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Mattwa's 4.9/4T60E swap. by mattwa
Started on: 04-15-2011 11:35 PM
Replies: 476 (14278 views)
Last post by: mattwa on 07-28-2013 01:26 PM
Raydar
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Report this Post07-04-2011 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Was it green grease?
AFAIK, all of the grease they use in GM CV axles is green.
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Raydar
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Report this Post07-04-2011 11:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Raydar

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quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Was it green grease?
AFAIK, all of the grease they use in GM CV axles is green.


Edit - Holy kwrap. Two page ownages in a row? Never did that before.

2nd Edit - Of course I hit quote instead of edit.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-04-2011).]

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Report this Post07-04-2011 11:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No it was black grease. However that axle I bought from Rockauto, so who knows.
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Report this Post07-05-2011 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well today I dropped off all 380lbs of scrap I had to the metal recyclers. After that, I bleed my brakes, installed the passenger rear inner fender well, and installed my Fire Extinguisher in the front compartment. Took it for another test drive. It goes down the road well, corners well, accelerates and shifts better because the engine doesn't move now,...but it doesn't stop much at all. The brakes still SUCK! And I should do something with that axle before my 1800 mile trip to Frazee. I posted on the thread asking if I could put front 88 calipers on the rear because I don't have an E-brake, because that's what I did, and it isn't working. The pedal is still very soft and goes down alot. I did bleed the crap out of them just before, but after my trip, the rear rotors are still somewhat rusty!

Pics of coilover's since I didn't yesterday, and of the fire extinguisher install.


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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-05-2011 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Well today I dropped off all 380lbs of scrap I had to the metal recyclers. After that, I bleed my brakes, installed the passenger rear inner fender well, and installed my Fire Extinguisher in the front compartment. Took it for another test drive. It goes down the road well, corners well, accelerates and shifts better because the engine doesn't move now,...but it doesn't stop much at all. The brakes still SUCK! And I should do something with that axle before my 1800 mile trip to Frazee. I posted on the thread asking if I could put front 88 calipers on the rear because I don't have an E-brake, because that's what I did, and it isn't working. The pedal is still very soft and goes down alot. I did bleed the crap out of them just before, but after my trip, the rear rotors are still somewhat rust


Matt. I would like to recommend that you install speed bleeders on your calipers. Screw them in loose then on each caliper (one at a time) back them out about 1/2 turn. Then pump your pedal 4 or 5 times. Then close, refill Master cylinder and try the other side. Fieros are one of the few cars that won't take my power bleeder. No matter how hard you try you just can't get a seal for the pressure pump on that plastic reservoir. Speed bleeders and the old fashioned suction bleeders are the only things that I find that work.
BTW, any reason for the front battery mounting?

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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All I can say is on my Formula until I adjusted the rear brakes and the cable going across the cradle for it.. My brakes were terrible. After I did that it became like brand new.
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Report this Post07-05-2011 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by N3M3S1S:

All I can say is on my Formula until I adjusted the rear brakes and the cable going across the cradle for it.. My brakes were terrible. After I did that it became like brand new.



The best way to adjust the rear brakes on a Fiero is to use the ebrake often. Each time you use it, it tightens the pads against the caliper and gets the slack out. However, Matt isn't using the std Fiero rear calipers and has no ebrake.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post07-05-2011 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:


Matt. I would like to recommend that you install speed bleeders on your calipers. Screw them in loose then on each caliper (one at a time) back them out about 1/2 turn. Then pump your pedal 4 or 5 times. Then close, refill Master cylinder and try the other side. Fieros are one of the few cars that won't take my power bleeder. No matter how hard you try you just can't get a seal for the pressure pump on that plastic reservoir. Speed bleeders and the old fashioned suction bleeders are the only things that I find that work.
BTW, any reason for the front battery mounting?



I used a Mity Vac Vaccum hand pump to bleed my brakes, and it works great with my Grand Am brakes. So I think they are bleed pretty well.

I moved the battery up front for the coilpack when I had my 3.4 V6 with DIS. Now that spot is empty with the 4.9, but I could put something there someday, like a oil cooler or intercooler.
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Report this Post07-05-2011 07:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The swap looks good! I would try bleeding the brakes again. Sounds like there could be an air bubble trapped in the lines somewhere.
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Hulki U. My-BFF
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Report this Post07-05-2011 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFClick Here to Email Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Matt, If I'm not mistaken, you've replaced your brakes on the car with the '88 calipers, correct? Did you change over to an '88 master cylinder at that time as well? You cannot use a pre-88 master cylinder with the '88 calipers as the pre-88 master cylinders were larger bore therefore will not be as effective on the '88 brakes.
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Report this Post07-05-2011 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:

Matt, If I'm not mistaken, you've replaced your brakes on the car with the '88 calipers, correct? Did you change over to an '88 master cylinder at that time as well? You cannot use a pre-88 master cylinder with the '88 calipers as the pre-88 master cylinders were larger bore therefore will not be as effective on the '88 brakes.


Just the rear, yes. I have a larger bore master cylinder from a chevy blazer, for the Grand Am brake upgrade. But I could have swore the 88 master cylinder was bigger to move more fluid for the larger pistons in the 88 calipers.

EDIT: I just looked it up on several different sites, the bore size on both pre-88 and 88 brake master cylinders is exactly the same, what that means is I have a bigger MC then either of them, so it should create less pedal travel, which it certainly is not the case here.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-05-2011).]

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Report this Post07-05-2011 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 02greens10Click Here to Email 02greens10Send a Private Message to 02greens10Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You got an air leak, try retightening all connections that you took apart. Special attention to the banjo bolt on the caliper, it needs to be very clean and flat for the copper washers to work.

I can sometimes spot a leak if i use brake cleaner on all the connections to dry them up and to remove all brake fluid residue, and then vacuum and then pump the brakes it will get wet just a tad where it leaks.
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Report this Post07-05-2011 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I believe The Ogre had some info on the Blazer MC. Don't remember exactly what he said, but anything he says is worth at least a look.
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According to Ogre, the bore sizes are different from 88 to pre-88's.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/A...040710-2-046068.html

Many others on here also agree. Where did you find specs on both, just to satisfy my curious mind?
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Report this Post07-05-2011 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I trust NAPA on having the correct parts for the correct years, the pictures were just like the thread you pointed too, different looking MC's. However, NAPA specs said the 86 MC had a 1" bore, and the 88 MC had a 24mm bore, which is pretty much the same thing. Rockauto said the exact same thing, they said both were 24mm bores.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-05-2011).]

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Hulki U. My-BFF
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24mm is a full 1.4mm smaller bore than the 84-87s. Even though it does not sound like much, that's a pretty sizable difference when talking hydraulics.
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Report this Post07-05-2011 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:

24mm is a full 1.4mm smaller bore than the 84-87s. Even though it does not sound like much, that's a pretty sizable difference when talking hydraulics.


Ok, your right. But still, I have a 28mm bore MC, so it should require less travel but require more effort. In my case right now, it has way too much travel and alot of force, the rear brakes aren't really working, so it's either air in the line still (ugh), or something is wrong with the rear calipers.
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Report this Post07-05-2011 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFClick Here to Email Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:


Ok, your right.


That's all you had to say.

Just kidding!!! I have not had much luck with my mighty vac on my brakes, the tried and true pump, hold, bleed, close method works well for me. Don't forget to start at the driver's side rear to start your bleeding, as it's the farthest point in the brake lines.
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Report this Post07-06-2011 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, today's update. I checked for warping on the rotors and there is none. I also bleed the brakes again with my dad the two man simple method, and I did get some air out. I took it out for another test drive, and while they are slightly improved from yesterday, they still aren't very good. They stop the car, but it's like a worn out pre-88 system. The front's are doing most of the braking, since they are shiny and the rear are still rusted on the surface, plus it "plows" a bit more then usual when braking. So I don't think something is wrong with the actual parts, I think the brake balance is off with a larger MC and larger pistons in the front and smaller in the back. So the Master Cylinder and/or the The Combination Valve is the issue here.
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Report this Post07-06-2011 10:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-09-2011).]

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Report this Post07-07-2011 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JamesCurtisClick Here to Email JamesCurtisSend a Private Message to JamesCurtisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My bad - misread the post. I see you have stainless, have you triple checked all of the connections?

------------------

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 07-07-2011).]

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Report this Post07-07-2011 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Brakes still suck. However I have been driving it around daily and besides the brakes (yea yea I know) it does great. Yes I checked all connections.

Also got my Fiero weighed today! //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/086249.html

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-07-2011).]

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Report this Post07-07-2011 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are the caliper slides free? Do the pistons in the calipers move? Are the pads a really cheap brand? I had some cheap Autozone brake pads on my 88 and it did not stop good. Took tons of effort on the pedal and the brakes never locked up. I replaced the rotors and the pads with Porterfield performance brake pads last summer and it made a huge difference. The car stops on a dime now and I can get the brakes to lock up.

------------------

88 Coupe: Boosted 4 cylinder coming soon!
65 Chevrolet Corvair: 110 4 speed project car

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Report this Post07-07-2011 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMaster88:

Are the caliper slides free? Do the pistons in the calipers move? Are the pads a really cheap brand? I had some cheap Autozone brake pads on my 88 and it did not stop good. Took tons of effort on the pedal and the brakes never locked up. I replaced the rotors and the pads with Porterfield performance brake pads last summer and it made a huge difference. The car stops on a dime now and I can get the brakes to lock up.


Yea I thought about slapping on new pads since they look worn anyway. I greased the sliders before I installed the calipers, and I'm yes the pistons move.
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Report this Post07-08-2011 01:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tstang429Click Here to Email Tstang429Send a Private Message to Tstang429Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
can u manualy actuate the parking brake at each wheel? do that then see if it stops better. I know alot of rear disk brakes can not set them selves with out using the parking brake.
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Report this Post07-08-2011 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How is your ebrake adjustment? If its out the rear brakes will not work as they should. I assume its off as you said the rear brakes don't really work.

Did you get a solid stream of fluid when you were bleeding them? If you have an air compressor Harbor freight sells a pneumatic brake bleeder for around $25. It works very well and comes with a second bottle you stick in the master to auto fill while you bleed.

Keep playing with them, you'll get it.
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Report this Post07-08-2011 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have no parking brake, and these are front calipers on the rear.
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Report this Post07-09-2011 12:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm going to change the pads on the rear this weekend hopefully, and see if that does anything, which it should, because looking further into it, it looks like the pads have previously worn unevenly, which is most likely causing my brake problem.
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Report this Post07-10-2011 06:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well one step forward, and two backward. Replaced the rear pads today with another nearly new set of pads we had, and it did improve the braking some-what, but it's the most we can do, I think I'm just used to the Grand Am brakes on all four corners. I looked at the 88 calipers/pads next to the Grand Am calipers/pads, and the Grand Am ones have a much larger piston, and much larger pads.

Bad news is, the fuel pump has started to resonate really bad while priming. When it's running you can't really hear it, It made a few weird noises infrequently during our trip to Carlisle with it, but something came loose for sure today, and I'm pretty sure it's these terrible roads here that did most of it. So before our trip to Frazee I really should drop the tank and see what's up. Maybe I can fix the non-working gas gauge too while I'm at it.
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Hulki U. My-BFF
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Report this Post07-11-2011 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFClick Here to Email Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yep, I heard this as well. It sounded as if the body of the FP was resting directly against the tube, and without the rubber sleeve around it. Drop that tank, and see what's going on.
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Report this Post07-11-2011 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DementiaClick Here to Email DementiaSend a Private Message to DementiaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Matt I'll share a stupid story with you at my expense. I have an 88 that I put calipers on, front bleed great n the back so so. Did it over and over and still the same. This was all on jack stands. Well let iit down, my son in put it in reverse and it wouldn't stop n just barey touch the wall. Here all that was wrong was e brake adjustment. I dont use an e brake cable but you still have to have The bracket on the back of the caliper or the caliper won't adjust up. Put the rotor on leave the bracket off, tighten down the adjuster and put the bracket on to where it almost cannot move. You should notice right away in the pressure that it bleeds

[This message has been edited by Dementia (edited 07-11-2011).]

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Report this Post07-11-2011 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dementia:

Hey Matt I'll share a stupid story with you at my expense. I have an 88 that I put calipers on, front bleed great n the back so so. Did it over and over and still the same. This was all on jack stands. Well let iit down, my son in put it in reverse and it wouldn't stop n just barey touch the wall. Here all that was wrong was e brake adjustment. I dont use an e brake cable but you still have to have The bracket on the back of the caliper or the caliper won't adjust up. Put the rotor on leave the bracket off, tighten down the adjuster and put the bracket on to where it almost cannot move. You should notice right away in the pressure that it bleeds



 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

I have no parking brake, and these are front calipers on the rear.

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Report this Post07-12-2011 08:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DementiaClick Here to Email DementiaSend a Private Message to DementiaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ah missed that part. I'd start checking the proportion valve.
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Report this Post07-12-2011 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Today's experience.
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/086302.html

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-12-2011).]

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Report this Post07-15-2011 07:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The rear rotors are now wearing evenly, so I call my brakes fixed. Yesterday I installed the trunk light delete plate I had laying around because I now have LED strip lighting on the decklid. Also finally installed the plastic trunk liner retainers that have been missing since who knows when. Going to get an alignment someplace soon, along with the front wheels balanced, at a place called Parma Tire? Or at least that's the plan. Otherwise the car is doing pretty good, starting to prepare for the Frazee trip in two weeks. Like i said the above link, my fuel pump has stopped making any noise, and is perfectly normal now. Really odd.

Also took updated shot of my Interior with speed-hut gauges

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-15-2011).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post07-16-2011 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Busy day today. I installed the new passenger side dew wipe, and lubed the door lock on that side, so it now only takes one push of the button to lock AND unlock both doors!

After that, my mom and I painted both mirrors, both sail panels (the frames), both hood vents, and all the body molding on the driver's side. Makes a noticeable difference, and looks really nice! Only issue is the driver's side sail panel frame turned out very bad. We painted over it twice before it dried and it really screwed it up. So I'm sanding it down and re-doing it. Plan on doing that and the passenger side body trim tomorrow.



[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-19-2011).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post07-19-2011 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Today I painted the rest of my body trim and lower ground effects with black spray paint, and considering the low low cost of doing what I did, It came out pretty good!


It's alot more noticeable in person, considering what it looked like before.

I also started another "project", I took the white decklid we have from my mom's 88 and took off the remaining luggage rack pieces. I plan on mounting the IMSA rear spoiler on it, painting the whole thing black, and putting it on my Fiero.
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N3M3S1S
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Report this Post07-19-2011 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for N3M3S1SClick Here to visit N3M3S1S's HomePageClick Here to Email N3M3S1SSend a Private Message to N3M3S1SEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Which spray can did you go with? I'm going to end up needing to do that soon, especially on my mirrors and sail panels.
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mattwa
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Report this Post07-19-2011 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well for plastic I recommend Krylon Fusion for Plastic, Stain Black. For metal (like the mirrors), I used Rustoleum Semi-gloss Black protective enamel. The Krylon is $3.77 a can, and it will do both sail panels and all the body molding. Since the ground effects take alot of paint I used 97 cent gloss black spray cans from walmart. Looks good!
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Report this Post07-20-2011 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidnightClick Here to Email MidnightSend a Private Message to MidnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks good Matt-

How did you do the sail panels? Did you remove them or paint them on the car?

Need to come over and check that out in person man. Mine is running pretty good now. \m/

Just need that stupid temp gauge to be fixed! Driving me nutz...
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