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Mattwa's 4.9/4T60E swap. by mattwa
Started on: 04-15-2011 11:35 PM
Replies: 476 (14223 views)
Last post by: mattwa on 07-28-2013 01:26 PM
mattwa
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Report this Post03-06-2012 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We weren't really planning on it, as we are going to Carlisle in June as always, but I'll see how the Fiero situation and college schedule work out.

Page 11 ownage! Wow, page 11. Crazy.

I kinda miss the 15's. Sometimes I wish I didn't scrap them. But either way I miss the 255's the most. Not sure what I'm going to do for rims, but I really don't want to keep the 14's on for long term.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-06-2012).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post03-16-2012 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update! I spent several hours today replacing my strut adapter plates with ones pre-made from the former HT Motorsports. Turns out the position of the strut was off compared what this bracket was, and I found out my plates have been "moving" on me, you can see in this comparison picture that the strut hole and the bolt hole next to it are all elongated. The struts seemed ok. They now have 2 bushings to allow for the angle change. After it was all done, I drove it down a few driveways and back. I'm not sure what really happened, they seemed to move again, but they haven't "changed" like they did before, or at least not as much. Whatever the outcome, the plates are ALOT better then the crap I had in there. Now the next thing I will do is get an alignment and see how that goes.



I also need to replace the thermostat and o-ring back to the one I had in there before, it's newer, and the current one is leaking.

3/17- I fixed the coolant leak today.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-17-2012).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post03-20-2012 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I drove goldie for the first time in 4 months on this beautiful evening. Great drive.

Tomorrow she is getting the alignment she needs. And an oil leak fixed.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-03-2012).]

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Report this Post03-20-2012 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Congrats.
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Report this Post03-21-2012 12:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OoskySend a Private Message to OoskyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

I drove goldie for the first time in 4 months on this beautiful evening..what a blast! Short but very fun ride...Goldie n' I are tearing up the town! You should have seen the look on some peoples faces, because Goldie is so loud, "WTF is that!?!" Or with some car guys, "How can that little car make that sound?! LOL.

Tomorrow she is getting the alignment she needs. And an oil leak fixed.



awwww and I thought that message was typed just for me ... LOL yay go Goldie!!
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Report this Post03-21-2012 12:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Oosky:


awwww and I thought that message was typed just for me ... LOL yay go Goldie!!


It was...till I copied it here.
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Report this Post03-21-2012 07:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I read your PM.
I understand completely. It's a hell of a rush.
I've been driving mine to work all week. Uses much less gas, and is lots more fun, than the Silverado.
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Report this Post03-21-2012 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did realize how "slow" acceleration wise this car is after the short drive in the 3800/F23. It's not slow by any means, but it's that 2.73 gearing that's doing it...oh well, 1700 RPM@70MPH is nice.

Goldie is currently at the alignment shop, she made it there and I'm hoping things go well.
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Report this Post03-21-2012 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OoskySend a Private Message to OoskyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:


It was...till I copied it here.


oh ok :P
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mattwa
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Report this Post03-21-2012 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got Goldie from the alignment shop! I went to White Wheel for the first time, and it was a great experience with great people. Pricey compared to my previous experiences but 100% worth it. They really knew what they were doing, and they have been there since the 1940s.

As for Goldie, she drives like a dream now! She has never been this good since I put the 88 cradle in, in July. Makes the whole ordeal finally worth it. It's just...awesome. VERY solid, no swaying, no un-stable feelings, just solidly planted. I love it. Now it feels like it should with what I built, with the amount of work I put into having the 88 rear suspension with rear sway bar and all poly bushings, 300lb coil-overs, and fiero-store 1" front sway bar.

Goldie's brakes are a different story. I had to make almost a panic stop while going down a bridge on the way back, and the front tires locked up, and I wasn't stopping as fast as I should have. I KNEW I had too much front brake bias, it's happened before since my 88 cradle swap. Now the question is what to do about it....

After I got home, I took some pictures and a video. I'm stuck with the 14's for now, but I'm hoping for Alex's 16's this summer. They look so TINY! I also took a picture of my new strut plate adapters installed..what you can see anyway. Please excuse the rust. The engine is pretty dirty, actually the whole car is filthy from sitting outside all winter under a cover. Car wash soon! But this evening my mom was nice enough to clean the trunk, interior, and front compartment out for me. Tomorrow or Friday I plan to fix that oil leak.





You can tell in this video that it's running at warm idle, which sounds noticeably different from the cold idle it was running at in the first video I took earlier this month. It also revs better. Never knew why, still don't. It's also noticeably louder when cold too. I should do a driving video some time. Not for really the performance but the sound. I guess the best way to describe it is that it "fills" the street with V8 sound when I get on it. Also, when I say "it's working", I meant the suspension.




Edit: Holy crap, I just saw this. In my first picture, you can see the rear view mirror reflecting the street behind me. Wow, that's so cool, because it's so..clear! Never seen that before. It's my auto-dimming mirror with compass.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-31-2013).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post03-22-2012 10:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad you got your suspension issue resolved, nothing less fun than a 4.9 Fiero that ya can't drive!

Some input on a couple of your comments..........

Front Suspension........

Find another front crossmember, disassemble, clean, paint rebuild and reinstall. Pay particular attention to the top plates that attach the Xmember to the spaceframe. Don't swap in an 88, it's a lot of work fo not a lot of gain.

Brakes......

I'm getting ready to swap an 88 cradle into the back of my 86 SE (with a 4.9 and a manual trans). As I already have the GrandAm brakes all around, I am looking at going with larger diameter rotors and making brackets to adapt the GA calipers to the uprights. I need to check the maximum rotor thickness that the GA calipers will accept before I finalize my plan. Since I need adapters anyway for the larger diameter rotors, if I need to go with different calipers its not a big deal. 88 all around, maybe?

Rust..........

Rust never sleeps, better be getting on it before too long. I've got a lot of repairs ahead of me on my 86 in the rear of the cradle, maybe i'll use the 88 strut towers I have sitting here.

Lookin' good!

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Report this Post03-22-2012 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tstang429Click Here to Email Tstang429Send a Private Message to Tstang429Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Matt glad they did a great job for you. Came HIGHLY recommended. We had called said its a fiero and they said no problem I remember when they came out.
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Report this Post03-22-2012 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea, finding another front 85-87 suspension is a good place to start in that respect. What about those top plates? Mine look really bad. I also bought new LCA bolts because they look so bad, I bet I would have the worst time getting them out.

About the brakes, I was considering what fieroguru suggested, which was adapt the front pre-88 spindle to accept an 88 caliper...bmwguru offers this bracket already, but it's meant for the corvette rotors. Which in itself isn't a bad thing, in fact that is what I would do if I wasn't totally broke.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-29-2012).]

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Report this Post03-23-2012 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is probably not as bad as it looks. The steel that is used on the suspension crossmember and control arms is hard and dense (drill a hole in it if you don't believe me!) and it will not rust as severely as the spaceframe steel. The upper mounting plate, however, catches dirt and holds moisture.

If you could junkyard a front crossmember and control arms, find the springs you want to run, it would be great to get everything abrasive blasted, repainted and reassembled. Drop your old cradle, transfer the sway bar, steering rack, damper, rods, and uprights to the newly rebuilt unit and reinstall. The car would only be down for a day.

Is the bracket for the 12" or 13" rotors? MadMark has the 12" brackets for the 88 already drawn up, that would make the brake solution for the rear very straight-forward - 12" Corvette rotor, adapter bracket, and the 88 caliper - with 88 calipers in front, and the same size rotors all around, the brakes should be very good and well balanced using the 88 master cylinder.

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Report this Post03-23-2012 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidnightClick Here to Email MidnightSend a Private Message to MidnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks good Matt-

I need to head over and check this out again. Last time I saw it there was no interior in it. lol
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Report this Post03-23-2012 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Goldie got new rims today!! Goldie got new(er) rims!

Yea, the top plates are pretty bad looking. But I plan to get a whole nother front suspension as suggested.


As for the brake upgrade, I was planning on getting this kit for the front only, and get the simple brackets for the 88 rear, and switch the stock master. This the plan, will it actually happen due to $$$, who knows.

Midnight, wow that was a LONG time ago (for me). That was when I was installed the 4-speed manual next to my 3.4...all that stuff is long gone. If you stop over, you'll see the three fiero's in the driveway. Lol.

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Report this Post03-24-2012 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SuperchargedV6Click Here to Email SuperchargedV6Send a Private Message to SuperchargedV6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have these super nice Enkei rims in 16" but the front is scuffed and the rear needs a bit more work from a curb hit. I bought these for my first Supercharged car and was cut off in the rain and slid into the curb. I had 50 miles on them and cried almost because they were discontinued. I think they were Type 134 with Gold inset. A good rim shop could fix them if you are interested in them?? Let me know and you can come pick them up as I know you would make use of them. Rick B

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Report this Post03-24-2012 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SuperchargedV6Click Here to Email SuperchargedV6Send a Private Message to SuperchargedV6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

SuperchargedV6

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Did forget to say two of the rims are flawless and other than the curb hits the others are mint condition since I only had 50 miles on the set. I have them all in the original boxes also. Rick
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mattwa
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Report this Post03-24-2012 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Rick, thanks for the generous offer but I'll pass, those aren't really the style I would be looking for.
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mattwa
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Report this Post03-29-2012 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Goldie's front brake upgrade is going to start soon. She is getting corvette rotors and 88 calipers in the front, and is going back to regular sized Fiero master cylinder. I should be getting at least the rotors tomorrow.

Tstang also stopped by and gave me a few things, two of which was two junk rear hubs. I took them all apart tonight, and I'm going to use one as a drilling template for the Corvette rotors.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
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Report this Post03-29-2012 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tstang429Click Here to Email Tstang429Send a Private Message to Tstang429Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Matt you gonna need a factory master? Theres one sitting on my shelf lol.
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Report this Post03-29-2012 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, I was going to use my dad's master, because he needs my larger Blazer master. Basically switch them.
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mattwa
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Report this Post03-30-2012 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got my Corvette rotors (front only for now) in the mail today. HOLY CRAP these are big rotors. It's one of those things where I have seen them many times on this forum, on Rockauto, etc, but it looks so much bigger in person. I also can know feel the weight of these un-drilled rotors. Lol. Sad news is, I'm 90% sure I can't use my drill press, it's too small for the rotor. I just set the hub on there for a picture comparison, I don't have my rings yet.


[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-30-2012).]

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Report this Post04-02-2012 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidnightClick Here to Email MidnightSend a Private Message to MidnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lets see it installed slacker!
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Report this Post04-02-2012 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I haven't installed them yet. I don't have my adapter kit in the mail yet, however I did get two front 88 calipers in the mail today. One had a stuck slider and torn boot so I fixed both and all is good.
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Report this Post04-02-2012 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VikingRedBaronClick Here to Email VikingRedBaronSend a Private Message to VikingRedBaronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

I haven't installed them yet. I don't have my adapter kit in the mail yet, however I did get two front 88 calipers in the mail today. One had a stuck slider and torn boot so I fixed both and all is good.


Interesting comment Matt.

Will the 88 caliper bolt onto the pre 88 steering knuckle?
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Report this Post04-02-2012 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by VikingRedBaron:


Interesting comment Matt.

Will the 88 caliper bolt onto the pre 88 steering knuckle?


Technically, if you remove that large odd shaped bracket that the front 84-87 caliper bolts too, the 88 caliper will bolt on. But it would be in an absolutely useless spot. So that's why you would need to buy bmwguru's adapter kit so you can use 88 calipers on a pre-88 front suspension, with 12" Corvette rotors. Which is exactly what I'm doing.

Two reasons it's in a useless spot. #1, the 84-87 spindle/wheel bearing is much longer then the 88 wheel bearings are, so the caliper mounting point would need to be extended (which the bracket does). #2, The 84-87 mounting holes are in towards the center of the spindle more then the 88 holes, so it would need to be extended in that direction as well. This is also done by the brackets, but in this case it's out far enough to use Corvette rotors.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-02-2012).]

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Report this Post04-07-2012 03:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got bmwguru's front brake adapter kit in the mail today, and was able to drill both rotors with the rings I got.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-08-2012).]

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Report this Post04-23-2012 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had an interview for my first "real" job today (steak n shake does not count) with a Global manufacturing/fabrication company. And it went well. However, I had Fiero issues there as well. The person that was interviewing me was the same person I met at the Career Fair I went to at my college, and definitely had an interest in me and Goldie (my Fiero). After the interview was over, I showed him Goldie in the parking lot! Now, either I revved it too hard, or it happened earlier, but while showing my car off, I noticed something was very wrong with the belt. Shutting the car off and on closer inspection, the belt had jumped, and was now riding on the outer edge of the pulleys in the middle of the belt!! It must have happened very recently because the belt was not harmed. Luckily I have my mini tool kit with me, so I fixed it. Belt Tension is a bit too loose, I can see the belt move a good bit on a idler if I rev it hard and quick, so I just need to be more careful for now. A slightly shorter belt would be preferred.

Kinda embarrassing and a plus for me at the same time, the car I built broke (kinda) but I fixed it myself with a simple adjustable wrench.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-23-2012).]

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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post04-23-2012 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Congrats on the interview. I remember having similar issues with the belt on my old 4.9 swap until I got the correct length belt. A shorter belt like you said should fix your problem.

------------------

88 Coupe: 2.0L Turbo 4 Cylinder
84 Indy #64: Restoration Project!

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Report this Post04-23-2012 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks! After thinking it over, a shorter belt would help it, but I don't think it would fix it completely. You see, I replaced the idler pulley under my alternator with a new one when I put my 4.9 in. They are both smooth, but the old one had "lips" on both edges of the pulley to help keep the belt from doing exactly what it did to me, climb over the edge and possibly fly off. So I'm not sure what to do exactly, both I guess.
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Report this Post04-24-2012 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After a LONG time messing around with belts and idlers at Autozone today, I finally got a decent fix. I found a slightly larger plastic smooth pulley with lips on the ends...works good so far. I could use a belt that is 1/2" shorter, but I said screw it, I'll do it when the time comes.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-24-2012).]

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Report this Post04-24-2012 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VikingRedBaronClick Here to Email VikingRedBaronSend a Private Message to VikingRedBaronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found a sweet metal 3 1/2 pulley with "Lips" on it that would work nice too.
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Report this Post04-27-2012 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I went to pull-a-part today, and got myself some front rotors/hubs to cut up. I cut the rotors off with my grinders, pounded out the studs, and cranked down installing the new ones with a lug nut and a few washers (my neck and hand is killing me right now). Looks pretty good!


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Report this Post05-02-2012 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got my 88 master cylinder in the mall today, so I have everything that I need (that I know of) for my brake upgrade. However, today while advancing the timing I saw that the vacuum line to the booster was split! So that lead into taking the TB off, and that lead to deleting the EGR. SO...notice anything different?


My brake are slightly better then they were because of that line, but still doing the upgrade anyway.
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Capt Fiero
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Report this Post05-02-2012 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yep steel plate where EGR pod used to be. I have to say your engine is so much cleaner than mine. I am jealous. I removed the EGR pod before install just trying to remove some of the extra lines and such on the 4.9.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

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mattwa
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Report this Post05-02-2012 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Capt Fiero:

Yep steel plate where EGR pod used to be. I have to say your engine is so much cleaner than mine. I am jealous. I removed the EGR pod before install just trying to remove some of the extra lines and such on the 4.9.



Thanks! Truth be told it's kinda messy to me, there is a lot of things I could re-route or delete If I dropped it again. BTW, did your 4.9 die or is it still OK?

Edit: Decided not to go manual at this time.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-04-2012).]

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Capt Fiero
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Report this Post05-02-2012 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have not had a chance to tear down the side cover on the 4.9 to know for sure. I was going to do it last weekend, but my air compressor blew a fitting between the regulator and the pressure cut off switch, which took me a day to find a replacement. Now I am stuck working on the family Blazer. After the Blazer is done we have to take a trip down to Oregon to deal with the last of the legal papers for my fathers estate which may take a week or 2 in Oregon.

I am going to try and find some time in between it all to work on the 4.9 and find out what the deal is. I have fired it up a couple times to move it around and the oil is still clean. So I am honestly hoping that it is just the seal between the timing cover/ water pump and block.

As for the power, I have driven and rode in other 4.9's with the Auto and found it to be nearly gutless compared to my 5spd 4.9 there is just something about grabbing gears in a V8 that makes me almost giddy. As for miles per gallon, even with the 3.61 5spd I still get close to 30mpg. I would hope that with a 2.73 auto you should be able to get into the mid 30's on the highway.

The only real difference between mine and yours is mine is the later 4.9 with the dual O2 sensors and slightly different computer. I also have the "Fast Chips" programing in the prom chip vs the stock Caddy program. To use the Fast Chips programing you needed to have a 93 Dual O2 motor with the 93 ECM.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

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84se2m4
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Report this Post05-02-2012 10:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84se2m4Click Here to Email 84se2m4Send a Private Message to 84se2m4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I didnt know you could cut the hats from the rotors so easily. I figured you would have needed a lathe. Will this work for the grandam front brake swap as well?
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Report this Post05-02-2012 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well most all my driving is/has been pure city, so I get an average of 17MPG. Pure highway, the highest I have seen was 30MPG. Sucks, because even with the 3.33 ratio they still get the same or better mileage. I run like 1500RPM@70MPH. I think it's the case where the gearing is so high that it has to work harder to do the same speed, so it actually reduces MPG.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-31-2013).]

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