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The Official VR6 Engine Swap by bmwguru
Started on: 12-16-2007 01:38 PM
Replies: 727 (103402 views)
Last post by: bmwguru on 08-02-2015 04:21 AM
bmwguru
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Report this Post03-17-2008 05:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It seems that everything is easy to get at in the back of the Fiero.
I've made little progress this week, but not enough to warrant a bump. I've been a little busy helping Joey get ready for her trip and playing with my orange Fiero that came back from the body shop recently.
As of next week, I should be making some decent progress as Joey and the kids will be out of state.
The sound of the VR6 I wouldn't compare to the 911. It is really hard to compare it to anything....but I love the sound.
Dave

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bmwguru
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A little brown truck arrived at my shop with a big package. I was all set to install my new custom axles, but unfortunately, the inners are for the wrong VW transmission. Called the driveshaft shaop and I should have the correct inner joints in a day or two. They sent me ones for the 02A transmission. I am using the 02J transmission. No biggie, just a small delay.


For the cooling system I am using a lot of 1.5" J-bends welded and pressure checked. They hold 100psi, so I think they will be good for the cooling system. Here is the return pipe....as best of a shot I can get in the car. The outlet pipe is still in the bench vice for the last week. I think the holiday rush of customers might die down soon, and I'll hopefully get the cooling system completed.

more updates at the end of this week.
Dave

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FieroJimmy
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Report this Post03-18-2008 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJimmySend a Private Message to FieroJimmyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I was all set to install my new custom axles, but unfortunately, the inners are for the wrong VW transmission.


D'oh! At least that's not the only thing keeping you from driving it.

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litespd
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Report this Post03-21-2008 12:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for litespdSend a Private Message to litespdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

And a bump to get this back up to Page 1....

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bmwguru
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We just got up to get Joey and the kids ready for their trip. I unfortunately will not be able to go back to sleep after they leave, or I'll be wiped out for the rest of the day, so I guess I'll have to go down to the shop and start digging in to the swap.
Dave

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bmwguru
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I made some progress today. i had an early start, but then had to tend to customer's vehicles. Tomorrow is 10 hours of pure VR6 work, though.
Anyway, I took a pic of the new inner CV joints. You can see the size difference between the O2A and 02J transmissions. The 02J which I am using is on the left.

Here is a shot of the driver's side axle installed.


Now, I've been reading how a lot of members have difficulty bleeding out the clutch. I've bled the clutch in all my Fieros in under ten minutes with no issues. Here is the trick.....

Here is an action shot...lol.

Tomorrow I start the wiring and computer modifications and hopefully finalize the cooling system. If there is time, I'm going to build a battery box and route the third harness.
Dave

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Report this Post03-21-2008 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looks great!

Good call with the fluid feeder on the front when bleeding the clutch. I guess you had to modify a clutch fill cap for that to work?

Thanks for not including a shot of you relaxing in the buff with the video game and Killians when today's work was done. I haven't eaten yet!

We'll be watching for the results of tomorrows 10-hours-of-VR.

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bmwguru
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The adapter I used on the clutch master is the same as just about all German brake master cylinders, so it screwed right on.
Anyway, I'm getting ready for bed and hoping to get a fresh start in the morning
Dave

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Report this Post03-21-2008 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Cool! How much can I buy one of those for?

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Silentassassin185
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Report this Post03-21-2008 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Silentassassin185Click Here to Email Silentassassin185Send a Private Message to Silentassassin185Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I started looking for one of those today after having issues with my Dad's 88 5spd. They have one here for GM vehicles (Fiero included ) for about 60 bucks

[This message has been edited by Silentassassin185 (edited 03-21-2008).]

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bmwguru
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Report this Post03-22-2008 06:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The one I have is about ten years old. It has a few adapters for different cars, but I seem to only use the round screw on one for the German master cylinders. I do on average about six brake fluid flushes a week. The cool part is it gets its pressure from the vehicle's tire. Just put on the adapter. Plug in the quick connect and then put the hose on the tire's valve stem. There is a built in regulator that is adjustable.
I have no idea of the brand it is. That faded off years ago. It has probably been used a few thousand times and is still working fine.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-22-2008).]

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FieroJimmy
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Report this Post03-22-2008 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroJimmySend a Private Message to FieroJimmyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

The one I have is about ten years old. It has a few adapters for different cars, but I seem to only use the round screw on one for the German master cylinders. I do on average about six brake fluid flushes a week. The cool part is it gets its pressure from the vehicle's tire. Just put on the adapter. Plug in the quick connect and then put the hose on the tire's valve stem. There is a built in regulator that is adjustable.
I have no idea of the brand it is. That faded off years ago. It has probably been used a few thousand times and is still working fine.
Dave



This is exactly why it is important to buy quality tools. You can buy cheap stuff at the auto parts store, but don't expect it to last more than about three uses. And, quality tools pay for themselves just in the aggravation they save.

And, it gets it's air from the tire? That's great, it keeps them from needing to regulate shop air down to something reasonable, and makes sure if the car is stuck out in the lot, you can still use it.

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bmwguru
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I'm taking five from the VR6 for a minute...(that's an ironic joke).
Anyway, I looked and the bleeder case still has the name on it. It is "Speedi Bleed"....made in Canana. i have the master kit.
Dave
back to the swap....I'll post pics tonight

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Report this Post03-22-2008 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for anonymityClick Here to visit anonymity's HomePageSend a Private Message to anonymityEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well?!?!? You got a good night sleep... so where are the latest pics of the progress? Are you gonna have it done when I come home tomorrow? (j/k)

Joey

BTW, your girlfriend says, "Hey, baby!"

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bmwguru
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Report this Post03-22-2008 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Today we have the cooling system 100% completed. Strangely enough, I think I spent about 25 hours total fabricating the cooling system. When I did my V8, I think it took me three hours (my V8 has solid pipes at the engine...very little rubber hose).
Anyway, the cooling system on the VR6 is a little more involved than the SBC.
I finished making the feed line to the radiator. I mounted it to the forward transmission mount (which has a nice plate on the front for the pipe bracket.)


I think the Fiero is going to be a little spoiled....


I welded a bracket where the FP and A/C relays used to go. Painted it and then mounted the expansion tank to the bracket. This has to be the highest point in the cooling system and can't hit the vent above it. Kind of tricky, but I got it just right on the first try.


There are tight clearances on the hoses, so I used the factory hose "rubber thingies"...they keep the hose from rubbing against the engine.


Mixed up the genuine VW/Audi coolant...a 50-50 mix.


Here is the trick to bleeding out your Fieros cooling system.


Here is a pic showing the clearance as well at the cooling system filled. Notice I added a cooling system filter to the system to catch any debris that may be in the engine or anywhere in the cooling system.

Here is a better shot of the clearance....just right.



Tomorrow, I plan on spending a few hours at the shop in the afternoon. Hopefully, I'll have some more decent progress.
Dave

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Report this Post03-22-2008 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kemp3Click Here to Email Kemp3Send a Private Message to Kemp3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Amazing work you have done , I hope to hear it running soon cant wait to see some videos .

Thank you for your new approach to engine swaps in Fieros !

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quote
Originally posted by Kemp3:

Amazing work you have done , I hope to hear it running soon cant wait to see some videos .

Thank you for your new approach to engine swaps in Fieros !


Carmel Valley? Wow!! Cool. We're practically neighbors. I'm in Monterey, CA. You have a PM.

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Report this Post03-23-2008 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for anonymityClick Here to visit anonymity's HomePageSend a Private Message to anonymityEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looking good, honey. Keep up the good work!

I can't wait to be able to drive my fiero again.

Joey

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Report this Post03-23-2008 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for spud07Click Here to Email spud07Send a Private Message to spud07Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i have an 88 fiero .2.5L would it be possible for me to do something like that with mine live vr6 swap.but automatic.is there like a kit or something.or does it bolt right up besides the drive axles.

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bmwguru
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quote
Originally posted by spud07:

i have an 88 fiero .2.5L would it be possible for me to do something like that with mine live vr6 swap.but automatic.is there like a kit or something.or does it bolt right up besides the drive axles.


I've made everything from scratch. The automatic would be possible using the VW transmission. I could have done this swap easier using a stand alone ECM, but I wanted to see how practical it would be to make it using the VW ECM. In my opinion, this swap is more complicated than any swap I have done so far, but it probably won't be the hardest swap I'll be doing...I already have the next swap for my third Fiero planned.
Dave

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Report this Post03-23-2008 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I hope it turns out well. You have done some very nice work.

How hard is it to tune the VW ECM?

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bmwguru
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I just got everything set up to do the wiring and ECM work today. I just had a bottle of the "Nectar of the Gods" to get me going....aka Mountain Dew for you non believers. I have 39 pages of wiring diagrams to go through and shorten/remove/reroute the wiring.
I don't think it is too hard to modify the VW programming, but then again I do this everyday for a living. Some people think carpentry is easy....If I build a box out of wood, it will not be square and fall apart as soon as it is moved.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-23-2008).]

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Report this Post03-23-2008 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looking great! You're really making me think about a BMW V8 in my 84 Fiero.

------------------
88 Coupe: Modded 4.9L V8 5 speed
84 Coupe: 4 Cyl 5 speed
www.geocities.com/fast88fiero

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Report this Post03-23-2008 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for spud07Click Here to Email spud07Send a Private Message to spud07Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i have an lt1 i was plan on installing in the fiero..um as far as transmission shld i upgrade .to like a gt model tranni.if so would i have to modify brackets for that gt tranny?

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bmwguru
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quote
Originally posted by spud07:

i have an lt1 i was plan on installing in the fiero..um as far as transmission shld i upgrade .to like a gt model tranni.if so would i have to modify brackets for that gt tranny?


V8 Archie is the man to talk to about your V8 swap questions.
www.V8archie.com

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bmwguru
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Report this Post03-23-2008 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I spent the last five hours making one of the engine harnesses. I took the connector apart at the computer and removed the wiring by the pins for a cleaner look. Right now, it is not in a loom, but I want to lay it on the engine and see where it needs to be extended and shortened. Incorporating it to work with the GM electronics shouldn't be too difficult. The hardest part was going through the 39 pages of diagrams and figuring out where each wire goes into another module. Then removing the body module from the circuit and completing the wiring back to the ECM. This is a CAN car, so the modules all talk to each other.
So, in a few hours I should be able to have the wiring loomed and installed. Tomorrow or Tuesday the battery will be installed and the last harness for the starting and charging system will be added. I am keeping the wiring as close to VW stock as possible to make it easier to diagnose when something goes wrong.
We just may have it ready for Joey when she gets back.
Dave

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quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

We just may have it ready for Joey when she gets back.
Dave


Who is "WE"?!?!?

It's great that you're hoping to have it done for when I get back, do you really think it will be? Thats an awful lot of wiring to go through. I would have liked to have been there to help you with that.... but I probably would've been in your way... or messing sh*t up.

Joey

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quote
Originally posted by anonymity:
Who is "WE"?!?!?


Dave and his Mt. Dew of course.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy

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quote
Originally posted by whadeduck:

Dave and his Mt. Dew of course.



Or his Killians...

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Report this Post03-24-2008 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HCClick Here to visit HC's HomePageSend a Private Message to HCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Really impressive work man, you make me very jealous!

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bmwguru
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Thanks for the compliments.
I'm too pooped to even look at the VR6 swap today. The weekend killed me. I think I'm going to try and get a quick workout in and eat more bacon and eggs, drink a Killians and watch reruns tonight.
Tomorrow night I'm planning on logging a few hours, so I should have some updates then.
Dave

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Report this Post03-24-2008 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierohobbySend a Private Message to fierohobbyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
Thanks for the compliments.
I'm too pooped to even look at the VR6 swap today. The weekend killed me. I think I'm going to try and get a quick workout in and eat more bacon and eggs, drink a Killians and watch reruns tonight.
Tomorrow night I'm planning on logging a few hours, so I should have some updates then.
Dave


Dude, you mean you get tired? You've been going at this thing like a machine. You make it look too easy.

BTW, this is one of my favorite threads. Lovin' the way it's coming together, can't wait for the video!

-fh

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bmwguru
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Report this Post03-24-2008 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fierohobby:


Dude, you mean you get tired? You've been going at this thing like a machine. You make it look too easy.

BTW, this is one of my favorite threads. Lovin' the way it's coming together, can't wait for the video!

-fh


I'd have to agree with you on the machine part. I start my day working 10 hours on customer's German cars and then spend another three or four hours working on the VR6. I pulled 30 hours on Saturday and Sunday on the swap. Even tonight while taking the night off, I'm looming the wiring harness at my house and writing down the plan for to make the gauges work properly.
The worst part is I gave up an addiction this weekend and my head is pounding.....energy drinks. But I started feeling like crap when I was drinking them, so I thought it was a good time to quit.
Joey and the kids should be home on Friday....unless they get detained at FieroAngel's place and then Saxman's place, so I'm going to put the pressure on this week to get somewhat close to done.
I am up in the air if I am going to use the interior harness from the Jetta or just make my own. Either way, I'm looking at about the same amount of labor.
Dave

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bmwguru
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Report this Post03-24-2008 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here are some more pics I forgot to post.
Here is the wiring diagram for the powertrain management. Now there is more wiring in the power and grounds and then the body systems. Trying to incorporate this to work in the Fiero is fun. 39 pages in all....and that doesn't include the Fiero wiring I have to go through. The VW uses track style wiring. Meaning that each page is a continuation of the previous page.


My poor interior. Hopefully, I'll have it back together soon, but it will have to come apart much further than this before that happens. Maybe time for some Mr. Mike's seats. mmmm

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-24-2008).]

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Report this Post03-24-2008 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If you need me to delay Joey when (if) she makes it here, let me know. You need another day? If so, I'll get a horse in the back yard or something to make sure she takes her time

I keep thinking about the lesson in wiring I could get if you were closer. I'd be hanging at your shop constantly! Keep up the great work. Good idea to break one small addiction while the fam is away.

Cars are my best therapy - but I don't do them for a living. You must be car-man of the year or something!

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Report this Post03-26-2008 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm taking a few days off the VR6 to clear my head of working on Fieros....well not really. My shop is beyond busy...which is very good for me, and I've needed to clear my head a little on the VR6 swap.
So, to clear my head, I've decided to do the finishing touches on my GOF (orange V8 Fiero). When I got it back from the body shop, the front left marker lights were not working and the cluster was illuminated when using the blinker. I got that mess (corroded ground wire) traced out and repaired. And then my one headlight motor stripped out, so that had to be repaired. I'm driving the car to a local MINI Cooper meet on Friday, so it has to be ready. (maybe they won't notice it is not a MINI).
Anyway, I hope to have a fresh start next week.
Dave

------------------

1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT (wife's toy), 1986 SE soon to be VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post03-26-2008 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If east coast MINI people have a similar sense of humor as west coast MINI people - I bet they do.
Just say it's a "counterfeit MINI" if they ask. http://www.counterfeitmini.org/
____________
(to the uninitiated, the above was a ingenius marketing campaign launched by MINI a few years ago. Very successful too.)

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bmwguru
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Report this Post03-26-2008 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

If east coast MINI people have a similar sense of humor as west coast MINI people - I bet they do.
Just say it's a "counterfeit MINI" if they ask. http://www.counterfeitmini.org/
____________
(to the uninitiated, the above was a ingenius marketing campaign launched by MINI a few years ago. Very successful too.)


LMAO.
I will definitely use that!

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bmwguru
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Report this Post04-01-2008 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Allrighty,
I took a few days to clear my head and I had some progress on the Fiero swap today. I decided to mount the battery in the stock location, but I wasn't happy with the way GM had set it up...plus I am not a fan of side mount batteries. I went with the Optima battery, which had a greater CCA than the factory Jetta battery at a smaller size.



Added 5w40 Mobil 1 and Redline M/T fluid.


I spent hours getting the wiring harness pinned out. VW does not have a pin out chart for the VR6. So, I had to make one and figure out how to incorporate it to work with the GM fusebox and relays. I have about 90 pages of wiring diagrams from both cars and eight hand written pages on how to make the stuff work. I kept the CAN lines in the car and I may be using the VW cluster (not sure yet, but I left the wiring there in case if I do.)
Added the engine covers again and installed the spark plug wires....how's that for an easy tune up???



Tomorrow the little brown truck should be dropping off my battery cables, so I may hear it run by the end of the week.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 04-01-2008).]

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FXRseen
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Report this Post04-01-2008 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FXRseenClick Here to Email FXRseenSend a Private Message to FXRseenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm curious, with all your electrical know how are you going to be doing a custom interior or dash swap along with the engine? These things interest me.

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