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  FINALLY!!, Yellow PPG GTP Pace Car has a new home in Iowa (Page 2)

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FINALLY!!, Yellow PPG GTP Pace Car has a new home in Iowa by RAREW66
Started on: 04-11-2005 12:23 AM
Replies: 193 (16907 views)
Last post by: solotwo on 08-27-2013 02:12 PM
Racingman24
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Report this Post04-11-2005 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racingman24Click Here to visit Racingman24's HomePageClick Here to Email Racingman24Send a Private Message to Racingman24Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cool Car.

Sorry, I just wanted to own page two.

Eric

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Report this Post04-11-2005 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for litespdSend a Private Message to litespdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Congratulations, Fred! It's great to know that the car will finally be "safe"...that it will be in the hands of someone that will restore it and appreciate the rarity of it. I'm jealous!!!
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Report this Post04-11-2005 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodogClick Here to Email fierodogSend a Private Message to fierodogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hmmm anyone else see what I'm seeing? looks like a fastback clip with notchie tailights creating the lip effect.
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Report this Post04-12-2005 12:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NotAFieroAnyLongerClick Here to Email NotAFieroAnyLongerSend a Private Message to NotAFieroAnyLongerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierodog:


hmmm anyone else see what I'm seeing? looks like a fastback clip with notchie tailights creating the lip effect.

Yes, I see that too.. That is because they are the ONLY ones like that, that Pontiac made for the Fastback...

------------------

Choptytopped WideBody GT 1 of 1
4.9L-V8-Auto---almost finished

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RAREW66
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Report this Post04-12-2005 12:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RAREW66Click Here to visit RAREW66's HomePageClick Here to Email RAREW66Send a Private Message to RAREW66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is the timeline of where the Yellow Car has been since new:

The 6 cars were built in grand Rapids MI at C+F Plastics, a division of AutoStyle in the fall of 1985. The cars did precision driving manuevers at CART Pre-Race festivities in North America during the 1986 season with the inagural debut at Michigan International Speedway. The cars then had a limited 1987 season in Europe. After that, PPG had another set of Pace Cars for the 1988 season, so the Fieros were taken out of commission. 3 of the cars were owned by GM and the other 3 were owned by PPG. We know that of the three that GM owned, two were destroyed in the late 80's and the Blue Car remains as a permanent asset of the Special Vehicles Collection. PPG donated their three to various places. The Red Turbo car went directly to the vocational school in Cleveland, my Yellow Car went to the MIS museum, and the third car has an undetermined fait. Who knows, it could be sitting in the corner of some vocational school undiscovered. After my Yellow car spent a year at MIS, it was decided that the car would be donated to Vo-Tech Vocational School in Adrian MI. The car was used for student eduction until approximately 2000. At that time, the school had felt that the car had served it's duty and decided that there was no longer a need to keep the car. This is where us Fiero Enthusiasts stepped in and made the attempt to convince the school that the car was too significant to be destroyed. The car was discovered by the Michigan Fiero Club President in 1996. The car was photographed in 1998 for an article printed in the Michigan Fiero Club Newsletter. Ron Trechiel of the MFC was in contact with the school to do an article on the car for FOCOA in 2000. At the time that Ron contacted the school, he was told that he needed to get the pictures the same week, because the car was being picked up at the end of the week to be crushed. As luck would have it, the truck that was supposed to come and pick up the car broke down. Ron then had the opportunity to once again expalin the rarity and significance of the car to the school. The school ultimately decided not to crush the car and looked in to the legalities of selling the car to a private owner. The problem that occurred was that the school lost the contact information of the Fiero guys that would help the car find a new home. So, the car sat outside under a tree from Spring 2000 until Spring 2004 when the car was offered to the used car dealer across the street from the school. A $500 donation was given to the school in exchange for the car. I went to look at the car in October 2004 and made attempts to negotiate a sale on a weekly basis until a price was settled on on March 12th. I almost had a settlement made in December, but the Forum exposure and offers that the car received in late December made the owner of the car think that the car was worth more and withdrew on our agreed price at that time. So, I pretty much gave up on attempting any more negotiations. Early in March the owner called me and indicated that he was ready to sell the car to me, but the price issues were still under discussion. But that is over now and the car is safe where it will once again be appreciated.

I plan on showing the car at the Dells, Michigan Show, and at the NIFE show this year before the car goes under restoration.

More to come later...........

Fred

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doublec4
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Report this Post04-12-2005 12:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
whats the interior like? stock?
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post04-12-2005 02:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Truely a piece of history if I have ever seen one. I am glad this car has ended up in the hands of someone who will give it the respect it's history deserves instead of getting hacked up or parted out. If I know Fred, when this car is finished, it will be better than new. The only problem is finding the paint...

------------------
power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com

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Report this Post04-12-2005 02:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott-WaClick Here to visit Scott-Wa's HomePageClick Here to Email Scott-WaSend a Private Message to Scott-WaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad it's in good hands and like many others here... I love the nose, I'd buy that if you pull or let someone else pull a mold of it. I think on a modded fiero it would look great with Ausfiero's stage two side scoops. I suspect for my taste better than the ones with the 308 style noses, especially because it looks Pontiac.

Congratulations!

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Report this Post04-12-2005 02:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1987bluegtClick Here to Email 1987bluegtSend a Private Message to 1987bluegtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ENGINE PICS PLEASE

BTW Drool

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Report this Post04-12-2005 06:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AusFieroClick Here to visit AusFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email AusFieroSend a Private Message to AusFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What I would have given to have this car. Do it proud.

------------------

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Report this Post04-12-2005 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rvalmoreClick Here to Email rvalmoreSend a Private Message to rvalmoreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
These PPG design cars are truely the best looking Fiero IMO there are. I too believe mold it and they will buy. That nose would look great on a GT.Great find wish I were closer to be able to see in person at a show.

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Report this Post04-12-2005 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMonkeyClick Here to Email FieroMonkeySend a Private Message to FieroMonkeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i just can't get over how clean the lines on this car look. very refined to my eye. would have made a nice production car i think, maybe even a cross platform for GM. oh well, no sense in thinking in that direction, back to regular programming
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RACE
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Report this Post04-12-2005 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RACEClick Here to visit RACE's HomePageClick Here to Email RACESend a Private Message to RACEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bring it to the Central Iowa Meet. There are a lot of us who want to see it. I will even give you $10 for gas.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/050052.html

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post04-12-2005 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I remember correctly, it costs upwards of $5000 to make a mold and reproduce something like a front nose. How many here who say they want molds/copies made would be willing to spend that kind of money? The front fenders on this PPG pace car are wider than stock Fiero, so you would need them IF you wanted to use this nose; unless some custom work was done to reshape/resize this nose to work with stock Fiero panels. In any case, you are probably going to have well over $5000 in just parts not including paint or installation hardware to make it all work.

No offense to anyone here, but it seems any time something like this sees the light of day, everyone and their brother wants molds and copies made but nobody wants to pay to have it done. I am sure of someone was willing to foot the costs for doing this, Fred might be willing to help out. Then again, that might take away from the uniqueness of his purchase???

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Report this Post04-13-2005 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know I'm going to get my head ripped off for saying this... but I don't think the lines on the car aren't all that appealing. In my opinion, the fastback area above the gas cap in the side profile picture looks very awkward. The regular fiero gt fastback looks like it has better lines. Also, the lip spoiler above the notchie tail lights has that overhang creating a shadow "void." To me this looks like a huge gap due to incomplete body work, or tail lights that dont belong. The general shape of the nose is nice. I would change the shape of the two large openings though. Maybe I'll do a photoshop...

[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 04-13-2005).]

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RACE
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Report this Post04-13-2005 01:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RACEClick Here to visit RACE's HomePageClick Here to Email RACESend a Private Message to RACEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The look of the car, although unique, is not what makes it special. The purpose of the car, and the history surrounding it is what makes it so neat.

You can mod your cars and maybe even come up with some great designs that look a whole lot better but you can never create a factory prototype. Surviving prototype Fieros are irreplaceable because they simply do not make them anymore and there are only a handful left.

I think that is a fantastic find. I am proud that it resides in Iowa.

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Report this Post04-13-2005 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageClick Here to Email MinnGreenGTSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:

If I remember correctly, it costs upwards of $5000 to make a mold and reproduce something like a front nose. How many here who say they want molds/copies made would be willing to spend that kind of money? The front fenders on this PPG pace car are wider than stock Fiero, so you would need them IF you wanted to use this nose; unless some custom work was done to reshape/resize this nose to work with stock Fiero panels. In any case, you are probably going to have well over $5000 in just parts not including paint or installation hardware to make it all work.

No offense to anyone here, but it seems any time something like this sees the light of day, everyone and their brother wants molds and copies made but nobody wants to pay to have it done. I am sure of someone was willing to foot the costs for doing this, Fred might be willing to help out. Then again, that might take away from the uniqueness of his purchase???

If you find a glass guy who wants $5k to make a mold for just a nose... you probably should look for another glass guy.

I would be willing to spend a good chunk of change for those body panels (all of 'em) - especially if the reproduction panels were being made & handled by Sage or another proven 'glass supplier. $5k wouldn't be that different from buying an IMSA-style widebody. I would agree that it would be expensive, but if even a couple of us who seriously liked the body were to pitch-in... it would be do-able.

Sure, it's not going to be a $300 parts kit like a lot of import stuff... but to me, it'd be worth it to have that bodystyle.

Anyway - it's all speculation until Fred actually says whether or not he's even considering having the panels replicated. Something else to note - when Fred showed me a copy of the original autostyle brochure, it mentioned that none of the panels were fiberglass, but rather RIM and similar plastics to those of the originals. So even if 'glass reproductions are made - they'll be fairly easy to distinguish from the only "originals" still viewable.

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Report this Post04-13-2005 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fred,

beautiful purchase - congratulations! Nice talking to you on the phone yesterday, too.

 
quote
Originally posted by RAREW66:


Fred

------------------

www.yellowfiero.com/fiero.html
17" DEZENT T wheels with 215/40 tires front and 235/45 rear, KONI shocks, EIBACH lowering springs, drilled/slotted rotors, SS brake hoses. PU dog bone, all bushings and engine mounts, K&N air and oil filters, OZELOT exhaust, Mercedes SLK yellow paintjob, Mr. Mikes leather seats, door skins, shift and e-brake boots. MP3 deck and custom subwoofer behind passenger seat, F355 style front. Fiero Store rear swaybar, strut tower brace, black carpet, air intake. Rodney Dickman's competition short shifter, SS vacuum lines and deck lid strut. Billet aluminum dash kit from Kitcarman.

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Report this Post04-13-2005 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for achawkinsClick Here to visit achawkins's HomePageClick Here to Email achawkinsSend a Private Message to achawkinsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After all that, do you have a title in hand?

------------------
____________________Marty
The Pearl White GT Build Up

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red GT
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Report this Post04-15-2005 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for red GTSend a Private Message to red GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm looking forward to all the WEEKEND picture updates that you "will" be posting right Fred, old buddy old pal!

------------------
8T6 GT

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Report this Post04-15-2005 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow! I miss a lot when I work 12 hour shifts...

Congratulations on your purchase, Fred! I know it's in good hands.
Gonna bring it to the swap meet?

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Report this Post04-19-2005 12:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Silicoan86Click Here to Email Silicoan86Send a Private Message to Silicoan86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any news?
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Report this Post04-19-2005 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SLAMMED87GTClick Here to Email SLAMMED87GTSend a Private Message to SLAMMED87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tell ya what, I've been out of the Fiero game for a while, but checkin' out this post about a hella rare PPG Fiero is sweet. I tell you, one thing I do remember about the Fiero thing is the rare finds that are of so much interest in the community. Nice car.
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Report this Post04-23-2005 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Cheever3000Send a Private Message to Cheever3000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fred, please check your pm's and emails.
Thanks dude.

And major congratulations on your newest acquisition!!! Nice work!

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Report this Post04-23-2005 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for netpro55Click Here to visit netpro55's HomePageClick Here to Email netpro55Send a Private Message to netpro55Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierodog:


hmmm anyone else see what I'm seeing? looks like a fastback clip with notchie tailights creating the lip effect.

OMG that is the perfect fiero the best of both notchie and fastback.

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netpro55

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quote
Originally posted by RAREW66:

Fred

I think they were going to try Fire bird lights in there they look very similar to that opening

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Report this Post04-23-2005 10:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Oustanding find ! An absolute gold mine of fiero history,... congratulations.

While i appreciate it's historical value, i have to disagree with those clamoring for molds,.. IMO the car is really not that good looking at all,... especially the nose !

The GT definatly looks better. I guess we all have different tastes, which helps makes the world go round.

Just my humble worthless opinion hehehe.

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Report this Post04-23-2005 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The tail lamps would look good if you use the Supra tail lights

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-23-2005).]

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RAREW66
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Report this Post04-24-2005 02:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RAREW66Click Here to visit RAREW66's HomePageClick Here to Email RAREW66Send a Private Message to RAREW66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is some info on the ID tags and VIN information I have on accumulated on the three existing PPG cars.

My Yellow Car is car sequence number 4:

The VIN tag under the left speaker shows that the car is the 11th 85 Fiero made:

The VIN indicates that the car was a 85 Fiero GT. I will be calling Jim Mattison at Pontiac Historical to see how many V-6 cars there were in the first 10 sequence numbers. My Yellow Car is missing the SPI Tag on the left inner fender. Kind of cool to know that the car is a first hour of production car for MY1985.

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RAREW66
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Report this Post04-24-2005 03:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RAREW66Click Here to visit RAREW66's HomePageClick Here to Email RAREW66Send a Private Message to RAREW66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Red Turbo Car in Cleveland is car sequence number 1:

The SPI Tag was missing off of the #1 car. I have made a call to the instructor at the school to see if he could take the left dash speaker out and either take pictures or record the VIN Tag on the Steering Culumn Support. He said he would get back with me. It will be intersting to see what sequence number the car is.

The Blue car at GM is sequence number 2:

The #2 GM car has the SPI Tag on the left inner fender:

The #2 car was a 85 Fiero GT also. The VIN was much later at 40230. I have no clue why, but I do not find it out of the ordinary for GM.

I did get confirmation that 3 of the cars were owned by GM and the other three were owned by PPG. The blue car was retained for the GM collection and the other two were destroyed. I have yet to discover which two cars were destryed. The three PPG cars were donated to vocational schools: one at Cleveland, OH (Red Turbo), one at Adrain, MI (Yellow), and one that is completely un-accounted for. It would be really neat to find the missing car stuffed in the back of an unknown vocational school somewhere. I would speculate that it is gone, but there is always the chance the car still exists.

I have been color sanding and polishing my Yellow car over the past couple of weeks to at least make it presentable for show car season this year. The paint was a four stage process. The base is standard PPG Lemon Ice. A gold based Pearl Coat was sprayed over the Yellow. The third coat was clear with silver metallic added followed by the final clear coat. I will have to get some pics out in the sun where the paint is not faded. All I know is that the local PPG Paint store has no idea how to replicate the paint formula. Hopefully PPG themselves can help in providing the paint needed to restore the car. Most of the top surfaces are faded. The mold and tree sap from sitting under a tree for 4 years has most of the top surfaces damaged to the point that I have to sand down to the base coat to get shiny paint. At least the car will be shiny for the Fiero Community and Myself to enjoy this year before I begin the restoration.

I have a gas tank, sending unit, and filler neck coming from Ed Parks in a condition that will reflect the 1486 miles that the car has on it. In the time that the car sat outside, the gas cap was left off of the car. So, needless to say, the tank was full of dirt and rust. The car ran up until I decided to put gas in it. The fuel pump did'nt last at all with all the crap that was in the tank. I will have to modify the new tank to accept the fuel hose from the fuel cell that is in the front. I come to find that the Super Duty fuel cells were not available to the public. Only the factory race teams had access to these:

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RAREW66
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Report this Post04-24-2005 03:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RAREW66Click Here to visit RAREW66's HomePageClick Here to Email RAREW66Send a Private Message to RAREW66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

RAREW66

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The Fuel cell hose that connect to the stock gas tank:

The fuel cell:

Fred

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Report this Post04-24-2005 05:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
when we going to get to see the motor? is it still turboed? just alittle curious and anxious.
Ive always wanted a PPG pace car ever since I got a ride in one. (the blue one at the 20th) it was so loud, but nice
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Report this Post05-20-2005 12:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Silicoan86Click Here to Email Silicoan86Send a Private Message to Silicoan86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump to the top.
Also - I just noticed that it doesn't have the stock intake scoop. So where does the intake come from??
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Report this Post05-20-2005 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ARKaiserClick Here to Email ARKaiserSend a Private Message to ARKaiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hope you don't mind Fred that I post a couple of picture I took at MIS.

and somrthing I did special that I like ...


If you can't tell I love this car.

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redraif
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Report this Post05-20-2005 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redraifClick Here to Email redraifSend a Private Message to redraifEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Incredible find! I would be taking tons of pics too!

I would not be too sure about GM destroying their versions of the car! Alot of junk yards took possesion and never crushed the cars! That happened alot in the 80s!

I know of someone who has the GM prototypes for the Turbo TA. (emissions cars) He has 2 and knows where the 3rd is! One is black the other burgandy. I think the other he does not have is red! If I ever make some decent $ I will go after the 3rd! I would love to own the black one! Man it is a beautiful car!

------------------
"I'm just a girl..."
1984 Indy Fiero Pace Car
1987 Red & Black Firebird: "RAIF" WEBSITE: www.redraif.com
OTHER CARS’ WEBSITES:
1982 Trans AM / 1990 Chevy Dually / 1976 Scout II / 1987 Nissan Pulsar

[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 05-20-2005).]

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R Runner
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Report this Post05-20-2005 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for R RunnerClick Here to visit R Runner's HomePageClick Here to Email R RunnerSend a Private Message to R RunnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow,
Wow,
and (of course)
Wow!

That is amazing. They are definately in the right hands.

------------------
Paul

Home Built Tube Chassis IMSA Race Car - 3.8 lb./hp | 1987 Fiero GT 119,xxx, 3.1 motor, HHP swaybar, Full poly
For more IMSA Fiero info: http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/789315

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post05-21-2005 03:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fred tells me he has a video of him driving his PPG car around the MIS track...
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Gto1966
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Report this Post05-21-2005 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gto1966Click Here to Email Gto1966Send a Private Message to Gto1966Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very cool find. Absoluteley Beautiful !
Is the area above the tail lights open for air intake?
Can you post a pic showing the top of the lights with trunk open.
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RAREW66
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Report this Post05-22-2005 04:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RAREW66Click Here to visit RAREW66's HomePageClick Here to Email RAREW66Send a Private Message to RAREW66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are some pictures of the engine and related components:

The intake mainifold is modified to eliminate the runners and provide one large plenum. A plate is welded straight across the bottom of the intake increasing the volume significantly. It will be interesting to see what is inside when I have time.

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RAREW66
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Report this Post05-22-2005 04:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RAREW66Click Here to visit RAREW66's HomePageClick Here to Email RAREW66Send a Private Message to RAREW66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The car has an 8 quart oil pan with oil temperature sensor. The Oil Temp Gauge is part of the cluster above the A/C vents :

PCV Catch Can modified from the A/C Accumulator. With the exception of the Evaporator Core and A/C Controls on the dash, the entire A/C system was removed.

Close up of Air Cleaner in Trunk:

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