I must say that this swap might have created more interest than any other swap being done on this forum in 2008. Perhaps this is because it is so unorthodox. Dave brought the VR6 Fiero to last months GSFC meeting and it looks like the VR6 Fiero is a very well done and neat installation. It reminds me of a N* swap where the engine compartment looks totally full but when the engine is started the sound is totally European. This swap may only be for the select few but it has been a labor of love for Dave who has created one unique automobile. Knowing Dave I can only guess that he will redesign the suspension so it performs like a Porsch-LOL!. IMO swaps like this are one in a million and I don't see Dave doing another one as I'll make another guess; at his shop rate he has $75,000 worth of labor in this swap .
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Yeah, I don't think I can stay away from complicated swaps. It keeps me focused. Although, now that the swap is finished and the body shop is taking the car in, I'll be able to finally catch up on the work around the house. Shawn(halolush) and I are doing a swap this winter. I'll be picking up the donor car within the next few weeks. The only thing I am going to say about this next swap is that it will be more intense. I'm not going to do a build thread because there is a 50% chance that we won't be able to pull it off, but we're going to try....and yes it is a german based engine. Happy Holidays Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-31-2008).]
Bmwguru, since you're very knowledgeable about German cars, maybe you can answer a question for me that I've been kicking around for a while. I've got a 2002 Mercedes C230 Kompressor as a daily driver (2.3L 16v supercharged, 6 speed manual transmission) and have been kicking around the idea of buying a Mercedes 190e and transplanting my current car's drive train (rebuilt for more power) into it when I'm ready for a new daily driver. I've always loved the 190's since I saw Senna beat the then current F1 stars and would love to have a high performance/modern drivetrain 190 16v. Is this even possible or should I just look at getting a 190 2.3 16v. I'd rather do the drivetrain transplant as the Cosworth 16v's are a bit expensive (for a good one) and as I've heard, maintenance on one is also very expensive. Will this be my next project car after my fiero is complete or not?
Sorry to get off topic, but I'm very curious and again you seem to really know your German cars. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
wow, after reading this entire thread the moment i'm ready for a serious swap in my fiero im driving all the way up to jersey for it. Your really know what your doing BMW some would call you a madman but im glad the Fiero enthusiasts have someone like you on theyre side!
Bmwguru, since you're very knowledgeable about German cars, maybe you can answer a question for me that I've been kicking around for a while. I've got a 2002 Mercedes C230 Kompressor as a daily driver (2.3L 16v supercharged, 6 speed manual transmission) and have been kicking around the idea of buying a Mercedes 190e and transplanting my current car's drive train (rebuilt for more power) into it when I'm ready for a new daily driver. I've always loved the 190's since I saw Senna beat the then current F1 stars and would love to have a high performance/modern drivetrain 190 16v. Is this even possible or should I just look at getting a 190 2.3 16v. I'd rather do the drivetrain transplant as the Cosworth 16v's are a bit expensive (for a good one) and as I've heard, maintenance on one is also very expensive. Will this be my next project car after my fiero is complete or not?
Sorry to get off topic, but I'm very curious and again you seem to really know your German cars. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and Happy New Year
There would be a lot involved in dropping in the C230K engine and transmission. It almost wouldn't be worth it with the high failure rate of the superchargers. You would basically need the entire front half of the car and keep in mind the engine needs to see signals from the EIS, and instrument cluster to work. If it were an automatic, the shifter has its own module and that would be another issue. The 16v 102 engine would be a nice swap. You also could drop in a turbo 103 2.6 or 3.0. There are a few of them making some decent numbers. You also can find a five speed manual transmission from a 300e or 190e as well. If I were to concider an engine swap in a 190e, it would be either of those two....or go crazy and drop a V8 from an Audi V8 Quattro or a Porsche 928.
quote
Originally posted by red84fieroman:
wow, after reading this entire thread the moment i'm ready for a serious swap in my fiero im driving all the way up to jersey for it. Your really know what your doing BMW some would call you a madman but im glad the Fiero enthusiasts have someone like you on theyre side!
Thanks. You'll probably get a kick out of our next swap. The research is done and we are ready for the build. Just a couple of pennies short, so I'll be posting some stuff up for sale on ebay.
Just found your thread and read all 14 pages! I have to say I am truly impressed with the level of perfection you put into this swap. It doesn't get much better than the level of craftsmanship you put into your project. I and several other have been theorizing on an interesting swap for the Fiero based Ferrari F40 replica I am in the process of buying. I'll shoot you a PM on the details as I would like to get a "second set of eyes" on my plan. Matt
Thanks. You'll probably get a kick out of our next swap. The research is done and we are ready for the build. Just a couple of pennies short, so I'll be posting some stuff up for sale on ebay.
Great, thanks for the info. Not what I wanted to hear but its what I expected. Thanks again.
The body shop is getting ready to finally take the car in. The color has been chosen and it is another one of a kind paint jobs (as of today) in the Fiero world. The delay was caused by a leaky sunroof that just started. I wound up replacing the tracks that were rotted away and a new sunroof seal. Also drilled the holes for the drains while I was in there. Hose tested and it is all good. I will post in progress at the body shop pics to continue this thread. Here are a few shots of the new tracks and seal. I should have done a step by step for the tracks being that I didn't find much info on replacement of the tracks. I also made some slight mods under the tracks to prevent any future leaking. Dave
Dave you really aren't giving any hints on the new build are you?
No hints yet. Only a few know what we are planning. I have to take care of a couple of other customer's projects first. Anyway, I'll be bringing the VR6 home for the weekend so Joey can have one last outing in it before it gets dropped off on Wednesday at the body shop. In the meantime, I'll be working on the bigger brake kit using the Audi TT brakes and I'll shop for rims and tires. Dave
Just an update..... The VR6 was driven to the body shop one hour ago. The grand scheme of the paint is still a secret at this time. Unfortunately, those who have been informed...well, the color has changed and it will be a one of a kind paint job. Hopefully, my shop will have a good year to be able to cover this Here are some before pics.....
nothing new yet. The car is still at the body shop...all the body panels off from what I heard. I'll update once I have something new. In the meantime, I am working on another project that I should keep me occupied for the next few weeks. Dave
Its so sad to hear that my car is all apart at the body shop.... I really miss lighting up the tires at the stop lights!
Since most of you know I LOVE going on crazy road trips.... I was thinking about maybe doing some traveling in the VR-6. I'd only be able to do weekend trips so I could be back home for Dave to go to work....
Keep an eye out for a road trip thread in o/t....
Until then.... the paint will be kept secret until I get my car back..... Sorry guys!
We'll keep ya informed about the time frame as well as we can.
I'm so proud of my husband for being able to pull off this swap.... I didn't have any doubts that he could do it....
I absolutely love my car and can't wait to get it back!!!!!
I measured the GM 2.8 end to end with transmission and got 36". I measured the VW 2.8 and got 33.5" This should be easier than I thought. Dave
What was the length of just the VR6 engine? I'm trying to compile different VW/Audi engines for a longitudinal set-up. I figure it should be the same length as the W12 which comes in at 22" from transmission flange to the front crank pulley, I've heard they use similar heads. If you ever get a 2.7L Bi-turbo in your shop it would be nice to know the length on that too.
I've seen the Bi-turbo squeezed into the back of a Lotus Elise and the 4.2L V8 (20" long) shoehorned into a Lotus Esprit both with the 6-speed 01X. I stopped researching the W8 (17" long) because I heard they were unserviceable. Something about head gaskets not being available. You wouldn't tell us your next project so I hope I didn't spoil anything by bringing up these combos ideas. If you want to see an Audi bi-turbo 4.2L checkout the Gumpert, TopGear did an episode on it; 650 HP.
Originally posted by suPrcarNthusiast: What was the length of just the VR6 engine? I'm trying to compile different VW/Audi engines for a longitudinal set-up. I figure it should be the same length as the W12 which comes in at 22" from transmission flange to the front crank pulley, I've heard they use similar heads. If you ever get a 2.7L Bi-turbo in your shop it would be nice to know the length on that too.
I've seen the Bi-turbo squeezed into the back of a Lotus Elise and the 4.2L V8 (20" long) shoehorned into a Lotus Esprit both with the 6-speed 01X. I stopped researching the W8 (17" long) because I heard they were unserviceable. Something about head gaskets not being available. You wouldn't tell us your next project so I hope I didn't spoil anything by bringing up these combos ideas. If you want to see an Audi bi-turbo 4.2L checkout the Gumpert, TopGear did an episode on it; 650 HP.
Look forward to the next project announcement.
The secret project got put on hold for a few moths while I setup the "Haus of Guru" which will open part of my shop to the Fiero community whois looking for high quality swap work. I have a 2.7 bi turbo and a 4.2 S4 in my shop right now, but measuring the engines while they are in the car might be tricky. I do have a 2.8 AHA 30v from a 2000 A6 out of the car right now. I can measure that, but honestly the 1.8t can be made to be more than enough power. Austrian Import sent me a link from ebay with a 2.0t up for auction cheap. If I wan't already committed to a few jobs, I would have picked it up and swapped it in a Fiero. That would have been very nice. As for the W8...everything is available. Most of it will have to be ordered from the dealership. Dave
I was just going to say a 1.8T swap would be sweet. It would be easy to get 250 HP / 270 TQ with this set up and the lighter engine might be better suited to the Fiero as well.
Its so sad to hear that my car is all apart at the body shop.... I really miss lighting up the tires at the stop lights!
Since most of you know I LOVE going on crazy road trips.... I was thinking about maybe doing some traveling in the VR-6. I'd only be able to do weekend trips so I could be back home for Dave to go to work....
Keep an eye out for a road trip thread in o/t....
Until then.... the paint will be kept secret until I get my car back..... Sorry guys!
We'll keep ya informed about the time frame as well as we can.
I'm so proud of my husband for being able to pull off this swap.... I didn't have any doubts that he could do it....
I absolutely love my car and can't wait to get it back!!!!!
Joey (bmwguru's wife)
So, Mr or Miz Guru...(lol) any word on when the VR(ooom)-6 is coming out of the paint shop? Pics??
------------------ '88 Formula - 4.9 conversion by The Fiero Factory
[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 04-19-2009).]
I was just going to say a 1.8T swap would be sweet. It would be easy to get 250 HP / 270 TQ with this set up and the lighter engine might be better suited to the Fiero as well.
A TDI swap would be cool, too, especially with the torque you can get out of a diesel...and run it on biodiesel. (Most people don't realize that Otto Diesel originally designed his engine to run on peanut oil.)
So, Mr or Miz Guru...(lol) any word on when the VR(ooom)-6 is coming out of the paint shop? Pics??
All I am gonna say is.....
It's coming along nicely. I'll be heading back to the body shop once a week so I can see the progress. Dave will post the pics when I finally get it back.
Still at the body shop getting the "show quality" paint job done. I am really really wanting Joey to get her car back so that I can drive it she can drive it. Dave
I'll be spending quite a bit of time with the body shop guys this coming week to oversee the details. I should be able to pick up my car in about 2 weeks! I will be taking pics of the progress, but wont be posting them til I get my car back....
I saw Joey's vision in person for the first time today and all I can say is ZOMG! (inside joke). Wow. What we had originally talked about has gone past anything I could have thought of. There were hours of time spent on the "flashy part" of the paintjob. This exceeds my orange and black GT, and Joey is to be given the full credit for her design. Here is a teaser pic that doesn't reveal too much except for the base coat. If all goes well, she will have her car back in her hands within ten days and driving it across the country within a month. Dave
