad high.
[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 11-14-2007).]
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07:42 PM
Zac88GT Member
Posts: 1026 From: Victoria BC Registered: Nov 2004
Originally posted by kawana: well this is a good question, see i had 2 routes i thought of taking when i do the swap, one was the brute force, lotta torque V8 muscle car route, then i was also thinking of a high revving, ferrariesque route. On that note, has anyone done a turbo 3.4 build? If so, what kinda numbers could be achieved while still having a reliable engine that isn't gunna go to the shitter to quickly :P Is that something that would be harder/$$er than a LS1 build? Either way, i want something that sounds good, fast, and needs to throw me back in my seat
regardless of which i do, i want manual and i want a significant ammount of power over the stock 2.8, while the 2.8 is fun, i need more lol. Perhaps you are right about those numbers being a tad high.
Matt Hawkins did a very impressive turbo 3.4 TDC swap. A lot of tuning, and a fair amount of money i presume, and he's upwards of 400whp.
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08:04 PM
kawana Member
Posts: 2329 From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Registered: May 2007
i heard the 3.4 DOHC revs pretty high, does anyone have a link to the specs on these engines (the ones used in the v6 camaro's), along with the power output at what RPM's and such? Or perhaps if someone could suggest orther engines that are fairly easy to swap (perhaps easier/cheaper than the LS1) that can give a noticeable improvement in HP/TRQ
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08:11 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9941 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
i heard the 3.4 DOHC revs pretty high, does anyone have a link to the specs on these engines (the ones used in the v6 camaro's), along with the power output at what RPM's and such? Or perhaps if someone could suggest orther engines that are fairly easy to swap (perhaps easier/cheaper than the LS1) that can give a noticeable improvement in HP/TRQ
3.4 DOHC was never used in the Camero. The 3800 NA was.
210 hp and 215 TQ stock.
Here is everything and anything you want to know about the 3.4 DOHC:
Ya i just realized that whilst i was out lol, those numbers aren't too bad, i imaging with a turbo it would be quite nice Id like some opinions from people who have ridden/own a 3.4/fiero. Thanks for all the help people
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08:48 PM
jimbolaya Member
Posts: 10652 From: Virginia Beach, Virginia Registered: Feb 2007
Wow! This thread should did take a turn. Didn't just start out asking could a amatuer do an LS swap? With the last 2 pages of pissing you may have convinced him that no one should do a swap of any kind.
Jim
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08:58 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
How long has your swap been done and how many miles have you out on it?
Swap completed October 2004. Just over 4000 miles. (summer driven only) At least 8 runs on a drag strip. Over 48 laps on two different road courses.
Only problem I ever had while "performance driving" was this past October I ran on a road course the passenger rear coolant tube mounting bracket fell off due to a rusted bracket. I noticed the coolant tube hanging down after a run and I still drove it home without incident. I just replaced all the coolant tube brackets with new ones from the Fiero Store when I put it in storage for the winter.
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09:01 PM
PFF
System Bot
kawana Member
Posts: 2329 From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Registered: May 2007
Wow! This thread should did take a turn. Didn't just start out asking could a amatuer do an LS swap? With the last 2 pages of pissing you may have convinced him that no one should do a swap of any kind.
Jim
lol no i like hearing what you guys have to say, i know ill change my mind a billion times before i actually buy the first part but i know i can do it, its just a matter of how long it'll take. After reading up ont he 3.4, im starting to concider that too lol, the thing i love and hate about fieros' is the mind boggling number of modifications that can/have been done to them, truely awesome cars they are. Im still reading through everything in that link you posted but does anyone know the difficulty level of swapping a 3.4 into a fiero? How bout the cost? thanks again.
There is a 3.4 DOHC Fiero for sale here in Florida. He just replaced the clutch, it would need some body and paint work and I haven't actually seen the car but he is asking $4000 for it.
thanks but im a bit too far away, then theres the hassle of getting it brought over and inspected and all that other crap that needs to be done. No, i want to do this myself. My dad doesn't know jack bout cars so ive never had anyone to teach me, i learn best doing things hands on, learning as a go etc.. Im almost thinking a 3.4 DOHC would fit me well, i love pushing my 2.8 to 5k, 7k+ would be music to my ears That + a turbo (should i choose to do that later) would be great. Any info on the difficulty level of this swap is welcome. it sounds like the 5spd getrag or perhaps a 6spd would be fitting for that motor.
this makes me want one:
[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 11-14-2007).]
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09:36 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
you could buy 6 3800's for the price you pay for one ls6. and a camd/i/c 3800 will hit 330-350 whp, i have proof.
A new LS6 complete engine kit is $6295.99 from http://www.sdparts.com/cata...L405hpLS6Engine.aspx Please show me where I can get a new 3800SC for under $1050, complete. Not a short block or long block - a complete engine less electronics.
How much is a new 3800SC with the cam and intercooler necessary for 330-350 RWHP? That might equal a stock LS6.
How much is a new 3800SC with the cam and intercooler necessary for 330-350 RWHP? That might equal a stock LS6.
My motor/trans wasnt new but it only had 23K on it when I bought it. From that motor I modded it with cam, IC, LS1 TB, ect to get over the 300HP mark, which I am sure I have accomplished. The total I have invested in my car including the car is $5500 and only thing left to do is a put paint on it. I built the car to be fast, be a daily driver and to run some nice number when I go to the track. I dont care how you look at it, you are going to spend more on a LS1/2/6 install and still not be ahead of someone with a modded 3800SC swap. One key factor that everyone keeps over looking when wanting to do a high HP swap is what trans you are going to run that HP thru to get it to the ground. If you dont have a trans to handle the HP then you might as well not have a high HP swap to begin with.
Everything said in this Thread can be argued for days at end but there is alot of good information in the Thread also. Everyone builds there cars the way they want to suit there personality and thats what it is all about.
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11:13 PM
qwikgta Member
Posts: 4671 From: Virginia Beach, VA Registered: Jan 2001
The only reason I say that, is I have see all too many "amatures" take on projects (kit cars for example) without the skills, spend lots of money then lose the enthusiasm. Sure, some may finish, but without the experience of such a swap and all the pitfalls that they WILL encounter and then do the amature fix (hack job) of the pitfall, the project will become a nightmare.
I spent last weekend working with a skilled mechanic on "fixing" a getrag transmission. I now know why skilled mechanics are worth the $$. Replaced the throwout bearing, and new clutch. Once it got all back together, it stilled didn't work. Bent clutch pedal one problem discovered. Still no work. Checked the master cylinder it was ok, checked the slave, it was ok. It appears that the problem in internal to the getrag. Arrggh. In a couple of weeks we'll go back and tear the transmission out again and check to see what may be wrong internally.
im on year 5 with mine and its not my first swap. I have deployed out of the country (military) a few times but now im retired. I just don't have the drive anymore. Hope you have better luck.
RJ
------------------ 88 TTop coupe (96 3.4DOHC/5 speed in progress) 03 Vibe GT. 6spd 05 GTO, LS2, 6spd 01 Sonoma SLS, 5spd, ZQ8 sport suspension
Let's stop with the trash now guys, noone ever backs down.
I have a 3.4dohc, great car, about 31mpg hwy, winds out pretty good. Heads are ported and it has a custom plenum. It's just a bit slower than my stock 3.8sc, but the transmission is happy with it
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11:35 PM
Nov 15th, 2007
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
My motor/trans wasnt new but it only had 23K on it when I bought it. From that motor I modded it with cam, IC, LS1 TB, ect to get over the 300HP mark, which I am sure I have accomplished.
When you start with a junk yard engine, you can save a lot of money. That's the 3800SC's biggest advantage - they're cheaper in bone yards. If you compare apples to apples and go with new engines, the 3800SC isn't the bargain it is used.
If you buy a wrecked 2005 GTO for $5000, pull the engine, then part out the rest of the car you can get your engine virtually for free - but that's not really a fair comparison, is it? Neither is comparing used engine prices to new.
When you start with a junk yard engine, you can save a lot of money. That's the 3800SC's biggest advantage - they're cheaper in bone yards. If you compare apples to apples and go with new engines, the 3800SC isn't the bargain it is used.
If you buy a wrecked 2005 GTO for $5000, pull the engine, then part out the rest of the car you can get your engine virtually for free - but that's not really a fair comparison, is it? Neither is comparing used engine prices to new.
You can go to the junkyard and get a LS2 motor and you are still going to spend alot more on the swap. There was a list of LS2 motor several post up and they where all rather expensive. I dont see to many wrecked 05 GTOs laying around for $5000 so that option is a little far out there. Like I said, you compare the swaps using used motors and the cost for the LS2 swap is still going to be ay more.
Didn't just start out asking could a amatuer do an LS swap? With the last 2 pages of pissing you may have convinced him that no one should do a swap of any kind. 
That + a turbo (should i choose to do that later) would be great. Any info on the difficulty level of this swap is welcome. it sounds like the 5spd getrag or perhaps a 6spd would be fitting for that motor.
