I have NEVER seen Stan personally insult anyone on here unless he was directly attacked. He has very strong opinions about negative situations and he voices those opinions.
Ok, I'll wade in the muck.. 1. If anyone here, has EVER given me a + simply because I wore a uniform or served in combat, please, change it. Public acceptance, idolation, respect, or acknowledgment is NOT why I signed up. It's not why teachers teach, why Policemen patrol, firemen fight fires, or medics save lives.
2. Serving gives no one a free pass for anything--there ARE NO FREE PASSES in life. Oswald didn't deserve one, the Fort Hood shooter didn't get one, and Commanders-in-Chief don't get one, have even been impeached, and they are head of all armed forces. Teachers don't get a free pass, firemen don't get one, policemen don't get one, I don't get one--no one does. Boykins didn't get one either, and neither did McAuthor or Patton, and Boykins wouldn't make a pimple on Patton's butt. Boykins was a general in rank only--he became a politico long ago.
3. Free speech--in regards to USA PFF members.. How many times do I have to say it?. The 1st Amendment only says what GOVT CANNOT do. "Congress shall make no law.........". Even Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton--BOTH founding fathers who help WRITE the constitution knew, believed, and realized there were consequences to things they publicly siad and wrote, and one of them killed the other over a printed article. We have laws regarding libel/slander, but those are not 1st amendment/free speech issues, and SCOTUS has on more than one occassion said so. IOW, uhlanstan can say anything he wishes, but should and better be ready to face consequences here or lesewhere for doing so.
4. Racism and the military. uhlanstan and I are about the same age and both of us have made our military life known here. IMO, one might enter service a racist, but I have never met a service member, ESPECIALLY a combat vet who served after WW2, who left the service a racist. You learn real quick that the color, nationality, religion etc is of no matter--all that matters is that he is watching your ass and you are looking after his. (yeah--I said asses in a gay bashing thread--let the jokes begin) .
5. Discussions of bigot related subjects. YES. How else would one know if bigotry is present otherwise?
Well said. I feel the same way, and have found the same thing out.
Brad
Shoot, if Wheaton wasn't a full 5 hours from Brookfield, I'd meet you at a bar for drinks...
I go up there every now and then to visit the huge graveyard with tons of generations of family in it. I think I'm related to almost everyone in there.
I have NEVER seen Stan personally insult anyone on here unless he was directly attacked. He has very strong opinions about negative situations and he voices those opinions.
I still have him rated with a + for his technical posts, but:
quote
Originally posted by uhlanstan:
>.the driver licence should be restricted untill 25 or mayby 30,of course many yong men would not have a licence, the worse drivers are young men who think they are master drivers,In the past cars were not as safe & many would roll the car or slide off the hiway & ruin thier first car,,now that cars are much more reliable every family is at risk when a complete drooling idiot moron like nitrohead is at the wheel..Slow down I do not like slow lucy.especially on the 2 lane hiway,but it make little difference in my life,,The people who obey the law are seen a Idiots it just ain,t so.. ..I have notice the slower drivers are normally observing the speed limit ,it is only on the 2 lane highway that they get me grumbling .On this forum are mostly men..I never seek to be popular,just check my red bar. But the idiots like nitrohead kill the inocent,,slow down !! you know you are a dangerous driver One main purpose of traffic enforcement ,is to change your behavior .the purpose of my post is to change your behavior ,There is autocross ,try it,,TRY being a man ,,act responsible,leave the boy behind.. ..When I was a racer,, I notice the men who raced were mainly safer, slower drivers ,they might exceed the speed limit when the road traffic was light, but were safe driver..I have been tail ended 5 times every one was under 30,one was drunk, he tryed to leave the scene,2 were women..just taps from cell phone use Up untill a few years ago women were much safer & BETTER driver,who gives a fying Turd if they could not run the slalom,,women obey the law more than men,BUT IT IS THE YOUNG MEN who are the worse drivers in the world, I have listen to them in judicial court express thier remorse CRAP.. show respect & be a man,cowboy up!! I concider women far better drivers than men,they are also the ones holding up traffic I am going to watch the slow lucy for the next month,, why do so many of them appear to be Short??
Screw Santa,,bad bad Santa.. I ask for a fat bank account and a slim waist,he got it all wrong !! look back & check who is tailgating you
What cracks me up is that many of the "rightous" (you know who you are) here would NEVER put up with HALF the abuse he piles on others, if it was you or YOUR "group" he was abusing. You would call him on his bullsh!t INSTANTLY and RUTHLESSLY. But you utter narry a word, when you know damn well he is in the wrong for what he says and calls people RIGHT HERE to your own fellow members. Makes me want to puke.
Yes Boonie, you know and I know and several others know... there is such a HUGE double standard in this forum. It's fine to mouth off here, as long as you are mouthing off in the direction that the majority agree with. Cross that line, and look out for the flying negs.
I admit that Stan makes me laugh, but I've also mentioned to him on more than one occasion that I feel he goes overboard with some of his comments. If I was gay or Muslim or Asian, or gawd forbid... a gay Islamic Asian, I'd not be too pleased with the abusive meanderings that Stan often posts.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-05-2012).]
Yes Boonie, you know and I know and several others know... there is such a HUGE double standard in this forum. It's fine to mouth off here, as long as you are mouthing off in the direction that the majority agree with. Cross that line, and look out for the flying negs.
.
And hey, if that's how it is, if that's how it really works, I totally get that. It's the pretending that "that ain't how it is" is what I find hard to swallow.
But then again, i'm still carrying baggage from not being accepted into the "Kool Kids" click at school. I was just misunderstood. To know me is to love me.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-04-2012).]
And hey, if that's how it is, if that's how it really works, I totally get that. It's the pretending that "that ain't how it is" is what I find hard to swallow.
I would say that you are correct. If I was almost fatally injured due to some dumbass illegal, I would hate every illegal that is out there.
My life (and that of my family) was once threatened by an American. Should I hate every American out there? I was once bitten by a dog. Should I hate all dogs? A woman cheated on me once. Should I hate all women? I once almost died because a doctor made a mistake. Should I hate all doctors? I once almost died in a car accident, because some guy thought it was OK to cut in front of me. Should I hate all guys?
I you have answered "no" to any of these questions but still think it's OK to hate every "illegal" out there because of the action of one, then by definition you are a racist. Your prerogative, but don't give me that crap it's totally acceptable to be a racist.
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: My life (and that of my family) was once threatened by an American. Should I hate every American out there? I was once bitten by a dog. Should I hate all dogs? A woman cheated on me once. Should I hate all women? I once almost died because a doctor made a mistake. Should I hate all doctors? I once almost died in a car accident, because some guy thought it was OK to cut in front of me. Should I hate all guys?
Just a question? Where are the racist statements in this thread? I see prejudicial slurs and comments and bigotry, but no racist comments.
I can't fault a person for the color of their skin. I can't fault someone for their ethniticity. They had no choice in the matter. But religion, immigration status and to an extent sexual orientation is all what a person can choose and control.
Is being a bigot "better" than being a racist? Possibly. It's debatable.
Just a question? Where are the racist statements in this thread? I see prejudicial slurs and comments and bigotry, but no racist comments.
I can't fault a person for the color of their skin. I can't fault someone for their ethniticity. They had no choice in the matter. But religion, immigration status and to an extent sexual orientation is all what a person can choose and control.
Is being a bigot "better" than being a racist? Possibly. It's debatable.
Maybe the rules changed from race/creed/skin color based hatred to be more all inclusive.? Don't like people who don't like Fieros? You may be a racist. Don't like people who drive Civics? You may be a racist. Don't like people who don't like people? You mayy be a racist. Don't like racists? You may be a racist.
Well, for every Uhlanstan you have a Ray.b and a Neptune.
We can't have one without the others. Stan doesn't bother me one bit. His style of grammar and his "storytelling" are different, but he does mean well.
Uhlanstan is a Marine. He served in Vietnam. Chances are he does have a reason to type the way he does.
This is America, if you dont like Stan, and you see his thread, feel free to pass it on and go to the next one. Maybe even stay out of O/T.
As for me, I say 'Stan has paid his debt to America, let him rant.
Many veterans here paid their debt to America. So can I be racist, an independent thinker, homophobe as well and not get lambasted for expressing an opinion such as that I think Republicans are crap along with their Democratic buddies?
In this discussion, I agree with Don that I don't particularly agree with Boykin. I also resent an extremist Right Wing organization comprised of rich influential insiders holding a Prayer Breakfast on military reservations. I had to endure them in the military for 23 years while knowing that The Family (quick, FieroBear and Avengador, google "The Family") is behind the National Prayer Breakfast. There probably isn't any harm with the NPB being sponsored by extremists but why did President Eisenhower agree with it?
Yes, the post is for sure more offensive on the basis of bigotry, not racism. There may be a racist rant in his original post, I just can't understand what he's saying to know if there is or not.
For people that are looking to provide more excuses for Stan, I don't think he means "hey, I f'ing love these guys!" when you combine the word moslem with "athiest queers"
I think the best post in this thread is the one that descibes the double standard of as long as he doesn't offend your personal group, its ok.
In my mind, providing an acceptable outlet for bigotry and hate and general offense to people is as bad as being that yourself, or saying it with your own mouth, or writing.
Read closely, because that's not a knock on Cliff, that's a knock on every bigoted member of this forum(of which there are many) saying, "oh, its just Stan"
I've been a member since 2002. That's 10 years I've been logging into PFF off and on, and for the last 8 I haven't even owned a Fiero. I took a break for a few years, and come back and notice a significantly more negative tone in O.T. Maybe its the fact that a lot of other people have already left? I don't know. I do know that right now, I don't really want to post here, or read excuses for hate like its acceptable.
This isn't a "poor me" statement at all. I guess I'm just putting out there that if this is the level of acceptability for statements such as this, then I guess I'm left to vote with my feet and actions.
Yes, the post is for sure more offensive on the basis of bigotry, not racism. There may be a racist rant in his original post, I just can't understand what he's saying to know if there is or not.
For people that are looking to provide more excuses for Stan, I don't think he means "hey, I f'ing love these guys!" when you combine the word moslem with "athiest queers"
I think the best post in this thread is the one that descibes the double standard of as long as he doesn't offend your personal group, its ok.
In my mind, providing an acceptable outlet for bigotry and hate and general offense to people is as bad as being that yourself, or saying it with your own mouth, or writing.
Read closely, because that's not a knock on Cliff, that's a knock on every bigoted member of this forum(of which there are many) saying, "oh, its just Stan"
I've been a member since 2002. That's 10 years I've been logging into PFF off and on, and for the last 8 I haven't even owned a Fiero. I took a break for a few years, and come back and notice a significantly more negative tone in O.T. Maybe its the fact that a lot of other people have already left? I don't know. I do know that right now, I don't really want to post here, or read excuses for hate like its acceptable.
This isn't a "poor me" statement at all. I guess I'm just putting out there that if this is the level of acceptability for statements such as this, then I guess I'm left to vote with my feet and actions.
I quote this becouse I agree with this.
See Gridlock, now WE have a group! I will excuse you and you can excuse me, and everyone else we will simple tear down and marginalize until we make them "an enemy of the state"! Get ready, get set,.............................take a break.
Thanks Cliff, I can appreciate Stans posts when he offers his insights and opinions without the bigotry, so I don't want him to stop posting. I just want him to stay away from bigoted remarks. We all have to indulge in a little self censorship at times.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
My life (and that of my family) was once threatened by an American. Should I hate every American out there? I was once bitten by a dog. Should I hate all dogs? A woman cheated on me once. Should I hate all women? I once almost died because a doctor made a mistake. Should I hate all doctors? I once almost died in a car accident, because some guy thought it was OK to cut in front of me. Should I hate all guys?
I you have answered "no" to any of these questions but still think it's OK to hate every "illegal" out there because of the action of one, then by definition you are a racist. Your prerogative, but don't give me that crap it's totally acceptable to be a racist.
My life (and that of my family) was once threatened by an American. Should I hate every American out there? I was once bitten by a dog. Should I hate all dogs? A woman cheated on me once. Should I hate all women? I once almost died because a doctor made a mistake. Should I hate all doctors? I once almost died in a car accident, because some guy thought it was OK to cut in front of me. Should I hate all guys?
I you have answered "no" to any of these questions but still think it's OK to hate every "illegal" out there because of the action of one, then by definition you are a racist. Your prerogative, but don't give me that crap it's totally acceptable to be a racist.
I don't think your examples are really fair. In your examples i agree, actions of one does not represent the whole, but in the case of "illegals", they are all criminals by definition.
I also have to disagree that hating a *criminal* is racist. It has nothing to do with their race it has to do with their actions. Am i a bigot by its strict definition? Perhaps.... but not racist. And even if its an unpopular viewpoint, i fully admit to hating people who come here under false pretense and break the law and should be packed up and sent back to wherever they came from..
If they came here legally, i wouldn't care what race they are... they followed the rules so are welcome here..
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 02-05-2012).]
Many veterans here paid their debt to America. So can I be racist, an independent thinker, homophobe as well and not get lambasted for expressing an opinion such as that I think Republicans are crap along with their Democratic buddies?
In this discussion, I agree with Don that I don't particularly agree with Boykin. I also resent an extremist Right Wing organization comprised of rich influential insiders holding a Prayer Breakfast on military reservations. I had to endure them in the military for 23 years while knowing that The Family (quick, FieroBear and Avengador, google "The Family") is behind the National Prayer Breakfast. There probably isn't any harm with the NPB being sponsored by extremists but why did President Eisenhower agree with it?
I wasn't alive when IKE had the watch so I cannot answer for him.
As for the first part, I could care less what your opinion is, say it. Thats what this board is (presumably) for.
I am saying though Even Uhlanstan has a right to say that which he wants. If it erupts into a debate, so be it. people are talking about a subject, and I'll bet dollars to donuts, thats what a forum is for.
..General William G Boykins had to pull out of a prayer breakfast at West Point,because athiest,child moslesting queers and care Moslems protested his speaking at a prayer breakfast at west point ,how could this possibly happen,our congressmen listen to loud atheist queers and Moslems !! they combined forces to protest & the general step back to save embarrassing the Military ..Please continue to sit on your butt and do nothing,let the other guy do it,, you know him, the same one who kept his mouth shut while Hitler packed the trains to the death camps, YOU!! Former special forces general Boykins ia a genuine hero ,,his mouth shut by queer trash & Moslem scum naturally it is the democrat,s pulling together once against our military & christians
I don't get the impression that he just hates the illegal ones. I get the impression that he hates them all.
You people tell me how "queer trash and moslem scum" can be read in any other way than hate inspired?
This "he hates illegals" thing is just another method of creating an excuse. Fail. Try again.
I you have answered "no" to any of these questions but still think it's OK to hate every "illegal" out there because of the action of one, then by definition you are a racist. Your prerogative, but don't give me that crap it's totally acceptable to be a racist.
In America, the overwhelming vast majority of our illegal immigrants are Mexican. Being Latino or Hispanic is not a race, and therefore is not racist. You can call it bigotted, but it's not racist.
There are white Hispanics (Argentine, Cuba, Uruguay, Chile), there are black Hispanics (Dominican Republic, Honduras), and there are native indian Hispanics (Guatemala, Peru, Mexico)... generally speaking of course. The Spaniards had sex with pretty much everyone they ran into, so there's a lot of mixing in there too.
Geez, not even you two outcasts want to include me. I feel so abandoned.
In all seriousness though, I don't know why we're keying on Stan. There's another forum member at PFF who posts nothing but hate filled trash. At least Stan's posts have some humor in them. This other guy got booted out of here years ago for the disgusting garbage he posted, promptly re-registered under a new name, and continues to this day to post vile and offensive remarks.
It's quite amazing what this membership as a whole finds "acceptable", or not.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-05-2012).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: In America, the overwhelming vast majority of our illegal immigrants are Mexican. Being Latino or Hispanic is not a race, and therefore is not racist. You can call it bigotted, but it's not racist.
There are white Hispanics (Argentine, Cuba, Uruguay, Chile), there are black Hispanics (Dominican Republic, Honduras), and there are native indian Hispanics (Guatemala, Peru, Mexico)... generally speaking of course. The Spaniards had sex with pretty much everyone they ran into, so there's a lot of mixing in there too.
And that's not to say we don't hate other illegal immigrants as well. We hate people that are Canadian and in this country illegally, Egyptian and in this country illegally, etc. etc.
We don't hate the race, or the country, we hate the fact that they are in this country illegally.
I love Mexico, I plan one day to retire to central Mexico and live in a little villa a half hour from the ocean. I've been there a few times when I was younger, and the people reminded me of home, the food was good, and the living was inexpensive.
Canada I have never been to, I can't comment either way, I picture it like North Dakota expanded, with a lot of Eh's
Geez, not even you two outcasts want to include me. I feel so abandoned.
In all seriousness though, I don't know why we're keying on Stan. There's another forum member at PFF who posts nothing but hate filled trash. At least Stan's posts have some humor in them. This other guy got booted out of here years ago for the disgusting garbage he posted, promtly re-registered under a new name, and continues to this day to post vile and offensive remarks.
It's quite amazing what this membership as a whole finds "acceptable", or not.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: In America, the overwhelming vast majority of our illegal immigrants are Mexican. Being Latino or Hispanic is not a race, and therefore is not racist. You can call it bigotted, but it's not racist.
There are white Hispanics (Argentine, Cuba, Uruguay, Chile), there are black Hispanics (Dominican Republic, Honduras), and there are native indian Hispanics (Guatemala, Peru, Mexico)... generally speaking of course. The Spaniards had sex with pretty much everyone they ran into, so there's a lot of mixing in there too.
Being bigoted doesn't make it any less benevolent than racism. And many people are intolerant bigots to economic refugees in our country. But they portray themselves "righteous" and some even proclaiming they have the voice and hand of "Jesus Christ", yet they express huge disdain and bigotry to economic refugees, which is basically boiled down to racism.
If you had a huge number of economic refugees from Canada or Europe that happen to be of the Caucasian mix, there wouldn't be the outcry there is now on these suppose "illegal immigrants breaking the law".... No! They are economic refugees trying to survive and make a better life for their families. But they speak another language and they have darker skin and have a different de facto culture and that is what makes people uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with that they are here illegally working at McDonalds making Happy Meals for your Ritalin induced bratty kids.I It's because they look different than your fat white butt. Where is the Christian heart when it comes to this? Nope! Because most people are racist, bigots and homophobes. The so called kind heart of Jesus Christ takes a back seat... hell, thrown out the window for many so called Christians when it comes to other people who are not like them.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 02-05-2012).]
Yes, the post is for sure more offensive on the basis of bigotry, not racism. There may be a racist rant in his original post, I just can't understand what he's saying to know if there is or not.
For people that are looking to provide more excuses for Stan, I don't think he means "hey, I f'ing love these guys!" when you combine the word moslem with "athiest queers"
I think the best post in this thread is the one that descibes the double standard of as long as he doesn't offend your personal group, its ok.
In my mind, providing an acceptable outlet for bigotry and hate and general offense to people is as bad as being that yourself, or saying it with your own mouth, or writing.
Read closely, because that's not a knock on Cliff, that's a knock on every bigoted member of this forum(of which there are many) saying, "oh, its just Stan"
I've been a member since 2002. That's 10 years I've been logging into PFF off and on, and for the last 8 I haven't even owned a Fiero. I took a break for a few years, and come back and notice a significantly more negative tone in O.T. Maybe its the fact that a lot of other people have already left? I don't know. I do know that right now, I don't really want to post here, or read excuses for hate like its acceptable.
This isn't a "poor me" statement at all. I guess I'm just putting out there that if this is the level of acceptability for statements such as this, then I guess I'm left to vote with my feet and actions.
Hopefully, it's not "with your feet". Stick around--fight for that which you believe in. Silence changes nothing and presents the false facade of acceptance. I haven't yet publicly stated my view on the subject line and the rhetoric in the opening post, but will now.
I hate political correctness, and disdain sucking ass--I really do, but there's a limit to what I find acceptable adult even in that regard. The title and following post are deplorable and disgusting to read. He has valid points perhaps regarding how protests silenced someone, and tho I did understand exactly what he was trying to say in regards to Gen Boykins' , I see no reason it had to be or should have been said in that manner other than theatrics and sesationalism. Having said that, I can't get inside his head so I have no idea whther is is a racist, bigot, or just seeking attention, but either way, I still feel the same regarding the 1st sentence in this paragraph, and will go one step further by saying I think in light of this being a family friendly forum, that the opening post qualifies the writer for at least a temporary suspension as others have recieved when they pushed the limits of rules and good taste. I would hope, should I ever post a thread title of the same nature, that "someone" reads me the riot act in no uncertain terms.
I think your political views suck, but I don't find you personally to be vile and offensive.
No, unfortunately the guy is a fellow Canadian. If nothing else, it at least proves that it isn't only Americans who can be full of themselves. (Calm down fellas, I'm just teasing y'all.)
Being bigoted doesn't make it any less benevolent than racism. And many people are intolerant bigots to economic refugees in our country. But they portray themselves "righteous" and some even proclaiming they have the voice and hand of "Jesus Christ", yet they express huge disdain and bigotry to economic refugees, which is basically boiled down to racism.
If you had a huge number of economic refugees from Canada or Europe that happen to be of the Caucasian mix, there wouldn't be the outcry there is now on these suppose "illegal immigrants breaking the law".... No! They are economic refugees trying to survive and make a better life for their families. But they speak another language and they have darker skin and have a different de facto culture and that is what makes people uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with that they are here illegally working at McDonalds making Happy Meals for your Ritalin induced bratty kids.I It's because they look different than your fat white butt. Where is the Christian heart when it comes to this? Nope! Because most people are racist, bigots and homophobes. The so called kind heart of Jesus Christ takes a back seat... hell, thrown out the window for many so called Christians when it comes to other people who are not like them.
Mexico has a country south of them in worse economic shape than them. Guatemalans illegally immigrating into Mexico was a huge problem for Mexico when I was down there.
I personally couldn't tell the difference between the Guatemalans and the Mexicans by looks, or by dress. They did talk a little different though. The Guatemalans would illegally enter Mexico, and work for less money than the legal residents of Mexico.
They were hated by most people in Mexico, they looked the same, acted the same, had similar traditions and manners of speaking.
There is evidence to me that was Canada the economic disaster that Mexico is, and we had a huge immigration problem from Canada that we would be just as vocal against Canadians as we are Mexicans*.
Thankfully Canada is self supporting, and unlike us most of the time is a good neighbor.
Brad
*"Mexican" is meant in this post to mean Hispanic in general. I know there is a difference, but was trying to simplify a bit.
Ok, let's not even get bogged down in the racist side.
There is at least one gay member here that I know of(and probably more if stats hold-I don't know, do we have a lot of republican congressmen on the forum?) that gets to read about how he's a child molester.
"because athiest,child moslesting queers"
I can't even begin to start dissecting his post, and what is right and wrong about it. I don't want to. It's crap.
Fine, I'll leave out the "I get the impression bs" part and make a clear and easy to follow statement: It's hate filled.
And after 3 pages, I'm left with the feeling that this **** is accepted in this membership. Is that true, or false. If its false, then do something about it.
I vote to ban Uhlanstan from the forum.
I ask others that agree to join.
Today, here and now, make a stand that despite personal feelings on whatever subject, we as a group will not tolerate racist, bigoted or prejudiced remarks from members of the forum.
And Cliff, I ask that this become a policy of the forum. I ask that this go above the rating system. I don't think a "majority rules" system, ie. ratings will achieve the desired result. I really think we should do something to make sure that ANY member be welcome.
I vote to NOT ban him and let him continue to rant and express his views. And the same vote goes to anyone else who wants to rant. ( including you.. as calling for a ban on another could earn you one too in the right situation )
Until it becomes personal attacks, i don't have a problem with either side of the coin. Uncalled for personal attacks is my line. ( or obscene.. forgot about that but that isn't the issue we are talking about )
quote
Originally posted by Gridlock: I really think we should do something to make sure that ANY member be welcome.
Unless they say something you disagree with apparently.
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 02-05-2012).]
Originally posted by maryjane: Ok, I'll wade in the muck.. 1. If anyone here, has EVER given me a + simply because I wore a uniform or served in combat, please, change it. Public acceptance, idolation, respect, or acknowledgment is NOT why I signed up. It's not why teachers teach, why Policemen patrol, firemen fight fires, or medics save lives.
Since I alluded to this in a previous post, I think that this may be directed at least partially at me. Relax. I don't give +'s simply because someone served. It's based on my perception of their character, over time. In fact there are several here, who have served, who have a (IMHO) richly deserved neg. They worked hard for it. Stan rants. He has his say and shuts up about it. I'm not sure that I even take him completely seriously. There are some here who are filled with enough hatred and venom, that you could cut it with a knife.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick: No, unfortunately the guy is a fellow Canadian.
