well mabey you goof balls are weakining me, next week il be glad to run a 25.9, because these mods acually lower hp and effect the ph balance of the blinker fluid which will cause a bigger loss of HP

and whats tis BS about telling me i cant gap my plugs to .60??? how will that retard the timeing??? it sounds retard ed to me! i just think somebody was looking for another way to make me feel stuid and inferior.

i figure with a very strong ingition, why not make the gap larger? longer/biger spark that will ignite more fuel/air, less emmisions, more hp, better mpg, cant go wrong! that combo is very hard to come by!

my 3 goals..

run a 15.9
20 mpg
pass emisions

the way im going about these 3 cant be beat (with using a 2.8 auto)

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 04-01-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: i figure with a very strong ingition, why not make the gap larger? longer/biger spark that will ignite more fuel/air, less emmisions, more hp, better mpg, cant go wrong! that combo is very hard to come by! my 3 goals.. run a 15.9 20 mpg pass emisions the way im going about these 3 cant be beat (with using a 2.8 auto)

ok, now I'm wondering what is going on here. Above you say you want a 15.9, and below is your initial quote:

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: there nothing serious, but every little bit helps, and i figure if i pull 100lbs out of the car, pass seat, spare tire crap no gas or washer fluid and make my 110lb fiencee run it down the 1/4 mile i should be getting into the 14.9 to 15.5 range right??

so which is it? I think 15.9 is attainable with external mods since the 88GT did about 16 in the 1/4 if I remember correctly. But you still have the 3spd auto which is a dog.

lets put this to rest now. no reason to argue anymore. you take your car to the track and post the timeslip so we can end this.

BTW, what track are you going to go to? I'm here in Lafayette, IN. If it's close enough I can come out myself....let me know

Dave

im going to gateway internatinal raceway, it will be a tuesday, probly round 5pm or so not for sure..its a good 30 to 40 min drive for me, it would be absolutly awsome to have a bunch of people around or bordering IL to come the same day/time with there fieros, 10$ to watch 15$ to race.

well il accept a 16.4, but my heart is set on 15.9 or less, il agree that the mods arent crap and dont add up to much, but im just crossing my fingers and hopeing., didnt mean to tick any one off...il back down when you guys prove me wrong, but if i prove you wrong, then bow down to your leader lol. j/k

well i gues you are ALL firmilar with my name by now , you probly roll your eyes every time you see my name on a post, im sure il earn respect if i achieve my goals.

well this thred is pretty much grounded, il post my slips when i get them, il make a post giving a date/time when im going to go, and il go like 3 days after that (so if you want to come you can kinda plan a trip lol)

thanks for your suport
and for you whom doubt..i oata fart a chilly bean skid mark across your face j/k lol

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: im going to gateway internatinal raceway, it will be a tuesday, probly round 5pm or so not for sure..its a good 30 to 40 min drive for me, it would be absolutly awsome to have a bunch of people around or bordering IL to come the same day/time with there fieros, 10$ to watch 15$ to race.

that's the same deal that we have in Indy. I went down there once. I know you're on the far west side of Illinois, so is this track east of where you live?

I would consider coming by and meeting you at the track sometime if it's not a far drive from here. I had a great time last time I went to Indy.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: and whats tis BS about telling me i cant gap my plugs to .60??? how will that retard the timeing??? it sounds retard ed to me! i just think somebody was looking for another way to make me feel stuid and inferior.

it takes more energy/longer for the spark to jump a larger gap - you might get a larger spark but it will be slightly slower and not as hot without a serious ignition system upgrade - like an MSD 6A, jacob, etc a performance ignition module isnt gonna do squat

everything you are talking about doing i've done - tried every possible tuning, did a lot of it to 3.4 which is the same thing only bored and stroked.. without atleast an upgraded intake you are going to be sorely disapointed

but please don't take any experienced peoples word for it - spend you time and money doing it and learning the hard way - I know i did

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: ... and for you whom doubt..i oata fart a chilly bean skid mark across your face j/k lol

Now that is funny!

Good luck on your quest for pour in, fast bolt on horse power. But I think you will be disappointed.

hmmm...i got smoked by a brand new caviler today, the "off the line wasnt fair" but i think he pulled on me enough to say i lost, im sure theres a probable reason there, he had mods, or my car wasnt running right, thees no way i just stright up go beat by that econo beater pos!, yeah gateway is acually in missouri i think, or st. louis one of the 2... i should get my modual and coil monday! .

for ignition il have

msd coil
msd modual
accel 8mm wires
copper plugs
accel copper dist cap/rotor
new pick up coil

a .60 gap should be perfect., mabey a .58, yeah il gap em .58 and see how that does.

Gateway is on your side of the river in Madison, IL on rt 203. Its about 5 min. from downtown St. Louis
Run it! I hear they serve humble pie over there…

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: hmmm...i got smoked by a brand new caviler today, the "off the line wasnt fair" but i think he pulled on me enough to say i lost, im sure theres a probable reason there, he had mods, or my car wasnt running right, thees no way i just stright up go beat by that econo beater pos!, yeah gateway is acually in missouri i think, or st. louis one of the 2... i should get my modual and coil monday! . for ignition il have msd coil msd modual accel 8mm wires copper plugs accel copper dist cap/rotor new pick up coil a .60 gap should be perfect., mabey a .58, yeah il gap em .58 and see how that does.

The new ignition system isn't going to gain much horsepower (maybe .5 to 1hp). Especially with the larger gap which may have actually lost power.
Instead of the little module you installed in the distributor, You should have bought the full MSD ignition with the multi-spark. Then you would actually gain some horsepower.
You lost because a Cavalier is about the same weight and the "econo-beater" was running a 4-cly engine that has 140hp stock.

i think you have two indicators that your car isnt running right.

first one would be that you have very bad gasmilage. you should be in the upper 20s for mpg. i get 31 on highway and 25 in town.

the second would be that you lost to the cav. if you have the 4 or 5 speed u should be able to take pretty much any 4 banger off the line.

i would have taken him off the line, but he started in front of me, same lane, light turned green and i heard him squeel the tires, so i then punched it and pursued him, he just slightly pulled away from me., i know i could of had em if we were lined up and i knew he was gona get-it like that., im still running stock ignition right now, my parts are waiting for the coil and modual before i install them., all of thoes mods i listed are still in a box, ececpt for the 1.6 rockers., do you think once i install the upgraded ignition that it will quit running out of juice at 4,000 rpm, like the stock componets are rated?

I run low 16's with my auto 2.8, with lots of milage, and still beat my buddy's z24 140 hp 2000 cavalier, your car must be running rough man. I will always pull three of 4 car lengths on him, and when we shut down at 140km/h he's pretty much right beside me. Good luck running low 15's.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: hmmm...i got smoked by a brand new caviler today, the "off the line wasnt fair" but i think he pulled on me enough to say i lost, im sure theres a probable reason there, he had mods, or my car wasnt running right, thees no way i just stright up go beat by that econo beater pos!,.

------------------
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT
Auto, soon to be 5 spd Getrag from 88 z24, Best 1/4 = 16.1 at 83mph, mods, wires, CRX intake, and power pulley. Planning Turbo 2.8 swap for a little more umph!!!!

Bought for 2500$ Canadian.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: a .60 gap should be perfect., mabey a .58, yeah il gap em .58 and see how that does.

more than a 1/2" gap? I wouldn't go over a 1/2"....lol
with an MSD coil, I run a 0.065 gap. works out fine. the 4cyl Fiero is stock gapped at 0.065 using the same plug.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: do you think once i install the upgraded ignition that it will quit running out of juice at 4,000 rpm, like the stock componets are rated?

The problem isn't the ignition, its the airflow. The stock intake manifolds cannot flow enough air for the engine, especially above 4,300 RPM or so. Your options are to have your manifolds ported out, or get a Trueleo High Flow intake manifold.

Here is a quick easy cheap mod that you can try at the track.
If you don't see any improvement just hook it back up.

Remove the plug from your Air intake temp sensor (located on the air filter canister, should be a 2 wire connector).
Buy a 100 kohm resister stick one end of it into one side of the connector and the other end in the other side.
Do not hook the connector back up. I place a piece of electrical tape over the resister and the connector to make sure it doesn't fall out.
You may be surprised with the results.

are you yanking my chain? what the reister sopoesed to do? trick the comp? any more opions on this? what are the benifits and downfalls?, that sounds like my kinda cheap trick, but id probly keep it like that all the time., need more info on that one, where can i get that resister, and why 100 ohm? would a different resister make a difference?, but yeah my porformance issure may be from over advanced timeing, im going to take a gun to it soon to see whats up., i didnt get my ignition stuf today, hopefully tomorrow or the next day.

any one have any info about hoking up a "switch" to use a 160* thermostat?

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: are you yanking my chain? what the reister sopoesed to do? trick the comp? any more opions on this? what are the benifits and downfalls?, that sounds like my kinda cheap trick, but id probly keep it like that all the time., need more info on that one, where can i get that resister, and why 100 ohm? would a different resister make a difference?, but yeah my porformance issure may be from over advanced timeing, im going to take a gun to it soon to see whats up., i didnt get my ignition stuf today, hopefully tomorrow or the next day. any one have any info about hoking up a "switch" to use a 160* thermostat?

It fools the computer into thinking the outside air is colder than it is, so it adds more fuel. You get a little more power, horrible gas milage, and if you run it long enough, your engine will start knocking (takes a long time, but it will happen).

REALLY!!? well il have ta just do this little tricky, but i think the stock air system is to restrictive to add any power from extra fuel right? it might make it lose power. but i dont know?, air system meaning lower manifold ect.. not air box.
so its a 100 K OHM risister??? or a 1000 ohm resister? or a 100 kohm resister?? which is it, dumb question but i want to get er right the first time., hmm ive never heard of this being tried here, hey jeremy what you think?

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 04-04-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: REALLY!!? well il have ta just do this little tricky, but i think the stock air system is to restrictive to add any power from extra fuel right? it might make it lose power. but i dont know?, air system meaning lower manifold ect.. not air box. so its a 100 K OHM risister??? or a 1000 ohm resister? or a 100 kohm resister?? which is it, dumb question but i want to get er right the first time., hmm ive never heard of this being tried here, hey jeremy what you think?

The main problem is the upper intake manifold....the red one on top. It flows very poorly at upper RPM.

If you want to make any significant improvement in your engine with the stock intake, you need to have the throttle body bored and matched to the upper intake (plenum). Then you need to port/gasket match the middle and lower intakes.

Now you're good up to the heads. It would help to have them ported out. Now on to the exhaust, the manifolds need porting as well.

With all of that, you still won't have it that great. The most important step needed to take advantage of all of the above is to change out your cam to something more agressive.

In the end, you're still kind of screwed because even with the upper intake ported/TB bored, it is still the bottleneck once everything is opened up. FrancisT here on PFF sells a nice replacement...it will run $600 last time I checked.

For me it never ends and the $$$ gets to be more and more. After a while you realize you can do a swap cheaper.

Reality: fast = expensive, plain and simple

if only i could find the big rolly eyes icon, youd get it lol, i could never see myself doing all of that ework for 10 hp, id just drop in a big O motor first, never a caddy 4.9 junk! everybody uses them!, im just looking to make the 2.8 do its HO job of being the HO 2.8

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: i could never see myself doing all of that ework for 10 hp,

All of the above would add up to much more than 10hp, but most people don't do it because they realize a swap is cheaper.

If you want your 2.8 to move, you're going to have to make internal changes. There is no way around it unless you want to spray nitrous into it.

welcome to the Fiero 2.8

good luck with whatever you decide to do
Dave

Hahahahah,
i owe you one

mumble mumble mumble

Understand and agree with the replies thus far. The top power limitations of the 2.8 are the weak, no duration-having camshaft and MOST importantly...the intake flows NO air. Grab a Super Chevy or Hot Rod mag...you WILL find at least one article pertaining to airflow...the more the better. An engine is an air pump. If you limit the in, you limit the out(put) Just remember, the airflow mods will need to be matched with more fuel (after an extent) and TA DAAAA! less fuel economy.
You can spend hours porting the intake and heads and putting a back-cut on the valves, or do a swap. People wreck cars every day and sell what is left...most of the time cheap! And the difference in time spent is not much different if planned well

John

I disagree with Ditch, you don't have to tear down your engine to get decent power out of it, nor is a swap is the most cost effective way to go. With one of our manifolds you'll think you have another engine and at $600 it has to be cheeper and a heck of lot easier (a few hours to install) than doing a swap. Just ask anyone using the high flow how their car runs now. Power is all about air flow. Funny, we have quite a few manifolds on 3.4s, so that swap still left something to be desired.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: I disagree with Ditch, you don't have to tear down your engine to get decent power out of it, nor is a swap is the most cost effective way to go.

What I meant by "teardown" was replacing big parts...intake included. I guess I should have made that more clear since most refer to teardown as removing internals. I just want to educate him on what he will need to do to get the times he wants.

Lets not forget too, "decent power" is a relative term. We all have our own idea of what decent power is. He wants to get into the low 15's with a bunch of simple mods (listed in his first post) and that will NEVER happen.

No disrespect, but I have to disagree about the swap statement. If you're going for significant power gains, the 2.8 can do it but you can get that power and even more thru a swap. For mild gains, maybe it would be ok to stick with the 2.8.

quote Originally posted by 88 formula: mumble mumble mumble .

What is this supposed to mean? I suggest you take that attitude you have out to the track and race that "fast" 2.8 you have. A good taste of reality is the only thing that is going to get it in your head, and you'll get it when you see that timeslip. Believe me, it's going to be very disappointing. Are you going to post the timeslip?

If you want to re-invent the wheel go for it.

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 04-05-2005).]

i met reality when i thought my stock minivan would run a 16.5, then i took it and it ran a 19!!!, well another delima is that , well yeah ive read up on the 600$ manifold, looks kinda cool, im sure it performs well, but i have a mint condition 88 silver formula! i dont want to go altering its looks, i really dont want the msd coil because its different than stock (looks different), judjes at car shows frown opon stuf like that, so im tring to "secretly" mod it

and the mumble mumble mumble was a bump, i couldent think of a reply at the time. no attutide

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: i met reality when i thought my stock minivan would run a 16.5, then i took it and it ran a 19!!!, well another delima is that , well yeah ive read up on the 600$ manifold, looks kinda cool, im sure it performs well, but i have a mint condition 88 silver formula! i dont want to go altering its looks, i really dont want the msd coil because its different than stock (looks different), judjes at car shows frown opon stuf like that, so im tring to "secretly" mod it

Car Shows??? First, The only time I've seen specific judges for a car show are the "concourse" shows where the car has to be 100% pristine and totally stock.
Every other car show I have been to has "peer" judging, so most of the time a better coil or intake is a good thing.

Second, From your other posts you want to build for performance and now you want a "stock" show car??

If you don't like the looks of the MSD coil, Why didn't you buy the Crane Fireball or Accel? These look and mount like stock.
If you want a totally stock looking car but have more power,
You can just get a 3.4L and it will look 100% stock as well. The only way to tell if it's a 3.4L is to look at the casting of the actual engine block as a matter of fact, The 3.4L uses the EXACT same heads as the 2.8L.
The larger displacement and a decent cam will gain you 20-40 hp and a lot more torque. This will put you in the low 15's and possibly the high 14's if you build it correctly and still look like a 100% stock 2.8L. Way more power than your little "secret" bolt-ons.

If you're going for the 'pure stock look' that's another ball game and often precludes or at least makes additional HP a lot harder to achieve. If your car is that mint you can still modify it without devaluving it as long as everything is just a bolt-on (no cutting and welding etc), such will still hurt in a show car stock class of cause.
What I meant by decent power is not having your engine run out of steam at only 4,500 rpm. I guess I just get tied of hearing people trash the 2.8 when all it needs is a beter intake. If you drove a Fiero wih a stock 2.8 and then got in one with another stock 2.8 and the beter manifold, drove that, and didn't know what was under the hood, you would likely never guess it was NA 2.8. It's all about volumetric effectency, more CFM.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: It fools the computer into thinking the outside air is colder than it is, so it adds more fuel. You get a little more power, horrible gas milage, and if you run it long enough, your engine will start knocking (takes a long time, but it will happen).

My suggestion was to try it at the track, I didn't recommend using it all the time. Yes it does fool the computer, whether it helps or not I havn't tried it. If you are going to the track you could give it a try since the resister is probably iunder a $1.00 (get them at radio Shack)
And it is 100 kohms you want...this is what is suppose to work best with the 2.8.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: I disagree with Ditch, you don't have to tear down your engine to get decent power out of it, nor is a swap is the most cost effective way to go. With one of our manifolds you'll think you have another engine and at $600 it has to be cheeper and a heck of lot easier (a few hours to install) than doing a swap. Just ask anyone using the high flow how their car runs now. Power is all about air flow. Funny, we have quite a few manifolds on 3.4s, so that swap still left something to be desired.

No disrespect intended but I disagree. I have great respect for your intake and am thinking about getting one. I am still kicking around doing a TDC swap but if I did stay with the pushrod engine I would most certainly get your intake for it. However, onto my point for posting, an intake alone will not make enough of a difference in a 2.8 to make it better than most any of the swaps out there. You need to do other things to the engine as well to make any real improvements. What Ditch mentioned was doing many mods together to get a significant increase in power on the 2.8 and he's correct. Lets say your intake gives a stock 2.8 14 more HP for example. Is that enough to outweigh the power a swap will yeild? Not for most it wouldn't be. You need several mods working together to achieve any real gains. I have an article testing the 272 cam in a Fiero 2.8 showing a 15HP gain on the dyno. Ad that to your intake plus, ported exhaust manifolds (7HP), pulley (4-5 maybe), ported heads (7-10), and a good exhaust system like the Borla (7HP dyno proven gain) and now you've got a pretty good increase in power output. You can't just throw on one item and expect it to make am miracle when it comes to the 2.8. You need several items/mods to make a real difference. The engine does respond well to mods but you need to not skip anything if you want some real noticable improvments.
Even with all these mods you're still talking about an output around 200 give or take. Most of the swaps do put out more than that stock. For exmaple; the Caddy and TDC swaps are about the cheapest easiest swap around and both put out 200 or more in stock form. Both of these swaps require a custom exhaust system which puts their output over stock as soon as they're put into a Fiero. I wont even go into how many mods are available for these engines to give them even more power than that.
I'm certainly not trashing the 2.8/3.4 pushrod builds. I'm stuck between building another pushrod 2.8/3.4 engine or doing a TDC swap myself in fact. Part of my wanting to keep the pushrod motor has to do with the new intake Francess has made in fact and I know these engines can put out some decent power IF you did it right and don't skimp on any of the mods. You can't just throw a few bolt ons onto the engine and expect it to be a firebreather is all I'm saying and I also see Ditch's point that he's trying to make. Different strokes for different folks.
As for the silver formula guy....you seriously need to learn some things about engines before you start talking about modding it. Be a man and fess up that you don't know (we all know you don't already anyway) and start to learn from this place from people who actually do know about engines so you can make some informed decisions about what to do to make your car faster instead of looking foolish and wasting your money on things that wont work. I'd be happy to help you all I can. Feel free to email or PM me anytime and I'll help you as much as I can.
Edit for typo.

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[This message has been edited by Dave Gunsul (edited 04-05-2005).]

well i had my timeing profesianally checked, ready for this.. i had it at 18*!!!!!! it wasnt even on the end of the timing marker!, i bumped it back down to 12*, i didnt notice a difference in power, but it idles alot better now!!!, wow i thoght it was at 13* not 18*!!! well thats fixed, and i got my msd coil and ignition modual in the mail today, already installed them, i have to go to work now so il post results later tonight. if there is any to post lol, i still need to get better spark plugs (i have platinum curently) and gap them larger.

Well put dave, that is about the best explanation of the situation I could've even thought i'd see. + for you! (93)

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 04-05-2005).]

, well looks like next tuesday will be track time, not for sure tho, i wasnt really able to get on it much today, and i havent gaped out my spark plugs yet, il do it tomorrow mornig and cokme back with my results, its looking good so far, not 100$ good, but good.

I have been keeping an eye on this post, but I dont recall anything being said about exhaust... Couldnt that get a few horsepower? I mean, other than the high flow cat. what about a high flow muffler, or even bigger pipes! Definatly port out the manifolds - still look stock - but actually flow enough to talk about, and its not too hard!

***of course... even better results after intake has been upgraded***

I don't disagree with much of what you said, thing is though, it's not simply the HP gain that makes the manifold so signifcant an item, it's moreover the added rpm range. 4,500 rpm is way too low to start running out of power and it proforms well throughout the rpm range. Many mods limit your gain to a narrow rpm range. You get power but it's peeking and not that useable. The dohc is greate way to go if you want more potential, but then that engine too could use a few things to make it into a real screamer, just look at the interest on the posting about doing a manifold for it. Frankly I don't think the 3.4 pushrod swap alone will give you a beter setup than a 2,8 with a hi flo. Ask the fellows with the 3.4s what it did for their engines.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: I don't disagree with much of what you said, thing is though, it's not simply the HP gain that makes the manifold so signifcant an item, it's moreover the added rpm range. 4,500 rpm is way too low to start running out of power and it proforms well throughout the rpm range. Many mods limit your gain to a narrow rpm range. You get power but it's peeking and not that useable. The dohc is greate way to go if you want more potential, but then that engine too could use a few things to make it into a real screamer, just look at the interest on the posting about doing a manifold for it. Frankly I don't think the 3.4 pushrod swap alone will give you a beter setup than a 2,8 with a hi flo. Ask the fellows with the 3.4s what it did for their engines.

I think you kind of missed my point slightly or I'm not reading your reply correctly. What I'm saying, and what I think Ditch was trying to say, is that most of the swaps available for the Fiero will put out more power than even a modded 2.8 even in their stock form. As I said above; the Caddy 4.9 and TDC engines put out 200 or more HP in their stock form where as, with a 2.8/3.4 you're having to use every mod available to just get them to the same point that these stock engines are already putting out.
Also; I can tell you that my 2.8 does not lose power at 4500. Mine pulls well up to it's redline before it really starts to die out on power. I have all the stock intakes ported and throttle body bored out not to mention exhaust, ignition, pulley, and rocker work done as well. Now I don't have any of the real big mods like a cam and ported heads done so I'm certainly not doing what I could be doing on power but it does pull really well for what it is. So, basically, my engine does pull up high, in fact it pulls harder as the rpms climb, but it's no match for my friend Fieromadmans TDC. Not even close. Now I don't have some of the bigger mods like a cam and ported heads done but, even if I do ad those, would I really equal a TDC or Caddy output? Well, I might be able to hit their stock outputs with all those mods to my 2.8 done but then what? The Caddy and TDC would still be stock with plenty more to be added to them to make them quicker where as I'd be at the top unless I went with forced induction or NOS. Forced induction or NOS isn't really worth bringing up though since it can be added to the swapped engines rasing their output as well. The point I'm struggling to make here, and the one I think Ditch was also trying to make, is that a swap to a bigger motor may end up being more cost effective depending on what the owner is looking for his/her car to do.
I certainly do agree with you that the stock set up, intakewise, is restrictive and your intake gives us a lot more possabilities for power. This is especially true on the 3.4 pushrod engine trying to breath through intakes that are restrictive on a much smaller engine. I think with your intake we'll finally start to see some pushrod 3.4's making some decent assaults on the 1/4. BUT, an intake on a 3.4, even as good as it is, isn't going to magically change that engine into a firebreather. It's going to take a lot of mods, especially the big ones like cam, heads, exhaust, and your intake working together to do that which was my point in the first place.
As for swaps, think of it this way; if you're going to add a cam to a 2.8 you're pretty much looking at rebuilding it anyway. Most of the 2.8's are high enough in mileage to be needing a rebuild by now. So you ad the cost of either rebuilding a 2.8 or buying a 3.4 and throwing in a cam and adding all those mods to it to end up with what some of these other motors are putting out in stock form. If you price some of these engines that can be swapped into the Fiero vs building up a pushrod V6 you'll be surprised at how close it really is moneywise.
Now, for some, that makes sense. It's a lot of fun to build up what the car originally came with (make the best of what you have) but only a fool would be blind to what these swaps have to offer. There's a lot of other pluses and minuses to swaps or staying with the original pushrod V6 as well. I'd go into them but I've already rambled on enough I think.
Sorry for the length, just trying to explain myself as well as I can.

easy question, whos the guy selling/ making these intakes for 600$???, if its a guy posting repeditly on this thred talking about how good they are...it sounds like hes tring to make a few sells, advertising his pruduct insteed of helping., which i cant blaim him, but damn

btw, i really really like the 3.4 to fiero intake and exaust manifold conversion to gain the 40 to 50hp .5 liters and alot of TQ, ive been researching that over and over, but my motor is just to fresh for a swap right now, il never be able to find a 3.4 with 60k miles for cheap/free

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 04-06-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: easy question, whos the guy selling/ making these intakes for 600$???, if its a guy posting repeditly on this thred talking about how good they are...it sounds like hes tring to make a few sells, advertising his pruduct insteed of helping., which i cant blaim him, but damn btw, i really really like the 3.4 to fiero intake and exaust manifold conversion to gain the 40 to 50hp .5 liters and alot of TQ, ive been researching that over and over, but my motor is just to fresh for a swap right now, il never be able to find a 3.4 with 60k miles for cheap/free

Its FrancisT, and the manifold is worth the money. I don't know of another bolt on mod that will free up 15 wheel horsepower.

As for the second part, I have no idea what you're talking about. The 3.4 will get you 20 more horsepower, and the manifolds free up about 8.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: easy question, whos the guy selling/ making these intakes for 600$???, if its a guy posting repeditly on this thred talking about how good they are...it sounds like hes tring to make a few sells, advertising his pruduct insteed of helping., which i cant blaim him, but damn

Look up his thread on the new intake here in tech. He's advertising it, sure, but that intake is proven to be a worthwhile mod to the 2.8/3.1/3.4 pushrod motors. It is a major step towards making these engines breathe easier. They have dyno charts available as well. If I didn't have a carb on my 3.4 already I would have bought one of these the day they came out. If I ever build up a 3.4 I'll likely go with this intake.

I say $600 is a steal for an intake like this...especially since it's your only option other than carb.

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 04-06-2005).]