i have a 3800SC engine waiting to go in mine. I have a friend who is helping me with my swap who has a 3800NA in his and his is so much fun. Having the V8 sound would be nice but if you set the exahust up right it wont sound bad at all. I decided to go 3800SC mainly for reliability. I have a grand prix GTP and that engine was great! never gave me any problems and was fun to drive. Im keeping my engine stock for a good while because it will be plenty fast for me. Also the 3800 gets very good MPG (not saying a V8 cant) and the V8's get good numbers too but overall iv seen the 3800's get better. But, as many people in this thread this is my opinion and also if money were no object i would probably put and Ls3 in mine but im going to cheap easy and reliable DD
i gota stop laughing lets see NA V6 with best heads race trim 600 hp SBC NA with best heads 900 + HP V6 turbo race engine 1400 HP SBC turbo race engine 2000 + HP bigest problem with a fiero is getting a transmission that can handle the low end torque of the V8 the turbo V6 makes good torque but it is a bit higher in the rpm and works better with the fiero
I laugh at these v8 guys that claim big low end torque while its being used for a half second at a stand still. Horsepower is easy, getting it to the ground is more difficult. Real world results are showing that a boosted 3800 works best in our fieros.
(I wish there was as sticky or sub forum for v6 vs v8 threads, these are the most fun!)
Well while there are a couple really quick v8 fiero's out there. Looking at the quarter mile list here it is quite apparent that the fastest full bodied fiero's are by far 3800 cars with either supercharged or turbocharged engines. So far we have not really seen a very fast v8 fiero unless it was an out and out tube framed drag car. The v6 powerplant and the various swapped trannies that have been used with it are obviously the ticket for a fast fiero. The fact that they are also reliable typically, get very good mileage, are among the least expensive of the engine swaps typically done in the fiero, and look good installed is even more reason to look toward this engine swap for a very quick fiero. The idea that a v8 can make massive power either NA or force injected is really irrelevant. If you cannot make it fit and hookup all the power in the world is useless to you. These 3800 cars are already pushing enough power to break axles, trannies, mounts, you name it. These little cars just seem to really respond to the KIND of power these motors can give them. Personally having heard and driven a 3800SC fiero and seen many many videos of them running here I really do not understand the comments about them not sounding good. I quite like the way they sound and the whine of the SC is pretty awesome when you hit the skinny pedal. It was actually quite hard to keep the tires planted....hehehe peace
i gota stop laughing lets see NA V6 with best heads race trim 600 hp SBC NA with best heads 900 + HP V6 turbo race engine 1400 HP SBC turbo race engine 2000 + HP bigest problem with a fiero is getting a transmission that can handle the low end torque of the V8 the turbo V6 makes good torque but it is a bit higher in the rpm and works better with the fiero
Let's see you just finish an actual swap and stop talking about all types of different motors out there...
MstangsBware i did a 3.4 dohc and blew it up and if you read my post it said it looks like the 3800 works best in a fiero but the fact is it doesn't make it the best engine in the world it just makes it the best suited for a fiero.
MstangsBware this is a forum isn't it ? i do come on and talk about many engine combos due to it is fun for me to do and you come on to talk about things you like right so give this guy your opinion and don't attack others for there opinion
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 05-08-2012).]
How hard is it for you to change your sparkplugs?? All in all its purely a matter of personal preference on which motor you chose to install.
easy.
Just wondering why you edited my post from 3800 to 3900?
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I stay out of threads like this because there is so much heat generated over this topic that it can make the choice hard to make. But my contribution to this thread is purly opinion and may very from person to person depending on expectationa wants and needs.
My LS4 gets about 25mpg "looks" is a VERY subjective term. Ithink the Short Star "looks" better than a 3900
MstangsBware i did a 3.4 dohc and blew it up and if you read my post it said i looks like the 3800 works best in a fiero but the fact is it doesn't make it the best engine in the world it just makes it the best suited for a fiero.
MstangsBware this is a forum isn't it i do come on and talk about many engine combos due to it is fun for me to do you come on and talk about things you like right so give this guy your opinion and don't attack others for there opinion
Your comparison was meaningless and still it is. I can say a turbo LS3 will blow away your turbo 3800. Bottom line compare oranges to oranges and do not mislead.
This discussion is about swapped cars. There is no stock.
As much as I enjoy these 3800 vs V8 threads - Me thinks that some peeps, can't help themselves and create an account every so often, state they are a noob and stir the proverbial pot. Then they are never heard from again.
Now with that said - Lets try to look at this from outside the box...
It's Friday or Saturday night and you are the "other guy" with a Mustang / Challenger / Camaro / Corvette etc
You get blown away by a Fiero. As you cross the finish line you notice the look on your buddies faces - But only the side of there faces because they were focused on the Fiero that was 2 car lengths ahead of you, but you can see the dismay and humiliation in there eyes
Now later on you and your buddies all hook up - Like you always do at Denny's / Ihop / Country Kitchen for your (Up Until Now) Raging Pancake Victory Breakfast. You order some French Toast and try to act as if things aren't as bad as they seem. You are still their hero right? Until your buddies start in with the following type of comments
NOW which statement is going to have a bigger impact cause a kinda poisonous spider bite, powerful lingering ego crushing shame?
Oh man that Fiero was fast but it's okay we could tell it has a V8 in it.
OR
Dude you just got yer ass handed to you buy a 6 cylinder Fiero!
Just sayin - How the other guy and his entourage might perceive it
Pappy loves a Sleeper Weeeeooooo!
[This message has been edited by Pappy (edited 05-09-2012).]
Very few real world challenges happen from a standing start, even with motorcycles. Guys don't like to abuse their nice stuff with launching. Other than a standing start, there is no handicap in having a V8 for acceleration. Having too much trouble hooking up does not make V8 weak. Very few 3800s, boosted any way you like, would be able to pull like Don's 427.
Very few real world challenges happen from a standing start, even with motorcycles. Guys don't like to abuse their nice stuff with launching. Other than a standing start, there is no handicap in having a V8 for acceleration. Having too much trouble hooking up does not make V8 weak. Very few 3800s, boosted any way you like, would be able to pull like Don's 427.
It's about 3800 vs the whole V8 World.... LOL ...Did I just quote RFT?
I do a LOT of drag strip type racing where ppl come to race and it is all from a dig.
Actually many of the videos of these 3800 cars were NOT off the line and the SC and turbocharged fiero's still smoke some pretty powerful cars. I love a v8 as much as the next guy probably more but in a fiero when it comes to speed and acceleration it is the 3800 FTW from what I see here. It is not all about quarter mile acceleration either. There are a few select v8 swaps that make some really good power but they are either not willing or not capable of posting evidence of their performance where we all can see it. Not saying it is not possible here really but so far it has not happened. The only truly fast fiero's I have seen with v8's were front engine rear wheel drive converted tube drag cars. A quick glance at the 1/4 mile thread will pretty much show you what you need to know. I am quite sure that if anyone had a really fast v8 fiero and ran a low ten or faster in the quarter with it we would ALL be hearing about it from the way that swap gets defended on here. It is probably going to be some sort of LS swap that is very well done and built for speed that eventually posts a quick time but so far they are pretty quiet. Personally after driving in and riding in the 3800SC cars I am sold. That is what is going in my car hopefully with a nice turbo system on it. Peace
Pete
[This message has been edited by Pete Matos (edited 05-09-2012).]
i gota stop laughing lets see NA V6 with best heads race trim 600 hp SBC NA with best heads 900 + HP V6 turbo race engine 1400 HP SBC turbo race engine 2000 + HP bigest problem with a fiero is getting a transmission that can handle the low end torque of the V8 the turbo V6 makes good torque but it is a bit higher in the rpm and works better with the fiero
Please point to the results that you are referencing in support of your statement. At least you seem to agree that for a Fiero the 3800's seem to work best. When we see Fiero's running in the 10's with a 3800 engine that says something The V8 Fiero's don't seem to be doing better. Don Kraus even did an LS-7 swap and as far as we know he didn't beat his 3800 times. Peak output of the 472 C.I. LS-7 engine is 505 hp (377 kW) at 6300 rpm and 470 lb·ft (640 N·m) at 4800 rpm with a 7100 rpm redline. I don't doubt that there are fast V8 Fiero's but where are the results???
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
PLEASE!! Stick to less controversial topics like religion or politics.
QFT.
Really though, I thought for years that I was going to put a .350 in a Fiero, after reading this, and a couple other places, and seeing some videos, I will be going with the 38ooSC, and I think I'll be better off, prolly cheaper too.
" Don Kraus even did an LS-7 swap and as far as we know he didn't beat his 3800 times."
As i recall, Don broke everything trying to hook up all that torque. That's the V8 problem. Any fool knows there is more power available in the V8s. The fact that it doesn't work as well as the 3800 because of the Fiero's limits doesn't change that fact. The 3800 is perfect for the Fiero. That is not a reason to bad mouth other drivetrains. There is a twin turbo Chevy in a VIPER out there, and LS motors can be found at the track in Mustangs. I don't see this happening with 3800s.
There is the key there, RWD setups. The typical RWD setup has more drive-train loss but can handle so much more torque on average then a FWD setup. Don't get me wrong, there are some crazy fast FWD setups out there, but again, on average, they have more HP then torque, or else they would be snapping half-shafts left and right.
Actually there are many many 3800 swapped cars out there. Just do a youtube search for 3800 SC or 3800 turbo. These cars are often rear wheel drive cars and are making stupid fast horsepower. This is in addition to the front wheel drive cars that are out there. Many are making some really impressive runs that would rival about anything out there. This is NOT just a fiero thing believe it. I recently read a thread where a guy built his Grand National and blew up the motor and could not find replacement parts reasonably priced so he went with a 3800 SC motor and set it up for the national. First time out it ran a low ten second quarter!! There are also quite a few firechickens and camaros running these motors in a RWD setup and going pretty damn fast. Your arguments are valid and yeah there are some wicked powerful LS series motors out there but that does not mean that there are not other motors doing the same things. The 3800 engine is a proven entity in more than just the fiero. Do some research man... peace
This discussion certainly changed my mind. Once I watched that ride along video of the Fiero at night, that was it for me. As soon as I can (in a couple years), Im going with a 38SC.
Actually there are many many 3800 swapped cars out there. Just do a youtube search for 3800 SC or 3800 turbo. These cars are often rear wheel drive cars and are making stupid fast horsepower. This is in addition to the front wheel drive cars that are out there. Many are making some really impressive runs that would rival about anything out there. This is NOT just a fiero thing believe it. I recently read a thread where a guy built his Grand National and blew up the motor and could not find replacement parts reasonably priced so he went with a 3800 SC motor and set it up for the national. First time out it ran a low ten second quarter!! There are also quite a few firechickens and camaros running these motors in a RWD setup and going pretty damn fast. Your arguments are valid and yeah there are some wicked powerful LS series motors out there but that does not mean that there are not other motors doing the same things. The 3800 engine is a proven entity in more than just the fiero. Do some research man... peace
Pete
Found this but agree that its an extreme example as to what the 3800 is capable of: ZZ Performance built by Zoomer on the Pontiac Grand Prix platform. FWD 3800 8.6582 @ 158.97mph and 870WHP at the wheels
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-10-2012).]
Actually there are many many 3800 swapped cars out there. Just do a youtube search for 3800 SC or 3800 turbo. These cars are often rear wheel drive cars and are making stupid fast horsepower. This is in addition to the front wheel drive cars that are out there. Many are making some really impressive runs that would rival about anything out there. This is NOT just a fiero thing believe it. I recently read a thread where a guy built his Grand National and blew up the motor and could not find replacement parts reasonably priced so he went with a 3800 SC motor and set it up for the national. First time out it ran a low ten second quarter!! There are also quite a few firechickens and camaros running these motors in a RWD setup and going pretty damn fast. Your arguments are valid and yeah there are some wicked powerful LS series motors out there but that does not mean that there are not other motors doing the same things. The 3800 engine is a proven entity in more than just the fiero. Do some research man... peace
Pete
I am NOT knocking the 3800, it's what I'm running. I'm saying don't knock the V8s. The occasional very fast 3800 is not "common", and let me know when they hit the high 6 seconds like Mr. Larsons Nova or some of those 7 second V8 rides.
Originally posted by weaselbeak: I am NOT knocking the 3800, it's what I'm running. I'm saying don't knock the V8s. The occasional very fast 3800 is not "common", and let me know when they hit the high 6 seconds like Mr. Larsons Nova or some of those 7 second V8 rides.
Eveything is always subject to siting another example. Lets look at some 4 cylinder guys. Don Nase Jrs 4 cylinder turbo Ecotec runs in the mid 6's while the fastest 1/4 mile time recorded by a Honda Civic was 7.3 seconds.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Well I don't remember ever bashing v8 swaps, in fact I think any high HP swap in a fiero is a cool thing. Also last I checked Larry Larson's Nova was NOT an LSX motor...It is a seriously fed 596 inch big block chevy. The fastest cars out there running 3800 motors ,aside from the cousin motors buick v6 turbos that are sick fast, there are quite a few very fast cars that are making some pretty impressive numbers. For instance there is Tim Kings 3800 twin turbo series II firebird. That car made 800 plus HP and was running in the eights too and would have probably gone faster if he had not switched to a different car. The ZZperformance Grand Prix is also an eight second car. I think with more money and tuning either of those cars could be into the low eights or even a seven second quarter. Besides the 3800 SC motors the Buick cousin motors are even more impressive and so far the worlds fastest I believe is this one....
Just because it has not happened with the 3800 SC motors does not mean it cannot. The simple fact that guys like Darkhorizon and others here can make ten second cars from a fiero with this motor often on a shoestring budget is even more evidence to the performance potential of the block. A lot of these cars are running completely stock bottom ends on the cars too... For me one of the MOST impressive things I have ever seen was a green wicked built Buick Grand National I saw run at Moroso Motor Sports Park down in florida many years ago. It ran a low seven second quarter mile and was so quiet doing it you could barely hear it run. After that amazing run I toured the pits and spoke to the owner and he was very cool. He said he actually drove the car around his town occasionally but it was for sure a race car. I will never forget how that thing would sit at the tree and build that MONSTER boost and seeing the whole front of the car lift and the wheels start to tuck under from the torque. Then when that light turned green that thing was GONE in a way you would have to see to believe. I realize the GN motor is not the same as the 3800 SC motor but it is not that different either. In some ways the 3800 is even a stronger motor. So the reality is here that it is not whether or not the motor can be built to make ridiculous power, it is how much money do you have to spend doing it. A turbo 3800 engine in ANY car is a force to be reckoned with no matter what is in the other lane.
I think the newer LS engines are amazing and are light years away from the small block chevy that spawned them and with some tasteful mods can make most impressive power. That does not mean it is better than the v6 or the v4 for that matter. It is just another way to build a fast car. Some of the four and six cylinder japanese cars are freaking ridiculous in performance when built right. It is what floats your boat and more importantly what you can make work and hookup that wins races. In the Fiero so far it is by far the 3800 engines that rule.... When someone builds a super quick built LS motor in a fiero I will be first in line to congratulate them and want to watch the video.....hehe peace
I've been saying that forever. And as far as I can tell, the fastest LS car is around 6.5 and 204 MPH. And I am fully aware of the quality and potential of the 3800. It is, after all, one of the ten best engines ever built.
Will should be able to compare apples to apples once Troy's car is complete with the SC install.....A 3800SC vs SC LS7......Let's start placing bets....
Supercharged ls7? I was not aware that the regular ls7 ever put up anything but an average Dyno reading? Putting any 6speed f40 fiero in the 10s is going to require more than a supercharger.
