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LSJ Supercharged Ecotec Swap by ccfiero350
Started on: 05-18-2007 10:00 PM
Replies: 443 (65332 views)
Last post by: Will on 03-22-2019 08:52 AM
fierodeletre
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Report this Post09-20-2007 04:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

has anyone used Roger Thelin's mounts? It looks like he uses the dogbone strut as the upper engine mount... anyone haave any experience using this? wftb, I thought your upper mounts were fabbed to connect to the cradle below, weren't they?

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Flyguyeddy
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Report this Post09-20-2007 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyguyeddyClick Here to Email FlyguyeddySend a Private Message to FlyguyeddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i would just like to know how much they cost

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Edaw 0
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Report this Post09-22-2007 06:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Edaw 0Send a Private Message to Edaw 0Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have a set from him, but it'll be awhile before I can work on the car. Paid $60 for them.
Give him a call, he's real good about getting to you.

[This message has been edited by Edaw 0 (edited 09-22-2007).]

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-22-2007 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Finished up welding the sub frame and time for the first trail fit in a car.



I dropped the V8 from the GT and wheeled the LSJ under it. I have to say the LSJ was way lighter then the iron block V8 by the feel of rolling it around on the dollies. It would be great to wiegh then both at this point. The V8 still has about 30 more lbs. to add with the rest of the intake installed.



Once in, it was appearent the Tsudo headers are not going to work unless I completely remove the trunk wall. Too bad, they look good and are the right size for the motor.



Front clearance is real good so far. But the front sub frame bolts are not in yet and need to go another inch up.



Shock tower clearance is good but does leave a lot of room for a torque strut.




The tranmission butt end also good clearance.



The belt side, also plenty of room. On this particular car I dimpled the car frame a little for more clearance for the V8 lower pully/dampner some time ago.


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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-22-2007 10:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



The OEM cast iron exhuast still could be used.



The subframe is almost in. I need to drop it again and tweek the front ears a tad. I think the doner frame was a little off. The front tongues are about 1/4 squeezed in. I should have checked for square before I started.

I plan on working on it all day so I'll post more picts tonight.

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Wht&BluGT
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Report this Post09-22-2007 12:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wht&BluGTSend a Private Message to Wht&BluGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looks good. Just one question/concern. How hard is it going to be to change the oil on that, isn't the filter under the supercharger?

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Fosgatecavy98
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Report this Post09-22-2007 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Click Here to Email Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You must have the motor back farther, I got the tsudo header in there with about 3-4 inches between it and the trunk wall... but I dont have a supercharger either

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Edaw 0
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Report this Post09-22-2007 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Edaw 0Send a Private Message to Edaw 0Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice work and that header looks reall nice. Any chance of you going with a smaller trunk?

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-22-2007 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The factory oil filter is located under the &^%*#(!) super charger and it takes a (#^(!#$)$ extension just to get the cap off then you got to pull the &*%^$ filter up out of the holder. But it will not fit between the (^#!($ engine and super charger so you have to move it lateraly forward to get it out. Did I mention these are (^*$!)($!))&$!( CARTRIGE ELEMENTS!

I plane on a remote spin on filter as soon as I can.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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niemann99
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Report this Post09-22-2007 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for niemann99Send a Private Message to niemann99Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I notice that the motor is at the stock tilt of 15 degrees toward the rear, if you tilt the motor /trans straight up so that you can use the Tsudo headers, will the supercharger hit the firewall?

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-22-2007 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The motor is tilted back the same as the oil pan pick up. If the pick up is not flat your likely to suck air at some point when the oil moves away the inlet screen.

I set my axles to be parallel to the lower links and horizontal at ride hieght as they are a tad shorter the fiero axles. So the engine is were the axles said everything should be.



I stretched the front mounts out use my trusty ole jack.



I need to see if I can find a better dip stick location. You can still get at it from the back or side but with the deck on it my be a pita.



The aluminum pan is about 3/4" above the lowest point of the OEM steel.



Pully side shows it will be the same effert of the stock belts for change out.



I had wondered about the lid fitting over the cam cover. The ecotec is as tall as the V8. Bit there is good clearance here too.



Over all it was good fit first time in. I very pleased except for the cool Tsudo headers. I'm not thrilled about the cast iron one, and I was trying to save the trunk floor. I like to drive the car to track events so I need a little room for all the stuff. And on the other hand I HAVE thought of losing what weight I can by completely cutting the trunk out and making a tubular X-brace to replace the structure would be nice.

Anyway , tomorrow I finish the torque strut.


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yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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fierodeletre
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Report this Post09-23-2007 03:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I just had a crazy idea...what if you put a turbo on your LSJ? No, no. "Keep" the blower on it. It would be the GM version of a P-47's turbo-supercharged Pratt &Whitney 18 cylinder radial... you'd probably have to beef up the crank and rods, and the head.. the boost would be CRAZY.

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pHoOl
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Report this Post09-23-2007 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageClick Here to Email pHoOlSend a Private Message to pHoOlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

There have been some people that have twin-charged the LSJ. I think http://www.redlineforums.com has a few that have done it.

I'm very interested in this swap as well, though I have to tell you that none of your pictures are showing up for me, as they say I don't have permission on the server.

At any rate, this will make a great kit for someone to make after the kinks have been worked out. I"ll be curious to know what the weight is when you're done, as well as the F/R weight ratio.

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-23-2007 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I think the PIP image host is having problems. They were there yesterday and they posted okay.

I agree the LSJ makes a great package, I wish I had a set of scales too. Once I get it all together I'll see if I can find a shop and get it corner wieghted.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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wftb
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Report this Post09-23-2007 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i got rid of the bottom of my trunk .much easier to run exhaust . i tried and i couldnt get two sets of golf clubs in there anyway so it isnt much of a loss .when i made my motor mounts i just used the cavalier stock mounts and welded on some brackets on the cradle .the high motor mount is an 'A' type frame that comes up from the cradle .i then put the dogbone on the bottom like the cavvy has .but i see that the cobalt lsj has a different mount system and a different oil pan .i dont know if my mounts would work with that engine or not .
nice work on the swap ,looking great so far .

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-23-2007 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I think if I had the left & right side mounts of the ecotec I may have made use of them. The front and rear that I did have did not complament the frame geometry that I had to work with. That belt side mount might have worked for the torque strut. I not get one so I made my own.



The oem engine mount bracket was in a good place to make a torque strut. The rack channel get's another bite out of it as it's the right size and guage.



The only part that get's welded to the car frame are these two ears from 11 guage sheet. I'll have to spot them on with the engine in place, then drop the engine and weld them in fully. The shock tower is re-enforced. It's actully 3 pieces thick at the top. The ears are wide enough to spread out the load and the inside one is tangent to the tower wall.



The engine mount bushings are the same as the front and back. So I'm expecting the same amount of compliance out of all of them. With the internal counter balancers in the ecotec I'm not expecting undue vibration.



The last of the engine mount bits.


Next, shift linkages.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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Flyguyeddy
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Report this Post09-28-2007 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyguyeddyClick Here to Email FlyguyeddySend a Private Message to FlyguyeddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

mighty fine buildup!

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Wht&BluGT
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Report this Post09-30-2007 12:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Wht&BluGTSend a Private Message to Wht&BluGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

any updates?

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-30-2007 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I got the shift arms re-positioned on the transmission and the select cable mounted. I should finish it today and post some images tonight.

Thanks for the nice words.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-30-2007 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The MU3 transmission has simple levers coming out of the case. I thought it would be a simple matter of rotating the levers to point to where the cables come from. Nope.



My basic test rig. I clamped the stock shifter to the frame and used a set of Rodney's getrag cables to mock it up. I used the oem linkage alignment holes so I new were at least 1 gear was.



The old ecotec cable shown in the oem location. My plan was to rotate the levers about 110 degrees as shown and make new mounts using the available bolt holes.



The holes have to be filled in before you drill new ones as they coinside on the ID. After you weld and drill they need to be reamed back to 14mm as the welding distorts the hole and it's a precision fit on the selector shafts. It's also a good idea to drill through just one wall first, then finish drill the other on the selector shaft using it as a guide. It's real easy to screw the hole ailment and you won't get your roll pin all the way through.



The selector cable mount was cut off a old shifter and welded to 3/16 plate. It clears the reverse switch just barely. It has to be plugged in before you bolt it on. This is shown in the nuetral position and the cable is perpandicular the the lever arm and is on the same rotational plane.



After this I mocked up some bar stock to see if I got the other geometry right. Nope. The shift pattern is a mirror image top to bottom. I forgot the ecotec shifter lickage picks up one of the cables from the other side of the shifter axis then the fiero. The select cable works, puts the reverse detent way rightside so I'll need to rotate the shift lever 180 to put 1st gear back up top. Bad part is that the counter weight crashes into the select lever. I started on fabbing a new shift lever to avoid the crashes.

I also need to get another Ultimate Getrag Shift Kit from Rodney to put back on the GT. The one I had is a little shorter now.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-07-2007 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I finished out the shift linkage mounts.



The select cable bracket got put together and cut apart twice, so it's a little frankenstienish.



I used Rodney's shift cable clamp to hold the cable on the new bracket.



The select bracket mounts to two horizontal bolts with deep bosses.



The bracket does clear the reverse switch, but you have to have it plugged in before you mount the bracket.



The shift bracket uses a horizonontal bolt on the side and two vertical bolts on the top from the oem transmission mount.



I made a new shift lever using the ball stud and counter wieght from the original.



The ball is much lower then it was. Given the angle the shift cable has to be pretty high up to keep everything aligned right.



My design intent was to make the brackets stiff as they can be to minimise the lash in the shifter. The shifter feels real good on the bench. Next time the motor is back in the car I'll find out if I need longer cables.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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Flyguyeddy
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Report this Post10-07-2007 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyguyeddyClick Here to Email FlyguyeddySend a Private Message to FlyguyeddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

god i love this build. its basically my dream engine. i sure hope you made drawings of those mounts!

i want to replicate it all.

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-09-2007 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I started gathering bits and pieces to fab the exhuast. First I needed to put the new adjustable rear bar from HHP. Looks great Paul.



I was thinking of dropping the exhuast in front of the bars but there is not room for the pipe radius.



I found a nice machined flange on line for 3" tube, a little over kill but I had a bunch of 3" tube from the V8 exhaust.



I need to get a cat before I start cutting & tacking.



I still like the Tsudo, but I would have to section the trunk wall and still cut up the lower part of it. It's actually sitting on the frame.



I found this wheezer from a solstice GXP. It's all backwards for the fiero setup but it almost bolts right up.



If anybody is thinking about doing this you will need to get the solstice GXP water transfer pipe. The cast turbo exhuast header interferes with the LSJ version. The GXP must dogleg futher away. Other wise It's a perfect fit.

I need to get something for a muffler too.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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fierodeletre
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Report this Post10-09-2007 02:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

This is a great build, man. that is some great welding you're doing on the shift brackets. I concur with the gentleman who hopes you documented your work, you could make some dough selling this as a kit I'm sure.

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If you can't be good, be good at it.

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post10-09-2007 02:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Damn, didn't think that the shift brackets would be that much of a headache. Glad you've worked it out. Hopefully there will be a shift kit by the time I get around to doing a swap like yours. (Probably by that time Turbocharged Ecotecs from the Chevy HHR-ss will be available for less than an arm and a leg.)
Please keep documenting well. We all love pictures. Tons of them.

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Report this Post10-09-2007 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Eau_RougeSend a Private Message to Eau_RougeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I agree, this is definitely my favorite thread. Can't wait to see it completed.

As was said above, if you're into making kits for this setup, I'll definitely be a buyer in the future.

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-09-2007 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The shifter brackets were a little tricky, lot's of geometry and trying to make it work with existing 20 year old parts. I'll find out if it all works well when the motor runs again.

Thanks for all the good words.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-11-2007 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The HPP adjustable rear sway bar interfered with the rear trans mission bracket that I made to clear the OEM bars. The HPP bars sit on blocks that move them forward a bit. In a stock V6 or I4, this would not be an issue but the F35 transmission is bigger then the 282 and nothing is remotely simular in my particular setup, so I wipped up a new one to clear everybodies bar.



The bar is sitting on the old bracket in the mid-position of the slotted holes on the poly mounts.



The basic new bracket in check fit before I cut the hole for the bushing tube.



Shown all welded up with lighting holes. I may grind a tad more clearance on the vertical surface as I expect about a 1/4" of movement at full load. This one fits better then the first one so I'm happy.

I'm waiting on the new cat and some tube donuts before I start on the exhaust.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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toadson
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Report this Post10-13-2007 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toadsonClick Here to Email toadsonSend a Private Message to toadsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I wanted to do this swap, but opted for the L67 swap since its been done many times before. It's awesome to see you doing this build thread though, keep up the good work!

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-13-2007 10:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Put the engine back in to start on the exhuast while I am still waiting on the cat and donut tube.



I intalled the shifter cables and everything fit pretty good. I swapped cable holes in the firewall and ran the shifter through the select hole (smaller & nearer to the transmission side) to get as much length as I can. If I were to order custom cables I would make the select about 3" shorter and the shift about 5" longer to be perfect.



But it's usable like they are with no tight bends.

There must be a reverse lockout on the cobolt ss as 5th will not be selected if the shifter is pushed all the way over to the reverse gate. There is no detent in the transmision when the select is position for 5th or further over for reverse. So I may have to make one later if it's an issue when it runs for the first time.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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Wht&BluGT
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Report this Post10-23-2007 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wht&BluGTSend a Private Message to Wht&BluGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

looks good!

any plans to put any of the gm performance parts upgrade kits on it?
http://www.crateenginedepot...Stage-Kits-C196.aspx

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-23-2007 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

As you read this various stage 3 go fast goodies are hurling themselves at the speed of ground shipping to my door step.

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Wht&BluGT
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Report this Post10-24-2007 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wht&BluGTSend a Private Message to Wht&BluGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sweet

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fierodeletre
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Report this Post10-24-2007 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreClick Here to Email fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ccfiero350- man I can't wait to see this thing hit the road, 1/4 mile times, 0-60, mpg, etc.

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1984 Fiero SE, White, first love, sold...
1986 Fiero SE 2M6, gold
1988 Fiero 2M4, the Fox
1987 Fiero GT, Blue, 3.4/4T40
Still looking for that perfect CJB 88 GT...

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Report this Post10-24-2007 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I think you may have just wasted your money, the stage 3 pcm is untunable... The "intercooler mod" is mostly junk also. My LSJ crew stays away from stage 3 stuff like its the plauge

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-25-2007 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It won't be running on the oem box. I have a delphi mefi4 controller thats fully programable.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post10-25-2007 12:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierodeletre:

ccfiero350- man I can't wait to see this thing hit the road, 1/4 mile times, 0-60, mpg, etc.



Yea, I'm totally waiting for that too..

It's my dream swap. Well right next to the Turbocharged Ecotec out of the Solstice/Sky/HHR-ss (latter is a fwd setup, few years, and one should be able to find it at boneyards, or insurance auctions.) Hopefully by then people will offer kits.

I kind of wish, I could run the stock computer though. I'm in Cali, and it's for emissions. ccfiero350, thanks again for posting lotsa pictures.


-M

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-25-2007 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I can't wait to get it on the road either. I just came back from a HPDE with the Porsche Club from Austin driving my VW diesel and have maxxed the experance of being passed by everybody in my class at least once in a session.

I have been working on the exhuast and waiting on a pair of hangers from Jegs to show up. Will post the images after everything is welded up.

I'll probably remove the duke this weekend and prep the engine bay for it's new tenent.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post10-26-2007 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Cool... I think this is one of the most anticipated installs on Pff. Don't forget to get picture happy...

-M

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CTFieroGT87
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Report this Post10-26-2007 12:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CTFieroGT87Click Here to Email CTFieroGT87Send a Private Message to CTFieroGT87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Keep it up man, this swap looks great!

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