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AC Compressor Switches by RWDPLZ
Started on: 07-20-2011 11:57 PM
Replies: 23 (2802 views)
Last post by: Will on 05-21-2014 02:53 PM
RWDPLZ
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07-20-2011 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Introduction

The Fiero was available with air conditioning all model years, 1984 through 1988. During that time, there were three compressors used: DA6, HR6, and V5. The DA6 compressor was used on 84 and 85 four cylinder cars, and 85-87 V6 cars, until some time in the 1987 model year, when GM changed over to the HR6 compressor, an improved version of the DA6, which was used on late 1987 V6 cars and 88 V6 cars. The following applies only to the DA6 and HR6 compressors, NOT the V5.

Being externally nearly identical, both the DA6 and HR6 compressors function the same way, and are interchangeable. However, the more reliable HR6 is recommended any time repair or replacement is needed. The HR6 is also rated for use with R-134A refrigerant when doing a retrofit.

Both compressors use two switches mounted in the back as safety devices: the low pressure cut-off switch, and the high-pressure cut-off switch. These switches are interchangeable between compressors.

Switch Functions

The low pressure cut-off switch is normally open. This can be tested by using a multimeter set to continuity mode. There should be no continuity between the large round metal body, and the contact on top of the switch. When pressures inside the compressor reach a certain point, the switch will close, and turn on the radiator fan. This is designed to increase airflow over the condenser, and lower the system pressure. The switch closes at approximately 280 psi.

The high-pressure cut-off switch is normally closed. This can be tested by using a multimeter set to continuity mode. There should be continuity between the large round metal body, and the contact on top of the switch. When pressures inside the compressor reach a certain point, the switch will open, turning off the compressor, disengaging the compressor clutch plate. The switch opens at approximately 425 psi, and closes at approximately 200 psi.

New VS Old Style Switches

For whatever reason, the old style switches are no longer available. They have been replaced by switches that use new connectors, and are no longer grounded through the compressor body. When changing the old switches out for the new style, one side of the new connectors needs to be grounded, and the other side connected to the original wiring. The new connectors may be purchased with or without the new style switches.

The two types of switches used originally in the Fiero were the red pin switch, and the white 'mushroom' switch. The red switch is the high pressure cut-off switch, and the white switch is the low pressure cut-off switch. The easiest way to remember this is the white switch controls the radiator fan, uses the same type of connector as the radiator cooling fan switch.



Both switches have been replaced by the following:

Santech part # MT0671
Santech part # MT0678

Both of the above include the switch, connector, o-ring, and C-clip, for ease of installation.

MT0671, replaces the low pressure (white mushroom) switch. It is normally open, and closes at 283 psi, and reopens at 210 psi. It is colored purple.



MT0678, replaces the high pressure (red pin) cut-off switch. It is normally closed, and opens at 430 psi, and closes again at 200 psi. It is colored blue.



Both switches include HNBR o-rings, typically green, that are both R-12 and R-134A compatible.

Replacement of the switches is the same as the originals: Remove the snap rings using snap ring pliers, and pull the switch straight up and out. Remove the old o-ring. Coat new o-ring in compressor oil, and place into groove in compressor. Push new switch into the compressor, and replace the snap ring.

Part Numbers:

All are Santech brand unless otherwise noted

Low pressure switch: MT0500
Low pressure switch connector: MT0135
Low pressure switch kit: MT0671

High pressure switch: MT0447
High pressure switch connector: MT0136
High pressure switch kit: MT0678

Switch O-rings: AC Delco part # 15-30999

------------------

1984 Fiero SE

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Dennis LaGrua
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07-21-2011 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Good info worth a positive. :
However all HR 6 compressors do not have a high pressure switch. The 4.9L version comes to mind. For these applications a switch on an external switch port can be used.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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Kevin87FieroGT
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07-21-2011 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

When I replace my fan switch on the compressor recently the replaced switch needed a new connector. The new connector, as listed above, comes with two wires as opposed to a single wire on the stock connector. The instructions with the new connector stated to connect one wire to the existing switch wire and the other wire to a ground. When the connector was wired according to the directions I was unable to turn off the radiator cooling fan wether the A/C was running, or not. The fan would also run any time the ignition switch was in ACC. with a cold cooling system. After a search here I found a posting that said to only connect one of the new connector wires to the existing wire and "do not" connect the other wire to the ground. Well, I disconnected the ground and the radiator fan operated as it was suppose to and all is good.

Great writeup RWDPLZ!!!

[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 07-21-2011).]

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cptsnoopy
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07-21-2011 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thank you for sharing. + headed your way.

Charlie

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randye
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07-21-2011 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I stumbled through all this switch replacement business last year when I overhauled my A/C system.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/107037.html

2 terminal, high pressure cut-off switch from Factory Air / 4 Seasons, PART NUMBER: 35974 ($27.00)
2 terminal low pressure / condenser fan switch from Factory Air / 4 Seasons, PART NUMBER: 35969, ($29.79)

( Note that the color of the switch may be different from various manufacturers)

You might have to tinker around with connecting or disconnecting the ground wires, as I also had the problem of the constant running fan until I disconnected the low pressure switch ground wire. All works as it should since then and my A/C is still blowing COLD this summer.

------------------

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-21-2011).]

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spark1
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07-21-2011 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for spark1Send a Private Message to spark1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Good info. I didn't have the Santech numbers but here are the GM/Delco/4-Seasons numbers:


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sricka01
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01-21-2013 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sricka01Send a Private Message to sricka01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Bump. This question is directed to RWDPLZ and RANDYE. I have an 88 GT that had for lack of a better term an "explosion" from the engine area last fall. A hazy mushroom cloud effect, it was something to see! The compressor was making a bit of noise for several weeks prior to that. I inspected the hoses and they seem fine between the firewall and compressor fitting. The compressor has some seepage around the front clutch area, so I assume the compressor exploded or that one of these switches blew out of the plug.

**If I buy a reman Four Seasons compressor, do they come with these switches installed or do I need to buy these separately?
If they are not part of the package, how do you wire them in to the factory setup?

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randye
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01-21-2013 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sricka01:

Bump. This question is directed to RWDPLZ and RANDYE. I have an 88 GT that had for lack of a better term an "explosion" from the engine area last fall. A hazy mushroom cloud effect, it was something to see! The compressor was making a bit of noise for several weeks prior to that. I inspected the hoses and they seem fine between the firewall and compressor fitting. The compressor has some seepage around the front clutch area, so I assume the compressor exploded or that one of these switches blew out of the plug.

**If I buy a reman Four Seasons compressor, do they come with these switches installed or do I need to buy these separately?
If they are not part of the package, how do you wire them in to the factory setup?


The switches are NOT included with the Four Seasons Remanufactured compressor.
You will need to buy the switches AND the new mating plugs for them.

To wire them into the OEM harness is fairly simple. You will just cut the original single switch wires on the car, (do one at a time so that you dont confuse the high pressure cutoff switch with the fan switch), and simply splice in one of the two wires from the new switch plug.
The 2nd wire from each of the new plugs is a ground wire and you should run each of these wires to a good ground on the chassis or engine block.

NOTE: It doesnt matter which of the 2 wires you choose to splice into the harness or run to ground. Both switches simply complete or interrupt a circuit to ground. The reason for the 2 wires on the new switch connectors is that the old single wire switches grounded through the body of the A/C compressor and the new switches do not. Therefore the separate ground wire is required.
------------------

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-21-2013).]

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RWDPLZ
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01-21-2013 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

randye beat me to it, perfect explanation.

The seepage around the front clutch area is probably the front seal gone bad. They can be replaced, but you need about $100 in special tools and the $20 part, better off buying a new compressor without any issues. If the switch blew out of the plug, the leak would be back where the switch was.

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AL87
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03-07-2013 02:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

how does one identify the two different compressors namely in the 87 year?

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mike-ohio
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03-07-2013 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mike-ohioClick Here to visit mike-ohio's HomePageClick Here to Email mike-ohioSend a Private Message to mike-ohioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

HR-6 DA-6 pictures

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090219-2-085206.html

87-88 V5 compressor info

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090907-2-091489.html

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Lou6t4gto
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03-08-2013 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

funny, I installed a new comp in my 85 five years ago WITH NO SWITCHES, and it blows ice cold.( I Live in FLA.) I believe that the 1 pressure switch at the drier up front will shut it down if it runs out of freon. So aren't those switches at the compressor "Redundant" ? "Good Post Info"

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RWDPLZ
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03-08-2013 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Technically it will work with no switches in a DA6 or HR6 system, BUT the switches are safety devices. The fan switch one is redundant, but the high pressure cut-off switch is definitely a good idea to have.

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randye
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03-08-2013 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

funny, I installed a new comp in my 85 five years ago WITH NO SWITCHES, and it blows ice cold.( I Live in FLA.) I believe that the 1 pressure switch at the drier up front will shut it down if it runs out of freon. So aren't those switches at the compressor "Redundant" ? "Good Post Info"


From what I know of the 87-88 model years, (your 85 might be different), the switch up front at the receiver / dryer is a pressure CYCLING switch.
It turns the compressor on and off to maintain a selected system operating pressure.
That switch is adjustable, (such as when we set it for using R12 or R134A in the system which operate at different optimal pressures)
The radiator fan is also turned ON by the HVAC control head inside the dash when "A/C" is selected.

The two switches on the DA6 and HR6 compressor are arguably "redundant" (non-adjustable) safety switches, but considering the repair expense to the system from a failure of either of the two aforementioned switches, I am happy to know they are there and working properly.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-08-2013).]

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masospaghetti
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03-26-2013 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:
From what I know of the 87-88 model years, (your 85 might be different), the switch up front at the receiver / dryer is a pressure CYCLING switch.
It turns the compressor on and off to maintain a selected system operating pressure.
That switch is adjustable, (such as when we set it for using R12 or R134A in the system which operate at different optimal pressures)
The radiator fan is also turned ON by the HVAC control head inside the dash when "A/C" is selected.

The two switches on the DA6 and HR6 compressor are arguably "redundant" (non-adjustable) safety switches, but considering the repair expense to the system from a failure of either of the two aforementioned switches, I am happy to know they are there and working properly.


The fan control switch on the compressor is not really redundant. In defog mode, the control head does NOT command cooling fan operation (try it and see), but it does turn on the A/C compressor. The fan control switch turns on the fan once pressure in the a/c system rises.

Without it, your dehumidify function for the defogger won't work as well.

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sricka01
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04-29-2013 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sricka01Send a Private Message to sricka01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

How do you know the orientation of where to install the hi/lo pressure switch? Not sure which switch goes into the respective ports.

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Marvin McInnis
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04-29-2013 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sricka01:

Not sure which switch goes into the respective ports.



Either switch can be installed in either port. Both ports communicate with the compressor's high-pressure manifold. That said, the wiring harness may favor one switch placement over another.

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sricka01
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04-29-2013 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sricka01Send a Private Message to sricka01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:


Either switch can be installed in either port. Both ports communicate with the compressor's high-pressure manifold. That said, the wiring harness may favor one switch placement over another.


Wow, thank you Marvin. Of all the threads nobody mentioned this. I was stressing over looking at pics trying to figure out if there were stampings to explain which was LO or HI side.

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06-11-2013 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGT42Click Here to Email FieroGT42Send a Private Message to FieroGT42Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here is a link to Santech's illustrated catalog and application guide. Everything you needed to know and then some. Page 79 (81) has identification, switch pressure specs, alternate part numbers and more.

After a shop sent me the wrong switches twice, and then the wrong pigtails, I used this catalog to get exactly what I needed. Hope it helps some others.

Jason

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06-27-2013 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoxdinClick Here to Email BoxdinSend a Private Message to BoxdinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I would say its mandatory to replace the two switches. My 88 4cyl went 263,000 miles on the orig AC then one day I heard a swish type sound and no AC.
Upon autopsy the high side switch had broken and pressure got high enough to pop the safety valve. As seen above I was able to get 2 new switches of the right color and put them in w my new system.

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05-18-2014 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


From what I know of the 87-88 model years, (your 85 might be different), the switch up front at the receiver / dryer is a pressure CYCLING switch.
It turns the compressor on and off to maintain a selected system operating pressure.
That switch is adjustable, (such as when we set it for using R12 or R134A in the system which operate at different optimal pressures)
The radiator fan is also turned ON by the HVAC control head inside the dash when "A/C" is selected.

The two switches on the DA6 and HR6 compressor are arguably "redundant" (non-adjustable) safety switches, but considering the repair expense to the system from a failure of either of the two aforementioned switches, I am happy to know they are there and working properly.



I know this is an old thread... but I've seen this a few times in the archive... how do you suppose your system is working properly when you disconnected the ground wire?

I would posit that your switch is NOT capable of functioning with the ground disconnected. The so-called "low pressure" switch is really called the "Coolant fan a/c pressure switch". And with the ground disconnected it's incapable of turning on the radiator fan. Is that needed? Maybe, maybe not, but disconnecting the ground doesn't sound like the right answer to me.

My research seemed to reveal that if your fan runs all the time you have the wrong switch.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 05-18-2014).]

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randye
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05-18-2014 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


I know this is an old thread... but I've seen this a few times in the archive... how do you suppose your system is working properly when you disconnected the ground wire?

I would posit that your switch is NOT capable of functioning with the ground disconnected. The so-called "low pressure" switch is really called the "Coolant fan a/c pressure switch". And with the ground disconnected it's incapable of turning on the radiator fan. Is that needed? Maybe, maybe not, but disconnecting the ground doesn't sound like the right answer to me.

My research seemed to reveal that if your fan runs all the time you have the wrong switch.




Its been a LONG time since I messed around with the AC on my Fiero, and to be fair I DO indeed recall some sort of issues regarding a ground wire connection and a constantly running radiator fan, but I assure you Ol' Buddy I worked all the bugs out.

Last I looked, everything was wired up all Kosher and proper.

I believe I even said:

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


The switches are NOT included with the Four Seasons Remanufactured compressor.
You will need to buy the switches AND the new mating plugs for them.

To wire them into the OEM harness is fairly simple. You will just cut the original single switch wires on the car, (do one at a time so that you dont confuse the high pressure cutoff switch with the fan switch), and simply splice in one of the two wires from the new switch plug.
The 2nd wire from each of the new plugs is a ground wire and you should run each of these wires to a good ground on the chassis or engine block.

NOTE: It doesnt matter which of the 2 wires you choose to splice into the harness or run to ground. Both switches simply complete or interrupt a circuit to ground. The reason for the 2 wires on the new switch connectors is that the old single wire switches grounded through the body of the A/C compressor and the new switches do not. Therefore the separate ground wire is required.



The fan SHOULD be on constantly when the AC is selected, and the fan should cycle on and off normally with the fan control switch when the AC is off, (on the 2.8 or 3.4 swap), or thru the ECU... depending on your engine swap.
------------------

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-18-2014).]

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Will
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05-21-2014 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Interesting info... Looking into this for my Northstar, as that compressor only has a high pressure relief valve, but no switches.

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Will
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05-21-2014 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

funny, I installed a new comp in my 85 five years ago WITH NO SWITCHES, and it blows ice cold.( I Live in FLA.) I believe that the 1 pressure switch at the drier up front will shut it down if it runs out of freon. So aren't those switches at the compressor "Redundant" ? "Good Post Info"


Yes, they are redundant.
The pressure cycling switch (on the receiver/dryer in the front compartment) controls the compressor clutch during normal operation.

However, if your pressure cycling switch fails or your fan fuse blows or a few other failures, you'll like having the safety switches in the compressor.

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