heres what ive done...

1. 1.6 rockers 5 hp gain
2. advanced timeing . 7 hp gain
3. accel spark plug wires .2 hp gain
4. accel dist rotor .2 hp gain
5. copper spark plugs .1 hp gain
6. mobil 1 full synthetic oil 5w20 (repalced 10w40 conventinal crap) .8 hp gain
7. high flow cat 3.5 hp gain
8. removed water seperater shitz and giggles gain 0hp
9. K&N air Filter 2 hp gain
10. MSD ignition modual .4 hp gain
11. MSD ignition coil .4 hp gain
12. will remove thermastat for a run or 2
13. a secret of mine 3hp gain
all for 360 $$

there nothing serious, but every little bit helps, and i figure if i pull 100lbs out of the car, pass seat, spare tire crap no gas or washer fluid and make my 110lb fiencee run it down the 1/4 mile i should be getting into the 14.9 to 15.9 range right??

were talking 2560 lb car with 158 hp like 128 to the wheels.

this should do it!, il run er soon and give you a time slip

input??
what should an auto no options 88 formula run stock?? 17's? 16.7?

edit: god damn this thred got way outa hand!

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 04-08-2005).]

well, first off, I'd like to point out a few facts that might help you out. A stock 88 Formula that has no options and has an auto should be around 16's, not 17's. Also, while it is prooven that lighter weight oils help, im not going to even comment on the horsepower claim. I dont even really want to comment on your other gains.. but for example a 3.4 pushrod swap will only be putting out around (there are excamples to proove that this might not be accurate, but im going to say ABOUT) 155 horsepower... un-tuned. As far as I know, Orief had the highest horsepower N/A 60 degree pushrod v6.. and that was 223 horsepower. To say that you got almost half of his gains on minor intake/exhaust/ignition and other various mods is a little bit far fetched. A pretty well fully built 3.4 pushrod was in the high 14's and that was after some good tuning and more mods than you have. That is not to say that you cant run that fast, as there are exceptions, but I am not seeing it.

------------------
REMEMBER: If you cant win the race you loose the argument!!

3.4 DOHC Motor Swap-14.7 in the 1/4 mile with no hook-up, crumby exhaust and automatic chip.
Better exhaust, chip, cam retarding, and driver to come... I'm feeling lucky!
www.geocities.com/j_depies

OK, I also have a question about HP gains.

With these mods, what gains can I realistically expect:

- K&N air filter
- 5W20 oil
- MSD Blaster Ignition coil
- Heat-coated Sprint manifolds and Xover pipe
- Ocelot exhaust
- Free-flow cat (Fiero Store)
- Power pulley kit (Fiero Store)
- Red STI spark plug wires

All this on a completely rebuilt but otherwise stock V6.

not sure where you get your gain numbers. but, many advertised gains are based on using high output, large displacement motors. having a 400 hp motor make 4 more hp is a 1% increase. barely readable & when applied to a 130 hp motror, much less. also, many of your gains are overlapping gains. accell wires, accell dist, spark plugs, MSD igntion module, MSD coil - you are not getting 10 hp from your ignition. the only thing that will help is the coil. you need high power igntion to spark thru dense fuel/air mix. 9:1 compression is not a dense fuel air mix. while I agree you got a good list there, your expectations are a bit high.

------------------
1985 Fiero SE - Plain Red V6 Coupe
3.1 Crane 272 MSD 4.10-4spd
D.A.M.M. - Drunks Against Mad Mothers

Here we go again. This guy is nucking futs. Your HP gain claims are wishful thinking at best.

Yellowstone - I would guess that with your mods you will free up 10 -15 Hp.

Mainly because of these
- Heat-coated Sprint manifolds and Xover pipe
- Ocelot exhaust
- Free-flow cat (Fiero Store)
- Power pulley kit (Fiero Store)

yep 10-15 is about right

the cast iron pushrod v6 just does not take well to mods

not like the newer 60* v6's the 3100,3400,dohc all love mods

Wow if I could add horsepower like that our 55 Bel Air would be running 8s...Yet its stuck runnning a flat 12 with a blown 406.

------------------

well i didnt promise anything, il get the slips before i really go gabbing my mouth, this is what i have to work with..

my van runs a 16.5 in a 1/4 (slips), i have not done the MSD coil or modual, or my "secret" yet and i raced my friend whom was driving my van and i smoked it by a good 3 to 4 car lenghs by about 85mph (85 shut it down race), i think mabey i might have a crazy 2.8 that makes over stock HP, wont claim that till i get the slips tho

but hey if its not fast at least my mpg will go up, its already went up from 16.2 mpg (when i got it, and it had a fresh tune up) now its getting 18.3 mpg, this is before the 2 MSD items im still waiting for in the mail, thoes 2 should bring er up to 19mpg, shooting for 20!!!
oh and when i get the 2 MSD things im going to gap my spark plugs at .55 or .60, havent decided

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 03-31-2005).]

There are no secrets to performance, no matter what it is, I guarantee you that it has either been done, discussed before, or a myth.

My guess is that it is a resistor in the IAT sensor.

with just the MSD coil, I was able to gap my plugs to 0.065 - note the extra 0 - lol - 1/2" gap is a bit wide
this is also the STOCK gap the the 4 banger Fiero, which uses the same plugs
also, with the milage - good job getting it up to 20. not an easy feat for a 2.8 automatic.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: heres what ive done... 1. 1.6 rockers 5 hp gain 2. advanced timeing 7 hp gain 3. accel spark plug wires 2 hp gain 4. accel dist rotor 0.2 hp gain 5. copper spark plugs 0.1 hp gain 6. mobil 1 full synthetic oil 5w20 (repalced 10w40 conventinal crap) 8 hp gain 7. high flow cat 3.5 hp gain 8. removed water seperater shitz and giggles gain 0hp 9. K&N air Filter 5 hp gain 10. MSD ignition modual 4 hp gain 11. MSD ignition coil 4 hp gain 12. will remove thermastat for a run or 2 13. a secret of mine 3hp gain all for 360 $$ there nothing serious, but every little bit helps, and i figure if i pull 100lbs out of the car, pass seat, spare tire crap no gas or washer fluid and make my 110lb fiencee run it down the 1/4 mile i should be getting into the 14.9 to 15.5 range right?? were talking 2560 lb car with 178 hp like 141 to the wheels. this should do it!, il run er soon and give you a time slip input?? what should an auto no options 88 formula run stock?? 17's? 16.7?

Well back to reality:

1. Maybe 4-5hp.
2. Maybe .4-.5hp (could actually cause a loss depending on how far you advance it.)
3. none
4. none
5. none
6. maybe .5hp
7. 1-2hp (the restriction is in the exhaust manifolds.)
8. none
9. Maybe .5
10. and 11. 2-3hp (they work together)
12. Maybe 1hp
13. -2hp (contrary to popular teenage opinion, Stickers do not increase horsepower. )

Total gain for $360 = 7hp. So provided your engine still has decent compression, valves are clean and seal well, clean injectors, and all sensors running good. You might see 147hp. An auto/V-6 Fiero runs around 16.5 so with a 7hp gain, You should run around 16.3- 16.4.

With $360 You could:
$120 Darrell Morse TB/Plenum bore and port = 5-6hp.
$50 local shop, port exhaust manifolds = 2-3hp
$80 Power Pulley kit = about 5-6hp
$0.00 remove catalytic converter = 1-2hp (works with ported exhaust manifolds.)
$50 CRX CAI 1-2hp (works with ported/bored intake.)

I just spent $60 less and gained more than twice the horsepower.
If you want more power stick to proven things intead of the advertising claims of regular products.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-31-2005).]

This an interesting thread. I've done some of the above mentioned mods myself and was wondering what my gains would be.
1. Ported the exhaust manifolds
2. Ported the middle intake manifold
3. MSD coil.
4. Timing is set at 12*
5. Cat delete
6. Rebuilt distributor with all new electronics
7. NGK UR5 plugs gapped at .045
8. Water seperator deleted and K&N air filter installed
9. Full synthic oil with K&N oil filter

And my biggest mod to the engine bay that I'm sure added 5-10hp, 3 new stickers on my decklid

Don't know if I've increased my HP or not but it sure does run nice.

[This message has been edited by paulcal (edited 03-31-2005).]

So using his method of calculating HP gains, our manifold will turn a stock 2.8 into a hemi stomper. Newbees always tend to think it's really all that easy. But then, I guess at one time or another we all kind of thought that way at first. And using a K&N will only help, if it's either put in the stock air box or ducted to some cool air. Ditching the air box and putting a cone type K&N under the hood in that hot air likely lose power not make more!
Oh, and I disagree, a 2.8 - 3.4 push rod has a lot of potential, if you just change the intake. And no, I'm not saying that it's better then a DOHC, but it does have a heck of a lot more potential than most folks think. The bad rap was earned mainly becuase for years there was no decent intake available.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Well back to reality: 1. Maybe 4-5hp. 2. Maybe .4-.5hp (could actually cause a loss depending on how far you advance it.) 3. none 4. none 5. none 6. maybe .5hp 7. 1-2hp (the restriction is in the exhaust manifolds.) 8. none 9. Maybe .5 10. and 11. 2-3hp (they work together) 12. Maybe 1hp 13. -2hp (contrary to popular teenage opinion, Stickers do not increase horsepower. ) Total gain for $360 = 7hp. So provided your engine still has decent compression, valves are clean and seal well, clean injectors, and all sensors running good. You might see 147hp. An auto/V-6 Fiero runs around 16.5 so with a 7hp gain, You should run around 16.3- 16.4. With $360 You could: $120 Darrell Morse TB/Plenum bore and port = 5-6hp. $50 local shop, port exhaust manifolds = 2-3hp $80 Power Pulley kit = about 5-6hp $0.00 remove catalytic converter = 1-2hp (works with ported exhaust manifolds.) $50 CRX CAI 1-2hp (works with ported/bored intake.) I just spent $60 less and gained more than twice the horsepower. If you want more power stick to proven things intead of the advertising claims of regular products.

owned...............k sorry it was just so very well put.

------------------
86 bright red 2m6 nothcie
4.9/4 speed swap coming soon as it can

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: but hey if its not fast at least my mpg will go up, its already went up from 16.2 mpg (when i got it, and it had a fresh tune up) now its getting 18.3 mpg, this is before the 2 MSD items im still waiting for in the mail, thoes 2 should bring er up to 19mpg, shooting for 20!!! oh and when i get the 2 MSD things im going to gap my spark plugs at .55 or .60, havent decided

that means you seriously needed a tuneup - I used to get 20mpg out of my 2.8 that only had good compression because it had about a 1/32" of carbon buildup in the combustion chamber raising the leaking compression to stock settings. And I garanteee you i drove it harder than about anybody you've met - I ripped mounts apart, I broke mounting bracket bosses off the side of the trans case. I'd roll back in reverse, slam it into 1st and whip the car around while burning out (J turn). I drove the piss out of that car and i'd beat a 90's turbo mr2 up to about 60 then it'd lose.

basing HP gains off of a street race against your buddy in your van is like saying that my car makes 300hp because I got to the end of the street faster than a grapefruit that my buddy bowled down the road.

oh and gapping your sparkplugs oversized will retard the timing.. you will have to advance timing to compensate for the slow spark at higher rpm - but at lower rpm it'd be too advanced.. I don't recommend going more than .02 off of the stock gap

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-31-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Francis T: So using his method of calculating HP gains, our manifold will turn a stock 2.8 into a hemi stomper. Newbees always tend to think it's really all that easy. But then, I guess at one time or another we all kind of thought that way at first...

True. 17 yrs ago I added the HP gains for a cam, roller tip rockers, porting, and all bs out there I did then. I thought (& beleived) I was gonna have about 50 HP more. Yeah right. I didn't know not even a 1% of what I know now. HotRod, CarCraft, Chevy High Performance etc. for 10 yrs was a great education. Read them. you will learn a LOT even if they talk about Hemis and SBCs Also something I learned quickly is only and only to beleive to dyno and track #s. The rest is just bench racing. Unfortunately you see very little of that on this forum

------------------
Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 03-31-2005).]

Our Finale with a 3.4 had everything you listed as well as NO cat, a spin tech muffler, and WCF headers. It dyno'd at 137 hp at the wheels. Rare88's Formula at that time had the same stuff along with a bored Morse TB and dyno'd about 138 hp at the wheels on the same day. The mods you have listed will not get a 2.8L to 140+hp at the wheels. Maybe a little over 130 on a good day.

John Stricker

PS, there are no secrets to making power. It's all out there and speed costs, how fast can you afford to go?

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: heres what ive done... 1. 1.6 rockers 5 hp gain 2. advanced timeing 7 hp gain 3. accel spark plug wires 2 hp gain 4. accel dist rotor 0.2 hp gain 5. copper spark plugs 0.1 hp gain 6. mobil 1 full synthetic oil 5w20 (repalced 10w40 conventinal crap) 8 hp gain 7. high flow cat 3.5 hp gain 8. removed water seperater shitz and giggles gain 0hp 9. K&N air Filter 5 hp gain 10. MSD ignition modual 4 hp gain 11. MSD ignition coil 4 hp gain 12. will remove thermastat for a run or 2 13. a secret of mine 3hp gain all for 360 $$

quote Originally posted by Francis T: The bad rap was earned mainly becuase for years there was no decent intake available.

Actually there is an intake avalable that's been around since the 80's. Just nobody thought outside the box.
Now there are 2 intakes. The Carb'd/TBI style (Edelbrock) and the Hi-Flow.

I'm guessing high 15's low to mid 16's. Auto makes the 2.8 seem restrictive, what van do you have that runs 16.5?

------------------
http://formula.cryptnix.com

I think I can get mine into the high 14's if I push it off of a big cliff. That's about as fast as mine is going to get.

Well, I was in the low 15's. With the 2.8 - 4speed Muncie. No CAT, MSD ignition, and CRX intake, 2.9 overbore rebuild.

Here is what I did this past off-season and what I expect.

1. ported exhaust manifolds
2. ported and polished heads
3. roller tipped 1.6 rockers
4. re-worked crossover into 2.5" pipe with no restrictions
5. 2.5" mandrell bent exhaust, no CAT, Moroso racing muffler
6. MSD ignition and MSD coil
7. Vacuum advance distributor (tunable)
8. Edelbrock dual plane intake - Torker II
9. 350 cfm flat track Holley carb
10. Moroso 14" racing air cleaner w/ K&N (really high flow)
11. Mallory racing regulator (60 psi handling, down to 3 psi)
12. New 3/8" fuel lines and new filter
13. 8mm Taylor wires
14. AC delco sparks
15. Clutch upgrade (sintered iron HD unit)
16. New timing chain
17. Lighter wheels
18. Power pulley

I figure 1/2 sec is all I expect. This is an improvement of a minimum 10% intake flow and probably 20% exhaust flow.
Now compare this to the original posting. You will see my point. You don't get much for little $$ and minor mods.

Arn

I forgot, a 180* thermostat, and advance set to 11*

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 03-31-2005).]

Before I installed my Archie 350, I had a 3.4 pushrod motor. For anyone interested the only mods I had were:
ported heads,
ported intake runners and lower intake,
ported exhaust manifolds,
MSD 6A, MSD 8.5 MM wires, MSD coil,
Darrell Moorse ported throttle body,
no cat,
flowmaster muffler on 2" pipes,
1.6 roller tip rocker arms,
Comp Cams valve springs,
k&n air filter,
Ford Mustang 24# fuel injectors,
and a centerforce d/f clutch. (I think thats all).................

I never had it dyno'd, but I do have timeslips of running consecutive 1/4 mile times of 14.7 to 14.8 at 90 to 91 mph.

the van is a 1987 plymoth voyager 3.0l v6 (exact mods as i put on my fiero) and it was also a 3spd auto trans, the van did gain 50 hp from these mods, it went from running a 19.0 to running a 16.5 with these "usless bolt ons", whats funny is that a pt cruser doesnt even run a 19.0!!! the base crappy ones run 20's, but i have time slips, a web site, and videos of the van at the track., that 3.0 sohc garbage mitsu engine started out with 140 hp and 175 TQ, it now makes 190 hp and 240 TQ, with a "good tune up" as you call it. the van wouldent dream of getting 20mpg like my fiero tho, it gets more like 12mpg on a good gay, thats one reason why i bought a fiero.

go to the people on allpar forums, minivan section, they all doubted my and said that thoes mods wouldent get the van past 18's, well there all looking the other way now, go on sign up make a post asking about my van, with its "garbage" for taking mods 3.0l. theyl tell you., and just from driving and feeling the fiero is taking the mods just as well as the van did, both motors started out with near displacement and near hp, the van weighs 700 lbs more than the fiero.

oh btw im not geting the MSD modual, im getting the JEGS modual, i think there the same thing, jegs was cheaper., ever used jegs?

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: oh btw im not geting the MSD modual, im getting the JEGS modual, i think there the same thing, jegs was cheaper., ever used jegs?

You mean ignition module? If so, I dont think it really matters what "performance" brand you use as they all should do the same thing. My suggestion is to go to Napa and get a good factory replacement if you really want a new one...

Sounds pretty cool about the van, congrats. Good luck with the Fiero! Keep us posted, im interested. Oh, btw, a few posts ago ppl were talking about hp vs. money spent... it cost me $780.00 to put that 3.4 in my Fiero ($500 motor from boneyard), sorry, no hp numbers, but it got me into the 14's. The 3.4 is the easiest and cheapest upgrade to get the Fiero running better (just my opinion)

I'll buy 190HP but 240TQ is BS... unless you have a scan of the dyno sheet. I had a 2G Stratus R/T coupe and it had the 3.0L 6G72 24V SOHC and it made 200HP/205TQ stock and with headers, HFC and a CAI with fuel trim tuning it made ~220-230HP at the crank... and the torque actually didn't change much... the 3.0 is no torque monster like an american pushrod V6... Go check out 3GEclipse.org and see what they are doing there, lots of good 3.0 info...

Like I said unless you have dyno sheets what you claim about your older 3.0, we are talking about the same type calculations that you did with your 2.8 mods... this isn't Gran Turismo 4...

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 03-31-2005).]

hey dont knock GT4 best simulater game ever made! lol, ok yeah i dont have TQ proof, but that thing would do a staning burnout no e-brake dry road, i mean smoking em off! with a 2.76 final gear!!! smoking em! 3 speed auto!, no neutral drop .i acually got a 75$ ticket for doing a burnout in it, sucked!, thanks for the congrats on the van, i was very happy with the outcome...if i could pull that 3.0 and stick in in the fiero i already would have..., theres a secret about that 3.0l..but its not nessasary to come to truth there lol., i didnt lie about anything...just left something out hehe...

quote it now makes 190 hp and 240 TQ

quote ok yeah i dont have TQ proof

quote i didnt lie about anything

Unless you dyno your car and it comes out to be 240, you just lied. Now go away, get your high 15 sec 1/4 mile slip, post it, and be done with it. my prediciton is 15.9

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 04-01-2005).]

The biggest restriction to max power on the stock Fiero motor is the intake manifold system. Engines are all about air flow, and the max airflow through the motor is restricted by the intake. When the factory tested the motor it was at the maximum efficency condition of new, broken in, fully tuned and operating at spec. Most of the mods listed here will only serve to bring the motor back to the spec. To move more air, you need to do porting, camshaft, and intake mods.

I bored and stroked my 2.8 into a 3.2 and run a mild cam, but with the stock intake and only porting on the exhaust manifolds. My power at the wheels is 122HP, but as you can see from this chart the power peak is lower than it is for the stock engine. That's due to the stock manifold:

http://www.etrackmasters.com/dyno/jamessa.gif

However, by increasing displacement I increased low end torque dramatically, now I've got over 150 lbs-ft of torque at 1,250 RPM and a nice fat torque curve that makes for fun driving. If I had a better intake system I bet I could add 15-20 HP.

JazzMan

Thanks gazz for making that point. It's so fustrating to read about people doing a zillion things to get more HP, yet staying with the stock or a ported (which only helps slighty) intake. Yeah, the intakes are $600, but what you get back in accross the board power gains, and then there's the simplicity of the install, all of which make it a bargin. Aside from going to really high compression (good luck finding gas for it) if you don't get more CFM in you're not going get too much additional HP out! Can't wait to see a match up between a stock 2.8 Fiero with just the hi flo and one with a stock 3.4 push rod. I'm sure it will open eyes.

wow that one went right over your head! you completly missed the point, the van doesnt have the stock engine!

its a 94'' 3.0l, only a few diferences between the 87 and 94, but my 87 was worn out and the 94'' makes 2 more hp and 1 less TQ than the 87, but basically if you inter change parts from the 87 to the 94 you end up with a TQ monster...il go into more later.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: wow that one went right over your head! you completly missed the point, the van doesnt have the stock engine! its a 94'' 3.0l, only a few diferences between the 87 and 94, but my 87 was worn out and the 94'' makes 2 more hp and 1 less TQ than the 87, but basically if you inter change parts from the 87 to the 94 you end up with a TQ monster...il go into more later.

you seem to be missing one major factor - no matter what you did to that van - its NOT A FIERO ENGINE AND IS NOT COMPARABLE - the fiero will not respond the same way to mods -

edit: just to clarify.. I've been modifying fiero engines for about 8 years and finally gave up and am doing a motor swap to the 3.4TDC - finally something tunable.

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 04-01-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: il run er soon and give you a time slip

Do you know when you're going to get your car to the track?

I do wish you luck, but personally I don't think you're going to get those numbers with an auto tranny behind a 2.8 with the above mods. Every mod you've done is external except for the rockers. That engine just won't flow better than stock without going inside and making changes (porting, cam). There is only one thing external mods like that are good for on their own....gas mileage. Sure, you'll get a small HP increase, but nothing spectacular.

You would be lucky to be getting 15hp total from everything you list. I'm not being ignorant, but we have over 10,000 members here, many of whom have done mods like this and know firsthand what they yield in power. We're talking about fiero's here, not minivans...totally different ballgame, so lets get back to these mods on a Fiero.

Dave

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 04-01-2005).]

Don't forget to throw in one of those Pine tree air fresheners....

at the Fiero 20th, my Fiero was a fresh 3.1, auto trans, roller tip rockers, 2030 cam, K&N, gasket matched intakes, power pulley, ported exhaust manifolds, MSD coil. that did a 16.4. that auto trans is SUCH a time killer. since then, I have switched to a 4-spd manual trans, crane 272 cam, bored throttle body, some head porting, borla exhaust & full MSD igntion. dragstrip opening day is tomarow. hoping for high 14's, expecting low 15's. out of eveything I did, the ONE thing that made the biggest difference was dumping that damn auto trans - it is night & day. not sure if its really that much faster, or just feels it. but I really want the new TrueLeo intake. I think that'll push me into the 14's solid. I've seen so many 2.8/3.1/3.4 build threads. the key to power is the intake. the crank/rods/pistons can goto 7000 RPM, the stock valve train can goto 6000 rpm. the stock intakes goes 5000. the stock igntion goes to 4000. MSD coil is easy - fixes the igntion. aftermarket springs fixes the valve train. that leaves the intake. TrueLeo, carb or boost.

------------------
1985 Fiero SE - Plain Red V6 Coupe
3.1 Crane 272 MSD 4.10-4spd
D.A.M.M. - Drunks Against Mad Mothers

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: and just from driving and feeling the fiero is taking the mods just as well as the van did, both motors started out with near displacement and near hp, the van weighs 700 lbs more than the fiero. oh btw im not geting the MSD modual, im getting the JEGS modual, i think there the same thing, jegs was cheaper., ever used jegs?

First, In order to gain power an engine needs FLOW. The 3.0L being overhead cam design has better FLOW than a cast iron headed 2.8L.
The flow of a 2.8L in stock form is just about perfect for the engine, It's when you mod the engine and try to get more FLOW that the problem of intake restriction comes into play. Second, I don't care how big a cam or rocker ratio you use, A restriction in FLOW is a restriction. Just because the 3.0L and the 2.8L in stock form have similar specs does not mean they will take the same upgrades and gain the same power. They are NOT the same design engine and are in no way compareable. You keep saying that you are going to gain 50hp with your mods. You are doing nothing to increase the FLOW so your mods will do very minimal. The 1.6 rockers give you more lift, But without increasing FLOW thru the intake manifold and/or the exhaust manifold, They won't do much.
This is the 3rd or 4th thread where you claim you can get 50hp out of a 2.8L with minor bolt-ons and everytime everyone tells you, you will not.
So do all your mods and have it dyno'd or run down the track THEN come here and show us how you gained 7-10hp or only ran a 16.4.
Until then, Give it a rest.

I wish I could be at the track to laugh at you!

was that a 3.1 or a bored 2.8?, your 16.4 time is very low, just about everybody sais that the stock 2.8 auto will run that stock., hell car and driver got a 15.7 out of the v6 stock (they didnt specify what trans, but by watching the video it looked to be auto), well just as long as my fiero rruns anything faster than a 16.5 il be happy, i really want to brake into the 15's tho! a 15.9 would be awsome!

btw my K&N filter is in the stock location, the stock setup is better than nessary, and has been proven that the stock setup has absolutly no restriction.

oh whats gasket to port matching???

i noticed that my TB gasket was alot smaller than the bore of my TB so i cut the gasket to perfectly match the throttle body port, is that port matching??? if so then i didnt even mention that as a "mod"

il take it soon, i should be getting in my MSD and JEGS stuff in the mail anytime now.

If you bored the throttle body & didn't bore the plenum then no, you didn't gasket match. Gasket matching is matching the ports to the gasket marks. Here's a couple pics to show what can be removed

Lower to head (to fully benefit the head should be gasket matched too)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/JamesCurtis/IM000121.jpg

Middle to lower (the ports on the lower weren't as bad as the middle)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/JamesCurtis/IM000108a.jpg

Edit: last i knew you said you could easily get a fiero into 14's with those mods, now you started a thread about getting one into the low 15's, and now you say you'll be happy with a 15.9?

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 04-01-2005).]