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Caddy 4.9 Turbo in the making by Her86GT
Started on: 11-06-2002 08:34 PM
Replies: 316
Last post by: jscott1 on 07-10-2005 02:32 PM
Her86GT
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Report this Post12-28-2002 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post
Here are some pics from the dyno test:

PBJ trying to figure out a noise

On the dyno making lots of noise!

PBJ trying to read if the turbo is putting out boost

What the computer said my car was doing at idle

Here are my gauges in their temporary location

[This message has been edited by Her86GT (edited 12-28-2002).]

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Report this Post12-28-2002 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for StandardClick Here to visit Standard's HomePageClick Here to Email StandardSend a Private Message to StandardDirect Link to This Post
.2 ft/lb's of torque! must be a screamer!

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Report this Post12-28-2002 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
an update: I had it on the dyno today for about 20 min. Found that the rebuilt trans goes through all the gears and set the TV cable position lenght.

The dyno was not set to simulate load, just to allow the wheels to spin. So was not for hp output, that will be done at Carlisle in the spring. We just wanted to burn off alot of chemicals and oils from the new exhaust and wrap. Which really smells up the shop.

Checked out the block learn cells for fuel management, and reported to Rockcrawl on the findings.

The physical work is mainly done other than "cleaning it up" with water injection at/above 4 psi. As far as tuning, I suspect we are about 5% done-it runs

Pete

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Report this Post12-29-2002 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tdanielyClick Here to visit tdaniely's HomePageClick Here to Email tdanielySend a Private Message to tdanielyDirect Link to This Post
PBJ or Herbert.

Could you please drop me a line at tdaniely@yahoo.com

I am very interesed in knowing more about this setup, as I just finished the 4.9L X-11 (http://home.attbi.com/~tdaniely/new_page_2.htm) and would like to try a turbo setup on my vehicle as well. I am good friends with Rockcrawl, so hopefully he's work with me on another chip

Also, check out my 3800SC Citation (http://home.attbi.com/~tmccload)

What I'd like to know is do you have all the photos you've shown in a higher resolution format ? If so, I can provide you with my FTP server's IP address so that you can upload the images. I'd like to keep a photo record of the turbo 4.9L

THANKS

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Report this Post12-30-2002 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGTTClick Here to visit FieroGTT's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroGTTSend a Private Message to FieroGTTDirect Link to This Post
I'd like to keep this at the top. Do you think you could let slip at least what turbo you are using?

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Report this Post12-30-2002 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rockcrawlClick Here to visit rockcrawl's HomePageClick Here to Email rockcrawlSend a Private Message to rockcrawlDirect Link to This Post
I'm getting anxious now. I leave for Canada on Wed morning. A 10 hour drive in the Cadero should be quite a trip! I still need to pack up all my programming gear and lots of extra EPROMs I can't wait to see what this car can do.
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Report this Post12-31-2002 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for westtexasSend a Private Message to westtexasDirect Link to This Post
Rockcrawl, have a good, safe trip. Perhaps with water injection and high octane gas 275 hp will be possible. That would make the 4.9 my dream swap.

Pete and Becky, you have my admiration. Some said this couldn't be done, good luck!

Robert

[This message has been edited by westtexas (edited 12-31-2002).]

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Report this Post12-31-2002 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by westtexas:


Pete and Becky, you have my admiration. Some said this couldn't be done, good luck!

Robert

Thank you for the comment. I will get lots of pics once Jon gets here. And people make fun of how much I use my new digital camera . . .but at least it gives those who can't be here a visual of the project and and inside look at what is involved to do a 4.9 Turbo.

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Report this Post12-31-2002 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rockcrawl:

I can't wait to see what this car can do.

Neither can I But no pressure. . .heheh

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Report this Post12-31-2002 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ws6fieroClick Here to visit ws6fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email ws6fieroSend a Private Message to ws6fieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Her86GT:

...people make fun of how much I use my new digital camera . . .but at least it gives those who can't be here a visual...


Keep on clicking :-)

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Her86GT
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Report this Post01-01-2003 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post
Jon got here in great time. Here are some pics of them setting up the prom-burner:

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Report this Post01-02-2003 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post
Well, they started tuning the car today. I would post pics but the batteries died on the camera so I have to wait until they recharge.
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Report this Post01-03-2003 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86 gt fastbackSend a Private Message to 86 gt fastbackDirect Link to This Post
we are waiting for some numbers

hans

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Report this Post01-03-2003 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidDirect Link to This Post
Ya got to love it when a plan comes together!!!

Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress.

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Report this Post01-03-2003 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGTTClick Here to visit FieroGTT's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroGTTSend a Private Message to FieroGTTDirect Link to This Post
Keep us posted with any information you're willing to give.
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Report this Post01-04-2003 01:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rockcrawlClick Here to visit rockcrawl's HomePageClick Here to Email rockcrawlSend a Private Message to rockcrawlDirect Link to This Post
The good news is that my car made it up here without any troubles. 26.4 MPG with the 3.43:1 4T60E and a 4.9. It ran wonderfully.

The bad news is that we're having difficulty tuning the SyTy ECM for the 4.9. I'm new to this ECM and it's taking a bit more work than I expected.

[This message has been edited by rockcrawl (edited 01-04-2003).]

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Report this Post01-04-2003 01:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stevenrossiClick Here to Email stevenrossiSend a Private Message to stevenrossiDirect Link to This Post
we've all got faith that you'll get that hissing beast up and running no sweat

Keep us posted...and get some pics

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Report this Post01-04-2003 01:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post
Here are some pics of the tuning process. So they got the computer all set up and began the long process to get my car going.


Coming back from a test drive (just before the snow storm began).

Jon doing his thing. . .

Just the beginning of the thinking game.

[This message has been edited by Her86GT (edited 01-04-2003).]

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Report this Post01-04-2003 02:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post

Stunk up the shop quite good. They set off the carbon monoxide detector only 3 times. . .

And more figuring. . .

Ok, we're a bit stumped here.

So my car started coming apart (only a little)

And to top the day, my car over heats and dumps coolant everywhere (notice the fan not set up in front YET)

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Her86GT
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Report this Post01-04-2003 02:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post

Her86GT

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So back to buring prom after prom.

So they started a trouble tree of what isn't the problem.

My engine as of today. A little tired but still in shape for tomorrow's tune session.

No matter how many pics I took, Jon still didn't want to be in them

Well it's a project indeed. As Pete would say, "If it was easy, my sister would have done this to her car a long time ago."

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Report this Post01-04-2003 02:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTFiero1Click Here to Email GTFiero1Send a Private Message to GTFiero1Direct Link to This Post
How come hes holding a TBI unit though your car is PFI?
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Report this Post01-04-2003 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rockcrawlClick Here to visit rockcrawl's HomePageClick Here to Email rockcrawlSend a Private Message to rockcrawlDirect Link to This Post
We use a TBI with the injectors removed. The Caddilac MPFI thottle body doesn't have the IAC that we need for the 7730/7749 ECM.

We drove the car today with boost. It feels pretty good but it still needs lots of work.

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Report this Post01-04-2003 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGTTClick Here to visit FieroGTT's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroGTTSend a Private Message to FieroGTTDirect Link to This Post
What wiring harness are you using or what harnesses did you cut up to make the one you are using? Syclone? Typhoon? Deville? Fiero? All 4?
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Report this Post01-04-2003 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Her86GTClick Here to visit Her86GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Her86GTSend a Private Message to Her86GTDirect Link to This Post
Well, they got it home today. The gauge read just over 5 lbs boost and they said there was a difference in the torque off the line and all the way through. I'm not getting too exicted yet but I'm told it WILL work 100% come spring.

[This message has been edited by Her86GT (edited 01-04-2003).]

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Report this Post01-05-2003 12:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
Well, we had a lot of hurdles to jump in not very many days. But we ended with some very good sucesses.

We drove a Turbo 4.9 MPI Fiero with just over 5psi boost on Saturday. The engine pulled great right from a stop like always. The biggest area of difference I felt was the latteral accelleration after especially higher rpm. Anyone who has driven a 4.9 Fiero has noticed that the engine has a huge jump from a stop and as the rpm goes up above high 3000 rpm its pull starts dropping. Well, not any more on Her86GT's Fiero. It pulls hard all the way until it shifts and when it shifts, it does it all over again smooth as can be.

Whats next? The ecm we have gone with to run the 4.9 is the faithful 730, with the use of a knock sensor and the abilites Rockcrawl has in adjusting acceleration and other fuel management tables. He has the vehicle set up preliminarily. Likely, he/we will have some fine tuning to do later when the weather is more suited for driving. As for spark retard, he has the attack rate of the ecm aggressive because with the 730 ecm, I will have to install a MSD timing boost controler to cut timing under boost before we have to rely on the ecm to attack detination.

The water injection system was hooked up for a couple of boosted acceleration, but it's too soon to tell if there will be any benefits at 5 psi.

Over all, "we did good". Mechanically it's done and needs "cleaning up" in appearance. Electrically, we can continue tuning when we have installed the MSD timing controler and when we can drive the vehicle in the warmer weather.

Thanks again Jon!!!

Pete

Ps. as for wiring harness, its all made from scratch using the factory connector ends.

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Report this Post01-05-2003 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Howard_SacksClick Here to visit Howard_Sacks's HomePageClick Here to Email Howard_SacksSend a Private Message to Howard_SacksDirect Link to This Post
Jon's the man. I'm sure together you guys will get it figured out.

Are you still using the 1-bar map with the 730?

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Report this Post01-05-2003 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Santa CruzerClick Here to Email Santa CruzerSend a Private Message to Santa CruzerDirect Link to This Post
Hope everything works out good,your car is looking nice

------------------
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www.2m6performance.tk
Let me tell you what Melba Toast is packin' right here, alright. We got 411 Positrac outback, 750 double pumper Edelbrock intakes, bored over 30, 11 to 1 pop-up pistons, turbo-jet 390 horsepower. We're talkin' some fu*kin' muscle!

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Report this Post01-05-2003 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Howard_Sacks:

Are you still using the 1-bar map with the 730?

Yes, the 730 uses the 1-bar map sensor but the add-on boost timing controller has its own built in map sensor. Fuel enrichment on the 730 was done with acceleration mode rather than map pressure.

Pete

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Report this Post01-05-2003 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stevenrossiClick Here to Email stevenrossiSend a Private Message to stevenrossiDirect Link to This Post
Very happy to hear that you got a 5psi boost going on that engine. Much better then NAAWWWZZZ if you ask me. I think you'd probably get better gas mileage and emissions from this upgrade

What numbers do you estamate at the wheeles now? Just ball parked

~Steve-O~

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Report this Post01-05-2003 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGTTClick Here to visit FieroGTT's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroGTTSend a Private Message to FieroGTTDirect Link to This Post
So is that a T44 turbo?
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Report this Post01-05-2003 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
The turbo is a Warner Ishi Turbo for GM 6.5L (GM4)
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Report this Post01-05-2003 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post

PBJ

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quote
Originally posted by stevenrossi:

What numbers do you estamate at the wheeles now? Just ball parked

~Steve-O~

The forum is not usually an estimate happy environment. I can only tell you that the pull does not drop off at all. So I don't want to even guess what the "numbers" are going to be at this time. I'm hoping to see over 200 at the rear wheels in Carlisle.

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Report this Post01-05-2003 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Slammed FieroSend a Private Message to Slammed FieroDirect Link to This Post
Truly Impresive.

What do you figure the stock pistons can handle boost wise?


JM

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Report this Post01-05-2003 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed Fiero:

What do you figure the stock pistons can handle boost wise?

JM

Maybe 2 maybe 10. I'll let you know in a year if it can handle 5psi.

Pete


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Report this Post01-06-2003 01:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGTTClick Here to visit FieroGTT's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroGTTSend a Private Message to FieroGTTDirect Link to This Post
What made you choose the GM4? Did you have one laying around or do you think it was the best suited to the engine? It thought it was kinda big for the 4.9. So I guess now that the mechanical part is done, that means "The List" of parts and cars that went into this project will be released....right?
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Report this Post01-06-2003 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
I did have the turbo available, I also made some phone calls to find if this turbo was ever used on some gas engines. It has been used with good results on a 5.0L mustangs.
Also the 6.5L engine is approx 400ci and redlines at 3500 rpm, the 4.9 is approx 300 ci and redlines at 4800 rpm, at wide open throttle at redline both engines are using the same amount of air-so I thought, lets try it.

As it turns out at maximum boost we were able to get is over 5psi, The boost came up and maxed out around 3000 rpm. We still need a better gasket on top of throttle plate-is blowing through. I suspect we will see 7 psi once ignition timing is finalized under boost and leak sealed. As for waste gate and control, is built in to 6.5 turbo housing and will have to be controled mechanically if I stick with the 730 ecm. So I will have to install a waste gate control actuator from a turbo dodge 2.2.

SO what I am saying, if you are trying to build a 4.9 turbo before this summer and you want more than 5 psi boost you will need to pick a different turbo or see if the 6.5 turbo has different head/turbines avail.

The deville crossover pipe was cut and custom turbo flange was adapted in. The turbo oil feed line is the stock 6.5 oil feed line. The oil return line is bulk high temp 3/4 inch hose to oil pan. Exhaust out is crazy custom-best of luck.

Hope this helps

Pete

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Report this Post01-06-2003 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Slammed FieroSend a Private Message to Slammed FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroGTT:

What made you choose the GM4? Did you have one laying around or do you think it was the best suited to the engine? It thought it was kinda big for the 4.9. So I guess now that the mechanical part is done, that means "The List" of parts and cars that went into this project will be released....right?

I could be wrong but...

The last thing a 4.9 "torque Monster" needs is a turbo that is suited better to low end performance. If he had went with a small turbo you would get a package that would merely aplify the low end grunt characteristics of the 4.9. If you read through his posts he says that power starts falling off the higher the RPM's get. The larger turbo will probably be able to offset this occurence.

Larger turbo's are more efficient than a small turbo that would spool quick and simply blow hot air. There's no real worry about lag , the engine makes more than enough power until the turbo comes online.

Just my 2 cents

JM

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Report this Post01-06-2003 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
Slammed Fiero, well put! That is exactly what we thought too.

Pete

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Report this Post01-06-2003 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroGTTClick Here to visit FieroGTT's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroGTTSend a Private Message to FieroGTTDirect Link to This Post
Is the crossover pipe the only thing holding the turbo up? 5-7 PSI is really all I would go for anyway on a stock 4.9. I was thinking mainly of space constraints as well as price. The GM4 is a pricey unit. Does anyone know of a similar flowing yet less expensive or smaller unit? Are you using a compressor bypass valve?
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Report this Post01-06-2003 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJDirect Link to This Post
The turbo is held up by a 90 Deg bracket with the crossover triangulating for support and alowing movement of exhaust for expansion/contraction with heat. I am going to install/fabricate an adjustable pressure relief valve between the turbo and throttle plate.

The turbo companies I was talking with recommended a T4.

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