I've noticed that people like to quote others and change the words in the quote to make it look like the original author said something that in fact wasn't said, often in a disparaging manner. Now, I've made it clear that I don't like it when folks do that to me, but it's also been clear that our POS moderator who can't be bothered to do basic moderating doesn't give a rat shite about this occurring, and also it's clear that there's absolutely nothing whatsoever that I can do to stop y'all from f**cking with my words. So, my question is, is it ok to misquote like this? What do y'all think? Because if that's the way it is on this forum, I figure I can fit in by doing the same as well. I don't want to be different than the other's here. I've been disparagingly misquoted dozens of times so far, even today by Avengawhore, so it's clear to me that there's no real concern on the part of others about doing this. Am I right?

Just asking to make sure.

The fact that your getting so upset at a childish act on a computer kinda upsets me. Thought you were bigger then that? Remove the manpon and get even if it bothers you that much.

I have a feeling the thread will end badly, but I'll put my input in;

I don't believe it's wise to misquote - even jokingly. The issue is that a quote is literally meant to repeat what has been said and attach said words to the person who said (in this case, typed) them. Think of all the instances in real life where there have been massive amounts of mis-quoting. The same reasoning applies here. Now I know that there have been some that have accidentally altered portions of quotes trying to get multiple ones in - it can be difficult juggling more than one, I understand and it's acceptable. However, blatant altering of wording that someone has typed is not right.

I have never been a fan of people doing that. I don't mind when people snip out a section of what somebody posted and quote that, as it's the original-author's words, but if you start adding words and statements into that quote, then you are falsifying that quote. Unfortunately this happens all the time not only here, but throughout the media.

That being said, I have seen other forums insta-ban people for doing that. And I'm sure it'll be posted more than once in this thread, but it's Cliff's house and it's his choice to keep it as tidy or as messy as he wants. You can always find other places on the internet to post.


And like Abraham Lincoln once said:

quote The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine.

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'04 Mazda RX8 Build Thread
'88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph (Sold and gone now)
GM Tuners

We may have our differences, but I would never to that to anyone.

I was clicking around earlier and by accident I hit "edit" on a post above mine. I was amazed that it would let me edit someone else's post. I figured that was for mods only. I guess if you really want to know if a post is "pure" you have pay close attention for/to the little blue text at the bottom. As far as quotes go, I guess if ones interest is peaked, one will have to go look for the op.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I've noticed that people like to quote others and change the words in the quote to make it look like the original author said something that in fact wasn't said, often in a disparaging manner. Now, I've made it clear that I don't like it when folks do that to me, but it's also been clear that our POS moderator who can't be bothered to do basic moderating doesn't give a rat shite about this occurring, and also it's clear that there's absolutely nothing whatsoever that I can do to stop y'all from f**cking with my words. So, my question is, is it ok to misquote like this? What do y'all think? Because if that's the way it is on this forum, I figure I can fit in by doing the same as well. I don't want to be different than the other's here. I've been disparagingly misquoted dozens of times so far, even today by Avengawhore, so it's clear to me that there's no real concern on the part of others about doing this. Am I right? Just asking to make sure.

No one is making you stay if you don't like it.

I might have done that once at some point and time, but if I did it was in a light hearted thread and solely meant as a joke and most likely towards MEM (because I find him humorous and some of the contradicitions he posts to be amusseing). I however do not make a habit of it.

My view on it is as long as the altered quote isn't imlpied to be the original wording then I don't see the harm. Meaning as long as they draw attention to the misquote and do not misquote and pass it off as what you said then I don't care. Now if they misquote someone and act as if the quote is verbatim what you typed, with no "fixed that for you" or some other statement telling that the quote is not the actual wording you used, that I would have a problem with. Reality is a "fixed that for you" tells you right then and there that what was quoted is not what was said.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Finally_Mine_86_GT: The fact that your getting so upset at a childish act on a computer kinda upsets me. Thought you were bigger then that? Remove the manpon and get even if it bothers you that much

I'm not particularly upset. That's one thing I've accomplished after years of being viciously attacked on this forum, how to take it without letting it bother me too much if even at all. I do believe in the line from the Untouchables movie back in the 80's, the one that deal with escalation. I don't have a problem bring a metaphorical gun to a metaphorical knife fight. Had to make it clear what I meant there, some of the folks following me around have demonstrated pretty severe reading comprehension problems. No real gun, no real knife, no description of violence against others or any threat thereof.

quote Originally posted by Fiero84Freak: I have a feeling the thread will end badly, but I'll put my input in; I don't believe it's wise to misquote - even jokingly. The issue is that a quote is literally meant to repeat what has been said and attach said words to the person who said (in this case, typed) them. Think of all the instances in real life where there have been massive amounts of mis-quoting. The same reasoning applies here. Now I know that there have been some that have accidentally altered portions of quotes trying to get multiple ones in - it can be difficult juggling more than one, I understand and it's acceptable. However, blatant altering of wording that someone has typed is not right.

That's how I feel. I've never felt it was right to alter someone else's words to change the meaning, even as a joke, but especially not when it wasn't a joke. It's too easy for someone skimming through a thread to see a reply to a quote, then look at the quote and see words that were not written by the person whose name is in the quote tag, and as a result gain a false impression of what was written. That, to me, is a really nasty form of lying. Lying about someone is one thing, but lying in their words is much worse. So far two people have pushed it with me and gotten away with it because the moderator is AWOL, CliffW and Avengador1. Little tests, little escalations, and I either need to take it in the asss, or retaliate. The only way I can retaliate is by doing to them what they're doing to me, but escalated. I know that they'll escalate, and soon it'll become a giant shitfest. I'd rather not, but I can't let them dominate me, can't let them win and accept humiliation. I just don't know how, and refuse to learn to be a victim.

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: I have never been a fan of people doing that. I don't mind when people snip out a section of what somebody posted and quote that, as it's the original-author's words, but if you start adding words and statements into that quote, then you are falsifying that quote. Unfortunately this happens all the time not only here, but throughout the media. That being said, I have seen other forums insta-ban people for doing that. And I'm sure it'll be posted more than once in this thread, but it's Cliff's house and it's his choice to keep it as tidy or as messy as he wants. You can always find other places on the internet to post.

Cliff doesn't do that level of moderation here, never has, and likely never will. He also won't let anyone else moderate, so unless I can somehow convince 500 people to give negatives to CliffW and Avengador1 they'll both continue driving the situation. Edit to add, I'm not asking anyone to rate anyone with any rating. Hate to have to put this disclaimer in, but reading comprehension with a couple of folks on this forum is a real issue.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: No one is making you stay if you don't like it.

No one is making me leave if I don't want to. I choose to be here, and I understand that all the nastiness is just part of PFF. I actually am learning a lot from being here, so it's overall a positive experience. Knowledge is power, and all that.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-08-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Khw: It won't let you edit someone elses post. Try it and hit submit...

Well, alright then.

I had no reason to hit submit earlier.

quote Originally posted by Gtdhw: Well, alright then. I had no reason to hit submit earlier.

Yeah, it freaked me out the first time I accidentally hit edit on someone else's post too. BTW, hitting edit on another's post is a great way to see how they did something with the UBB code.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Yeah, it freaked me out the first time I accidentally hit edit on someone else's post too. BTW, hitting edit on another's post is a great way to see how they did something with the UBB code.

Yes it is !

I have rearranged quotes in order to respond to as many replies as possible in a concise manner. Unless the whole thread was based in a humorous light, I avoid "fixed it" scenarios because I enjoy staying under the radar.

That said, citing a specific line or sentence within a block of text is totally within reason to clarify which part of the post is being replied to (as far as I'm concerned). This is especially helpful in political or religious threads (which I tend to jump in more often than I would've expected to before joining).

Say... You reply to Cliffw, he emboldens a sentence in the novel you've likely rewritten 62 times before posting and chooses to take a shot at that particular line of reasoning... Is that wrong and a misquote, or is that simple clarification of which component of that thought needs addressing?

You seem to play devil's advocate with some touchy subjects - that doesn't make it any easier, ya know?

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: Say... You reply to Cliffw, he emboldens a sentence in the novel you've likely rewritten 62 times before posting and chooses to take a shot at that particular line of reasoning... Is that wrong and a misquote, or is that simple clarification of which component of that thought needs addressing?

I don't really think that's what he's talking about. I think he's talking more along the lines of:

"I really think those people need to learn how to budget money and stop spending the money the way they are".

Which would be quoted and posted like this.

quote I really think those people democrats need to learn how to budget money other peoples money and stop spending the money other peoples money the way they are.

Fixed that for ya.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Khw: Fixed that for ya.

I know but he did bring up the point of escalation... Which happens very quickly between the lovely pair I used as an example. It usually starts there and ends up with name calling and false (I hope) accusations about the other user's character or ethics.

Someone has to put an end to it before it gets out of hand. Thats what the post several above this one hinted at.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: but it's also been clear that our POS moderator

Wow. You'd think that crapping on your host would be considered to be in bad taste.

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 12-09-2011).]

People are free to quote then alter my replies all they wish, even if from different threads as long as they also provide a link back to that thread. Won't bother me in the least, as I have far more important things to do in my life than worry about whether I have been intentionally or even unintentionally misquoted. In the big scheme of things, the words I type on the internet simply aren't all that important--really.

quote I've noticed that people like to quote others and change the words in the quote to make it look like the original author said something that in fact wasn't said, often in a disparaging manner. Now, I've made it clear that I don't like it when folks do that to me, but it's also been clear that our POS moderator who can't be bothered to do basic moderating doesn't give a rat shite about this occurring, and also it's clear that there's absolutely nothing whatsoever that I can do to stop y'all from f**cking with my words. So, my question is, is it ok to misquote like this? What do y'all think? Because if that's the way it is on this forum, I figure I can fit in by doing the same as well. I don't want to be different than the other's here. I've been disparagingly misquoted dozens of times so far, even today by Avengawhore, so it's clear to me that there's no real concern on the part of others about doing this. Am I right? Just asking to make sure.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-09-2011).]

Odd that, under the cloak of claimed civility, you would go out of your way to be personally insulting:

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: it's also been clear that our POS moderator who can't be bothered to do basic moderating

quote I've been disparagingly misquoted dozens of times so far, even today by Avengawhore,

And you have the self-righteous claim to civility?

No, come to think of it, it is not odd. It is what you are. Disparage others at will, then complain if you think you feel an affront. Call Cliff a POS for giving you this venue to spew your, well, viewpoint, though he does it without recompense.

Disparage another poster by a slur, never bother to address the substance of anything he's ever said. Techniques of Propaganda 101: It's enough that we all know that his thoughts are not worthy of consideration.

And how nice of you to run around posting rules by combining another's username with an obscenely intended word. (Note that I did not say "obscenity." Words, themselves, are not obscene. Only people's thoughts (like yours) are.)

Nothing you post here reflects any grounding in reality. You seem to know nothing but "Me, Me, Me."

You want respect? Abandon the Goebbels (sorry, I have no umlauts on my keyboard) school of addressing others.
You want respect? Grow up, very fast.
You want respect? Stop insulting everyone else here, jacking your middle finger to Cliff, and then complaining that no one gives you a free forum to announce your uneducated views.

When you regard others here with respect, and learn to speak as an educated man, I will welcome you. Until then, go away.

It all depends, in reality, upon WHO started this trend of insults so long ago.I have gone back a long way to try to find the start of this trend, and I rather think the insults originated not from Jazzman, but some people who think that 'Socialists' are the scum of the Earth, and began the whole sorry episode. It escalates, obviously...and then the person first insulted responds in a like , but stronger fashion.
I think that Jazzman has been unneccessarily goaded into lashing out as a result. If people would either read his views, and respond with equanimity, or simply choose to read and then ignore them, then this whole childish interaction would have NEVER started in the first place. EVERYBODY is entitled to their opinion, and to express it. It really IS that simple.
I am not defending James' VIEWS. I am looking at the whole picture, and cannot blame James any more than I can blame a few people here who think they are God.
Most who attack him are self-confessed piss artists, and I suspect they post their insults under that influence.
However, I strongly condemn James' vitriolic attacks upon Cliff. That is WAY out of line, IMHO.

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 12-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I don't have a problem bring a metaphorical gun to a metaphorical knife fight. Had to make it clear what I meant there, some of the folks following me around have demonstrated pretty severe reading comprehension problems. No real gun, no real knife, no description of violence against others or any threat thereof

Smart thing for you that you clarified that!
People have been suspended or even banned just for making a joke of that type.

I hope you survive this ill chosen fight Jazzman.
I'm quite certain that the usual suspects who attack you will.

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Drive safely!

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 12-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: ... so unless I can somehow convince 500 people to give negatives positives to CliffW ...

quote Originally posted by maryjane: People are free to quote then alter my replies all they wish, even if from different threads as long as they also provide a link back to that thread. Won't bother me in the least, as I have far more important things to do in my life than worry about whether I have been intentionally or even unintentionally misquoted a nut sack and enough brains to know that people don't skim, say every third post, . In the big scheme of things, the words I type on the internet simply aren't all that important are as important as a cricket's fart--really.

Ive been a victim of some people flatley changing quotes attributed to me. I just look at the mentally deficient people doing it and ignore them. Everyone already knows who they are.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: ... So, my question is, is it ok to misquote like this? What do y'all think? Because if that's the way it is on this forum, I figure I can fit in by doing the same as well. I don't want to be different than the other's here. I've been disparagingly misquoted dozens of times so far, even today by Avengawhore, so it's clear to me that there's no real concern on the part of others about doing this. Am I right? Just asking to make sure.

I like to think that if I know something bothers me I would be above retaliating in like manner. There are better ways to make sure your point is clear. Usually a "tit for tat" just fuels the flames.

quote Originally posted by Shyster: You want respect? Abandon the Goebbels school of addressing others. You want respect? Grow up, very fast. You want respect? Stop insulting everyone else here....

I wish that were true.
But the fact is you can be guilty of doing none of those things to others here and still be treated in a disrespectful manner by some of the suppossed "respected" members here.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: ˙ǝɹns ǝʞɐɯ oʇ ƃuıʞsɐ ʇsnɾ ¿ʇɥƃıɹ ı ɯɐ ˙sıɥʇ ƃuıop ʇnoqɐ sɹǝɥʇo ɟo ʇɹɐd ǝɥʇ uo uɹǝɔuoɔ lɐǝɹ ou s,ǝɹǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʇ ǝɯ oʇ ɹɐǝlɔ s,ʇı os 'ǝɹoɥʍɐƃuǝʌɐ ʎq ʎɐpoʇ uǝʌǝ 'ɹɐɟ os sǝɯıʇ ɟo suǝzop pǝʇonbsıɯ ʎlƃuıƃɐɹɐdsıp uǝǝq ǝʌ,ı ˙ǝɹǝɥ s,ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ uɐɥʇ ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ǝq oʇ ʇuɐʍ ʇ,uop ı ˙llǝʍ sɐ ǝɯɐs ǝɥʇ ƃuıop ʎq uı ʇıɟ uɐɔ ı ǝɹnƃıɟ ı 'ɯnɹoɟ sıɥʇ uo sı ʇı ʎɐʍ ǝɥʇ s,ʇɐɥʇ ɟı ǝsnɐɔǝq ¿ʞuıɥʇ llɐ,ʎ op ʇɐɥʍ ¿sıɥʇ ǝʞıl ǝʇonbsıɯ oʇ ʞo ʇı sı 'sı uoıʇsǝnb ʎɯ 'os ˙spɹoʍ ʎɯ ɥʇıʍ ƃuıʞɔ**ɟ ɯoɹɟ llɐ,ʎ doʇs oʇ op uɐɔ ı ʇɐɥʇ ɹǝʌǝosʇɐɥʍ ƃuıɥʇou ʎlǝʇnlosqɐ s,ǝɹǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʇ ɹɐǝlɔ s,ʇı oslɐ puɐ 'ƃuıɹɹnɔɔo sıɥʇ ʇnoqɐ ǝʇıɥs ʇɐɹ ɐ ǝʌıƃ ʇ,usǝop ƃuıʇɐɹǝpoɯ ɔısɐq op oʇ pǝɹǝɥʇoq ǝq ʇ,uɐɔ oɥʍ ɹoʇɐɹǝpoɯ sod ɹno ʇɐɥʇ ɹɐǝlɔ uǝǝq oslɐ s,ʇı ʇnq 'ǝɯ oʇ ʇɐɥʇ op sʞloɟ uǝɥʍ ʇı ǝʞıl ʇ,uop ı ʇɐɥʇ ɹɐǝlɔ ʇı ǝpɐɯ ǝʌ,ı 'ʍou ˙ɹǝuuɐɯ ƃuıƃɐɹɐdsıp ɐ uı uǝʇɟo 'pıɐs ʇ,usɐʍ ʇɔɐɟ uı ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıɥʇǝɯos pıɐs ɹoɥʇnɐ lɐuıƃıɹo ǝɥʇ ǝʞıl ʞool ʇı ǝʞɐɯ oʇ ǝʇonb ǝɥʇ uı spɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ǝƃuɐɥɔ puɐ sɹǝɥʇo ǝʇonb oʇ ǝʞıl ǝldoǝd ʇɐɥʇ pǝɔıʇou ǝʌ,ı

I really think you need to seek mental help man, and this is coming from ME.

Brad

The only time I edit someone's post is for brevity, adding "..." where I remove text.
Occasionally, I'll break up a long post into separate segments, and comment on each point.

I recognize that you were not likely addressing me, since it's not something I do.

I will, however, take the opportunity to say that I think that you are behaving like a crybaby.
If you crapped on the rug at my house, I'd throw you out on your ass.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: If you crapped on the rug at my house, I'd throw you out on your ass.

Luckily for Jazzy the "POS Moderator" has made it a point to not take people's comments personally. He's said again and again that he doesn't take anything personally, the "POS moderator" said he doesn't take crap on here personally, not Jazzman, the guy that called Cliff Pennock a "POS Moderator". Jazzman takes crap personally that wasn't even aimed at him.

Brad

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: ...our POS moderator who can't be bothered to do basic moderating doesn't give a rat shite about this occurring, and also it's clear that there's absolutely nothing whatsoever that I can do to stop y'all from f**cking with my words.

Preserved for the record.

There is a line, it was crossed in this thread in the first post.

Although Cliff and I are not in agreement on some things, I'll admit he's a better man than I am in this regard. Posts like this would not go by unresponded to. I hate house work, this can be verified by my wife. But, there are times one must take out the garbage. I'm not encouraging Cliff to do anything, I'm just saying it's most likely a good thing I'm not the moderator.

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Ron
The key thing is to wake up breathing! All the rest can be fixed. (Except Stupid - You can't fix that)

This is ****ing hilarious.

Ok, first, "manpon" ROFLMAO that's funny right there.

Second, someone needs a time out. Generally speaking Jazz,I like you.we don't agree on everything and that's ok, I think most here know that about me. But dude, seriously? Do you *really* think referring to Cliff that way is called for? Like most here, I don't agree with him about everything, but I have to have a great deal of respect for him the way he lets the forum mainly self-moderate.

I'm pretty sure if he were a more "active" mod, most of us would have been booted long ago, including you.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan, paraphrased by FieroRumor: People like to twist my words to bug me

Probably true. I've done the "hit the quote button and edit what the person said" thing, but mostly in jest.

You seem to get get ticked off at this place, and the people who frequent it

If you don't like the way things are, then why come back? Why keep arguing and fighting and wasting your time?

I'm not saying you should leave, I just don't see why you'd want to stay, if it's not a positve experience?

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I called the Moderater a POS

Wow. That s not cool.. Cliff runs a forum. he also has a life. I feel bad when the fleas keep trying to bug the dog all the time. He's got a bone to bury and some squirrels to chase. Geez.

I don't think youand others that b1tch and complain actually realize he's got better things to do then to sit in front of his computer and get that deeply involved with all of our lives and personal hangups and other BS! the "waaa waaa waa" stuff. He's got more important priorities. Many here are glad he keeps this place online and available, and (with the proper filters in place), FUN .People who bicker with each other on here bring the whole place down.
It gets old fast

I'm not telling you what to do or say. Sorry you don't like certain things about this place. I've enjoyed your technical threads, and some of your OT stuff, but chewing out the Moderator isn't cool, man.

I haven't seen where they butcher your words, I usually jump out of a thread when it gets "stupid".

Real Life's annoying enough, Damed if I wanna waste much time sifting through annoying banter online.

Too bad there isn't an "ignore this person and all their threads and replies" option. That way, if someone trolled you with assinine comments and quote- twisting, you wouldn't even have to see it. (might make the thread 'read' a bit weird, but you wouldn't need to deal with those you don't like.)

TGIF

I'd say more but...my Mom just pooped in her diaper and I gotta go change it.

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: I know but he did bring up the point of escalation... Which happens very quickly between the lovely pair I used as an example. It usually starts there and ends up with name calling and false (I hope) accusations about the other user's character or ethics. Someone has to put an end to it before it gets out of hand. Thats what the post several above this one hinted at.

Okay, I thought maybe you had the wrong idea of what he was talking about. I was wrong, thank you for the clarification.

The thing is, alot of times the quoting is done, with either no real suppporting view or some lame ramble of character attack. What is it reffered to on here so much as "Deflection 101" or something like that? It makes the person doing the edit look foolish. I can't argue the point so I'll just mince up your words and mock you, really is not the best way to approach a debate and try to convince others that your view is the more correct one. Like I said, I don't really care if they do it, so long as it's obvious it was done. The strike through words is a good indication. It really gives you a idea of the mentality of that poster should you choose to read anything else they posted below the altered quote. I guess what I'm getting at is the altered quotes to me are pot shots because the poster lacks the ability to debate the point and would rather try to degrade the point.

That's just my take on it and my thoughts may not be shared by others.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 12-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Preserved for the record.

Good plan, given the subject's history of "pick up his toys and go home" actions.

Jazzman, grow the hell up and quit whining about people you don't like.

If you can't get along with people, and it is just certain people (who're you're very willing to name, apparently), then ignore their posts.

This "well, they're not being punished for it, so that makes it ok if I do it, right?" crap is something you should've outgrown around the age of 5.

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Nick www.naskie18.com GoogleTalk: naskie18 AIM: naskie18

Jazzman calls Cliff out, basically calling him (or his PFF role) of moderator " POS "

Maybe what he means is Cliff Pennock is ... a, "Polite 'Ol Statesman."

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 12-09-2011).]

All together now....



I've got a teapot if you've got a tempest.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 12-09-2011).]