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Any and all things 3.4 DOHC........... by pavo_roddy
Started on: 11-22-2006 12:30 AM
Replies: 1226 (63361 views)
Last post by: 355Fiero on 12-05-2017 07:32 PM
pavo_roddy
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Report this Post11-26-2006 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pavo_roddySend a Private Message to pavo_roddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olaf_fiero27:

does anyone have a link or a complete set of pics of an LQ1 rebuild ?


Hi all,

Here is the first of hopefully, well at least 1 more thread on it for ya......

Asked question as to, "is anyone rebuilding a 3.4 dohc?"

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20031229-2-041124.html

A thread with a question about rebuild parts for the DOHC:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20050119-1-046103.html

EDIT: Cliff says that adding multiple links to one post is all good, as long as it's fiero reltated! hehe..

Got the first and 2nd page OWNED!! yeaaaaaaah baby!

[This message has been edited by pavo_roddy (edited 11-26-2006).]

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Report this Post11-26-2006 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iClick Here to Email Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Then we shall build on I guess!

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 11-27-2006).]

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Report this Post11-26-2006 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pavo_roddySend a Private Message to pavo_roddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
HI all,

YES sir!! Slap hands!!

A new site possibly about a 3.4 dohc turbo, within the PFF thread....

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20030531-2-031753.html

A thread consisting of opionons on a turbo for the dohc:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050119-2-053941.html

A thread on "What's the best injectors for a 3.4 dohc turbo:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20060811-2-066631.html

------------------
Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in....
Enzo Ferrari....

[This message has been edited by pavo_roddy (edited 11-26-2006).]

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Report this Post11-26-2006 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pavo_roddySend a Private Message to pavo_roddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi all,

Sorry mate, but I've come across nada so far on that subject......Have you tried searching dohcfiero.com yet?

edit: Forgot to add that, I think most just send thier harnesses to Erik, name on the forum, and he mates them together.... His price sounds pretty reasonable, around $ 250 I believe..... I can understand about wanting to do the work your self though..

------------------
Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in....
Enzo Ferrari....

[This message has been edited by pavo_roddy (edited 11-26-2006).]

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Report this Post11-27-2006 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4-mulaGTClick Here to Email 4-mulaGTSend a Private Message to 4-mulaGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok say I wanted the good cams out of the 91-95 the SFI/OBD 1.5 of 94-95 and the better head and intake design of the 96-97
What should I do?
Should I get a complete 94-95 engine and just swap heads & intake?
Or should I get a complete 96-97 engine and swap cams and computer?

[This message has been edited by 4-mulaGT (edited 11-27-2006).]

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Report this Post11-27-2006 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeClick Here to Email FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thats why people say to use 96-97 heads, since the head flows better on the exhaust side, including the manifold.

------------------
PROJECT 1986 GT Stormbringer

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Report this Post11-27-2006 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4-mulaGTClick Here to Email 4-mulaGTSend a Private Message to 4-mulaGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Emc209i:

If it were me, I'd take a 95 motor and put the the cams in 96 heads. There is reason why I wouldn't do this though. Although many people brag about the 96 flow numbers I don't see as to where they are so benificial that I would have to use the newer heads. By adding a short runner intake you can increase flow numbers drastically, as well as headers. The bigger restrictions in fact are not the heads but the intake and exhaust carriers (Plenium and Exhaust headers).

Have a short runner intake and a nice exhaust system built rather than worrying about 96 heads, you'll make more power with the same amount of money invested. Its all a matter of financial possition for me, so I'm thinking about what would be more economic power.

Just my $.02 Hope it helps


Thank You

I like that they flow better but one of the main things I like about the 96+ heads is the much higher quench area for a future turbo

so everything bolts onto the new heads? do I have to worry about oil ports or anything like that?
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Report this Post11-27-2006 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SourmugSend a Private Message to SourmugEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is link to the intake swap from 60 Degree V6.com
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Thanks
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Report this Post11-27-2006 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olaf_fiero27Click Here to Email olaf_fiero27Send a Private Message to olaf_fiero27Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heres one for ya guys..I need to take the belt gear off of the intermidete shaft to take the front motor cover off the get to the timing chain. You need a special puller to take it off, Does anyone know where I can get one or better yet have a picture of it?
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Report this Post11-28-2006 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Emc209i:

Hello,

Ok here is something that I can not find. I'm looking for schematics and diagrams, drawings, etc, of the TDC and its wiring/vacuum lines.



Paul, as you know you can find electrical diagrams and pinouts on my website here: www.gmtuners.com

As for the vacuum diagrams and component locations

91-93 LQ1

94-95 LQ1

96-97 LQ1

-ryan


------------------
power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com

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Report this Post11-28-2006 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave GunsulSend a Private Message to Dave GunsulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 4-mulaGT:

Ok say I wanted the good cams out of the 91-95 the SFI/OBD 1.5 of 94-95 and the better head and intake design of the 96-97
What should I do?
Should I get a complete 94-95 engine and just swap heads & intake?
Or should I get a complete 96-97 engine and swap cams and computer?



You'll want to use the 94-5 cams rather than the 91-3's as they're easier to adjust. I have a set with carriers for sale BTW.

------------------
" There was a lot of little kids there. I watched them flying, doing jumps, and having races. And I thought that all those little kids are going to grow up someday. And all those little kids are going to do the things we do. But for now, sledding is enough. I think it would be great if sledding were always enough, but it isn't."
--the perks of being a wallflower by stephen chbosky

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Report this Post11-28-2006 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dave Gunsul:
You'll want to use the 94-5 cams rather than the 91-3's as they're easier to adjust. I have a set with carriers for sale BTW.


You only need the cam cogs from the 94-95 not the cams themselves.

The only difference between 94-95 cams and 91-93 cams is the left side intake cam on the 94-95 has a bump cast into it for the camshaft position sensor (not used with 91-93 ECMs).
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quote
Originally posted by Dave Gunsul:


You'll want to use the 94-5 cams rather than the 91-3's as they're easier to adjust. I have a set with carriers for sale BTW.


I would prob. buy em if I had a 3.4DOHC yet....
.
.
.
.
.
.
Or even a fiero........
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Report this Post11-29-2006 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 4-mulaGTClick Here to Email 4-mulaGTSend a Private Message to 4-mulaGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
DAMN! now that is sweet
Im guessing crate?
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Report this Post11-29-2006 09:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iClick Here to Email Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
22K Rebuild
Apperently now has around 4K on it. I only pray the guy can figure out how to get it shipped to me fast. Thanks though
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Report this Post11-29-2006 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pavo_roddySend a Private Message to pavo_roddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi all,

WOW!! IS that ever PURRRRTAY!!!

------------------
Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in....
Enzo Ferrari....

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Report this Post11-29-2006 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula OwnerSend a Private Message to Formula OwnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm getting interested in doing this swap. My 2.8 is starting to use oil, but there are no oil spots forming on the floor. I suspect this is the beginning of the end. Anyway, I've been reading several of these swap threads, and I've pretty much decided that the DOHC best fits what I want out of the car, but I haven't been able to find much in the way of dyno sheets. I'd be interested in seeing some dyno sheets from stock engines and those with various mods, especially the 13 deg cam timing mod. BTW, I searched on http://www.60degreev6.com/ and couldn't find any DOHC dyno sheets there either.
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Report this Post11-29-2006 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave GunsulSend a Private Message to Dave GunsulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


You only need the cam cogs from the 94-95 not the cams themselves.

The only difference between 94-95 cams and 91-93 cams is the left side intake cam on the 94-95 has a bump cast into it for the camshaft position sensor (not used with 91-93 ECMs).



I am well aware of that and i have the cogs as well but since he didnt have either the cams, cogs, or even carriers, that's why i put it the way i did. I actually have the cogs seperately in fact and that would sure be a lot easier to ship than the whole set up if anyone's interested.
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Report this Post11-29-2006 12:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutClick Here to Email procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm doing the paint on mine right now but I plan on hitting the dyno as soon as possible. I did retard the exhaust cam 16* and the intake 6*. That allowed a extra 10* overlap. But I did use the 94-65 cams with the 96 heads on a 94 short block. Between the headers I made, port polishing, match porting and intake change; computer dyno showed around 300hp. But I can't confirm that!
I will say this, 13* on the exhaust might be better than what i have. The car runs GREAT!....and pulls hard even going into the rev limiter. Most of the time you expect power loss just before the limiter kicks in but on mine it keeps pulling. I dare to say this but my Mom has a 98 corvette with 385hp but weighs 3300lbs. And driving both of them I can say the vette has more bottem end but on the top end of the RPM range mine pulls harder. If my dyno spec sheet is correct I should hang with the vette.

I think I have given up too much torqe for high rpm power since the rev limiter seems to kick in too soon. Although it is around 7200rpm it still has power to burn. So I may retime the cams after a get a pull at the dyno shop.
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Report this Post11-29-2006 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutClick Here to Email procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

procarnut

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BTW, I am honored that my video clips are on this thread and hope my incomplete computer skills didn't slow anyone down on this thread.

Thanks,
Bob
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Report this Post11-29-2006 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WHEELIEClick Here to visit WHEELIE's HomePageClick Here to Email WHEELIESend a Private Message to WHEELIEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
WHEELIE here from Wheeler's performance near Deals gap.
I just got my dohc running this fall. Been a 3 winter project. has 96 running obd2 using(DHP) tuning.Underdrive pully, ac delete, aluminium flywheel, 5 speed. this also has an 88 rear cradle with swaybar, lowering springs, full poly, kyb struts.
cams hve been retimed to ex retarded 6 degrees and intake advanced 7 degrees. This works out to be 105 cam center. (same as what I use when I build 4 valve head motorcycles. You will notice that this is your (magical)13 degrees!!
I figured with this overlap a set of full length headers were in order. This is what I built.
All tuned equal length, tuned collector length,small megaphone into equal length true dual 2.5 pipes into a dual in dual out 2.5 magnaflow. This thing rips!! pulls hard all the way from 2000-6500 plus. has good torque and no flat spots.
Iam still in the final tuning stages so idle is funky and seems to be running a bit rich but this thing is FUN!!!!!

------------------
WHEELER'S PERFORMANCE MOTORCYCLE SHOP NEAR DEALS GAP
check out TAILOFTHEDRAGON.COM
318 curves in 11 miles
#1 RED 85 GT MY DEAL'S GAP DRAGON SLAYER
# 2 white 86 gt fastback project.
UPDATE 3/03 IT LIVES!! 6 months,many broken bolts and only two engine fires later!! ... needs 3.4 anybody got one for sale?
UPDATE 12/03 3.4 dohc is here,this winter's project
12/04 still this winter's project
12/05 still this winters project
01/06 engine is in! headers built, no mufflers yet,runs but has codes
#3-84 parts car.. for sale free
#4-84 se parts? project? for sale $50
I AM NOT ADDICTED.... BUT
Now # 5 formula project.
runs but needs work(so what's new?)
# 6 2/05 update FIERO # 6 86 GT BLACK It runs but needs work... like a new engine!! damn !! It's an auto I want a 5 speed
#6 update 01/06 have engine plus some goodies. hope to swap soon

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Report this Post11-29-2006 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4-mulaGTClick Here to Email 4-mulaGTSend a Private Message to 4-mulaGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by procarnut:

I'm doing the paint on mine right now but I plan on hitting the dyno as soon as possible. I did retard the exhaust cam 16* and the intake 6*. That allowed a extra 10* overlap. But I did use the 94-65 cams with the 96 heads on a 94 short block. Between the headers I made, port polishing, match porting and intake change; computer dyno showed around 300hp. But I can't confirm that!
I will say this, 13* on the exhaust might be better than what i have. The car runs GREAT!....and pulls hard even going into the rev limiter. Most of the time you expect power loss just before the limiter kicks in but on mine it keeps pulling. I dare to say this but my Mom has a 98 corvette with 385hp but weighs 3300lbs. And driving both of them I can say the vette has more bottem end but on the top end of the RPM range mine pulls harder. If my dyno spec sheet is correct I should hang with the vette.

I think I have given up too much torqe for high rpm power since the rev limiter seems to kick in too soon. Although it is around 7200rpm it still has power to burn. So I may retime the cams after a get a pull at the dyno shop.


According to my handy dandy calc. For you to have the same power-to-weight ratio as her vette youd need approx 308hp

I know im bench racing but IMHO the PTWR is a very reliable number for bench racing with few variables mainly only traction gearing and driver skill.

If your hitting the rev limiter why dont u get a retune to raise it?
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What would be the benefiet of advancing the intake and retarding the exhaust vesus just retarding the exhaust?
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Report this Post11-29-2006 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutClick Here to Email procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I'm no expert...I keep telling people, But...first things first.

Any time you advance or retard a cam you are moving the power band up or down teh RPM range.

so advancing a can will increace power on the low end but reduce power on the top end of the rpm scale.

Thus....retarding the cams will reduce power (torque) on the low end and increase power (HP) on the upper end of the rpm range.

So why did I move my cams differently from each other?....Well, most people remember when racers would install a performance cam in a old v-8. The usuall characteristics would be rougher idle and poor gas milage. Not saying anything about lift or duration which most people understand that... The main increase in power comes from the OVERLAP..Overlap is the duration in timming where both the intake and the exhaust valves are open at the same time. This phenomina allows scavenging to occur. Remember the therum "what goes in motion stays in motion.". Once the gasses in the combution chanber flows out throu the exhaust vavle it can aid in drawing in the fuel mixture into the combustion chamber. However the draw back is lower intake vacuum and rougher idle. That is why the more radical the cam is the higher the idle has to be in order to maintain vacuum to vaporize the fuel going in.

So I retarded the intake 6* then exhaust 16*. This engine made it easy since all four cams run indipendently of each other.

I used a degree wheel (with the engine out)

1. found TDC.
2. calibrated the scale to true TDC.
3. rotated the crank to 6* and turned the intake cam untill the flats were squared to the housing.
4. rotated the crank to 16* and turned the exhaust cam till flats were squared.
5. recheck tighnening and turn crank 360* and rechecked marks.

Now this may not yeld the same if you are running stock exhaust and non ported/polished heads. The big advantage with this is having headers because each header tube allows scavenging to occur easier without iterferance of other exhaust pulses from other neiboring cylinders.

I am still experimenting with it but i would say I feel like it is a 300hp motor.
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procarnut
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Report this Post11-29-2006 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutClick Here to Email procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm sorry i didn't get to the direct question....

Advancing the intake and retarding the exhaust will widen the power band. However it isually doesn't peak the power up alot.

In fact....advancing intake and retarding the exhaust will actually reduce overlap. This is because it moves both lobes farther away from each other.

The advantage is smother, wider power band that has less peaked gain. It's not a bad method...probably more streetable for everyday driving.

I did it my way just to see if I could out run members in my other club.
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4-mulaGT
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Report this Post11-29-2006 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 4-mulaGTClick Here to Email 4-mulaGTSend a Private Message to 4-mulaGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


well I knew the whole more overlap= higher powerband vice versa (basically the whole first post)

but its good info for other readers

I was just curious why you would adjust the intake cam versus just adjusting the exhaust cam 13*

so what your saying is that adjusting the exhaust AND the intake you get a flatter powerband with the higher powerband?
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procarnut
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Report this Post11-29-2006 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutClick Here to Email procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I mean advancing intake and retarding exhaust will widen and flatten the power band.

On mine I retarded the intake and the exhaust in order to move the powerband up on the rpm scale.

So you could say I retarded both intake and exhaust 6* to move the power band up "on the RPM scale" then retarded the exhaust an extra 10* to add overlap = more power on the top end.

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procarnut
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Report this Post11-29-2006 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutClick Here to Email procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Adjusting the exhaust only would add 13* overlap. But I wanted to move the power up to a usable range. I was afraid with too much power on the low end would result in too much wheel spin on take-off. by moving the power band too the high end of the rpm range, it could produce more usable power. Since I am running a getrag trans, I have a rpm range from 4800 to 7200 (rev limit) between gears so low torqe would only be used in the 1st gear. After that i have usable power in all other gears after that.

BUT...since I have so much power on top end I might be better off with a little more torque on botton. This is what I am experimenting with.

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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post11-29-2006 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by procarnut:

In fact....advancing intake and retarding the exhaust will actually reduce overlap. This is because it moves both lobes farther away from each other.


You're wrong. Look at the order of events:
Intake stroke: Intake valve opens, piston moves down, intake valve closes.
Compression stroke: piston moves up, compressing air/fuel mixture
Power stroke: spark plug fires, mixture ignites, piston moves down
Exhaust stroke: exhaust valve opens, piston moves up, exhaust valve closes
Next Intake stroke: intake valve opens, piston moves down, etc....

Notice the exhaust valve closing event is followed by the intake valve opening. If you RETARD the exhaust cam you make it act LATER which means the exhaust valve closes later so the intake valve is going to open longer during the time the exhaust valve is still open. In addition, if you ADVANCE the intake cam you make it act SOONER so the intake valve opens while the exhaust valve is still open or in the process of closing. Advancing the intake and retarding the exhuast both act to increase overlap.

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procarnut
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Report this Post11-29-2006 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for procarnutClick Here to Email procarnutSend a Private Message to procarnutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok.....you got me there....I don't know what i was thinking about at that moment when i wrote that. The geometry can be confusing even for someone with experience.

So on that note.....look at what I did with mine..

Yes I retarded my intake but I retarded my exhaust even more to add over lap. So you (Steve) and I are doing the same thing as far as creating overlap, it's just that I'm moving my peak power to the higher RPM range.

But as I said, I am still experimenting with the adjustments.

Steve....I was just thinking intake retarded and exhaust advanced.....got it backwards.

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