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LSJ Supercharged Ecotec Swap by ccfiero350
Started on: 05-18-2007 10:00 PM
Replies: 443 (66206 views)
Last post by: Will on 03-22-2019 08:52 AM
Austrian Import
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Report this Post12-13-2011 07:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

bump for news.

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j bf1
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Report this Post12-28-2011 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for j bf1Click Here to Email j bf1Send a Private Message to j bf1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Any progress??

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post01-09-2012 10:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It's been a long time and I've been busy with my daily gig, but I got to spend some time with my favorite personal project this weekend. It was shorts and t-shirt weather and I needed to install the big lugs and nuts.



The lugs that come with the Vue hubs are the standard 12mm that come on most GM cars, but they are a little short and a little smaller then the Ford 1/2" lugs that are on the mustang.



As you can see there is a big difference.


The old lugs were pressed out and the holes enlarged for the bigger pressed in ARP lugs. So the finished hub looks like this. I'll do the fronts the same way.


When I last worked on the car I installed the new custom knuckles but I did not get to install the trailing links. So before I re-assembled the rear suspension I set it up at ride height and pulled it into a known alignment and tacked on the new pick up point for the trailing link.



The end links are pretty cool, die cast stainless and they give me just the right kind of flexibility I want. I will have to undo the front of the link when I want to drop the sub-frame.


The new position does increase anti-squat from stock, I'm going to put another pick-up point on the bottom side of the sub-frame to take out most of the anti-squat if I want.




It did go all back together really well.


At ride height the trailing links clear the 315x17 flat tire with room to spare.




------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post03-07-2012 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Did the motor fire up yet?

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Dough19
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Report this Post05-08-2012 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dough19Send a Private Message to Dough19Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

bump. Interested in the progress and also wondering which type and class of racing you are planning on running this in??

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post05-09-2012 07:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Not much progress to post other then I fixed the flat so I can roll it around.

The next thing on my list is upgrade the wheel studs on the front and install 475# springs.

With all the suspension mods and engine swap, I'm no longer certain were the car would be classed in SCCA. I like doing the DE with the local BMW and PCA clubs at Texas World Speedway, loads of fun.

Once I get to the point of installing a roll cage, I serious need to determine what class it would belong to and make a legal cage.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
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BMTFIERO
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Report this Post06-12-2012 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BMTFIEROClick Here to Email BMTFIEROSend a Private Message to BMTFIEROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

bump

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post08-24-2012 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

updates?

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-01-2012 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Not much has happened since the last post. I've been hobbled by an old spine injury and has kept me in a chair longer then I've wanted. Looking forward to some surgery this month and get back my mobility.

I've been really wanting to do some foam and fibor glassing sculpting on the front fenders to finish out the full IMSA look.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
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Report this Post09-01-2012 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looking good there ccfiero350! It's been a while since I've checked out your thread so I hope you don't take my post as a "hit and run".

I found the forward mount of the trailing link interesting, though I'm not sure I understand why you've chosen that particular configuration. I'm sure you've taken in to consideration that all of the (massive) tractive forces are going to be transferred to the chassis through the trailing links, so do you mind expanding a bit on why you chose the double jointed clevis over a simpler hemispherical rod end? To me, it appears as though the system places the small looking vertical clevis pin in double shear (unless the pin is torqued to pinch the end of the trailing link tighly). If it's allowed to pivot though, then I'd be concerned that the repetitive application of power and braking forces will quickly increase the amount of play in the joint and eventually shear the pin. I'd be worried that if that happens you'd lose directional stability in a heartbeat.

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-02-2012 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I wanted to be able to try different amounts of anti squat down to zero anti-squat for the track. I have not put in the other mount and finish gusseting the tie in points. Next time I drop the sub frame I will finish up the fab work on that.

The joints are chosen because a 5/8 regular rod end would be closer to max misalignment on a straight link and open to contamination more, these look real promising for wet driving and I can adjust the compliance of the joint by swapping the bushing to a harder material like nylon or acetyl.

I did look into high misalignment joints but they are just as hard to seal.

Plan B would be 3/4" rod ends but I would have to drill out the factory pickup point and put in bigger 1-1/8" crush tube. A little over kill but it will hold anything the LSJ ever hope to put out.

I can promise you one thing there will be a lot of attention applied to the new rear suspension once it gets rolling under its own power. Lots of new stuff to proof out.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post09-02-2012 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

And yes, the clevis does pinch! pretty slick piece.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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Report this Post09-02-2012 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just another thought: if your current trailing link design doesn't work, you don't have to resort to metal bushings/bearings. You could always return to the stock type links with polyurethane or delrin bushings. In fact you might find the solid links quite harsh once you hit the road, but time will tell. Good luck and keep the pictures coming.

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coppertop_01
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Report this Post09-04-2012 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ccfiero350:

Not much has happened since the last post. I've been hobbled by an old spine injury and has kept me in a chair longer then I've wanted. Looking forward to some surgery this month and get back my mobility.

I've been really wanting to do some foam and fibor glassing sculpting on the front fenders to finish out the full IMSA look.



I hear ya on injuries, I've been sidelined for almost 6 weeks now with a broken tibia bone in my right leg, requiring a big old titanium nail be driven in and screwed into the bone, can't drive, can't walk, can't really do anything till at least the end of sept......totally have a new appreciation for people who live with handicaps for life. Good luck with your recovery.

Jer

------------------
2000 Saturn wagon, the tool box, cargo hauler and beater.....mods coming.
86 GT ex-daily driver w/3800SC, sold to a friend who is going to be racing it.
85 GT project car "Fierion"

Follow the buildup blog at http://coppertopautosports.blogspot.com

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post10-26-2012 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

My big fix is coming up this Monday. I'm getting a double handful of screws and rods to fuse 3 lumbar together in my lower back. I've been looking forward to this procedure a long time and can't wait to get back on my feet again in about 2-3 weeks.

I've been researching my list of engine mods and fab items to make the next time I have the sub-frame out and it's got me all excited about lugging out the hoist again. :D


When the engine is out:
1. Stage II injectors
2. Dual pass intercooler
3. Stage II pulley
4. Phenolic intake gaskets
5. Aluminum flywheel
6. Spec IIII clutch
7. New harness

When Subframe is out:
1. Finish trailing link mods
2. Finish exhaust mounts
3. Removable trailer hitch
4. Oil filter mount
5. Powder coat.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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coppertop_01
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Report this Post10-26-2012 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Good luck on you're surgery, I hope it all goes well and you're back in action soon.

Jer

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j bf1
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Report this Post08-10-2013 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for j bf1Click Here to Email j bf1Send a Private Message to j bf1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hope your back is feeling better now. LMK if you make any progress? I'm considering ant Ecotec 2.0 turbo.

------------------
~John

'88 GT 5spd White/Beechwood
'00 Corvette vert. 6spd Yellow/Black
'05 Colorado Xtreme Black/Graphite

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Report this Post09-17-2013 07:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for InfernoClick Here to Email InfernoSend a Private Message to InfernoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I can't believe how much I just read...... This is the most interesting and informative builds I have ever seen in all of the car sites I have ever been on. FANTASTIC!

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zkhennings
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Report this Post11-12-2013 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Re-read this thread for around the 20th time, I hope there will be updates in the future!

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maccos
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Report this Post12-03-2013 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maccosClick Here to visit maccos's HomePageSend a Private Message to maccosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey Guys, New to the forum here.
I have been watching this build for tips on my LNF ectotec build (although it is installed in a replica Ariel Atom I am building). I thought I would give back by passing on the information for my build for those that are interested in the LNF motor.
http://www.locostusa.com/fo...=36&t=14932&start=60
Also here is a website I started with the build blog and it also has a CAD model I created of the LNF engine for those who have CAD software, you can download it for free: www.modernkitcar.com
Thanks,
Scott

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zkhennings
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Report this Post12-06-2013 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by maccos:

Hey Guys, New to the forum here.
I have been watching this build for tips on my LNF ectotec build (although it is installed in a replica Ariel Atom I am building). I thought I would give back by passing on the information for my build for those that are interested in the LNF motor.
http://www.locostusa.com/fo...=36&t=14932&start=60
Also here is a website I started with the build blog and it also has a CAD model I created of the LNF engine for those who have CAD software, you can download it for free: www.modernkitcar.com
Thanks,
Scott


Sweet Build!

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akademikjeanius
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Report this Post12-28-2013 12:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for akademikjeaniusSend a Private Message to akademikjeaniusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by maccos:

Hey Guys, New to the forum here.
I have been watching this build for tips on my LNF ectotec build (although it is installed in a replica Ariel Atom I am building). I thought I would give back by passing on the information for my build for those that are interested in the LNF motor.
http://www.locostusa.com/fo...=36&t=14932&start=60
Also here is a website I started with the build blog and it also has a CAD model I created of the LNF engine for those who have CAD software, you can download it for free: www.modernkitcar.com
Thanks,
Scott


Firstly, welcome to the forum. Secondly, like previous poster said "sweet build!". Thirdly, thanks for resources shared for us Fiero enthusiasts to jumpstart our venture into the forced-induction Ecotecs.

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maccos
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Report this Post01-07-2014 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maccosClick Here to visit maccos's HomePageSend a Private Message to maccosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the comments. I am working on getting an engine wiring harness diagram on the website so anyone who wants to put an LNF motor into any vehicle can do just that.

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post01-08-2014 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I really like the LNF motor, wish they were more plentiful back in '07 when I started this thing. Now I can get one with a factory warranty for just a little more then what I paid for the LSJ drop out.

I do have a turbo setup for the LSJ, for later.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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akademikjeanius
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Report this Post01-15-2014 02:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for akademikjeaniusSend a Private Message to akademikjeaniusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by maccos:

Thanks for the comments. I am working on getting an engine wiring harness diagram on the website so anyone who wants to put an LNF motor into any vehicle can do just that.


Awe-some!! Truly looking forward to that.


 
quote
Originally posted by ccfiero350:

I really like the LNF motor, wish they were more plentiful back in '07 when I started this thing. Now I can get one with a factory warranty for just a little more then what I paid for the LSJ drop out.

I do have a turbo setup for the LSJ, for later.


Who would you go through for purchasing them?

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KillerFrogg
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Report this Post01-16-2014 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KillerFroggClick Here to Email KillerFroggSend a Private Message to KillerFroggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by akademikjeanius:

Who would you go through for purchasing them?


You can get an LNF/LDK (same thing, just slight variations in mounts for different applications) from ZZP. Brand new, $3,000, with turbo.

So no risk of damage from the previous owner, but you also need the computer, wiring harness, trans, axles (from my reading on here the cobalt axles work as is with the fiero)

Personally I am just going to find a body-totaled SS'balt when I do my swap so I have everything I need then just part out what is left after I peel the engine and its supporting hardware out to recoup what I can.

You can make ALOT of power out of these little 2.0L beasts, I mean even stock at 260hp/260ft-lb that is a good bit more than enough for a daily driver Fiero. Even with just the GM stage 1 kit or what ever it is, you get a little boost in HP, but it really lets the torque out of the box.

But I know not all of our cars are just daily drivers

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wftb
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Report this Post01-17-2014 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

the cobalt axles from the turbo SS cars will not fit the fiero hubs .the LNF will bolt right up to the cavalier 2.2 eco 5 speed f23 and then you just use fiero axles .GM went heavy duty with all the turbo ss cars , larger wheel stud bolt pattern and different spline count on axles compared to the LSJ cars .so a wrecked cobalt SS will give you almost eveything you need but not quite .

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Report this Post01-17-2014 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The key feature is the f35 tranny, on the lsj versions the outer spline matched the fiero hub. I can not vouch for the lnf versions of the same transmission, but it would seem improbable they would make a change in outer spline unless warranty issues or production consolation forced a change.

Anybody got an lnf axle from a manual to try out on a fiero hub? Also didn't they go to a six speed?

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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wftb
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Report this Post01-17-2014 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

went on one of the cobalt SS forums and found this : both supercharged and turbo cars use the f35 5 speed tranny .the tranny ends of both cars axles are the same .the lnf middle shaft is 34 mm dia. vs lsj 25 mm . the lnf at the hub is 32 mm 30 spline count .the lsj at the hub is 33 spline and 26.5 mm diameter .so no you cannot use lnf axles in a fiero hub .and the f35 is not known to be stronger than the f23 .it uses a jackshaft that helps reduce torque steer in a front drive car but does not affect any improvement in a rear wheel drive car .use an f23 and fiero axles and save yourself some work .anyway this is a great thread that i have been following a long time . hope it continues soon and i hope you are feeling better CC .

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post01-18-2014 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That makes sense to me. I went to a larger bearing hub from the Vue/Equinox theta platform. I would bet they did the same and dipped into the gm parts bin and used the meaty stuff from the heavier car.

There sure were a lot of complaints about axles with modded lsj cars.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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coppertop_01
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Report this Post01-20-2014 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageClick Here to Email coppertop_01Send a Private Message to coppertop_01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ccfiero : there was many problems, but keep in mind the target audience for the cobalt SS....mostly early 20's, not exactly known to baby their cars or know much more than what they've seen in a movie when it came to mod'ding cars. My 04 ION RL had many mods, made in about 275hp all on stock clutch and stock axles, the ability to keep the car from having excessive wheel hop meant if you were going to be needing new axles, clutch or transmission.........drag strips were not a friend of the cobalt SS or ION RL's.

------------------
2000 SW2 5spd, First S-series w/Hein's true A-arm front suspension, First sedan/wagon w/coupe front end conversion, boxed in rear subframe, SPS 3-way rear swaybar, Corado 11" rotor swap w/Wilwood superlight 2 front calipers, rear disk swap, Deeb's built engine w/dual intake cam's, OBX header, High flow cat, Thermal exhaust, MSD wires and coils, AEM CAI, OBX rad hoses, custom short throw shifter, black leather swap, black interior swap and there's a stereo somewhere in there.
86 GT ex-daily driver w/3800SC, sold to a friend who is going to be racing it.
85 GT project car "Fierion"

Follow the buildup blog at http://coppertopautosports.blogspot.com

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kraelo
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Report this Post03-10-2014 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kraeloClick Here to Email kraeloSend a Private Message to kraeloEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Do you have copies of your templates for all your brackets and what parts you used?

I love your front suspension setup and I would like to duplicate it if possible and permissible.

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post03-11-2014 07:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have the templates for most of the parts but a few of them were frankensteins. But as you probably know what fits my setup may not fit yours that well, since its cut to fit, paint to match.

For sure you can duplicate anything you see here, thats why I posted all this for everybody.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

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Report this Post06-11-2014 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jgettiClick Here to Email jgettiSend a Private Message to jgettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ccfiero,

I own a Cobalt SS turbo car. I recently had to replace the front wheel bearing, and they kept giving me one undersize (same as the regular Cobalts). Finally, I requested a wheel bearing for a G6, and that was the correct one.

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post06-11-2014 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Cool! I was thinking the SS versions were just from the bigger platforms

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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maccos
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Report this Post03-13-2015 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maccosClick Here to visit maccos's HomePageSend a Private Message to maccosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I noticed that on your non-driven hubs you are using a CV axle shaft the "preload" the hub bearings, which is typical for older vehicles, but I have determined that it is not necessary for these hubs.

I am using the same hub assemblies as you (from a Cobalt or Pontaic) and I have contacted SKF (bearing assembly manufacture) to double check with them to confirm that you do not need to pre-load them. Their product catalog also specifies that they are designed such that they are already pre-loaded from the factory. Take a look at the front wheel bearings of the pontaic solstice (which should be the same or similar hubs as yours, similar to what I am using) and you see they have no means of pre-loading the bearings.

This will save you some unsprung weight!

Here are some links for reference:
Another builder who came to the same conclusion: http://www.locostusa.com/fo...1270ffccc2&start=285
SKF torque guides ( refer to front hub torque of Pontiac Solstice, no torque required): http://www.skf.com/binary/79-66360/457377.pdf

www.modernkitcar.com

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post03-13-2015 05:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Your Absolutely right, If I used the solstice hubs. But I wanted to to change the bolt pattern to use the mustang wheels and brakes. The chevy Vue hubs are two piece and need the axle bolt the hold them together.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
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dskebo
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Report this Post03-18-2015 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dskeboClick Here to Email dskeboSend a Private Message to dskeboEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The 04 Cadillac CTS has a sealed front bearing with 5x115 bolt circle. I think that bearing would fit your knuckles perfectly.

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ccfiero350
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Report this Post03-19-2015 05:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ccfiero350Click Here to Email ccfiero350Send a Private Message to ccfiero350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Now that one I did not look at. The Vue hubs got the job because the axle fit the transmission too. I bet the caddy axle would not.

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dskebo
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Report this Post03-20-2015 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dskeboClick Here to Email dskeboSend a Private Message to dskeboEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

No the Caddy is rear wheel drive but the front hubs are sealed and have the triangle mount like the front of yours.
They don't need the axle to hold them together which should help with the unsprung weight

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