Had I posted anything REMOTELY resembling the title of this thread, I would have vanished forever. Yet Stan gets a pass, again and again, because the cool popular kids like him and even worse, agree with him.
Not that my little vote counts for much, but you wouldn't have been banned by me. And myself, never said i agreed or disagreed with Stan in general ( it goes both ways depending on what he said ), or like or dislike, but i would stand up for his right ( regardless of 'realities' to me its a right.. ) to say it. As well as anyone else.
Only way to get negatives from me, and a statement that it doesn't belong here, are unprovoked personal attacks and pornography.
EDIT: 5 pages of hate and still not in the can yet.. must be a record
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 02-06-2012).]
Imagine, for a moment, if instead of his usual targets (Muslims, gay people, the Chinese, etc), Stan was heaping his slurs on other groups. Handicapped people, kids with Autism, etc. I wonder how different this thread would be then?
Imagine, for a moment, if instead of his usual targets (Muslims, gay people, the Chinese, etc), Stan was heaping his slurs on other groups. Handicapped people, kids with Autism, etc. I wonder how different this thread would be then?
I bet not too different. Some would be offended and yell back, some would respect his rights, regardless of being offended or not.
I'm usually in agreement with "The Cool Kids" (as Boonie would say ),
I only refered to "The Kool Kids" as the ones at school. No relation to the political nickname going around, or any group here. Here, I refer to "The Usual Suspects", "The Elete", "The Rightous", "The Core". But never "The Kool Kids".
I actually have nothing against anyone being a part of those groups, it's the entitlements they think it affords them that tweeks my mellon. Like somehow the rules, including those of personal interaction, don't apply to them. Simply put, they think they're better then those outside thier group.
And if they asked, I probibly would have joined them, and "went along". That's how powerful the lure of acceptence is. And that fact probibly makes me worse then them, becouse I go in eyes-wide-open, knowing better. "Strong" is not always mearly "lifting stuff"....
When a group of co-workers at work start telling "negro" (I used the pretty word) jokes, do you repremand them, walk away, join in, laugh, or remain quite, there-by presenting the illusion that you are one of them? I'm not "strong" enough to answer that question here.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-06-2012).]
I only refered to "The Kool Kids" as the ones at school. No relation to the political nickname going around, or any group here. Here, I refer to "The Usual Suspects", "The Elete", "The Rightous", "The Core". But never "The Kool Kids".
I actually have nothing against anyone being a part of those groups, it's the entitlements they think it affords them that tweeks my mellon. Like somehow the rules, including those of personal interaction, don't apply to them. Simply put, they think they're better then those outside thier group.
And if they asked, I probibly would have joined them, and "went along". That's how powerful the lure of acceptence is. And that fact probibly makes me worse then them, becouse I go in eyes-wide-open, knowing better. "Strong" is not always mearly "lifting stuff"....
When a group of co-workers at work start telling "negro" (I used the pretty word) jokes, do you repremand them, walk away, join in, laugh, or remain quite, there-by presenting the illusion that you are one of them? I'm not "strong" enough to answer that question here.
Not me. I wanted to avoid the 'cool kids' when i was in school. they were stupid, obnoxious.. wanted no part of them so i was an intentional out-cast.
Of course these days kids like me get watched and accused of something or another and hauled away from the 'general population' since different is 'wrong' in this brave new world..
At work if my coworkers cross the line with jokes and such, i just leave. I rarely participate in that sort of stuff anyway as its not professional.
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 02-06-2012).]
I hate everyone wether what color, religion (or lack thereof), race, handicap, sexual orientation, how many kids they have, what gaming console they have, what kind of car they drive, etc..... the list goes on. Hate everyone for everything.......it'll work for ya.
Ok, let's not even get bogged down in the racist side.
There is at least one gay member here that I know of(and probably more if stats hold-I don't know, do we have a lot of republican congressmen on the forum?) that gets to read about how he's a child molester.
"because athiest,child moslesting queers"
I can't even begin to start dissecting his post, and what is right and wrong about it. I don't want to. It's crap.
Fine, I'll leave out the "I get the impression bs" part and make a clear and easy to follow statement: It's hate filled.
And after 3 pages, I'm left with the feeling that this **** is accepted in this membership. Is that true, or false. If its false, then do something about it.
I vote to ban Uhlanstan from the forum.
I ask others that agree to join.
Today, here and now, make a stand that despite personal feelings on whatever subject, we as a group will not tolerate racist, bigoted or prejudiced remarks from members of the forum.
And Cliff, I ask that this become a policy of the forum. I ask that this go above the rating system. I don't think a "majority rules" system, ie. ratings will achieve the desired result. I really think we should do something to make sure that ANY member be welcome.
OK FOR THE LAST TIME,
Everyone has a right to be here, irregardless of where they are from, or what their nationality is. Yes, that includes canadiens.
While you may want to "ban " Uhlanstan, unless the PFF god deterimines otherwise, he may be here awhile.
I seem to think there is a rule here about "attempting to talk about rate me/ban someone" too.
I seem to think there is a rule here about "attempting to talk about rate me/ban someone" too.
I'm sure there is. I myself believe that this goes beyond, "I just don't like this person" melodrama type affairs that such a rule would attempt to minimize. Feel free to disagree! In fact, my getting banned for this thread would actually make me laugh. It would be the ultimate proof of the point that I have attempted to make. This is twice this has been mentioned, so if what I've said has so offended you, then you know what you need to do.
I don't feel a need to placate a group of bigots by looking the other way.
Everyone has a right to be here, irregardless of where they are from, or what their nationality is. Yes, that includes canadiens.
Well, first of all... unless you're a hockey fan and you're referring to the Montreal Canadiens, it's Canadians.
Secondly, nobody is disputing that anybody "has a right to be here", but there are supposedly rules to follow if one wishes to participate in this forum. The Montreal Canadiens will sell tickets to anyone, even Texans, to go see their home games. However, you can't go to the game and crap in the seats and piss in the ear of the person sitting in front of you. There are rules to follow to make the experience of attending a game, or participating in a forum, pleasant for everyone, not just for the guys who wish to crap and piss on whomever they like.
I've already stated that Stan's posts make me laugh on occasion, but yes, they are often over the line in regards to what a "family" forum is all about. And I've also stated IMO that Stan isn't the worst offender.
Cliff Pennock has set in place certain Posting Rules for all members of this forum to abide by.
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this messageboard to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
I'd simply like to see these existing rules enforced.
So the question remains - How long do we give guys carte blanche here to act in whatever manner they wish, no matter whom they try to diminish in the process?
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-06-2012).]
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this messageboard to post any material which is:
knowingly false and/or defamatory inaccurate abusive (check) vulgar(check) hateful(check) harassing obscene(check) profane(check) sexually oriented(check) I think his list of offensive names for gay persons counts threatening invasive of a person's privacy or otherwise violative of any law
So, 6 of 12.
Impressive. How many could I pull off and still remain a member if I say, put up a picture of someone pissing on an american flag? You know, something a little closer to home for people. I can't imagine I'd have too many people fighting for my "right" of free expression. I think I'd go red, then banned within minutes.
[This message has been edited by Gridlock (edited 02-06-2012).]
You know as well as everybody else that the rules don't apply equally to everyone. Thats just the way it is, and neither you nor I nor anyone else can change it. This is a classic case of "love it or leave it." Thats probably one reason so many interesting people who used to post in T/OT seldom, if ever, come around anymore.
My advice: Just drop it.
(before YOU get banned.)
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 02-07-2012).]
You know as well as everybody else that the rules don't apply equally to everyone. Thats just the way it is, and neither you nor I nor anyone else can change it.
Well, let's make the situation absolutely clear then...
There are existing rules already in place that could be used to terminate forum members who continue to post offensive material.
However, for whatever reason these rules are not being enforced.
It has to do with muslims(which the last time I checked, weren't white) and the gay community.
It then expanded in terms of the excuses made for Stan to include illegal immigrants.
Nice try though.
Wow, you're not really serious, are you? THAT screams bigotry like I've never heard before... it's also MAJOR sterotyping too.
You are combinging TWO things... "Arabs" and "Muslims."
For your information, arabs or middle easterners were the FIRST Christians. There's a huge country made up almost entirely of arabs that are Christian... ever heard of Armenia? There's also a huge population of Christians in Iran, Pakistan, and Iraq. There are even Christians in Egypt (they're known as Coptic Egyptians).
In Pakistan... whome are Middle Eastern, there are Hindus, and Muslims... they both look the same.
There are also white Muslims, and there are black Muslims.
Seriously... that was pretty dumb of you. Not trying to be a jerk, but for someone who's so concerned with "racism" when you mean bigotry, you made a TOTALLY HUGE bigot comment.
THAT screams bigotry like I've never heard before... it's also MAJOR sterotyping too.
So you're all bent out of shape because Gridlock makes a generalization which is not the least bit derogatory, yet Stan gets a free pass with whatever he wishes to post?
quote
Originally posted by uhlanstan:
...child moslesting queers and care Moslems ...atheist queers and Moslems ...queer trash & Moslem scum
(I have no idea what "care Moslems" are, but I imagine it must be something awful.)
The apparent double-standard in this forum is truly remarkable.
Both racism and bigotry flourished so long for only one reason. People--often, otherwise good people-- allowed it to. They simply accepted it and said "that's just the way things are". I heard it all the time I was growing up, and even afterwards.
You know as well as everybody else that the rules don't apply equally to everyone. Thats just the way it is, and neither you nor I nor anyone else can change it. This is a classic case of "love it or leave it." Thats probably one reason so many interesting people who used to post in T/OT seldom, if ever, come around anymore.
My advice: Just drop it.
(before YOU get banned.)
You know, that's sad. That's really sad that someone even feels a need to warn me that I could be banned for this-effectively for not following a majority. In this section, its made for a much more negative experience. You have a room where the majority serves as both preacher and choir. Any dissenting opinion has been rooted out. Right now, there are no less than 15 goddamned threads about how Obama is the anti-christ.
I miss a lot of the older off topic people. I think I finally understand what makes people go increasingly vocal until the majority bans them. You just get to the point where you don't care not to. I'm so there, right now.
I used to enjoy having a good debate on this site. Now, if you express a dissenting opinion, you get pummeled to the point where you think before you hit, "post reply", is this worth it?
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Wow, you're not really serious, are you? THAT screams bigotry like I've never heard before... it's also MAJOR sterotyping too.
You are combinging TWO things... "Arabs" and "Muslims."
For your information, arabs or middle easterners were the FIRST Christians. There's a huge country made up almost entirely of arabs that are Christian... ever heard of Armenia? There's also a huge population of Christians in Iran, Pakistan, and Iraq. There are even Christians in Egypt (they're known as Coptic Egyptians).
In Pakistan... whome are Middle Eastern, there are Hindus, and Muslims... they both look the same.
There are also white Muslims, and there are black Muslims.
Seriously... that was pretty dumb of you. Not trying to be a jerk, but for someone who's so concerned with "racism" when you mean bigotry, you made a TOTALLY HUGE bigot comment.
Have you rated Gridlock negative? If not, do so today!
Originally posted by Gridlock: Impressive. How many could I pull off and still remain a member if I say, put up a picture of someone pissing on an american flag? You know, something a little closer to home for people. I can't imagine I'd have too many people fighting for my "right" of free expression. I think I'd go red, then banned within minutes.
Not from me for that reason as peeing on old glory is free speech in my book. Would i approve? No, of course not, but id still fight for your right to do it. Its part of what we call freedom down here.
However, i have noticed that aside from the hypocrisy and closet bigotry of your own, neither of which is a crime, you have violated more than one of the forum rules, so does that mean you will man up and 'do the right thing' ( as you suggested above )
Oh, and im outta this thread, as feeding the troll has gotten boring.
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 02-06-2012).]
You know, that's sad. That's really sad that someone even feels a need to warn me that I could be banned for this-effectively for not following a majority. In this section, its made for a much more negative experience. You have a room where the majority serves as both preacher and choir. Any dissenting opinion has been rooted out. Right now, there are no less than 15 goddamned threads about how Obama is the anti-christ.
I used to enjoy having a good debate on this site. Now, if you express a dissenting opinion, you get pummeled to the point where you think before you hit, "post reply", is this worth it?
I had you as a positive for some thing or the other. I see no reason to change that.
But, I bet that you will offend a few using the lords name in vain. Not me, but some.
There is a lot of band wagon jumping, in many threads. I have done it myself. But, I don't attack the group. They are lions.
My way of dealing... Take a break. Only read. Don't comment. Enjoy life. Gridlock, you will be fine. I hope that you don't get banned for speaking your mind. Differing views are just that. Views that are different. I don't expect certain individuals to see things my way. Heck, even friends have different points about life. I still call them friends.
Guess this is the thread I want to die on. I want to incite change.
I had no desire to "die" while making a point, but This was the thread that I wanted to incite some change here with. I was summarily accused of "only trying to get some attention".
Gridlock, you can incite more change by sticking around and posting rather than by being killed off. Martyrs have no power here.
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:I've got to remember that one, next time I insult a group of people. I just say "hey, I have a very good reason to hate you" and all will be well.
Nice call.
quote
Originally posted by Gridlock:I'm adding that given that there is at least 1 openly gay member
There is? I thought Torquy was the only one. Well, I quess she doesn't count as gay because she was a pre-op tranny
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:Being bigoted doesn't make it any less benevolent than racism. And many people are intolerant bigots to economic refugees in our country. But they portray themselves "righteous" and some even proclaiming they have the voice and hand of "Jesus Christ", yet they express huge disdain and bigotry to economic refugees, which is basically boiled down to racism.
I hate anyone that drives without insurance.
quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:I will learn from this how to properly troll and bait other members.
There are several openly gay members here. I know of one that I want to share a beer with. It may not be my preferance, but it is theirs. All that I need to know.
The rule is now, post what you want with no consequence.
Seriously, nobody is putting a gun to your head to come here. PFF is not the only forum on the internet. It isn't even the only Fiero forum on the internet. Hell, if you believe some members here, it isn't even anywhere near the best Fiero forum on the internet and you can get a lot better technical advice on other (Fiero) forums. So what's keeping you here? No, seriously? If you feel there's so much wrong with this forum then why do you chose to come here all the time?. Not every now and then, but every frickin' day? And don't give me that crap that "PFF has changed". PFF hasn't changed. Not one bit. People have been giving me the same crap year in year out. Only the people that give me that crap change. For 13 years people think there's something "seriously wrong" with PFF and the way it's "moderated". Again, nobody is putting a gun to your head to come here.
PFF is not the TO/T section. But guess what? Most whiners that complain there's something wrong with PFF don't have a single post in any of the other sections. They probably don't even visit those sections.
There are several openly gay members here. I know of one that I want to share a beer with. It may not be my preferance, but it is theirs. All that I need to know.
Tony
I have to agree on that. Its not me, but if someone wants to be different, more power to them.
I have to agree on that. Its not me, but if someone wants to be different, more power to them.
Don't fully understand how being gay equals wanting to be different. I know that there are gay kids and gay adults who powerfully wish that they were not gay. Some kids kill themselves trying to fit in. Some people live their entire lives closeted because they are afraid or ashamed of being different. Wanting to be different is not the same as accepting what you are.
just to be clear, I have no problem with gay people. I have personally watch the transformation from m>f. Even saw her once at a friends party after she got back from the surgery in Mexico.
I also worked for an alarm monitoring company that had so many gay and bi people in it, we all called "gay D T".
), 
It may not be my preferance, but it is theirs. All that I need to know. 
