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The Official VR6 Engine Swap by bmwguru
Started on: 12-16-2007 01:38 PM
Replies: 727 (103589 views)
Last post by: bmwguru on 08-02-2015 04:21 AM
exoticse
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Report this Post07-17-2009 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


No offense taken. I believe Joey had added the Pegasus's to the hood to ensure that it would forever be a "chick's car" and then she would be the only one to drive it.
On Sunday, I replaced the entire exhaust to a quieter, smoother, more exotic sounding exhaust. The VR6 has one sexy exhaust note if the exhaust is tuned for the car.
Dave


As chick cars go,...that is pretty bad a** !

Again i am not a mural type person, but i have to admit that is pretty darn cool. If you are going to do one,...that is the way to go !

Congrats on the swap too, that looks awesome !

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ALLTRBO
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Report this Post07-18-2009 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALLTRBOSend a Private Message to ALLTRBOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
...IMO its not a practical swap but a custom one off creation that's a labor of love for someone who wanted something very different. Dave and Joeys VR6 Fiero is certainly a technological achievement and I doubt that we will ever see another one built like it...

Dave will happily do another VR6 swap for someone at Haus of Guru if someone wants one. It wouldn't take him nearly as long to do again because he has it figured out now. That makes it a very viable option for many.

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bmwguru
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Report this Post07-18-2009 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

you really have to drive a tuned VR6...even if it is in a GTI or Jetta. In the Fiero with the VW 02J manual five speed, I shifted from second into third gear at 78MPH. It really pulls at 2500 rpms and then pulls harder at 5,000rpms, and even harder at 7,000 rpms. Finally, I shift around 7,300-7,500rpms. It kinda reminds me of Joey's horse. Just when you think she can't get any faster, she'll go.
Dave

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post07-19-2009 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Wish you could have made it to WestFest this year. Your car would have been a great addition to the show.
Maybe next year though..

(until then, we'll need many more pictures and videos please. )

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IVANNATINKLE
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Report this Post07-19-2009 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IVANNATINKLEClick Here to Email IVANNATINKLESend a Private Message to IVANNATINKLEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

this is very true my brother has a t64 turbo in an 02 vr6 gti VERY VERY fast lol runs around 11's on mid boost.

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IVANNATINKLE
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Report this Post07-19-2009 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IVANNATINKLEClick Here to Email IVANNATINKLESend a Private Message to IVANNATINKLEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

anyway how much would he charge for the basic swap if someone had the vr6 motor/trans with the wiring harness, and the fiero?

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bmwguru
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Report this Post07-19-2009 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:

anyway how much would he charge for the basic swap if someone had the vr6 motor/trans with the wiring harness, and the fiero?


The wiring harness is the tough part. The VW uses a lot of seperate modules to control various functions. The ecu needs to see those modules to properly function....ie fan control module, fuel pump etc. I had to bypass them and still let the ecu think they were there and functioning normally while having another source from the Fiero control the fan and fuel pump etc.
For the 3800s/c swaps I do, I charge a base $3,500 in labor...estimated on what else we are doing to the swap, it will go up (ie camshaft, custom exhaust, show quality engine,etc)
For the VR6, I would probably charge around $10,000 for someone who has the two donor cars needed to do the swap (Fiero and MK4 Volkswagen). The parts needed from the VW are: engine, transmission, shifter, gas pedal, coolant expansion tank, clutch switch, three harnesses including battery fusebox and harness, all the hoses and engine accessories, custom axles will need to be made at approx $850-900, upgraded fuel pump....basically everything you see in the engine bay and then some. I would also prefer to build a custom intake manifold for added clearance and fabricate poly mounts. The shifter will need to be completely reworked to function out the rear, instead of the front. The shifter would also need to be shortened. Custom length shifter cables will need to be made, as well. Custom gauges will need to be installed, but I could probably pull it off with the stock gauges, but the tach on the Fiero doesn't go high enough for the VR6. When the engine is out, I would recommed replacement of the timing chains, upgrading the flywheel, and porting the exhaust manifolds to 200mm.
Dave

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post07-21-2009 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

How about using the Vr6 dash gauges? I think it would be a headache to marry ze German technology with '80's GM dashboard technology.


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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post07-24-2009 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

.

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 07-24-2009).]

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post08-02-2009 04:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

.

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 08-02-2009).]

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post08-02-2009 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It would be great to swap in a 5 cyl engine into a fiero. :dreaming:.

http://www.topgear.com/us/f...en-fruit-audi-tt-rs/

Do they all sound like this, or is it the TT-RS treatment?





So now my question to you Dave, do all 5 cyl's sound like that?

Have you gotten the Vr6 Fiero to stand still long enough to make a new video and pictures of the new exhaust sound?
More pictures? (Interior, engine under cover, driving footage, exhaust system, nice pictures for desktop backgrounds?)

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Report this Post08-02-2009 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
The cars both have race exhaust and are very loud. My V8 has Dynomax race bullets with no cats and the VR6 has about three feet of pipe with Magnaflow mufflers. I tried to convince Joey that the VR6 needs more backpressure, but she really loves the rumble-pop on deacceleration. The VR6 sounds similar to a Harley with race pipes.
For an experiment, I'll take a video in my gold GT with stock engine to see if it still pops.


Have you got a chance to figure out if it was the camera of the exhaust?

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anonymity
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.

[This message has been edited by anonymity (edited 08-05-2009).]

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bmwguru
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Report this Post08-05-2009 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Max,
The five cylinders do sound good with an aftermarket exhaust. Joey's VR6 has a much sweeter sound with the new exhaust that I installed. It is less obnoxious and deeper. I have the car all apart right now, so I should be able to get some pics that you want. The camera I have isn't very good for videos, but if I get a few minutes of "me time", I'll go down to Best Buy and pic up a new video camera.
We will be taking the VR6 to the Bluegrass Fiero meet in Kentucky next weekend. I'm certain it will be ready for the trip.
Dave

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Report this Post08-08-2009 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Max,
The five cylinders do sound good with an aftermarket exhaust. Joey's VR6 has a much sweeter sound with the new exhaust that I installed. It is less obnoxious and deeper. I have the car all apart right now, so I should be able to get some pics that you want. The camera I have isn't very good for videos, but if I get a few minutes of "me time", I'll go down to Best Buy and pic up a new video camera.
We will be taking the VR6 to the Bluegrass Fiero meet in Kentucky next weekend. I'm certain it will be ready for the trip.
Dave


Buy it online. Much cheaper, and better selection. If you want to save money: www.overstock.com Some modern picture cameras take pretty nice video, in case you need both.
Is the new exhaust still Magnaflow, or did you use Borla?

Can't wait to see more pictures.

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bmwguru
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Report this Post08-09-2009 08:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The exhaust is still Magnaflow. I used this muffler and turned the Porsche tips upside down...I think they look better that way. I had C2 do some fine tuning on the ecu and I should have it back tomorrow (hopefully).
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-14277/

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Dash
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Report this Post08-22-2009 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DashClick Here to Email DashSend a Private Message to DashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

guru
im in moonachie nj
where and how far is your shop?

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bmwguru
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Report this Post08-22-2009 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

We are located minutes off of GSP exit 88 in Lakewood. If you want to come by and see the projects, let me know and I'll make sure the VR6 is there.
The shop info is:
Autobahn Automotive
40 Chestnut St.
Lakewood, NJ 08701
732-363-5552

The Haus of Guru is my side business located in my main shop. I am currently looking to relocate my shop to a larger location. Right now I have 3000 sq ft and I need more than that. I'm hoping to relocate to Jackson or Toms River which is less than 5 miles from my current location.

Dave

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bmwguru
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Report this Post08-22-2009 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just a quick vid taken in KY. I'll post up some cool stuff in the near future. I finally learned how to edit videos....lol



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Erik
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Report this Post08-22-2009 02:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sweet sounding car

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post08-28-2009 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Dave, I was wondering if this would apply to the rear mounted Torsen type LSD you now have on the Vr6
http://www.motorchili.com/v...55/Left-foot-braking

Could you, or Joey try it out on an open road and tell me what you think?

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Report this Post08-28-2009 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Somewhat unrelated to my above post, as this time it's used to stabilize the car rather than engage the LSD, but I figured I'll post it for completeness sake
*hint, post videos of Joey doing cool stuff with the Vr6 (on empty parking lots)*

http://www.motorchili.com/v...7--Left-Foot-Braking

http://www.motorchili.com/v...aking-heel-toe-combo


btw.: if anybody knows the name of that DVD, please PM me. I would love to add it to my collection. Skip Barber - Going faster is a great video, although a bit dated.

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Eau_Rouge
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Report this Post10-07-2009 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Eau_RougeSend a Private Message to Eau_RougeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Dave, just wanted to get your thoughts on the possibility of swapping in a BMW M42 into a Fiero. I assume the wiring wouldn't be too difficult as they've been successfully swapped into older BMW's like the E21's and even the 2002's but I don't know about how difficult it would be to mount the engine in a fiero and adapt it to lets say the stock 5 speed Getrag (starter placement issue, adapter plate)

On the plus, it is a very well built and very reliable motor as my old daily driver (94 318is) has just over 400,000 km on the odomoter after I retired it from daily driving duties and just to note, the motor had never been openned up, saw only regular oil changes (full synthetic) and is still running very stong today.
I've got a lot respect for those engine's...

In your opinion, would it be worth putting into a fiero - if possible, it would definitely have to be a properly built motor for boost...love your VR6 swap by the way - very original!

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Austrian Import
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Report this Post11-07-2009 03:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Can you post more pics, or videos of the VR6?

I still haven't seen the exhaust, how you did the shifter, the dash, and other detail shots.

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bmwguru
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Report this Post11-07-2009 07:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sorry, I've been really busy with the Haus projects.
Joey's VR6 has a good layer of dust sitting on top of it right now since she has been travelling the country driving a 18 wheeler.
I'll try to remember to take those pics for you when I'm back in the shop on Monday.
My customer's projects come first....my orange and black V8 is sitting next to her VR6 with more dust on it and the wiring harness and new fueling system for the Webers waiting to go in. I put that project on hold because I am in the middle of trying to purchase a smashed up Passat 1.8t that has low miles. The insurance company is holding the car now, so I'm dealing with them. That 1.8t would be the perfect replacement for the V8 once it is modded.
Dave

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lildevil
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Report this Post11-09-2009 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lildevilClick Here to visit lildevil's HomePageClick Here to Email lildevilSend a Private Message to lildevilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Whats up with all the GTOs ?

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bmwguru
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Report this Post11-10-2009 05:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That video was taken at Blackram's house in Kentucky. I believe the GTOs are his son's and friends.
Dave

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Report this Post11-12-2009 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ViperBlue85GTClick Here to Email ViperBlue85GTSend a Private Message to ViperBlue85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

First off...Very nice!!

My Friend has a Modified VR6 out of his GTI that I was thinking about picking up.

I had a few questions I wanted to ask you first...

First off...His Motor


2001 VR6
Bored .30 over
294 Techtonic cams
High Performance intake manifold
Polished Heads
JE Pistons
All built by MJM Motorsports (a strictly European Auto shop that specializes in VR6 mods)
Motor is pushing just under 300horses (275-290)

Question 1:
How would you rate this against the 3800SC and Northstar V8 swaps?

2:
I will completely read your thread, but Was there a lot of cutting and welding? Did you have to buy or make custom parts or could you use most of the Stock and/or VW parts in the swap? Could you use the VW Tranny? In my case it would be a Eurospec 6speed.

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bmwguru
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Report this Post11-12-2009 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ViperBlue85GT:

First off...Very nice!!

My Friend has a Modified VR6 out of his GTI that I was thinking about picking up.

I had a few questions I wanted to ask you first...

First off...His Motor


2001 VR6
Bored .30 over
294 Techtonic cams
High Performance intake manifold
Polished Heads
JE Pistons
All built by MJM Motorsports (a strictly European Auto shop that specializes in VR6 mods)
Motor is pushing just under 300horses (275-290)

Question 1:
How would you rate this against the 3800SC and Northstar V8 swaps?

2:
I will completely read your thread, but Was there a lot of cutting and welding? Did you have to buy or make custom parts or could you use most of the Stock and/or VW parts in the swap? Could you use the VW Tranny? In my case it would be a Eurospec 6speed.


I am very familiar with MJM. That is where I purchased the Peloquin LSD. I never drove a N*, but I own a 3800s/c Fiero. They are two completely different feels. The VR6 has a very high revving engine and is similiar to most European cars. The 3800 is more like a typical American muscle car. I used the VW 02J transmission and I made all the custom parts/mounts/brackets etc to make the swap function. The engine computer still thinks it is in the Jetta it came out of.
The only difference between the GTI and Fiero is there is no FWD torque steer in the Fiero.
Dave

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ViperBlue85GT
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Report this Post11-12-2009 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ViperBlue85GTClick Here to Email ViperBlue85GTSend a Private Message to ViperBlue85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


yeah, just German cars....and my Fieros. I get a lot of compliments and insults from my customers about my Fieros...as for the insults, I add 10% to their bill..j/k
Dave


I know you posted this a LONG time ago but just thought I would throw this out there...It's called a PIMA Charge (Pain In My A$$)...you can actually add that to the bill and BS people with it being some gov. tax on...(fill the blank with something in your profession)
Also, If you go somewhere and see a PIMA Charge, 1. it is NOT a Gov. Tax on anything, and 2. They don't like you

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Report this Post11-17-2009 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ViperBlue85GT, I'm sure BMWguru would be able to help you with the swap. It would be really cool to see more Fieros with German High Reving engines.

PM BMWg., maybe the two of you could work something out regarding swap parts. (adapters, etc.) No need to reinvent the wheel.

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bmwguru
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Report this Post11-17-2009 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I think a VW 1.8t (225hp) would be a cool swap. I'm leaning towards that for the Formula I recently picked up. But I told Joey I would wait a few years and see what technology brings us. The price of Jettas seemed to have drastically dropped in the past year. I had a 2002 GLS 1.8t in my shop today that was for sale for $800. The only thing that was good on the car was the engine, pcm and wiring, but that's all that is needed.
Dave

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Report this Post11-18-2009 11:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

After talking to a few race car drivers, (we had a Mazdaspeed3 testing event a few months ago at Laguna Seca) my exitement for the Audi TFSI 4-banger has been rekindled.

Long story short: The consensus of a longer conversation between many race car, and test drivers was the TFSI 4-banger is one of the best examples of a Direct Injection, Turbo - 4banger transverse fwd engine.

^ Hopefully they'll come down in price soon.

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bmwguru
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Report this Post05-31-2010 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here is a little spring bump to get this thread back on top.....

I was very pleased with 99% of this swap except for the shifter and the exhaust. So, today we decided to build the exhaust from scratch, making it perfect.

Before.... (a quick fab/hackjob. function, but ugly)



the materials....



After.....(flex pipe added, new Y pipe, same muffler and tips. Joey wanted the same sound but better)



------------------

www.hausofguru.com

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 05-31-2010).]

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ryoleous
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Report this Post05-31-2010 04:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryoleousClick Here to Email ryoleousSend a Private Message to ryoleousEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Who ever welded up that exhaust for your VR6 did a dam good job :P

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bmwguru
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Report this Post05-31-2010 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ryoleous:

Who ever welded up that exhaust for your VR6 did a dam good job :P


Yes Ryan,
You did an excellent job on that fabrication....I will treat you to a ride in the car once the oil pan is replaced. The VR6 suffered the fabled typical oil drain plug failure. The drain plug removes the threads from the pan when changing the oil. Fortunately, oil pan replacement is about a 30 minute job on this swap.
Dave

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jeffdean42
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Report this Post06-14-2010 02:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jeffdean42Click Here to Email jeffdean42Send a Private Message to jeffdean42Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

whats the weight of this motor fully dressed?

how hard was it to mount in the fireo? are you using the vr6 transmission? whats the max power it hold?

what you do about fuel pump? Computer? speedo cluster?

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bmwguru
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Report this Post06-14-2010 06:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by jeffdean42:

whats the weight of this motor fully dressed?

how hard was it to mount in the fireo? are you using the vr6 transmission? whats the max power it hold?

what you do about fuel pump? Computer? speedo cluster?


I'm not sure of the engine weight, but I believe it is lighter than the Fiero 2.8.....or at least it feels lighter. I am using the VR6 transmission. There are many optional gearsets available for it. Not sure of the max power, but there are a few VR6 cars running in the 9 second range with turbo setups. The original fuel pump was a Warlbro, but I downgraded to a 'Vette pump (the same one I have in the 3800 swap). I am running the factory VR6 computer with tuning mods done to it. The cluster is a set of VDO gauges.
Dave

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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post06-14-2010 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

From http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1330808
2.8L VR6 motor weighs ~400lbs with manifolds, etc all attatched.

The shipping weight I have down is 520lb, which was a full swap with tranny and wiring. Trans is probably 80-100lbs as I can lift one up by myself but its a little awkward.

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HausFiero
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Report this Post06-15-2010 03:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HausFieroSend a Private Message to HausFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Out of curiosity, do u make a kit for this or specific parts for it? And I'm guessin the computer and wiring was the hardest part? What had to be done to mount it?

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