Ok, some of you may know I've been waiting since last year to get my Fiero into my regular body shop for much needed paint. Well, I am a certified master tech and own a shop, but I have absolutely no body experience, but I think I am capable of doing body work due to my OCD...it makes me a perfectionist to the extreme.
Anyway, the body shop will never get another referral from me...apparantly I've helped make him too busy.
Now here is my dilemma. I've searched the forums, but I am majorly confused. Everyone has a different method and different type of spray gun.
I have decided that I will do the paint job with the body off the car. I have plenty of room and I am changing the color, so I don't want to miss anything. I am a beginner, so what kind of spray gun should I buy. I was looking at a suction HVLP gun, but some people say get a gravity fed gun and stay away from the HVLP because I don't have the experience at painting to be able to use one of those. Also, when I go into buy the paint, how do I tell the paint place what I want? I was going to paint her Corvette yellow, but yellow is hard to get right on your first paint job. I have decided to go with BMW titanium silver.
I also need help on what kind of primer to buy. The hood was done by a body guy in white primer a few months ago.
Anything I should know, let me know. How long of a time frame will this take to get it right?
So basically,
what kind of gun and why?
what kind of primer?
time frame to expect?
anything I should know as I have no experience?
How do I buy paint? by code? what do I say when I go to the store?
Here are two current pics of the car.


Dave

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1999 Mercedes ML430, 450hp 1987 Fiero GT, 1986 Fiero SE-soon to be 3800, certified master technician

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 06-02-2007).]

i am not painting expert but i did prime my own car and will probably finishing painting it myself.
i would check out www.autobody101.com to help you decide on what painting supplies you need.
from there i found my self at www.southernpolyurethanes.com/homepage.htm the guy Barry Kives who is the owner
i think is very helpful and will give you his phone # to call if you have any questions. that is what i
call customer services. his primer products are very good but he has a very limited choice of base
coats.
after gathering information from these websites i bought myself two paint guns (package deal)
Astro Evo LVLP 4018 and 4014. 4018 i used for primer (1.8) tip the other has a 1.4 tip.
when i decide to finish my paint job i'll probably break down a get myself a good paint gun.

read all you can cause it does take time.

[This message has been edited by Tom Slick (edited 06-02-2007).]

I use a HVLP gravity gun. I use a DeVillbis gravity feed gun and there is nothing about experience to determine whether to use a gravity feed or suction feed. The gravity feed uses less air pressure and material and you have a much finer adjustment range to spray into small tight areas such as the rear bumper pockets for the reflectors. You need to drop your air pressure very low to get the material in there for paint coverage or the air pattern will just swirl and not get the paint onto the surface.

Get yourself a good quality primer/surfacer if the bodywork is completed. If you need to fix scratches and other damage, use a primer/surfacer that's catalyzed. You don't need epoxy, just catalyzed. Catalyzed primer won't shrink over time which will eventually show scratches in the bodywork. I use PPG primers and paints, but I'm spraying show finishes and I prefer to use this brand, but there are other brands that are excellent quality also. If you aer spraying yellow, you'll need to use a white primer as a final color before paint.

Time frame? That's very hard to say because what might take an hour for me to do may take you 2 hours. Body removal, taping, priming, sanding......there are many variables on time. But, just an off the collar guess, I'd say at least 3 weeks depending on how much time you dedicate for the job.

There are a lot of things to know about painting and prep. You'll need to do a search and go through a bunch of painting posts, but if you still can't find the info you are looking for, let us know and we'll help you out with anything you couldn't find.

How to buy paint? You'll need to find a paint dealer close to home and talk to the paint guys behind the counter and they'll help you out with getting the proper color and accompanying materials ( thinners, hardeners, reducers.....). If you are going to spray the yellow, they'll pull out the color chip books and show you the Corvette yellows they have. Tell them you are new to the painting world and they'll help you out. You might want to call ahead and ask when the best time to go in would be so you don't tie up one of the counter guys during a peak busy time. Then they can explain what's happening and make sure you have the right materials and safety equipment ( resperators, hoods, eyewear.......).

LOTS of diff ways to go about it all

First you have a shop so you have an adequate compressor. Go with an HVLP gravity gun. I do have an expensive siphon HVLP gun (over $500) that I use strictly for clearcoats because it uses so little material and less overspray that a spray can. I can do 2 clear coats on a Lincoln with 1 quart of clear. Price is up to you, they run from $40 at Harbor Frieght to several hundred for a brand name. They all basicly work the same, so its really your choice just like all tvs play tv.

Primer is your choice, talk to people and find out the plus and minus of any. 2 part primers are great for sealing in all the bad stuff and give a thick film but they cost much more. You have to remove it and clean gun after each use or it ruins the gun. Laquer primer/ surfacers can be left in the gun and used over and over as needed and are cheap...but may not be available where you live. Some say 2 part primers are best for flexible parts. In actuallity primers for flexible parts like bumper covers are water based latex, but thats not a big deal. I use only laquer myself on everything and havent ever had a problem with flexible or hard surfaces. You do have to keep the prepared primer thickness to a bare minimum. I very rarely use any primer that is gray. Something (and Ive argued with reps over this) in the gray as opposed to black, red oxide, etc has a detrimental effect on finish paint adhesion. Base colors after a number of years seem to always start peeling off in big pieces. THis never happens with red. There are also primers you can add color to, to make them close to your finish color. Some of the ricers actually just use colored primer for their finished job. Make sure the primer you get is a surfacer that you can sand body defects out of...and NOT a sealer. They sometimes look the same, but do different things.

I always recommend that you look for actual cars the color you want and get their paint code that is specific on that car. Thats all the paint store needs to know. On Fords and Chrysler products that code is usually at the bottom line of the manufactures sticker on the drivers door. Late model Ford is usually 2 digits (ie UA), Chrysler is usually 3 digits (ie PW7). GMs tag is usually in the trunk, on the bottom of the spare tire cover or along the inside of the trunk lid or quarter panel with a different set of numbers (ie 75U....or WA#8555, or 396). The numbers will be different but in one of those 3 formats. Dont ever trust the color you see on computer screen or paint store chip sample.

Any yellow should be prepared by shooting the car completely in WHITE first, covering it well. Corvette yellow (millinieum)and Charger yellow (Top Banana) use a special lite gray instead. Other yellows may be similar. When you order those paints, it will be called a 3 stage because you buy the gray base, then the yellow color, and the top clear. You can cover with another yellow without doing it white, but usually it will take much more paint to cover it. 2 Stage paint is just a base color (say black) and a clear topcoat. Basecoat colors always dry with little or no sheen until their cleared. Use the same brands if at all possible thruout the job to insure compatability. A lot of basecolors will not accept some clears for example. If your going with silver, buy an equal amount of a lite gray to spray first. Some silvers are slow to cover. I use a lot of Lincoln ' Dove Gray' for a precoat on customer silver cars. I may use a light coat of gray primer on a dealers lot car instead.

Time is really what you put into it, actual painting is the fast part. You may spend weeks sanding and shaping and painting is done in a matter of a few hours. It generally takes me 15-20 minutes to spray an entire single coat, with maybe 15 mins of flash time between coats ( I just wait long enough for the entire coat to dull). I follow immediately with the clear. I put usually 2 coats of each. If you wait too long to clear it, the clear may not adhere to the color well. *tip...the longer you take to do the spraying, the longer the chance of defects like bugs or dust, getting into the finish. I paint all the parts together whether on or off the car so the color is kept the same. Just changes in weather or diff cans can change their hue. If you buy them in say quart cans, mix all of them together before spraying so color is sure to be uniform. Painting the car apart will use much more material than it would assembled. I have used enough paint to do a Lincoln on a motorcycle because of all the waste. Even if the salesmen try to sell you Flex Agent, you DONT need it at all if your using a basecoat / clearcoat urathane.

When your sanding the body, either keep your other hand off the body, wear latex glove, or keep it dusty so you wont transfer skin oils to the surface. That and oil will cause 'fisheyes' in the paint as your shooting it. There little craters in the final paint. If you get any, sand and respray those spots LIGHTLY with color till they are smooth. If in the clear, you just have to live with them and hope they sand out by final color sanding. The very first thing you want to do in prep is thoughly wash the entire car very well with DAWN dish soap in a strong solution. I prefer to wash it using a red scotchbrite pad with also presands it as you clean. I dont have much faith in the so called 'wax and grease' removers. Ive had jobs messed up because of using them. If you want to wash it down, I much prefer to wiping it down with enamel reducer one panel at a time. Some of the removers actually have kerosene components in them, while reducers will not.

You will need no finer than 360 or 400 paper to sand prior to paint. Thats if your using base/clear, which dont get a good surface bond with finer. You DONT have to remove all the paint to repaint. The only time you need to do that is if their are problems, like peeling, flaking or cracked paint or if its been painted several times before. Cracks in bumper covers MUST be sanded to bare part including the factory primer or they will pop thru again. I prefer dry sanding prior to paint as you can see what your doing and wont miss a spot, and it wont leave hidden water that will drip out on your last finish coat. In prep sanding all wet sanding really does is save how much sandpaper you use.

I did my Corvette with no body work by washing, sanding, masking the day before thanksgiving. Painted base, pearle and cleared thankgiving day, color sanded and buffed the next day. All total I prob had maybe 20 hours in the whole job. Materials were a few rolls of tape (use good 3M), masking paper (dont recommend newspaper ESPECIALLY WITH 2 TONEING), 1 quart of base white (white OEM to begin with), 1 pint of pearlcoat, and a pint of red (for flamed stripes), 1 quart of clear plus the associated reducers for each. Ive won best paint at several all Corvette shows since. Obviously this was a body together paint job. Only removed headlite covers to get both sides. My theory is if you cant ever see it, why paint the back of it. Careful masking will look just as good as taking it apart.

Others may have a diff way of doing any or all of the above, but those are my recommendations to someone who hasnt tried before. Lastly and MOST IMPORTANT; get some old panels or scrap material to practice spraying on to get the technique that suits you. Everyone uses diff setting on the gun and the way they actually spray it. Spraying the primer is some good experience on how you need to adjust your technique and gun. I usually spray with a little higher air pressure and really close to the surface compared to others Ive seen. I open the fluid control all the way back for example and few others I know do that. I do it because I can flood the surface as it sprays and get a very smooth finish right out of the box. Most repairs for dealer and regular cars are good with just a minor buffing after if anything at all. High line cars get color sanded and a deep buffing so there are no visible defects. Ive even had a few customers, one with a Porsche, complain that now he had to have the car detailed because my paint was better than the original, lol.

Good luck.

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Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body...
specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 40+ years
Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Approved

what kind of gun and why?
* I think you'll find Sharpe the only *good* gun reasonably priced. Whether you go with a siphon feed or gravity feed is a matter of personal preference.

what kind of primer?
*Epoxy is the only way to go - if you want the paint to stick & be flexible.

time frame to expect?
* I'd give it at least a month.

anything I should know as I have no experience?
* Books have been written: read all you can.

How do I buy paint? by code? what do I say when I go to the store?
* As mentioned the paint store will have chips for you to pick out a color. Best to see it on a car: find a 'Vette the color you want & get the *year* mainly & the code if you can. Yellow is no harder to paint than anything else.

HTH,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective.

Dont use your shop compressor ! It is most likely an oil type to lube your air tools. The last thing you need is to mix oil your paint. Rent an oiless compressor ro buy a small one and if you use low pressure garvity feed it should surfice. I'm in the boat, I'm going to be painting my 87GT soon and will have to use our small portable unit, my giant compressor uses oil. Remember, prep is near-everything!

BTW: For anyone in Fredericksburg Va, area we theve a Macco here that does great work (if you prep the car good first). The guy is unreal for the money, no orange peel or runs etc etc. I'm doing my own because I want to do some special things, else I'd have him do it. That was not by any means a plug for all Maccos, the owner before him did horriable work!

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[IMG]



Trueleo.com/fiero.htm
RSpiderII@aol.com

quote Originally posted by Francis T: Dont use your shop compressor ! It is most likely an oil type to lube your air tools. The last thing you need is to mix oil your paint.

The compressor doesn't mix in oil for the air tools. I installed a drier inline with the main air feed line to keep moisture out of the tools. We oil the tools directly prior to using at least once a year. It's shameful, but yes, I use my air tools for everything and only oil them once a year. I had my impact gun for ten years without a rebuild, too. Maybe it's the oil I use (MB 722.6 trans fluid)
Back to the topic at hand. I appreciate all the answers. I will be reading up on as much as possible and practicing on my old body panels. I've read and downloaded stuff from autobody 101-good site for the beginner. I'm going over to Harbor freight later this week to check out the spray guns.
Dave

I dont have an oiler either. Ive only worn out one cheap 3/8 rachet in 20 years. I oil tools just when I see the need myself. I had a DAQ sander I oiled daily and it quit in a year...not even worth rebuilding. I bought another just like it and oil it maybe once a year and its been goin fine for at least 5 now, lol. I put oil in My Ingerstol straight sander when it starts slowing down, or stops. Works good again for a few months. Sanders get the most wear and tear because theyre constantly bombarded with dust and dirt and oil just seems to make it pile up.

quote Dont use your shop compressor ! It is most likely an oil type to lube your air tools.

I think you're refering to the compressors that lube themselves with oil (oil in the crankcase). These I suppose can have oil blow-by on the piston(s) that would contaminate the air.

Bob

Should it take a year before the painter even starts to paint your car? My car has been in paint hell for two years such that I'm ready to learn how to paint myself. It's ridiculously hard to find a decent painter around here. I was ready to drag my car to Roger or Firefox because these local painters are unreliable.

You might consider prepping the car yourself, then taking it someplace just to have them "shoot" / paint it .

I was concidering putting an ad on Craigslist or asking the guy who did the front hood to paint the car at my shop. The guy who did the front hood does excellent body work and in my opinion is one of the best I've seen. He is just very busy. The regular body shop I use is top notch. One of my techs banged up a customer's newish Audi on a test drive and the body shop made the quarter panel look brand new in a week. I refer a lot of work to that shop including a Fiero from this forum and now it seems I am being blown off as well as that other Fiero. I also don't want my Fiero becoming a workbench at his shop. I feel that if done at my shop I will be under pressure to get it painted in a weekend (the prep will be done prior), so that I can get back to getting customer's cars done.
I also need to fiberglass a small scoop on the decklid to cover the carbs in the rain. Anyone have any good links for fiberglass for the beginner?
Dave

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: You might consider prepping the car yourself, then taking it someplace just to have them "shoot" / paint it .

That's what I would do, I'm sure if you found someone reputable (a dealership even) and explained to them that you will bring the body panels instead of the car ( it doesn't get any easier than that) prepped to their specifications with the help of your OCD, I believe they would find it much more attractive to do as well as time saving because there is no masking necessary. Expecting to have it done in a short time when you have no experience with it is a mistake, paint has a tendency to do its own thing after it leaves the gun.

Paint is also dangerous stuff to work with most of us DIYers have been exposed to enough chemicals already be it through inhaling or allowing it to be absorbed into the skin so be careful.

My father is a motor head and has Chronic pancreatitis, since he hadn't had a drink in 25 years at its onset I suspect gases from years of welding and skin exposure to the many chemicals used while building engines may have triggered it. (coincidently chemical absorption through the skin is one theory for it in non alcohol related cases). His lungs are in rough shape to, he still paints though. Hard headed I guess.

Oh yeah! Pancreatitis is an awful painful disease, he had to take early retirement because of it and sometimes is bed ridden from it. Lots of sick days.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-03-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Francis T: Dont use your shop compressor ! It is most likely an oil type to lube your air tools. The last thing you need is to mix oil your paint. Rent an oiless compressor ro buy a small one and if you use low pressure garvity feed it should surfice. I'm in the boat, I'm going to be painting my 87GT soon and will have to use our small portable unit, my giant compressor uses oil. Remember, prep is near-everything! BTW: For anyone in Fredericksburg Va, area we theve a Macco here that does great work (if you prep the car good first). The guy is unreal for the money, no orange peel or runs etc etc. I'm doing my own because I want to do some special things, else I'd have him do it. That was not by any means a plug for all Maccos, the owner before him did horriable work!

If you are getting oil out of hte compressor then something is wrong.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Should it take a year before the painter even starts to paint your car? My car has been in paint hell for two years such that I'm ready to learn how to paint myself. It's ridiculously hard to find a decent painter around here. I was ready to drag my car to Roger or Firefox because these local painters are unreliable.

All you have to do is stop by a Maaco or similar place and look at the jobs theyve done. One by me does a pretty good job AFTER I do the prep work. I dont get into all over jobs anymore because I just dont have the time and getting close to retireing (for good this time). They do all my dealer cars that need a complete job after ive done everything including final masking. I just cut a hole in a few windows and run it next door. I get it back in a few hours all dry and ready to deliver while im working on more intensive stuff. Its just a economical thing really. A Porsche owner will pay $2000 to have a fender dollyed out nearly perfect with a very small amount of filler and painted to match his original paint. I can spend 3 days just getting the fender right. Others dont want to spend $1000 to have 25 dents taken out and a complete repaint. Granted I dont always have a high end car here, but when they are, they get my full attention and priority. All the rest is just fill. So anyway, Ive seen a lot of very nice jobs from Maaco......and some pretty bad too. Its always easy to tell them to redo it if they screw it up. And be sure to tell them right up front you wont stand for overspray all over the interior, wheel wells or engine bay for example.

Many times I think of painting the car myself but then I read threads like this with all those details and specs in guns, paint, primers, etc. and then I get scared away. Would be nice to get a recipie that works in our cars like brand X gun with brand x primer and brand x paint for a basic red job on a common red car 9or red shade). Would that be possible? Tks

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Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed Yellow: Nitrous 3.4 + 4 speed Auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

Yes, that's kind of a tall order because the guns, products, and tech. are changing most of the time. I mean, just 15 years ago I was shooting straight PPG top shelf stuff with a Binks or DeVilbiss gun ( don't even remember the model numbers now!). Now expensive guns like Sata and Iwata are the norm, Sharpe's definitely in the running, and economy good guns are the Astro's. Gravity style has replaced almost all other delivery applications. As for quality coatings the small guys have come on strong and even PPG has economy lines like Omni that are darn good. SPI, Rubber Seal, and Motostorm, just to name a few make clears that are incredibly durable as well as easy to apply and their "depth of image" is outstanding. It's just hard to come up with a standard XYZ formula for painting a car (let alone these Fieros). You also have to dial in just how talented "you" are in this mix too as well as your budget.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/063985.html


we did it-

I painted the black one, first gold then black. Then I painted the red one.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/052684-3.html

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 06-07-2007).]

I'm taking the car to a Fiero meet next week. then off to the track before the end of the month. After that, I'll putter it around until Labor day weekend. That will be the weekend I paint the car. The prep will be done in the few weeks prior. I chose Labor day weekend because I will be able to close my shop up and build a temporary spray booth and get the car done in the three days. I'll post pics when the time gets closer.
I went to the local book store and bought some books and now I understand the theory better. Prior to painting the car, I will practice on some old Fiero body panels I have.
Dave

ok, I just wanted to update where I am at as of today with my car. I am starting to fiberglass a decklid scoop on that won't interfere with my webers and my louvers. I have just started sanding my car and filling in the low spots. If all goes well, I'll have it primed by the end of the month....as long as I can find time. My shop is 3x busier than normal right now....I can't complain, it helps pay for the hobbies. How long can I go between priming and painting? Also, how long is too long? I was told by a local body guy that I should clean the car with a chemical similiar to acetone...but not acetone. Any ideas of what I should use?
Dave

To busy to Paint own car! Didn't I hear that someplace before (From the paint shop). Painting takes alot of time and effort.
Keep at it and you will get er done.
Keep us posted on how things turn out.
Good Luck
Gary

Wax and grease remover like Acryla-Clean from PPG. Or the best stuff on earth Bestine. You can get it at an Art supply store. ABout $30 a gallon. It is a rubber cement thinner and remover, but it kills grease and wax instanly does not leave any residue and it will not hurt your primer or base coat at all. It kills teh wax and grease and that's it...oh and rubber cement.

quote Originally posted by GKDINC: To busy to Paint own car! Didn't I hear that someplace before (From the paint shop). Painting takes alot of time and effort. Keep at it and you will get er done. Keep us posted on how things turn out. Good Luck Gary

The body shop called me today to tell me they are very slow and can get my car in right away if i wanted. I told him I was going to paint it myself and if I screw up, that's what sandpaper is for.
I guess that''s what happens when I stop referring all my customers to him for body repairs...I found another body shop through a customer that is very friendly and told me to call with any questions I have...the owner of the body shop came out to my shop today to see the project and give his opinion knowing I am going to do the work myself.
Dave

If you pull out the front wheel wells you should be able to get to the clips that hold the side moulding on.

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: If you pull out the front wheel wells you should be able to get to the clips that hold the side moulding on.

Yeah, I haven't removed all the trim yet...I'm still having some fun driving it here and there. By the mid point in this month, the lights and trim should be completely removed. I am still pondering the idea of doing a panel off paint job.
Dave

sorry to interject but im looking to repaint the show trailer for my store (an old, two horse, horse trailer) and it has metal pannels on it is there anything different than about prep work, equipment and material then said before in this thread?

thanks

Yeah just ask your body shop supplier for a wax and grease remover and basically use it after each coat is sprayed.

When I paint any thing I wipe it down with a tack cloth you can get that at a paint store this picks up dust and lint. Wipe gently or you will rub the sticky stuff on your surface and rub in one direction. Like rub from right to left pick up the cloth and rub from right to left again. If you rub back over you might just rub the dust back on the car. Helps get some of that stubborn sanding dust off as well. Then I wipe the whole surface down with a lint free towel and Acryla-Clean or Bestine. I do this before primer after doing the initial pre-primer prep, and after primer is sanded smooth before the base coat, then again before clear coat. You never know when you put a greasy hand. elbow or thumb on the car while spraying. Nothing worse than fish-eye, or solvent crazing started by a grease spot.

Here is my car just rolled out of the booth after an evening of drying.


This was also a flip paint experiment for work. We were thinking about using flip paint on some of our products. It's ok. The color(s) have grown on me. Of course the flip paint didn't make it to our production products when my car was seen in the parkinglot that Monday.

here is another

[This message has been edited by Curlrup (edited 08-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by bmwguru:

Man you work fast! I should be done sanding mine by now but I'm not. Its just so hot, I can't sand for more then an hour at a time. I'm also really lazy. I should finish it up by mid next week. Your progress looks good. Still can't wait to see it in person.

BTW I drove my car alot with out any molding on and no cops did anything, looks terrible but its still fun.

[This message has been edited by Winkie (edited 08-02-2007).]

High metallic colors shouldnt be touched or even tacked on the final coat preceding the clear coat, especially silvers and golds. You run a high possiblity of 'streaking' the metallic particles on the surface and when you clear it, soon as you see it in the sun it can jump out at you and the only fix is a repaint. Not a problem with solid colors. I dont use any kind of wax/grease remover after I spray primer, some of those products even contain some oil themselves. I prefer to wipe down primer if necessary with a lint free cloth dampened with enamel reducer in one hand and a dry one in the other. Keeping your hands dusty with sanded primer while sanding it will prevent your hands from leaving body oils. Then wash hands thoughly and dry for final wipedown prior to spraying.

I decided that we are not going to paint it silver. I'm so sick of seeing silver cars in my shop. Every other BMW is silver.
Anyway, I am going to paint the top black and the bottom (below the trim) General Lee orange....if anyone knows the proper name for it.
Dave

I believe it is "Hugger" orange.

I think it'll turn out pretty nice. All the prepping seems to be nice and "clean" so far, or as far as one can tell from here. I have siphon feed, gravity feed and HVLP guns. I recommend using a HVLP gravity feed gun. It eliminates alot of overspray and the paint goes on soooooooo nice. You use less paint with a HVLP , well.........more paint goes on the car and less in the air.

I really wouldn't do a panel off paint job except for maybe one or two color coats, mainly to get into corners and edges you can't hit with the panels on the car. Especially if you have limited or no experience painting. It's REALLY hard to get every panel the exact same color, and nothing sucks worse than painting each panel and thinking your done, only to mount them and find that they don't match because you didn't get them all coated evenly.
Just my .02

Oh crap yeah what Roger said don't tack off metalics or you will streak the particles. Sorry I get ahead of myself sometimes.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: I really wouldn't do a panel off paint job except for maybe one or two color coats, mainly to get into corners and edges you can't hit with the panels on the car. Especially if you have limited or no experience painting. It's REALLY hard to get every panel the exact same color, and nothing sucks worse than painting each panel and thinking your done, only to mount them and find that they don't match because you didn't get them all coated evenly. Just my .02

Non-metalic colors are not a problem. With metalics all you have to do is hang the vertical panels & spray everything the same way & again - no problem.
Panel off is the ONLY way to go!
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

The United States is the only industrialized nation to *outlaw* hemp production.

The key to shooting enamel is to insure that you are using a thinner with the proper drying time. ALso be sure to use a hardner as this will allow color sanding and buffing to the final finish. I always use a very rich thinner as slow drying paint gives the best shine. Don't worry about a little orange peel when you spray. If you apply too much paint on the initial pas it will run. You'll be going around the car three times so the second or third shooting will melt in what might look like orange peel on the first pass. It's also important to have a clean floor and garage in which to spray. Sweep it out and wash the floor with a garden hose prior to painting as this will keep the dust down. Also after the car has been sanded and washed with prep sol, liberally use a tack rag to remove all risidual dust. This may seem like basic rules to follow but if they are neglected so will be the paint job. One last point , if the humidity is more than about 60% don't even paint as the paint will absorb the moisture from the air and change the color, sometimes even drastically. A day with 50% humidity or less is best and you do realize that you can't paint when the temperature is 96*F as it is today. Paint on a day with 70-79*F temps and you'll get a better result. I'm no expert but after painting about 8 cars, this is what has worked for me.
One last item, the facias should be first sprayed with plastic adhesion promoter, or the paint may not stick to them.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Non-metalic colors are not a problem. With metalics all you have to do is hang the vertical panels & spray everything the same way & again - no problem. Panel off is the ONLY way to go! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" The United States is the only industrialized nation to *outlaw* hemp production.

I shot mine plain white- poly base coat over grey primer. Panels off. Put it together and it looked like ass, every panel a different color. And it wasn't my first paint job.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: I shot mine plain white- poly base coat over grey primer. Panels off. Put it together and it looked like ass, every panel a different color. And it wasn't my first paint job.

I don't how you could possibly screw that up. I guess you just didn't put enough paint on it. You must have bought a color that was very translucent.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!