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3800 Turbo Build by nosrac
Started on: 05-09-2012 10:45 PM
Replies: 787 (25416 views)
Last post by: MstangsBware on 08-27-2014 03:08 AM
MstangsBware
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Report this Post10-05-2012 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


To nothing as far as I can tell. Just some random bolts that crept in the space.


Those look like 2 of the three bolts that hold thecrear wheel bearing to spindle. Might wanna check to make sure..
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Report this Post10-05-2012 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


Those look like 2 of the three bolts that hold thecrear wheel bearing to spindle. Might wanna check to make sure..


On initial inspection I see both spindles is missing the bolt facing the rear away from the firewall.
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Report this Post10-05-2012 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DementiaClick Here to Email DementiaSend a Private Message to DementiaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah those were in a spot where happenstance just doesn't happen. Couldn't really fall in there from another spot.
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nosrac
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Report this Post10-09-2012 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did some more testing and tuning @ 13 psi but still can't to get the beast to spool up proper like.

I don't make any boost @ the line and the brake won't hold past 2Krpm.

The car doesn't start to "run" until 3psi so I need to at least make that at the line.

I am going to try DH antilag setup before I bite the bullet for the 3K stall Torque Converter.
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Report this Post10-09-2012 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LFiero67Click Here to Email LFiero67Send a Private Message to LFiero67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your going to need at least 2800 rpm on the foot brake to spool that. I can make 4 psi at 2400, but I have the 6262, and a smaller turbine housing. With "anti-lag" timing, big booster, booster vacuum pump and 2800 on the two step I can make about 8 psi, but that is on a 3250 converter and 11.25" brakes. You said you run street tires, so spooling on the line might not be the best idea anyway, although 13 psi hitting after launch might unload the suspension and blow the tires off as well. I think your going to have to try it at the track and see what works and what doesn't.

------------------
10.263 @ 134.44MPH - 1.49 60'
Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36.


Old M90 XP Cam time -
11.425 @115.60
1.543 60'

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Report this Post10-09-2012 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


On initial inspection I see both spindles is missing the bolt facing the rear away from the firewall.


You get those replaced I am guessing since u r tuning on the car...
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Report this Post10-09-2012 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 11's list is getting crowded...

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

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Report this Post10-10-2012 12:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


You get those replaced I am guessing since u r tuning on the car...


Nope, Not yet.

I was referring to the empty bolts holes for the brake shield. The bolts that I recovered did NOT fit in the empty holes.

The original brake shield apparently was modded for the 11.25 rotor upgrade as there is some kind of shield covering the back of the rotors.

Do I need to take the ROTORS off to inspect?

NOT my PIC but these are the bolts you are talking about.

[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 10-10-2012).]

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Report this Post10-10-2012 12:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LFiero67:

Your going to need at least 2800 rpm on the foot brake to spool that. I can make 4 psi at 2400, but I have the 6262, and a smaller turbine housing. With "anti-lag" timing, big booster, booster vacuum pump and 2800 on the two step I can make about 8 psi, but that is on a 3250 converter and 11.25" brakes. You said you run street tires, so spooling on the line might not be the best idea anyway, although 13 psi hitting after launch might unload the suspension and blow the tires off as well. I think your going to have to try it at the track and see what works and what doesn't.



NOW you tell me....LOL

I could have purchased and installed when everything was out of the car and been running 10's.....

I totally missed the ball on the supporting transmission mods.

How involved is it to install a new converter?

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Report this Post10-10-2012 12:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:


You get those replaced I am guessing since u r tuning on the car...


This is the Shield I'm talking about.
I can see a bolt easily getting lodged into the space in this pic. However, I really better get it checked out and stop trippin.



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Report this Post10-10-2012 01:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes those r the bolts I am talking about..I would check to.see if those r missing before I drove the car anymore. I dont see that size of bokts just getting stuck in the area they where in. Looks like they slowly backed out and then got wedged in. If they r the bolts that hold the bearing in that means u only have one left in there..
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Report this Post10-10-2012 02:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LFiero67Click Here to Email LFiero67Send a Private Message to LFiero67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bolts that hold the backing plate on also hold the hub on. I would pull the rotors and make sure that there are 3 bolts holding each bearing on. It would be pretty hard to have another bolt fall in there.
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Report this Post10-10-2012 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LFiero67:

Bolts that hold the backing plate on also hold the hub on. I would pull the rotors and make sure that there are 3 bolts holding each bearing on. It would be pretty hard to have another bolt fall in there.


What size are those bearing bolts, if I do need to replace them? The ones I recovered are two different sizes.
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Report this Post10-10-2012 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:
How involved is it to install a new converter?


Not sure if you had this answered, but as far as I'm concerned, it's a big job. Gotta drop the cradle and pull the engine/transmission apart to replace it.
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Report this Post10-10-2012 03:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaybeeziSend a Private Message to jaybeeziEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:
The bolts that I recovered did NOT fit in the empty holes


They didn't fit because they are the wrong size, or because the threads are destroyed?
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Report this Post10-10-2012 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Stay away from bigger converters... The RPM is not going to help spool nearly as much as brakes, antilag, better fuel, fixing whatever is wrong with your tuning?... and a bigger converter will for sure make you slower and rob horsepower.
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Report this Post10-10-2012 06:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LFiero67Click Here to Email LFiero67Send a Private Message to LFiero67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Says the guy who runs 1.7 60' times lol.

------------------
10.263 @ 134.44MPH - 1.49 60'
Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36.


Old M90 XP Cam time -
11.425 @115.60
1.543 60'

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nosrac
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Report this Post10-10-2012 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:


Not sure if you had this answered, but as far as I'm concerned, it's a big job. Gotta drop the cradle and pull the engine/transmission apart to replace it.


Thx, Got Some good News and some Bad.........

Good News is that I am probably going to get a ZZP 3K stall converted installed for Free.....

Bad news is the Head gaskets DID NOT seal...(Damn Cosmetic gaskets )

I will be returning the car soon to get the head gaskets replaced. Going to use Stockers this time... (Damn Cosmetic gaskets )

So the bad news brings some good news.

You NEED a high stall Torque Converter to spool up a traditional big azz Turbo, unless you have a VG Turbo or some fancy exhaust spooling thingie.
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Report this Post10-10-2012 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds like installer error when assembling the heads. Haven't had an issue in years with mine and my engine has been through hell.
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Report this Post10-10-2012 11:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LFiero67:

Says the guy who runs 1.7 60' times lol.



If I had better brakes I could put my 3k up another 400-600rpms... If I put in a 3600 converter I would lose 5mph at the end of the track.
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Report this Post10-10-2012 11:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


Thx, Got Some good News and some Bad.........

Good News is that I am probably going to get a ZZP 3K stall converted installed for Free.....

Bad news is the Head gaskets DID NOT seal...(Damn Cosmetic gaskets )

I will be returning the car soon to get the head gaskets replaced. Going to use Stockers this time... (Damn Cosmetic gaskets )

So the bad news brings some good news.

You NEED a high stall Torque Converter to spool up a traditional big azz Turbo, unless you have a VG Turbo or some fancy exhaust spooling thingie.


Maybe you want to have a look at this:
http://www.suprastore.com/spquspva.html

Also, what is it with these 3800's and leaky headgaskets? Sorry to hear it bro! Are you running ARP head studs as well? If so what was your final TQ spec? Dumbass aka Dean set mine to 85. I'd have to look thru my texts to verify.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-11-2012).]

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Report this Post10-11-2012 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Spool valves are snake oil in my opinion... Just an added complication/danger and I have never known a legitimate race shop to ever run one of them. They really do not make any sense as to why they would even work.

A shop that I hang around tried using one on a supra and it just reduced peak power with no 'spool' increase.

 
quote
what is it with these 3800's and leaky headgaskets?


User error... Mine work fine.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-11-2012).]

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BV MotorSports
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Report this Post10-11-2012 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I dont know anything about the QSV. Looks neat and from the Supra guys I have spoken with, they all agree it is legit.

What HG's are you running and what TQ spec?
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Report this Post10-11-2012 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


User error... Mine work fine.



Keep in mind that we had your heads flycut for the MLS gaskets and we also massaged the block a bit.


I tq'd my composite gaskets to 95 ft lb in 3 steps.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 10-11-2012).]

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yellow fever
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Report this Post10-11-2012 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellow feverClick Here to Email yellow feverSend a Private Message to yellow feverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a question for nosrac or whoever else has some input. On your upper intake do you have all the pcv parts inside there or do you have just the filter on top. And the hose coming off the factory pcv spot are you using this for your fuel pressure regulator. I'm running the same intake intake. I'm running into the problem of oil blowing out of the back valve cover.so I want to try your setup. If you could give me little info your pvc and vacuum hose routing that would be great.
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Report this Post10-11-2012 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by yellow fever:

I have a question for nosrac or whoever else has some input. On your upper intake do you have all the pcv parts inside there or do you have just the filter on top. And the hose coming off the factory pcv spot are you using this for your fuel pressure regulator. I'm running the same intake intake. I'm running into the problem of oil blowing out of the back valve cover.so I want to try your setup. If you could give me little info your pvc and vacuum hose routing that would be great.


I have filter on top and in valve cover. The hose off original MAP port goes to MAP and FPR.

The original brake booster port is going to brake booster and the evap port next to throttle body has been tapped for the BOV.
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Report this Post10-11-2012 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellow feverClick Here to Email yellow feverSend a Private Message to yellow feverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the info. Im gonna assume you dont have a pcv valve in there or that tube. It has been awhile since I worked on my car, but if I remember right there is two little holes in spot where the pcv valve sits. Did you leave both of those open. Thanks again for info. Awesome looking engine and install.
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Report this Post10-11-2012 06:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No PVC ports. They were blocked.

 
quote
Originally posted by yellow fever:

Thanks for the info. Im gonna assume you dont have a pcv valve in there or that tube. It has been awhile since I worked on my car, but if I remember right there is two little holes in spot where the pcv valve sits. Did you leave both of those open. Thanks again for info. Awesome looking engine and install.


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Report this Post10-11-2012 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LFiero67Click Here to Email LFiero67Send a Private Message to LFiero67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I run a PCV valve, and a breather on the valve cover. Port on top of intake is plugged. I'm running a 2 bar map sensor that fits in the stock L36/L26 location. Below the PCV valve I put a transmission check ball, it moves and allows PCV to evacuate the crank case under vacuum, but any boost that leaks through the PCV is blocked by the steel ball when it drops back onto the PCV port in the lower intake. Seems to work well, no condensation in oil and no oil from breather under boost.

------------------
10.263 @ 134.44MPH - 1.49 60'
Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36.


Old M90 XP Cam time -
11.425 @115.60
1.543 60'

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Report this Post10-11-2012 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I still use the factory pcv valve but get the fresh air draw from the valve cover. I've boost leak checked it several times. All seems good and no moisture build up anywhere.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

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Report this Post10-11-2012 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LFiero67Click Here to Email LFiero67Send a Private Message to LFiero67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I could blow slightly through the couple of PCV valves I had, including a new AC Delco. That's why I put the check ball in.

------------------
10.263 @ 134.44MPH - 1.49 60'
Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36.


Old M90 XP Cam time -
11.425 @115.60
1.543 60'

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Report this Post10-11-2012 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellow feverClick Here to Email yellow feverSend a Private Message to yellow feverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey thanks alot guys for all the info. I should have asked back in June. I would have had a chance to take it to the drag strip then. Whats everybody using for a fuel pump. I have a walbro and getting on it just for a few seconds, it doesnt do very good. One guy told me to try a adjustable fuel pressure regulator, anybody using one.Sorry to ask questions in your thread nosrac, but it is a really good thread with some very helpful people following it.
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Report this Post10-11-2012 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LFiero67Click Here to Email LFiero67Send a Private Message to LFiero67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm using aeromotive stealth 340, but have heard good things about the deatschwerx pump. My walbro barely kept up with my supercharged setup, no way it will feed a decent turbo setup.

------------------
10.263 @ 134.44MPH - 1.49 60'
Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 130lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, ARP Rod bolts, otherwise stock L36.


Old M90 XP Cam time -
11.425 @115.60
1.543 60'

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nosrac
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Report this Post10-11-2012 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by yellow fever:

Hey thanks alot guys for all the info. I should have asked back in June. I would have had a chance to take it to the drag strip then. Whats everybody using for a fuel pump. I have a walbro and getting on it just for a few seconds, it doesnt do very good. One guy told me to try a adjustable fuel pressure regulator, anybody using one.Sorry to ask quesions in your thread nosrac, but it is a really good thread with some very helpful people following it.



Did you do a fuel pump rewire? The pumps work a hell of a lot better with the added voltage.

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Report this Post10-11-2012 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am running the Aeromotive 300. Great pump, I cant even hear it running. One thing I did notice is that If I drive the car for any distance, the brake pedal will go to the floor. You guys running a decent cam have the same problem? I have the ST2 ZZP cam.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-11-2012).]

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Report this Post10-11-2012 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:

I am running the Aeromotive 300. Great pump, I cant even hear it running. One thing I did notice is that If I drive the car for any distance, the brake pedal will go to the floor. You guys running a decent cam have the same problem? I have the ST2 ZZP cam.



That makes zero sense. Lack of vacuum will create a hard pedal.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

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Report this Post10-11-2012 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:

I am running the Aeromotive 300. Great pump, I cant even hear it running. One thing I did notice is that If I drive the car for any distance, the brake pedal will go to the floor. You guys running a decent cam have the same problem? I have the ST2 ZZP cam.



I really haven't driven mine much with all the issues
but great vacuum and brakes especially after redoing my lines with
actual vac lines instead of fuel lines.
BTW I have ST3 cam...to tune it you just have to raise the idle

[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 10-11-2012).]

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Report this Post10-19-2012 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Betcha I get this BIOTCH to spool up now, all while keeping the trans cool to boot. (ZZP 245mm 3k stall & Trans pan cooler)

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post10-19-2012 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Idk about that helping much .. the converter is a very small part of spooling.
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nosrac
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Report this Post10-19-2012 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Idk about that helping much .. the converter is a very small part of spooling.


Well spool may be the wrong word but rather "boost threshold rpm" is what the converter will do for me that I can't do now.

2400 rpm is when I got ~1lbs and I guess I should be ~3lbs - 5lbs around 3K rpm maybe much more.

Once I got to 3lbs boost then it started to build very rapidly.

I'm trying to launch with a 1.7 60' and I THINK ~4lbs is what should do it.
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