The problem with human morality (absent a diety) is that such morality is flexible. It is subject to change based on how the current society feels.
Morality has changed even with gods. Slavery was morally acceptable to christians. Their little book even endorsed it. Society changed and now slavery is not morally acceptable any more.
Morality has changed even with gods. Slavery was morally acceptable to christians. Their little book even endorsed it. Society changed and now slavery is not morally acceptable any more.
Its a big book. Have you read it? Have you tried to understand it? Have you approached it with an open mind to see what all the excitement is about? My guess is you have not. Anyone can pick the bible up and use quotes to benefit their arguments, thats easy. Isaiah 59:1,2 may help explain why people dont get the "proof " they want to be believers. God cant help those who dont want it.
Originally posted by Slayre: God cant help those who dont want it.
Sure he could. All he would have to do is show up, or speak to people in the human fashion of outside their head. He could have everyone knowing he exsists. Simply by showing up & saying, "I just want to let you all know that I really do exsist, and I love you all very much, so please stop hurting each other.". He just don't want too.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-30-2009).]
Sure he could. All he would have to do is show up, or speak to people in the human fashion of outside their head. He could have everyone knowing he exsists. Simply by showing up & saying, "I just want to let you all know that I really do exsist, and I love you all very much, so please stop hurting each other.". He just don't want too.
He did show up. They killed Him. Read the Book. I'll send you one if you need it.
Originally posted by Slayre: Its a big book. Have you read it? Have you tried to understand it? Have you approached it with an open mind to see what all the excitement is about? My guess is you have not. Anyone can pick the bible up and use quotes to benefit their arguments, thats easy. Isaiah 59:1,2 may help explain why people dont get the "proof " they want to be believers. God cant help those who dont want it.
There is no proff and the verse is a great cop out. It's no different then holding out an empty hand telling you I hold a giant diamond then when you tell me there is nothing there I retort that you don't see it because you don't want to. I'm a confirmed catholic and was an alter server for over a decade.I have read the bible. A few times. Including the books that were left out and the gospels that were left out. I read the bible with an open mind and that's why I can see it for the BS that it is. Its great for telling fables and that's about it. I've also studied the history of christianity. So you guessed wrong.
There is no proff and the verse is a great cop out. It's no different then holding out an empty hand telling you I hold a giant diamond then when you tell me there is nothing there I retort that you don't see it because you don't want to. I'm a confirmed catholic and was an alter server for over a decade.I have read the bible. A few times. Including the books that were left out and the gospels that were left out. I read the bible with an open mind and that's why I can see it for the BS that it is. Its great for telling fables and that's about it. I've also studied the history of christianity. So you guessed wrong.
Hmm. That explains your rude and off-the-wall comments towads others on various threads.
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"I drive modified Fieros- anything less would be uncivilized."
Morality has changed even with gods. Slavery was morally acceptable to christians. Their little book even endorsed it. Society changed and now slavery is not morally acceptable any more.
OK, you have a point about slavery. Perhaps there ISN'T an absolute morality, but that would apply to human morality as well.
My book said that was his son. Gods can't be killed. I can send you my copy if you need to reread it.
"For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
Jesus and God are the same. Jesus is God in human form. Humans can be killed. BUT, He was resurrected. This is Fact. Can you name any other person to rise from the dead? Jesus was sacrificed to wash all the sins of man away. This is the only way into Heaven.
Sorry if you believe different. God will be sorry to hear that.
Jesus and God are the same. Jesus is God in human form.
Negitive. Jesus wasn't even privy to the complete mind of God. There were many things about God he did not understand. If it was as you say, Jesus would have known everything God knew. He did not. Many things were unknown to him. That's no God.
God's representive, maybe.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-30-2009).]
Negitive. Jesus wasn't even privy to the complete mind of God. There were many things about God he did not understand. If it was as you say, Jesus would have known everything God knew. He did not. Many things were unknown to him. That's no God.
God's representive, maybe.
Do you have a valid source for this claim? I will say this about this thread. At least everyone is listening and responding instead of the hatred that usually pops up here.
Can you name any other person to rise from the dead?
Raises hand. The answer is Lazarus by one of Jesus' miracles.
quote
John 11:1-44 (New International Version)
John 11 The Death of Lazarus 1Now a man named Lazarus was sick. He was from Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 2This Mary, whose brother Lazarus now lay sick, was the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair. 3So the sisters sent word to Jesus, "Lord, the one you love is sick." 4When he heard this, Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it." 5Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. 6Yet when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days.
7Then he said to his disciples, "Let us go back to Judea."
8"But Rabbi," they said, "a short while ago the Jews tried to stone you, and yet you are going back there?"
9Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light. 10It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light."
11After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."
12His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." 13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, 15and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."
16Then Thomas (called Didymus) said to the rest of the disciples, "Let us also go, that we may die with him."
Jesus Comforts the Sisters 17On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18Bethany was less than two miles[a] from Jerusalem, 19and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother. 20When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home. 21"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."
23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."
24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
27"Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ,[b] the Son of God, who was to come into the world."
28And after she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. "The Teacher is here," she said, "and is asking for you." 29When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. 31When the Jews who had been with Mary in the house, comforting her, noticed how quickly she got up and went out, they followed her, supposing she was going to the tomb to mourn there.
32When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died."
33When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. 34"Where have you laid him?" he asked. "Come and see, Lord," they replied.
35Jesus wept.
36Then the Jews said, "See how he loved him!"
37But some of them said, "Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man have kept this man from dying?"
Jesus Raises Lazarus From the Dead 38Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. 39"Take away the stone," he said. "But, Lord," said Martha, the sister of the dead man, "by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days." 40Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"
41So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me."
43When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out!" 44The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face. Jesus said to them, "Take off the grave clothes and let him go."
Boonie, Jesus was a man. He had to be in order to die for our sins. He resurrected because he is the son of God. All true believers will be resurrected when the rapture occurs and Jesus returns.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 05-30-2009).]
There is no proff and the verse is a great cop out. It's no different then holding out an empty hand telling you I hold a giant diamond then when you tell me there is nothing there I retort that you don't see it because you don't want to. I'm a confirmed catholic and was an alter server for over a decade.I have read the bible. A few times. Including the books that were left out and the gospels that were left out. I read the bible with an open mind and that's why I can see it for the BS that it is. Its great for telling fables and that's about it. I've also studied the history of christianity. So you guessed wrong.
Christianity is faith based. So If God told me there was a giant diamond in his hand that I could not see, I would believe him. thats how faith works. God works on his time not ours. He will reveal the diamond to me when he knows Im ready for it. Kinda like if your 7 year old came up to you and asked for a z06 vette. Would you buy it for him ? ( if you could afford one) of course not. You would wait until he was ready for it, right?
OK, you have a point about slavery. Perhaps there ISN'T an absolute morality, but that would apply to human morality as well.
Actually, Phranc has no valid points with the scriptures. The fact that so-called Christians condoning slavery had more to do with racial hatred, their lack of following biblical scriptures, and advancement in society. Easily performed if you keep the masses illiterate by condemning anyone who dared to translate the scriptures or question their authority and easily enforced if you’ve blessed the King/Queen that’s in power (after all you control the masses).
Thus both dirty hands are easily washed by their destruction is seen throughout the world where kings have conquered other countries with little or no raised eyebrow during these crusades. After all, if a conquered society was deemed “barbaric” or appear to be uncivilized--- their devious actions justify the means. They’re apostatizing!
Originally posted by avengador1: Raises hand. The answer is Lazarus by one of Jesus' miracles.
Boonie, Jesus was a man. He had to be in order to die for our sins. He resurrected because he is the son of God. All true believers will be resurrected when the rapture occurs and Jesus returns.
Bingo! JESUS raised Lazarus from the dead.
Here is the hardest part about Faith. There were people that were living at the time of Jesus. Even when they saw the miracles, some didn't believe. Talk about hard headed! For modern man to have Faith at all is a miracle. Everything we believe in happened two thousand years ago! It's not like we are seeing it first hand. When Jesus returns EVERY HEAD WILL BOW. There is no where to hide. You can be defiant now, but you will repent. God promises that. He WILL show everyone that He is alive and is the Almighty. The sound of His voice alone can bring down mountains. There are going to be many happy people when that day comes. For the rest, it will be the worst feeling you can imagine. Condemned to eternity separated from God's love. It is a choice. He is not mean or uncaring. He offers eternal happiness to EVERYONE! All you have to do is let Him enter your heart. It's that easy. No catch. No test to pass. You think you have to "give up" all your ways of life by getting saved? You will GLADLY do so if Jesus is truly in your heart. You will not be perfect. You won't have everything go your way from then on. It is difficult, but you have an understanding of the reasons behind it.
Just the few things I have witnessed in my life are amazing. There is no way it could be anything other than the power of God. Prayers are very powerful.
Can you argue the fact that He was risen from the dead? There were hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses.
Maybe Elvis is god? There were probably more witnesses who have seen Elvis after he died.
What about UFO's. Probably many many more witnesses to those as well.
Just because a lot of people "see something" and others go and write about it, doesn't make it true. It might all be a bit more believable if it wasn't edited so much.
Was there always a person walking behind the rest with a pen/tablet writing all this stuff down? or was it written later on, after being told by various people? I am guessing the latter. So try out that little experiment where you tell someone something, they tell another etc......and then see the difference in the story by the time it gets through 10 people.
I heard with all the new things being found out, they are re-writing it again too, I think it's due to come out in 2012.
Mark 16 The Resurrection 1When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. 2Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?" 4But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.
6"Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7But go, tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.' "
8Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.
((The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.)) 9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it. 12Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.
14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.
15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
quote
John 20:26-29 (New International Version)
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
quote
Acts 4 (New International Version)
Acts 4 Peter and John Before the Sanhedrin 1The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people. 2They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead. 3They seized Peter and John, and because it was evening, they put them in jail until the next day. 4But many who heard the message believed, and the number of men grew to about five thousand. 5The next day the rulers, elders and teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. 6Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and the other men of the high priest's family. 7They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: "By what power or what name did you do this?"
8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, 10then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11He is " 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.[a]'[b] 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
13When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. 14But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. 15So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together. 16"What are we going to do with these men?" they asked. "Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it. 17But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn these men to speak no longer to anyone in this name."
18Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God. 20For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard."
21After further threats they let them go. They could not decide how to punish them, because all the people were praising God for what had happened. 22For the man who was miraculously healed was over forty years old.
The Believers' Prayer 23On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 25You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David: " 'Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? 26The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the Lord and against his Anointed One.[c]'[d] 27Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people[e] of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. 29Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus." 31After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.
The Believers Share Their Possessions 32All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. 36Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), 37sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet.
OK, you have a point about slavery. Perhaps there ISN'T an absolute morality, but that would apply to human morality as well.
No, bear, he does not have a point about slavery. Slavery existed in the Roman empire, but Christians did not see slaves the way the Romans did.
To the Roman, a Slave was property, not considered fully human (kinda like preborn babies, these days), and, therefore, not entitled the rights of the citizenry. They were functionally illiterate (by design, most slaves were purposefully not educated, or educated only as their desired usefulness might call for.
Paul's letter to Philemon is a treatise to a brother in Christ to accept Onesimus, a slave, back, and, though a servant, to treat him as fellow brother in Christ. In fact, Paul tells Philemon (1:8 - 11), "So, although I have quite a lot of confidence in Christ and could command you to do what is proper, I would rather appeal to you on the basis of love – I, Paul, an old man and even now a prisoner for the sake of Christ Jesus I am appealing to you concerning my child, whose spiritual father I have become during my imprisonment, that is, Onesimus, who was formerly useless to you, but is now useful to you and me."
Yes, Christianity has been used to promote and/or justify slavery, particularly because there are passages that address how to treat slaves and, if you are a slave/servant, how to honor God as one. These addressed circumstances that the emerging Church found in its present. In fact, it is the Church that was the foundation of the Abolitionist movement in the US, following the Second Great Awakening. There is a difference between using the Bible to justify what what you want, and a genuine move of the Spirit, in which God guides the Church Body to conform to His standard.
Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: No, bear, he does not have a point about slavery. Slavery existed in the Roman empire, but Christians did not see slaves the way the Romans did.
The reason I say that is that I seem to recall in the Old Testament that slavery seemed to be accepted. Nope, I can't quote you chapter and verse, I'm just going by memory and the impression with which I was left.
But just because 2 homosexuals want to live together and maybe they make a life long commitment, they don't get to toss out THOUSANDS OF YEARS of a definition to fit what they are doing.
The church did. When they monopolized the word. Why aren't gays allowed to do the same?
(Yes, I obviously didn't read past page one since I'm sure from page 2 onwards it's the same "God hates Gays" drivel))
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: (Yes, I obviously didn't read past page one since I'm sure from page 2 onwards it's the same "God hates Gays" drivel))
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 05-31-2009).]
funny how some laws they want but others look insane even to the hard core thumpers
So, you use a partisan, straw man "commercial" as proof? C'mon ray, you've posted some off the wall stuff, but you can do better than that.
Cliff, when Judaism was in its infancy, monogamy was peculiar. The notion that one man and one woman should spend their lives together was antithetical to the surrounding cultures. Even today, the Koran allows up to four wives.
If you take religion out of it, then we are nothing more than rutting animals who use utensils to eat. In thousands of years of "societal evolution," you have to assume that we've tried everything, including homosexuals as the center of the family unit. Therefore, we can safely assume (due to the human propensity to experiment with what works) that this "social evolution" has weeded out the weak lings, i.e, all but a monogamous heterosexual foundation for creating and raising a family.
I also have to keep pointing out that no book in the history of humanity has the broad and deep proofs of its existence and accuracy of translation over the centuries than the Bible. Not Homer, not Plato, not Beowulf (author unknown). We have fragments dating to within eighty years of Christ's death and resurrection, and completes from the late second century. They all jibe, with minor grammatical (as opposed to substantial or factual) errors. Despite human intervention over the last two millenia, it survives intact. Therefore, I have only two choices: to listen to its Word says or not. The Word itself cannot be denied, no matter how much rayb says otherwise.
quote
(Yes, I obviously didn't read past page one since I'm sure from page 2 onwards it's the same "God hates Gays" drivel))
And it's actually been civil; just the way that you have asked. I think that, despite the trolls that appear here every now and again, we have a good core who, though they may not agree, respect the "living room" that you have provided us and that we may not thank you enough for.
BTW, nowhere in the Bible does it say that God hates gays. He hates the activity and the fact that a human that He has created (fearfully and wonderfully - PSALM 139) can be overtaken by the behavior. He wants that all would join Him in Glory (1 Tim 2:4), but that is our choice (John 3:16).
EDIT - Embellishment
[This message has been edited by Patrick's Dad (edited 05-31-2009).]
The reason I say that is that I seem to recall in the Old Testament that slavery seemed to be accepted. Nope, I can't quote you chapter and verse, I'm just going by memory and the impression with which I was left.
Actually, slavery was prevalent when these books were written, and the Hebrews themselves had just "walked away" from 400 years of it. The Levitical laws elevated the stature of slaves, and commanded that slaves should be set free in the Jubilee year (every seventh, or Sabbath year) and their debts forgiven. Again, unheard of among the societies that surrounded the fledgling nation.
Actually, slavery was prevalent when these books were written, and the Hebrews themselves had just "walked away" from 400 years of it. The Levitical laws elevated the stature of slaves, and commanded that slaves should be set free in the Jubilee year (every seventh, or Sabbath year) and their debts forgiven. Again, unheard of among the societies that surrounded the fledgling nation.
It's entirely true that Judaism/Christianity brought a change in attitude, but it seems to remain that there wasn't a condemnation or stand against slavery in total. It seems that slavery is still accepted. I don't know of any passage that says "slavery is wrong, don't do it", like many other commandments made of us.
Actually, Phranc has no valid points with the scriptures. The fact that so-called Christians condoning slavery had more to do with racial hatred, their lack of following biblical scriptures, and advancement in society. Easily performed if you keep the masses illiterate by condemning anyone who dared to translate the scriptures or question their authority and easily enforced if you’ve blessed the King/Queen that’s in power (after all you control the masses).
Thus both dirty hands are easily washed by their destruction is seen throughout the world where kings have conquered other countries with little or no raised eyebrow during these crusades. After all, if a conquered society was deemed “barbaric” or appear to be uncivilized--- their devious actions justify the means. They’re apostatizing!
Would that racial hate include the black slave owners that owned black slaves and the white slave owners that owned white slaves? What about the all the slaves in roman times including christians? Was it about race when a Roman pagan owned a Roman christian? Or when a Roman Christian owned a Roman pagan? You are wrong in saying slavery is about race. It never was through out history until Americana were taught that in an effort to demonize the south. That education leaves out many facts and is regurgitated over and over.
Christianity is faith based. So If God told me there was a giant diamond in his hand that I could not see, I would believe him. thats how faith works. God works on his time not ours. He will reveal the diamond to me when he knows Im ready for it. Kinda like if your 7 year old came up to you and asked for a z06 vette. Would you buy it for him ? ( if you could afford one) of course not. You would wait until he was ready for it, right?
Faith based on lies. God works on no time because he isn't real. He is a myth just like all the other gods.
No, bear, he does not have a point about slavery. Slavery existed in the Roman empire, but Christians did not see slaves the way the Romans did.
To the Roman, a Slave was property, not considered fully human (kinda like preborn babies, these days), and, therefore, not entitled the rights of the citizenry. They were functionally illiterate (by design, most slaves were purposefully not educated, or educated only as their desired usefulness might call for.
Paul's letter to Philemon is a treatise to a brother in Christ to accept Onesimus, a slave, back, and, though a servant, to treat him as fellow brother in Christ. In fact, Paul tells Philemon (1:8 - 11), "So, although I have quite a lot of confidence in Christ and could command you to do what is proper, I would rather appeal to you on the basis of love – I, Paul, an old man and even now a prisoner for the sake of Christ Jesus I am appealing to you concerning my child, whose spiritual father I have become during my imprisonment, that is, Onesimus, who was formerly useless to you, but is now useful to you and me."
Yes, Christianity has been used to promote and/or justify slavery, particularly because there are passages that address how to treat slaves and, if you are a slave/servant, how to honor God as one. These addressed circumstances that the emerging Church found in its present. In fact, it is the Church that was the foundation of the Abolitionist movement in the US, following the Second Great Awakening. There is a difference between using the Bible to justify what what you want, and a genuine move of the Spirit, in which God guides the Church Body to conform to His standard.
It must be nice to rewrite history. Slavery is slavery. Deut 20:10-11 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries(forced laborers) unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
But christians are quick to pick and choose what parts of the bible apply. Just as they are quick to say a word means something else. MY favourite is when say a day isn't a day when you question the fictional account of creation in the bible with facts like dinosaurs.
I don't mind gays and lesbians, WHAT I do mind is it being pushed in my face. Go to Disney the first on June. All these people kissing and making out in public making a spectacle of it. I think many "Gays" do it for attention. You do not see this behavior to this degree in heterosexual couples.
If they keep out of site like most do, then no problem, I would have the same issue with hetro couples as well.
I hear this once somewhere, IF everyone was gay we would have no human race.
No he didn't. That is fiction. The man Jesus didn't have super powers and didn't raise anyone from the dead.
I'm still waiting on a VALID source for all your claims. I'm willing to listen to them. All you do is say everything is fake and lies. This isn't Star Trek. Even the hard core Trekkies know it's just SciFi.
Prove to me God doesn't exist. Should be easy for you since you are so certain.
[This message has been edited by Carver1 (edited 05-31-2009).]
Would that racial hate include the black slave owners that owned black slaves and the white slave owners that owned white slaves?
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Originally posted by madcurl:
Actually, Phranc has no valid points with the scriptures. The fact that so-called Christians condoning slavery had more to do with racial hatred, their lack of following biblical scriptures, and advancement in society. Easily performed if you keep the masses illiterate by condemning anyone who dared to translate the scriptures or question their authority and easily enforced if you’ve blessed the King/Queen that’s in power (after all you control the masses).
Yeah, so-called Christians includes everybody regardless of which land, color, or who has the gold, but I'm sure you couldn't see that, right?
No more then saying just because you're black explains why you hate cops and have such a poor education on slavery.
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Originally posted by aceman:
Take a break from the forums, Phranc. Just some advice. I'm sure that you won't take it from me. You wouldn't take it from anyone else, either. Continue being "Phranc".
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Originally posted by pokeyfiero:
The thing is Phranc I really don't know anyone that really likes you. You have even been a topic in chat and all agree you are unredeemable loser. Lots of things you say I agree with but I still can't stand you most of the time. Some people would keep a guy like you around if they had the same beliefs and they felt you could help them in a fight. You can't admit your flaws or mistakes. You can't stand up and apologize. You don't care. Children in kindergarten know more about manning up than you do.
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Originally posted by Phranc:
I really don't care what you or the people in chat think of me. I have admitted flaws and mistakes before. But don't let a little fact that get in the way things. And I have nothing to apologize for. If people don't like me there is a nifty rating system, they can use it. Unlike some people I wouldn't come back again and again. Of course no one makes you read my posts or post in threads I start. Just because some people don't like how brutal I am it is their issue not mine.
Phranc behavior is typical. You must be a very, very sad person inside.
you know im gonna have to disagree with this right here... proving something doesnt exist..? really?
while i do agree with Phranc on a good majority of his posts (i just wish youd word them slightly different ) i remain what i call "slightly agnostic" open to the possibility or unpossibility of a higher being, but waiting for a sure sign (like physically in front of me kinda sign.)
Topic Closed
) i remain what i call "slightly agnostic" 
