Well, I was hoping it wasn't going to come to this. Let me first apologize to the people of this board because this type of behavior is uncalled for. I have been as nice and as professional as I could be for as long as I could be. But now Loyde has gone too far.
The Situation:
You might all remember that I started an L67 Fiero swap a couple of months ago for Dizmon. The link is here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055969.html Anyway, since Dizmon supplied a 4T65-E transmission for this swap we had no choice but to use an OBDII computer. At the time, I did not have the ability to reprogram the OBDII PCM so I started shopping around for someone to do it for us. Well I am on the 3800 e-mailing lists as well as the Grand Prix and other 3800 message boards where I have been seeing this gentleman out of Texas named Loyde who runs FastFieros. In several different posts and mailings by him in addition to what he has listed on his website, he makes himself out to be the "guru" of tuning OBDII 3800 PCMs for the Fiero engine swaps. He claims that he has vast experience in both the swaps and the PCM programming. So I took all of this to mean that this person would probably know what he was doing when it came to doing the PCM for my swap. For the record the engine and transmission we used in our swap were BONE STOCK so tuning should have been a breeze, just removing trouble codes and VATS amoung a few other simple things.
I emailed Loyde asking him if he could do all of these things for our swap using our 2002 PCM that came with the engine. His email response was this:
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 10/1/2004 Sure….
The code in the computer will be 2000 in order to kill the VATs. 1999 and 2000 are the only ones for the L67 hacked with no theft enable.
All the other stuff is no problem. The EVAP will function with the codes removed.
Price is $125 shipped….
Sometimes I can do a PCM in 24 hours, sometimes its 48 hours…
Loyde
So, therefore I decided to to have Loyde do the PCM programming since it was going to be "no problem". Notice no where in this email does he make mention of there being an issue with reprogramming the 2002 PCM with 2000/1999 code. I will come back to this later.
Well I got the PCM from Loyde and installed it into the car and on the first test drive the alternator failed so I had to replace it. However, in addition to that there were some emissions trouble codes set. These trouble codes were SUPPOSED TO BE REMOVED since I told Loyde this swap was going into a Fiero and not using any of the OBDII specific sensors and emissions devices. His response email was this:
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/12/2004
Sure I can turn off all the codes that show up if they are in the list of DTC’s..
Now, I cant just randomly turn off codes… Lets say P0146 is listed in the below list. Lets say I set it to OFF and no error reported. It wants to write code somewhere in the Hex for that. Problem is, this list also applys to V8 code. HPT built a generic list of codes rather than sort them by OSID. DHP is sorting theirs by OSID so if the code exist in that OSID of that PCM, it is safe to turn off. Even DHP using GM’s MemCal engineering cannot just turn off every code in the list for the same reason.
I need the Service Number and Hardware Number on that white tag on the PCM.
Thanks,
Loyde
This is the very first email where Loyde explained to me the problems with the software he was using to tune the OBDII computers. Loyde did cross-ship me a PCM with the emissions codes removed and I had to send him the one I had back once I got the new one. This cost me and my customer $20 in total shipping to this point on top of the $125 we paid for the custom tuning in the first place. At this point I was not upset because I was tidying up a few other things on the car so it was no big deal. However, I did notice that the transmission was not shifting that great, actually it was shifting lazy, sometimes it even felt like it was slipping. The shifts were lazy enough that eventually a code P1811 was set which means Maximum Adapt Long Shift, in other words, the PCM was "thinking" it was adding the maximum amount of pressure to the trans but the shifts were still taking too long to complete. Unfortuneately this trans code and issue did not show up until Loyde had already shipped off the new PCM so there was nothing I could do about the trans code.
At this point, I consulted my transmission builder about the issue because after all, this was a transmission code. It just so happens that my trans builder has done a swap exactly like this into his 96 Cutlass only he was using a 98 GTP PCM and used HP Tuners to program it. He gave me some tests to run by hooking up a pressure gauge to the trans and running the tests by using a scan tool to command a certain % of trans pressure everything checked out well within spec. However, when I terminated the diagnostic test the pressure dropped 25psi below spec at idle. Driving around without the scan tool yeilded similar, less than spec pressures. I consulted my trans builder with this data and he began to ask me questions about who reprogrammed the PCM and what software they were using. I told him I was having Loyde do it and he was using HP Tuners. My trans builder immediately told me to tell Loyde there was an error in the programming that could be related to the Torque Management tables in the programming.
I emailed Loyde with this information I got from my tranny guy and here was his response:
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/15/2004
One of the problems might be the code. The PCM is a late model PCM. 03 might have adaptive shifts, but the 97-02 does not. I know my 04 Series III does have adaptive shift for sure.
The code in the PCM is 2000 to avoid the Passkey issues. HPTuner claims to have resolved the Passkey with Version 1.5.0, but had to release 1.5.1 one day later because of a problem with Passkey.
Most likely should have setup a PCM from 99-01 like I normally do and try that on your wiring. I setup all my installs with 99 wiring, and 99 PCM code. Wiring was the same really 99-02. I know some 98 wiring can use the 99-02 PCM’s as well.
I have already reshipped you a PCM. It is changed for the codes you indicated. Temp changes also.
The performance shift mode is firmed up, but not that much compared to what DHP changes it to. The normal mode is just that still, stock. If you are in normal mode and experiencing a problem, but is either the PCM/CODE do to the wiring, or the wiring, or the transmission has issues internally.
Just call if you want to chat about it.
Loyde
Loyde admits in this email that the problem could be in the code. But notice this is the first instance where Loyde recommends that we should have started out with using a 1999 PCM. Unfortuneately Loyde had already sent the PCM so I decided to just try it out and see if it affected anything. The emissions codes were gone but the trans issues were still there.
I also reported my testing data to Loyde and here was his response:
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/16/2004
Guy, I have no idea. You are the first in many PCM’s have personally tested and used, and programmed for others to have this P1811 code….
Here is a pic of the torque management table. As you can see, I do turn off these on just about every Fiero installed 3800SC PCM because there’s no wheel sensors for TCS or torque management.
You have another PCM that will be there Wednesday with the same code but different PCM, but same Service number and hardware number. IF I had known these problems you are having Monday, I would have recommended using a 99-02 which is 09361735 / 09357440 to try instead on the PCM...
These problems you are having could very well be the late model PCM. When you send the PCM you have there today back, I have a customer car here today that I can install that PCM to and drive to see if I happen to get the exact same results. Ship that PCM tomorrow priority mail so I get it Friday.
Loyde
At this point I was very pleased that Loyde was working with me to resolve this issue and it started to sound like we had this problem nailed down. However, the next couple of emails I got from Loyde began to make me doubt this.
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/17/2004
We know nothing about the gears in the transmission. Maybe this trans has 3.29 gear set. Maybe it was upgraded by a previous owner.
In normal mode, this thing should be just that. Only the performance mode is mod'ed.
Do you have the VIN that the engine and transmission came from?
Loyde
Yet another thread that turned out to be a mechanical problem. The owner of the car and I both knew the transmission we had came out of a 2002 GTP and had an overall gear ratio of 2.93:1 so I knew this wasn't the problem. I forwarded some tuning suggestions that my trans builder emailed me to Loyde. The next day I got this email from Loyde:
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/17/2004 Not a problem sharing the info to get this resolved.
All, I can say to the enable/disable of those items is, there sure is a lot of Fieros running with it set that way, and GTPs that don’t have this problem. I just test drove the car I have here today with it both ways and saw no different in the way it shifted at all.
Let me send you a PCM that I have tested on this car to be prefect with no codes today. I have one hour to prepare it…
Loyde
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/18/2004 Nope, redone another PCM this morning on a 1999 PCM, with 2000 code. The code is structured different in 03 in the PCM, there are chips that the HPTuner cannot access to change some things. I fear that their PCM code cannot get to the transmission stuff properly done. I used some DHP code in the PCM you are getting. Its working the customer car I have here extremely well today, this is the same PCM I tested this morning and made sure it worked with no codes. It is once again only changed in Performance mode, so put it in normal if the shifting is a little hard to you.
I did not check the 3 buttons to FALSE on the torque management screen. I wanted you to feel comfortable in the changes, but I can tell you, I tested it both ways and saw no changes in the way it shifted. I just turn it off on Fieros because Fieros do not have wheel sensors to report TCS or Torque management.
The input shaft has the turbine speed sensor wheel on it. Then the output shaft has the input sensor for the VSS… I am sure there’s some comparison done at this level in the PCM’s.
So far, I am into $20 on shipping costs.
Paypal is OpenWheel@FastFieros.com
As far as the TAD, I scanned the PCM I have in the car now, and it reacted the same way on the shifts. Always -16 unless you floor it, or heavy type TPS movement.
Sorry my thoughts are random and not structured well, I hate to type, and my grammar is very poor.
Loyde
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/19/2004
I can fix the transmission code, but it has to be done at the hex level. I don’t like to do it however because it is a lot of trial and try and test….
If I could use the same OSID on all PCM’s that would be great, but I cant. The code in the PCM you are getting Saturday is fixed my me. I can hack that code. The PCM in the car you have now, I have not hacked that OSID so I don’t know the transmission code area.
I have the same problem with my 04 TAP shift transmission today. The auto mode is soft.. The manual mode however is great. So when I play, I have to be in manual mode.
The 04 PCM is adaptive AI shift. It will learn your driving habits and provide very nice one gear type shifts. Its really nice, but it is not performance abuse friendly.
The PCM coming to you will be firm shifting to say the least in performance mode. It is what the GTP guys like however so, I do the code for them on that.
Loyde
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/20/2004 I already tried to warn HPT that the transmission section was not working right. I proved it 3 weeks ago on a GTP to GTP swap that involved a 2001 complete powertrain to a 1998 car and lets just say a DHP PCM and HPT attempt to duplicate was not successful without me hacking the code at the hex level. I don’t like to do it that way because it decreases my confidence in HPT V6 support.
You have to understand also that putting 99-01 code in that 12202610 PCM was not the thing to do really. I have never done for myself to test, nor for anyone else I have sent PCM for swaps. The PCM starts and runs the car for sure, but it is not acting exactly right.
Loyde
This is the FIRST time Loyde said he had never done this and tested it before. Glad to find out now that my swap is the guinne pig for Loyde's learning experience. Would have been nice to know before we paid the $125 for the FIRST PCM.
Anyway, that aside, at this point PCM # 3 is on its way and I paid Loyde the $20 in shipping (2 PCM's) from him to us. To this point, total shipping costs me and my customer have paid is $40. Got the new PCM and installed it in the customer's car and walla, the transmission shifted like a dream. No P1811, no slipping. We were both happy...at least until: When my customer was getting ready to leave the check engine light came on and some codes were set. I quickly threw the scan tool on the vehicle and got 3 emissions related trouble codes. OBDII STUFF THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DISABLED BECAUSE OF THE FIERO SWAP.
At this point both I and my customer were furious. $40 out of our pockets for shipping not to mention the time to swap out the PCMs and diagnose the problems. I wrote this email to Loyde:
quote
From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:13 PM To: FastFieros Subject: New PCM test results
Loyde, installed the lastest PCM into the customer's vehicle today. Right off the bat I could tell the trans issue was fixed, gear shifts are crisp, and I can see the numbers moving on the scan tool more like what you were reporting. Even WOT shift points appear to be perfect.
However, there are a couple of problems. I am now getting a check engine light and the following trouble codes:
P0449 - EVAP Vent Valve Solenoid Control Circuit (no vent valve installed during swap) P0452 - Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (no FTP sensor installed during swap) P1260 - Fuel Pump Speed Relay Control Circuit (only using 1 fuel pump relay)
Also the speedo appears to be 5% too fast in calibration (reading 5% too fast in relation to actual speed). I am attaching a complete DTC code list for the 99 GTP for you to use a future reference since your HP Tuners won't tell you what each vehicle uses.
Now that we got that out of the way, we need to talk. My customer is extermely frustrated that now after the 3rd custom PCM, it still isn't right. I am equally frustrated because I have now spent $20 of my own shipping money and $20 of my customer's shipping money in this PCM programming debachle. Overall, between my customer and I, we are quickly approaching the amount of money (incurred shipping on inital programming cost) it would cost me to purchase the license for the 99 GTP programming (since I have purchased DHP Powrtuner already) and do the programming myself. On top of this I have spent my own money and time driving to my customer's location and swap these PCM's out for him. I am trying to keep a cool head about this but my customer is no very happy to say the least.
I am to the point that I refuse to spend any more money on shipping for PCMs. I want to know what you are going to do for us. Honestly, I feel as though we have bent over backwards and have remained flexible as long as possible but we still come back to this point: THE PCM PROGRAMMING IS NOT RIGHT. I feel personally responsible in this effort as I recommended your services to my customer based on your claims on the mailing lists and message boards concerning OBDII 3800 custom programming ability. I have been very patient and have been willing to work with you on this matter. But as I said before I have gone over my personal, and my customer's budget concerning this issue and we would like to know what you are prepared to do to make this right. My customer thinks that we should be refunded all of the shipping costs (outside of the inital shipping fee for the first custom PCM) in addition to getting another PCM that is programmed correctly for his application. I, on the other hand, understand the potential pitfalls of PCM programming and, at most, would like at least 1/2 of our shipping costs refunded with no further out-of-pocket costs for shipping to be our responsibility from here on.
The pervervial ball is in your court. Please advise us on what you are planning to do for us to make this right.
-ryan
Loyde responded:
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 11/22/2004 You better provide me a phone number since you seem to have a problem calling me…
Loyde
Woh... Hold up the train. I have a problem calling Loyde? First time I have heard about it. I hadn't called Loyde up until this point because we were communicating effectively thru email channels, or so I thought. Well anyway, I emailed Loyde with my finance's cell phone number because I was working on my website online and the cell phone time was free.
Approx 15 min later Loyde called. Right off the bat I detected a poor attitude on the phone followed by insults about how I have an "attitude" problem with talking to people on the phone. I calmly explained to Loyde that this was the first time that he had ever told me that he PREFERRED to talk on the phone because we were having trouble communicating thru emails. Well I don't know about anyone else, but sometimes it is a lot easier for me to communicate thru emails because I save all my messages and can go back and review them in case I forget anything. Appearantly some people just don't like to do this but anyway. To sum up our phone conversation, Loyde was playing a blame game with his HP Tuners software, its short commings, and the 2002 OBDII program. I questioned Loyde WHY DID YOU NEVER TELL ME ABOUT THIS FROM THE BEGINNING IF IT WAS GOING TO BE SUCH A BIG ISSUE. Thats all he had to tell me. I would have still probably utilized his services. I also explained to him that his website does not speak of any kind of issue at all with his programming. According to one of his own emails he admits he had proven there to be a problem with his tuning software on a message forum OVER 3 WEEKS AGO! When was I going to be told about it? Now me and my customer were $40 in the hole for shipping on top of the original $125 for the programming and we don't want to pay any more money for someone's learning experience. If it was $10, not $40 shipping up until this point we would not be as upset, but $40 and on top of that Loyde still wanted ME to pay to ship the remaining PCMs back to him. Also, Loyde wanted me to explain to my customer that this is a "hybrid" swap for a Fiero and it was "unrealistic" for my customer to expect it to be perfect. Thats funny, of the 9 cars I own, 7 have engine swaps and I don't have any trans issues or false check engine lights. Why is it so hard to figure out what codes each year/make/model OBDII vehicle use and turn off the ones that pertain only to sensors and subsystems not used in a Fiero swap? I am sure Loyde has access to the same info I have which gives me this complete list of enabled DTC's per vehicle make/model/year platform.
Anyway after about an hour of conversation, Loyde said he would pay for all the shipping charges here on out and send us PCM #4 with the 3 OBDII codes removed. However he admitted that he forgot to write down the numbers off PCM #3 that was in the car now so I told him I would be able to get them the following Monday after thanksgiving weekend since I was going to be out of town on a family function. After all, I don't want the cars that leave my shop to have a half-a$$ tuning job done where the check engine light is stuck on because of non-existing emissions equipment. If the check engine light comes on I want it to only be for a legitimate problem with an existing sensor or subsystem. Is that asking too much?
Anyway, while I was sitting down to a thanksgiving day get-together with family, Loyde tried to pull a sneak-attack in my L67/4T65-E swap thread in the hopes of shifting blame from himself to his tuning software and me for using a 2002 PCM in the first place. However, his post did not include the WHOLE truth. He also attempted to contact my customer directly without my knowledge, appearantly to find out the PCM numbers, or so he says. At this point I don't know what I can believe any more, I thought we had things ironed out in the phone call but I was wrong. I told him I would get him the numbers he needed on Monday, he could have waited.
In response to this I wrote Loyde a rather "unfavorable" email that contained much of the information I have told all of you in this post. I explained to him that the problem I have with him was not primarily about the programming, rather it was the fact that Loyde had omitted to use certain problems he was having with his software in programming OBDII PCMs. Furthermore, I explained to Loyde that I did not appreciate this whole "blame game" of his since he has been all over the internet forums and mailing lists telling everyone how good OBDII was and how he was trying to make himself out to be this OBDII tuning guru for engine swaps. I also told him that at this point I was content with keeping this whole matter quiet (publically) if he would drop the issue. Well he couldn't.
In response to this email he had to call my fiance's cell phone and leave a nasty message on her voicemail. My fiance was enraged by this and posted a relpy to my build thread where she was very unhappy to get this kind of message on HER cell phone. Concequently I was out of town picking up some Fiero parts in Omaha, Nebraska all day so I wasn't here to witness what happened. Soon after my fiance posted to my thread, Loyde called her on her cell phone. He proceeded to apologize because he did not know it was her phone but then started to ask her PERSONAL QUESTIONS about OUR RELATIONSHIP. After she told him that was rude he appearantly tried changing the subject and she hung up on him.
After I got back tonight from my trip, I emailed Loyde once again about his actions. I told him it was NONE OF HIS F___ING BUSINESS what my relationship was with my wife-to-be. I consider his actions to be grossly unprofessional and upsurd. I also told him in that email that he needed to cool his jets and if he just dropped the matter, I would never speak of this whole debacle publically. Well, obviously he could not resist the temptation to "save face" and had to try to pull another sneak attack in my swap thread, appearantly in an attempt to try to turn people against me for "cursing" him out in an email. Well the only cursing that happened was about his prying in me and my fiance's private lives.
After I sent that email, I got this reply:
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 12/4/2004 You are the not the person in the Fiero community I thought you were. You are not here to actually help people, but to thieve on the all mighty dollar. I had great faith in your ability for hybrid installs to recommend you to people on the east coast, but I can assure you, I will never again. You are a confused person to hide behind a keyboard to cruse and feel like a big man.. I at least face my problems best I can face to face, or when distance is a issue, by phone so no misunderstanding of context is taken.
Loyde
If I am such a theif then why have I provided PFF with so much free information and more, detailed swap threads than most anyone else? Why do I only charge $35 to do a chip or approx $2000 labor to do a turn-key swap? Why do I provide lots of FREE technical info and wiring diagrams, again FREE OF CHARGE on my website? I am a theif who hordes money? WTF??? Let this be a warning to anyone doing business with Loyde and Fast Fieros. On his website and in his message board posts he claims himself to have vast experience and knowledge in swaps and PCM programming, but this whole debacle I have experienced has made me question some of those claims. I think he needs to change his website so it reflects the limitations of his tuning software and ability, at least until he gets it right.
Again I apologize for posting such a negative topic to our PFF community forum, but I just can't tolerate these kind of actions from someone who claims to be the foremost authority on Fiero engine swaps...
-ryan
------------------ power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely. Custom Chip Burning | Fiero Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-05-2004).]
Again, I apologize to the board for having to post this. It is not my intention to destory Loyde or FastFieros but I think he has some issues he needs to work out and needs to be more open and honest with his customers. The Fiero community doesn't not have a lot of reliable vendors but we need the ones we do have to be completely honest and forthcoming about the products and services they provide.
And yes, I will be shipping the remaining PCMs back to Loyde as soon as I install and test the new one in Dizmon's car, so long as Loyde pays for the shipping as he agreed to on the phone.
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-05-2004).]
Wow man i'm sorry for your frustration & your customers. I cannot believe his business practices, and that was crossing the line asking about you & your wife to be's personal life. I am quiet glad you actually provided this story to make us aware of this guy. It wasn't a attack story, and you gave the whole story of both sides which was great. You won't beable to get your $ back which isn't cool but i'm once again sorry for the lost of time & $. I just can't believe this.......
On another note, you do transmission swaps i'm guessing right?? Do you mind if we chat about that subject cuz my Fiero is not driveable right now cuz of clutch problems. Hit me up on a PM, email or AIM(masterjosh8608) if you don't care.
Just another waste of space here on PFF, if its not one flame its another. Why can ppl not just grow up and handle there business on thier own instead of putting it on all over the net. This Forum is going downhill fast and has been for the last several months. I am sure this thread will be at least 2 pages long by tomorrow but hopefully Cliff will kill it before it gets to much farther. I could make several quotes to the above statements but it wouldnt make a differance. All I can say is everytime I have called Lyode, he has been very helpful and has never once turned me away. I have seen his work personally and am very impressed by it and the knowledge he has for the Fiero and the L-67. So with that, everybody take your wallet out, look at your birthdate on you Drv License and start acting your age.
O yeah---And dont beleive everything you read, it just may not be true.
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 12-05-2004).]
Just another waste of space here on PFF, if its not one flame its another. Why can ppl not just grow up and handle there business on thier own instead of putting it on all over the net. This Forum is going downhill fast and has been for the last several months. I am sure this thread will be at least 2 pages long by tomorrow but hopefully Cliff will kill it before it gets to much farther. I could make several quotes to the above statements but it wouldnt make a differance. All I can say is everytime I have called Lyode, he has been very helpful and has never once turned me away. I have seen his work personally and am very impressed by it and the knowledge he has for the Fiero and the L-67. So with that, everybody take your wallet out, look at your birthdate on you Drv License and start acting your age.
Obvisouly you didn't read the parts where Loyde was insulting my character and questioning my wife-to-be about her (and my) personal life. You are entitled to your opinion however I think you should get the facts straight. I am sure there are going to be all kinds of people who have had good dealings with Loyde. But I don't think those good dealings outweigh his prying into my personal life nor this statement:
quote
recieved from FastFieros@FastFieros.com on 12/4/2004
You are the not the person in the Fiero community I thought you were. You are not here to actually help people, but to thieve on the all mighty dollar. I had great faith in your ability for hybrid installs to recommend you to people on the east coast, but I can assure you, I will never again. You are a confused person to hide behind a keyboard to cruse and feel like a big man.. I at least face my problems best I can face to face, or when distance is a issue, by phone so no misunderstanding of context is taken. Loyde
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-05-2004).]
Just another waste of space here on PFF, if its not one flame its another. Why can ppl not just grow up and handle there business on thier own instead of putting it on all over the net. This Forum is going downhill fast and has been for the last several months. I am sure this thread will be at least 2 pages long by tomorrow but hopefully Cliff will kill it before it gets to much farther. I could make several quotes to the above statements but it wouldnt make a differance. All I can say is everytime I have called Lyode, he has been very helpful and has never once turned me away. I have seen his work personally and am very impressed by it and the knowledge he has for the Fiero and the L-67. So with that, everybody take your wallet out, look at your birthdate on you Drv License and start acting your age.
I am not a established member here at all. But I did make the attempt to read EVERYTHING to understand everything before I posted something so that I didn't look like a fool just cause I read bits & pieces. This isn't a flame, but you need to re-read every little thing man. I don't think it was quiet right what you posted & I think you should probably edit it & so will I once you do so.
Back onto subject. I think it was bad business for him to also you to make (well attempt) for you to pay for shipping for a 3rd time. Also he was quiet rude from reading his e-mails you posted(which like I said above, was good of you to post the WHOLE story and not some single sided attack story) and which is another bad business point of his, but people make mistakes its ok. But he went a bit to far when he left a not so nice message on the cell phone and the to personal phone call. I see this as educational and a forewarning.
Obvisouly you didn't read the parts where Loyde was insulting my character and questioning my wife-to-be about her (and my) personal life. You are entitled to your opinion however I think you should get the facts straight.
Yeah--I read everything and from what I got out of it he helped you without any complaning. He has shipped you several PCM to correct the issues you are having, do you think another tunner would have done the same?(I dont). The swap is a hybrid swap and with that comes issues , no two swaps are the same so you will find differant isssues with each swap. I kinda thought the whole $40.00 thing was funny for shipping though, I mean money is money but that is just funny to me for some reason. You do a swap for someone that cost 5 grand and it comes down to a fight over 40 big ones, yeah thats funny. As far as him insulting your character, what does that have to do with the Forum? That was between you and him, you just opened up to the whole forum by posting it on the Forum for everyone to read. As far as questioning you wife to be.........I am going to leave that one alone...... just another thing that really shouldnt have been bought up on the Forum with no proof. This is just how I see things though and this is just my opionoin and as you can see it is 3:00am in the morning and I am on here.
Hey MstangsBware, do you think that those emails from loyde were doctored? Do you really want to do business with someone who acts like that after what seems like never ending patience from a customer on Darth Fieros part? Cmon now.
I personally am glad that this board is here to warn us of shady practices. I haven't been on this board long but I haven't seen that many bashings.
This thread is told from one side, and does a good job of explaining both sides, but emails from Loyde tell quite a bit on there own about what he either didn't know or didn't disclose when he took the job.
I'll tell you what, you wouldn't be able to post here what I would reply to someone who started asking questions about my relationship to my wife. And I am pretty reserved in what I say.
This board is here to inform the Fiero community! This thread informs the community to beware of this particular businessman. If you want everything to be a bed of roses, then maybe your on the wrong board.
I am not a established member here at all. But I did make the attempt to read EVERYTHING to understand everything before I posted something so that I didn't look like a fool just cause I read bits & pieces. This isn't a flame, but you need to re-read every little thing man. I don't think it was quiet right what you posted & I think you should probably edit it & so will I once you do so.
Back onto subject. I think it was bad business for him to also you to make (well attempt) for you to pay for shipping for a 3rd time. Also he was quiet rude from reading his e-mails you posted(which like I said above, was good of you to post the WHOLE story and not some single sided attack story) and which is another bad business point of his, but people make mistakes its ok. But he went a bit to far when he left a not so nice message on the cell phone and the to personal phone call. I see this as educational and a forewarning.
Like I said, what I have typed is my opinion, just like what you have typed is yours. I have no reason to edit my post because it is my opinion and my personal thoughts. So I am cool with what you have posted so there is no reason you shouldnt be cool with my post. This is a Forum, which means things get dicussed, everyone will have differant views but that is because everyone has differant personalities.
I thanks to the person that gave me the new rating, which I am sure is a negative....................
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 12-05-2004).]
Hey MstangsBware, do you think that those emails from loyde were doctored? Do you really want to do business with someone who acts like that after what seems like never ending patience from a customer on Darth Fieros part? Cmon now.
I personally am glad that this board is here to warn us of shady practices. I haven't been on this board long but I haven't seen that many bashings.
This thread is told from one side, and does a good job of explaining both sides, but emails from Loyde tell quite a bit on there own about what he either didn't know or didn't disclose when he took the job.
I'll tell you what, you wouldn't be able to post here what I would reply to someone who started asking questions about my relationship to my wife. And I am pretty reserved in what I say.
This board is here to inform the Fiero community! This thread informs the community to beware of this particular businessman. If you want everything to be a bed of roses, then maybe your on the wrong board.
I coudn't have said it better. And Mstangsbeware, are you going to add something to say about what you quoted from me above?? I didn't quiet get your post sir...
Hey MstangsBware, do you think that those emails from loyde were doctored? Do you really want to do business with someone who acts like that after what seems like never ending patience from a customer on Darth Fieros part? Cmon now.
I personally am glad that this board is here to warn us of shady practices. I haven't been on this board long but I haven't seen that many bashings.
This thread is told from one side, and does a good job of explaining both sides, but emails from Loyde tell quite a bit on there own about what he either didn't know or didn't disclose when he took the job.
I'll tell you what, you wouldn't be able to post here what I would reply to someone who started asking questions about my relationship to my wife. And I am pretty reserved in what I say.
This board is here to inform the Fiero community! This thread informs the community to beware of this particular businessman. If you want everything to be a bed of roses, then maybe your on the wrong board.
See--this is what I stated in my first post, another thread going down in flames. All I did was post my opinion and have 2 ppl already coming at me. I am not forsure why though, it is my opinion on how I view the thread, it is ok if you dont agree with me but it doesnt mean you have to come at me. And yes I would give him my business and already have, he did my PCM and harness for my L-67.
Edit to thank the other person for the rating.......once again I sure it was negative.... kinda proves that the rating system doesnt work if you are the type of person who has an opinion and likes to express it..............
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 12-05-2004).]
And Mstangsbeware, are you going to add something to say about what you quoted from me above?? I didn't quiet get your post sir...
Sorry about that, I accidently hit the wrong button before I typed a responce(fingers are to fast for me). There is a reply to your post and no need to call me Sir, I am sure you are older than me.
Yeah--I read everything and from what I got out of it he helped you without any complaning. He has shipped you several PCM to correct the issues you are having,
I never said Loyde was UNWILLING to help me. Please point out in this post where you read this because I don't think I typed it anywhere.
quote
do you think another tunner would have done the same?(I dont).
Are you saying that Loyde is like every "other" tuner out there that takes your money and doesn't give a crap about you after they have it? That is not the major malfunction here.
quote
The swap is a hybrid swap and with that comes issues , no two swaps are the same so you will find differant isssues with each swap.
I don't have any issues with any of my cars that have "hybrid" swaps. I have done several other swaps for various customers and they don't have these kind of "issues." Guess I am just expecting too much for the proper trouble codes to be removed when I requested it. If this type of thing is beyond Loyde's ability, HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD ME BEFORE HAND.
quote
I kinda thought the whole $40.00 thing was funny for shipping though, I mean money is money but that is just funny to me for some reason. You do a swap for someone that cost 5 grand and it comes down to a fight over 40 big ones, yeah thats funny.
If you think it is so funny then why don't you send me $40 to cover the shipping? I mean you act like it isn't a big deal.
quote
As far as him insulting your character, what does that have to do with the Forum? That was between you and him, you just opened up to the whole forum by posting it on the Forum for everyone to read.
I didn't start this. I gave Loyde every opportunity to DROP IT and I would walk away as well, he decided to keep it going, in phone calls, emails, and posts in my build thread. Please don't lecture me on what this has to do with the forum, I think it is pretty self-explainitory.
quote
As far as questioning you wife to be.........I am going to leave that one alone...... just another thing that really shouldnt have been bought up on the Forum with no proof. This is just how I see things though and this is just my opionoin and as you can see it is 3:00am in the morning and I am on here.
No proof? Would you like me to go wake my wife-to-be up and have her get on here? I hope you are not trying to call her a liar.
Tell you what, looking at your location I can deduce that you are going to be Loyde's advocate and no matter what I post or say, you won't believe me. I really don't care, this post is the first you have heard of this issue but I have been living it for the past month and a half. Who do you think knows more about it?
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-05-2004).]
I'm 18 so idk whos older then who lol. I re-read your posts(since you edited them to add things) and I agree with you on the voicing your opinion thing but then thing that made me post my response was the fact you said it was going to be a flame war is why I said that man. Not hate here, just open discussion like you said(and no I didn't give you that rating if your wondering).
Just another waste of space here on PFF, if its not one flame its another. Why can ppl not just grow up and handle there business on thier own instead of putting it on all over the net.
So with that, everybody take your wallet out, look at your birthdate on you Drv License and start acting your age.
And really get started at this point.
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware: O yeah---And dont beleive everything you read, it just may not be true.
Now I am not against anyone speaking their mind, especially on subjects like this. But it seems to me that when you post things like the quotes above, your just asking for a flame war.
Not telling you how to post, but if it were me posting in your place, I would have said something like:
I have had dealings in the past with Loyde, and everything went great. Not sure what happened in this case.
Now that doesn't attack anyone, piss anyone off , and gets my point across without lowering myself to levels that we don't like to go to.
Look, I am not saying that Loyde has tried to screw everybody he has worked with. I am just telling you what happened to me and how I was treated. All this problem between Loyde and I started when I refused to pay for any more shipping due to someone's screw up in reprogramming. I don't want to hear any more excuses about how his software is at fault. If that is the case then pay for the shipping and fix it. I don't think its right for us (my customer and I) to pay for shipping because of someone's faulty software that caused a mistake. And I certainly don't think there is ANY POSSIBLE justification for the prying into my fiance's personal life and the rudeness and insults.
Again, even after all this I will still send Loyde back the two PCMs that belong to him. I am not a dishonest person.
And I certainly don't think there is ANY POSSIBLE justification for the prying into my fiance's personal life and the rudeness and insults.
This is what turned me off....I would posibly give my business to someone after hearing a story like yours (posibly). But there is no excuse for that kind of action by anyone for any reason.
No proof? Would you like me to go wake my wife-to-be up and have her get on here? I hope you are not trying to call her a liar.
Tell you what, looking at your location I can deduce that you are going to be Loyde's advocate and no matter what I post or say, you won't believe me. I really don't care, this post is the first you have heard of this issue but I have been living it for the past month and a half. Who do you think knows more about it?
Yes--every hybrid swap has its problems, may be during build up or might end up being the tunning of it to get it just right but evey swap has its problems. Going off memory it seems like you had issues with a flywheel and some mounts tearing apart on a swap or two(going off memory, I might have the wrong person), these are considered problems. If you are in need of $40.00 that bad shoot me your address in a Pm and I will get you a Postal Money Order sent out, no big deal. I am not siding with Lyode becasue I am from Dallas, I am just stating my opinion about the thread and the dealings I have had with him. No need to wake anyone up, I left that subject alone and will continue too. And hopfully you know more about what is going on than I do becasue I only know what you have posted.
I'm 18 so idk whos older then who lol. I re-read your posts(since you edited them to add things) and I agree with you on the voicing your opinion thing but then thing that made me post my response was the fact you said it was going to be a flame war is why I said that man. Not hate here, just open discussion like you said(and no I didn't give you that rating if your wondering).
You got me on the age thing, I am a little older. Never any hate here just open friendly disscusion.
Now I am not against anyone speaking their mind, especially on subjects like this. But it seems to me that when you post things like the quotes above, your just asking for a flame war.
Not telling you how to post, but if it were me posting in your place, I would have said something like:
I have had dealings in the past with Loyde, and everything went great. Not sure what happened in this case.
Now that doesn't attack anyone, piss anyone off , and gets my point across without lowering myself to levels that we don't like to go to.
Everyone percives things differant and there is no way around that one a Forum. The way you read and take something may be totally oppisite of how another on takes it. That is because everyone has differant personalities, so there really is no real way to please everyone by what you post. You just have to post your opinoin and go with it, no reason to get riled up about it.
EDIT---Have recived a total of 3 ratings since I started posting in this thread...........WOW
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 12-05-2004).]
I'm not really going into this but I'd be very hesitant, even if every word you've said is completely true, to called Loyde's business practices "shady"... He may not have have told you the complete detail of every tiny little thing, including about his expierience about this exact thing... but does the guy at McDonalds need to tell you that your french fries are the first french fries of the day and because the oil is not as thoroughly heated, as not as used, your fries might taste a little different? If they did taste different, unsatisfactorily so, then you complained and got more and more replacement fries until you thoight they were perfect, would you be upset enough to post about it on Billy's French Fry Forum?
And as far as the shipping costs go... You buy a pair of pants from a catalog. They don't fit you as well as you would like, no matter how great the company or product is, you sent the pants back and want an exchange for another style. You pay the shipping for the return and the new pants. No matter the product the shipping is covered by the purchaser. Now I understand that this is different than pants, but maybe your car has the equivilent of funny shaped hips?
No problem man, glad this isn't getting to hot here and that it toned down a bit more to a calm converse of words.
To make it better for the people who do not agree with Darth's telling of the whole story(which I think personally was great that he showed both sides) maybe it would be best if Lloyd himself came & posted here if he's a PFF member as i'm taking he is from the post Darth made about him posting in threads. Like Mstangsbware said, everyone is entitled to there opinion BUT keep it clean like slickrick2000 posted a few posts above(read to see what I mean).
Well given its was origanally posted at 3:18 AM i doubt loyde will post but can say this seems unusual as loyde has been doing bussiness for many years on this forum and i never saw a complaint before.
Not taken sides but I do know loyde on a very limited basis also know he comes across harsh alot sometimes but is very helpful in most cases
seems more of a misunderstanding than anything else
Material like this makes me almost laugh at the maturity you? 30-40 yr old business men? What is this forum to you Darth? An escape? All you have done is tried to publicly tarnish Loyde's rep. Tell me, who else reprograms OBDIIs? People on the Grand Prix sites? There are numerous changes the must be made and accounted for when trying to use 2000 equip and electronics in a 20 yr old car. Loyde is, as far as I'm aware of, the ONLY one who has reprogrammed the OBDII to work in the fiero... does that mean nothing? If you were pioneering the reprogramming of PCMs, do you think you could get it 100% right for every car? I could almost guarantee you could not...there are factors changing every swap, without actually having the car, proper tuning is a hit or miss, all you can do is try something out.
Who am I to talk? I am one of Loyde's past customers, he drove several hundred miles to pick up my car, and trailored it back to me when completed. There were a couple of bumps along the way, but nothing talking and explaining things out didn’t resolve. He had my car for 2 months, installed and properly tuned my car. Upon arrival of my car back there were some idle issues with the climate and elevation changes, rather then make it a public issue, I called Loyde up and in 2 days I had a new PCM, plugged it in and it has worked great since.
I have nothing but praise for the work Loyde did on my car and his ability to promptly deal with issues. However, you made this a public issue when it was not needed. Personal or business... needs to be taken care of in private. Personally I don’t care what was said, it should have been taken care of in a more professional and private manner.
I have nothing against you Darth, you are a respected member of this forum, but coming on here to post matters which do not concern this forum is asking for trouble. I don't agree with the "people need to be aware"...No, when the situation is completely taken care of, that would be the time to post.
Best of luck to you both....I hope you can work out something IN PRIVATE.
...Nothing to say about the other character, but I kind of feel you Darth...you should have just bought the DHP tuner...no bells, no whistles, no fancy graphs...but it is a well tuned and 3800 SPECIFIC suite...not the other way round! Folks here aren't really concerned about the underlying issue...what if that were your own car...and god forbid because nobody else does OBD2 programming in fieros your engine pops and the problem can be related to the 'reprogram' do you chunk it up to "oh things happen"? Anyways this I am sure is not the place for it regardless but it is a BB... Ryan you will find the DHP suite to be a better program...hope your issues are resolved...
"In the land of the blind, is the man with one eye the king"?
------------------ 3800 II v6 intercooled turbo...CWP!
sorry to hear Ryan, concering the last part I think the work you've done in the past has been damn good! and 35 for a chip burn you can't beat that, I know other places for a chip burn want a couple hundred.
hopefully you get the issues worked out on the ECM and everything else squared away. Both of you offer help just in different areas of the states which is a plus to any fiero person.
If you're on the cutting edge, you'll bleed a lot. I'm sorry you made this public because it detracts from our forum. Both of you have thrown mud and it sticks. People will remember. The facts will get lost but the name calling will remain. I'm guessing both were frustrated, tired of trying to solve the problem, and vented. I'm a ninth grade science teacher. I get frustrated a lot. Both of you need to work on business skills, which means you don't get so emotional. I've made enemies of students by one badly chosen statement. They're looking for revenge the rest of the school term. I pay big time. They relay their resentment to younger students. I'm not the best school teacher. This same thing may happen with your potential customers. Instead of sharing a larger customer base, you both may have cut down on the number of people willing to pay for what seems like a troublesome swap.
Darth, I believe you made a mistake with this thread. Next time you might want to wait three days and carefully think of the consquences.
I wish both of you success in the future as Fiero vendors.
Well, they always say there's 2 side to every story. Mine is much more entertaining to some of the things he posted. I will get Word fired up and start my 2 page post about this.... Arrgh, I hate to type...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Added below after about 2 hours of getting the facts best I can.... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Loyde’s side……. AT the end of this is my closing on the subject…. Wow, this post is long…
Ryan sent me a PCM and a very nice outline on the parameters he wanted to have changed. Once I saw the PCM was 12209624 I knew this was a late model PCM. Now here’s were the story already starts changing….
I called Ryan and thank him for the nice parameter sheet on the changes. He indicated he knew what I needed because he goes though the problems with OBDI programming. Well, he forgot the size of the tires in inches, if I was going to change the speedo calibration part. He even admitted on the phone that he should have indicated that. Then our conversation turns to the PCM. I plainly told him at this point that programming a 2002 PCM with 99/00 code is not recommended, for one reason, I have never done it before and not sure how it will react. His comment was it is what the CUSTOMER provided, and it what will be used. I said fine with me. So it was on to programming 12209624 as outlined in the below letter…..
Heres the letter Ryan sent…
Now to this point me and Ryan have exchanged about 8 emails and one phone call. The emails are : Start at the bottom of ALL the quotes and read UP…
quote
ok well we will have to see what happens. I have a nice OTC 4000enhanced scan tool but my cart only goes up to 97, I am watching a 99 and 2001 cart's on eBay so I will prolly pick one up anyway. ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 10:21 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
I have uploaded many PCM’s here personally, and have only come across 3 PCM’s that set the P1336 code. No drivability change on the PCM”s that I did the CASE learn on for the heck of it. I say you should not see a problem.
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 12:38 AM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Quick question, you said you were going to upload the 2000 program to this pcm. Will I have to do the CASE learn procedure?
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:58 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
You PCM shipped today priority mail.
I can program it anyway you like up or down. Just remember, I am having to go by your tuning recommendations. I suggest a A or B type PCM approach. It is simple for me to program the PCM, but shipping and time sucks. We need 2 PCM;s and I can program them just a little different so you can compare the 2 and decide on a final.
You will have to send the PCM you have so I can pull the code, then I will make changes and then program a 2nd PCM also if I have one that matches the hardware and service numbers.
$125 bucks will cover the tuning and I will provide a 2nd PCM for development. IF you decide you want to keep the development PCM for a spare, add $75.
I wont ask for a core deposit as I trust you that you will return the 2nd PCM when we have decided on the final code that makes the car run the best. I hate someone not being to drive there car just because the PCM needs service.
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:56 AM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Have a question for you, Loyde. I have a friend who has a 99 Regal GSE with the L67 and some mods. He recently ordered an Intense PCM but is having issues with getting Intense to make the changes HE wants, in short they won't do it.
I need to know if and how much to reprogram a 99 Regal computer to work with the following mods:
-stock 99 L67 -stock 36lb injectors -1.9 roller rocker arms -ported front exhaust manifold -custom 3" downpipe, all factory restrictions removed -3" cat -2.5" cat-back exhaust with magnaflow muffler -stock trans -4" cold air induction w/ K&N
basically the issue he is having is it is running slightly too lean. O2 voltage starts off at 0.890 but drops to 0.860 by the top of 3rd gear. KR is always around 6-8 degrees but gets worse the leaner the fuel gets. Injector pulse width is only 18ms and I understand 21ms is about the limit until you need bigger injectors. The problem is Intense won't give him any more fuel because they "insist" there is something wrong with his car. Well we have scanned the car, checked the volume/pressure output of the fuel pump under WOT, and everything checks out. Only thing Intense wants to do is refund his money. So basically we are looking for someone else to do PCM programming. Need a price and if you can do it and what all you need.
-ryan
One thing to notice, NO WHERE in any of the emails prior to the actual time I get the PCM in my hands do I know it is a 12209624
So now we are at 11/11/04 … here is the email from Ryan
quote
Loyde, finally got the car running today and I have a check engine light and some codes.
There is only one code that is causing the check engine light to come on and stay on after two startup cycles:
PO140 HO2S Sensor 2 Circuit Insufficient Activity
I can clear this code out and it will keep the SES light off until I start and run the car for a second time.
I also have 2 other hard faults but they are not currently causing a check engine light:
P0463 Fuel Level Sensor Circuit High Voltage P0656 Fuel Level Output Circuit
Also the coolant fan constantly runs once the coolant temp hits about 188 degrees F. This engine is using sthe stock 195 thermostat so I need to bump the fan on/off temps up a little. This engine seems to like to run at about 192-196 so I think the fans should turn on at 204 and off at 198. (I have both fan outputs wired to two seperate relays that activate the OEM Fiero single fan relay.
Let me know if there is anything you can do for me. Thanks.
-ryan
So we have one code that is causing the check engine light. P0140 .. I actually turned off the Sensor 2 codes, but since this is a 2002 PCM with 99/00 code, the DTC clear code flag did not work. That was clue one to me there might be a code problem in this PCM.
Now Ryan decides that the Temps are wrong and he is the one that specified those. The stock GTP is a 195 T stat just like every other late model car. The temps in the PCM are set to 210 on, and 220 off. He requests lowering the temps, and do what I do for other Fieros… Well that is 188 on, and 195 off.
No where did he SPECIFY and number until the above email.
So on 11/12 this is the email from Ryan
quote
So does this mean you can't turn off P0140?
I couldn't remember what I told to you to set the fans by but it was my fault because I was assuming the owner had changed or was going to change to a 180 stat. Let me ask him if he wants a 180 stat or wants to keep the 195. Will advise.
The alternator failed on this car as well shortly after I got it on the road so I will need to see how long the customer is going take with the parts (he bought a new alternator and it is going to have to be warrantied, but I am going to try to talk him into buying a better brand if I can). Please check on your stock it sounds like the cross-ship might be a more viable option. Let me know what you need from me to do this.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:37 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
Well, don’t see P0140 that I can remember…. Darn…
None of the codes are drivability thankfully.
Fan temps are set for 188 as you noted…
Most people run the 160 or 180 Tstat….
I will set it all to your liking..
Just ship it back with $10 to cover return shipping..
I can cross ship one if you want to just send that one and I just keep it. Hopefully I will have a PCM in stock with the same service number and hardware number. I have many PCMs..
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:03 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Loyde, finally got the car running today and I have a check engine light and some codes.
There is only one code that is causing the check engine light to come on and stay on after two startup cycles:
PO140 HO2S Sensor 2 Circuit Insufficient Activity
I can clear this code out and it will keep the SES light off until I start and run the car for a second time.
I also have 2 other hard faults but they are not currently causing a check engine light:
P0463 Fuel Level Sensor Circuit High Voltage P0656 Fuel Level Output Circuit
Also the coolant fan constantly runs once the coolant temp hits about 188 degrees F. This engine is using sthe stock 195 thermostat so I need to bump the fan on/off temps up a little. This engine seems to like to run at about 192-196 so I think the fans should turn on at 204 and off at 198. (I have both fan outputs wired to two seperate relays that activate the OEM Fiero single fan relay.
Let me know if there is anything you can do for me. Thanks.
-ryan
OK, this is really killing me to type all this and justify myself on this issue…. Lets fast forward to 11/15
I had a PCM programmed and shipped before I heard from Ryan again on the 15th…
OK.. here are all the emails in one email conversation….. This is what took place in this 3 days….
quote
Ok well I will try normal mode. Wiring is set up per 99 GTP diagrams. What I will probably do is just give the car back to the customer because when the snow hits he is not going to drive it. At that time he can iron out the PCM with you if he so chooses.
Thanks.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 6:07 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
One of the problems might be the code. The PCM is a late model PCM. 03 might have adaptive shifts, but the 97-02 does not. I know my 04 Series III does have adaptive shift for sure.
The code in the PCM is 2000 to avoid the Passkey issues. HPTuner claims to have resolved the Passkey with Version 1.5.0, but had to release 1.5.1 one day later because of a problem with Passkey.
Most likely should have setup a PCM from 99-01 like I normally do and try that on your wiring. I setup all my installs with 99 wiring, and 99 PCM code. Wiring was the same really 99-02. I know some 98 wiring can use the 99-02 PCM’s as well.
I have already reshipped you a PCM. It is changed for the codes you indicated. Temp changes also.
The performance shift mode is firmed up, but not that much compared to what DHP changes it to. The normal mode is just that still, stock. If you are in normal mode and experiencing a problem, but is either the PCM/CODE do to the wiring, or the wiring, or the transmission has issues internally.
Just call if you want to chat about it.
Loyde 972-880-6643
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 3:55 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Hey Loyde, I was wondering if you got the PCM shipped yet. The reason why is because I was able to drive the car a little today and now in addition to the 3 codes I told you about it popped up a P1811 Max Adaptive Long Shift code which defaults to max line pressure. The trans was a little lazy but got better the more I drove it. I think I told you to firm up the shifts a little for the original program but I don't know what has to be done for the adaptive shift parameters. Let me know your thoughts.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
I have one… I will send it Monday priority mail. Please note any other changes over the weekend you want..
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 10:38 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
Service number is 12209624 Hardware number is 12202610
I need the following codes removed:
P0140 -- this one is critical (causes MIL) P0463 P0656
Also need the fan(s) to turn on at 204 F and off at 198 F because we are going to keep the 195 stat. Please let me know if we can do this cross-ship thing and how early you can have me the reprogrammed PCM. Let me know what I need to do (payment, etc).
Thanks, -ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 8:18 AM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
Sure I can turn off all the codes that show up if they are in the list of DTC’s..
Now, I cant just randomly turn off codes… Lets say P0146 is listed in the below list. Lets say I set it to OFF and no error reported. It wants to write code somewhere in the Hex for that. Problem is, this list also applys to V8 code. HPT built a generic list of codes rather than sort them by OSID. DHP is sorting theirs by OSID so if the code exist in that OSID of that PCM, it is safe to turn off. Even DHP using GM’s MemCal engineering cannot just turn off every code in the list for the same reason.
I need the Service Number and Hardware Number on that white tag on the PCM.
Thanks,
Loyde
OK, now Ryan is testing the replacement PCM
quote
OTC Monitor 4000 Enhanced, 99 Pathfinder
----- Original Message ----- From: "FastFieros" <FastFieros@FastFieros.com> To: <darthfiero@worldnet.att.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: RE: PCM/TRANS PROBLEMS might be resolved
> Good deal.. I will test the other PCM just to see results on my end and > FYI... > > What are you using to scan with? > > Loyde > > > -----Original Message----- > From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:02 PM > To: Pete Disbennet; FastFieros@FastFieros.com > Subject: PCM/TRANS PROBLEMS might be resolved > > The new PCM showed up today and I installed it. The fuel level and > post-cat > > O2 codes are gone. I drove the car about 30 miles combined city/hwy > driving > > and so far no P1811 trans code. In fact the shifts seem to be a little > healthier compared to the other computer. I am going to let the car sit > for > > a little while and go back out and drive it some more to verify everything > is ok. > > With the old computer my scan data for the trans was showing: > > Current Adaptive Cel: would get as high as 120+ durning the shifts > Current Adaptive Mem: would be fixed at -15 > > > I installed the new computer and right away the Current Adaptive Mem was > at -16. During the drive cycle I noticed it would sometimes move > to -14, -15, -16 but would usually stay around -15. I am doing some > research into what this number means, so far I have not come up with > anything. However I have noticed now the Current Adaptive cell only gets > as > > high as 50-60 during the shifts (agressive driving) but most of the time > it > only goes up to about 20. > > Will do some more testing and advise. The original PCM got shipped out > today back to Loyde via Priority Mail. > > -ryan > >
Now lets move to Ryan is happy, and general email conversation….
quote
yes he took the car home this weekend to free up my shop space. once the PCM gets here I am going to drive to his place and try it out. ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:48 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
Who has the car now? I see the customer has drove the car, did he take it?
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:20 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
not a problem and I want you to understand that I am not trying to blame anyone for this issue. At this point I just hope it is a problem with the newer computers and not the trans. I will let you know when I get and test out the latest computer. Shipping cost money is on the way.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:02 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
Nope, redone another PCM this morning on a 1999 PCM, with 2000 code. The code is structured different in 03 in the PCM, there are chips that the HPTuner cannot access to change some things. I fear that their PCM code cannot get to the transmission stuff properly done. I used some DHP code in the PCM you are getting. Its working the customer car I have here extremely well today, this is the same PCM I tested this morning and made sure it worked with no codes. It is once again only changed in Performance mode, so put it in normal if the shifting is a little hard to you.
I did not check the 3 buttons to FALSE on the torque management screen. I wanted you to feel comfortable in the changes, but I can tell you, I tested it both ways and saw no changes in the way it shifted. I just turn it off on Fieros because Fieros do not have wheel sensors to report TCS or Torque management.
The input shaft has the turbine speed sensor wheel on it. Then the output shaft has the input sensor for the VSS… I am sure there’s some comparison done at this level in the PCM’s.
So far, I am into $20 on shipping costs.
Paypal is OpenWheel@FastFieros.com
As far as the TAD, I scanned the PCM I have in the car now, and it reacted the same way on the shifts. Always -16 unless you floor it, or heavy type TPS movement.
Sorry my thoughts are random and not structured well, I hate to type, and my grammar is very poor.
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 4:19 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
ok, not a problem. Just so we are on the same page, are you sending the PCM that showed TAD Memory capable of reaching "-4"? Also, what year is the PCM you are sending?
I will let you know when it gets here and when I do the testing. Also, please let me know what the testing reveals using the PCM I sent you yesterday.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
Not a problem sharing the info to get this resolved.
All, I can say to the enable/disable of those items is, there sure is a lot of Fieros running with it set that way, and GTPs that don’t have this problem. I just test drove the car I have here today with it both ways and saw no different in the way it shifted at all.
Let me send you a PCM that I have tested on this car to be prefect with no codes today. I have one hour to prepare it…
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:04 PM To: FastFieros@FastFieros.com Subject: Fw: custom OBDII programming
----- Original Message ----- From: Powertrip186@aol.com To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: Re: Fw: custom OBDII programming
I see that master enable is false and so are the other two enables. From my experience, they have to be ON, or at least the torque management and master enable, and I go into the Performance table and tune that to make it work. Hope your next pcm works out ok, but I would NOT turn all the enables to false, I would tell him to leave them be if it still does it.
Loyde, this email is being forwarded to you from my trans builder, the one who I discussed my unique issue with. He is using HP Tuners for his 98 PCM. Let me know your thoughts.
-ryan
Now more general conversation for your pleasure to read…
quote
Something else that came to my mind. I wonder if there is something funny with the 2002-up trannys. I did a L32 series III swap into my friend's 97 GTP not too long ago using a 2003 trans that only had about 2000 miles on it and it had really lazy shifts. I am wondering if GM used some different accumulator springs or pressure reg valve springs in the newer trannys. He was running an Intense PCM with "upgraded" shift improvements and it was still very lazy. I added some springs to his shift accumulators which seemed to help the shift feel issue.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 12:48 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
Who has the car now? I see the customer has drove the car, did he take it?
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:20 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
not a problem and I want you to understand that I am not trying to blame anyone for this issue. At this point I just hope it is a problem with the newer computers and not the trans. I will let you know when I get and test out the latest computer. Shipping cost money is on the way.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:02 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
Nope, redone another PCM this morning on a 1999 PCM, with 2000 code. The code is structured different in 03 in the PCM, there are chips that the HPTuner cannot access to change some things. I fear that their PCM code cannot get to the transmission stuff properly done. I used some DHP code in the PCM you are getting. Its working the customer car I have here extremely well today, this is the same PCM I tested this morning and made sure it worked with no codes. It is once again only changed in Performance mode, so put it in normal if the shifting is a little hard to you.
I did not check the 3 buttons to FALSE on the torque management screen. I wanted you to feel comfortable in the changes, but I can tell you, I tested it both ways and saw no changes in the way it shifted. I just turn it off on Fieros because Fieros do not have wheel sensors to report TCS or Torque management.
The input shaft has the turbine speed sensor wheel on it. Then the output shaft has the input sensor for the VSS… I am sure there’s some comparison done at this level in the PCM’s.
So far, I am into $20 on shipping costs.
Paypal is OpenWheel@FastFieros.com
As far as the TAD, I scanned the PCM I have in the car now, and it reacted the same way on the shifts. Always -16 unless you floor it, or heavy type TPS movement.
Sorry my thoughts are random and not structured well, I hate to type, and my grammar is very poor.
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 4:19 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: custom OBDII programming
ok, not a problem. Just so we are on the same page, are you sending the PCM that showed TAD Memory capable of reaching "-4"? Also, what year is the PCM you are sending?
I will let you know when it gets here and when I do the testing. Also, please let me know what the testing reveals using the PCM I sent you yesterday.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: RE: custom OBDII programming
Not a problem sharing the info to get this resolved.
All, I can say to the enable/disable of those items is, there sure is a lot of Fieros running with it set that way, and GTPs that don’t have this problem. I just test drove the car I have here today with it both ways and saw no different in the way it shifted at all.
Let me send you a PCM that I have tested on this car to be prefect with no codes today. I have one hour to prepare it…
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:04 PM To: FastFieros@FastFieros.com Subject: Fw: custom OBDII programming
----- Original Message ----- From: Powertrip186@aol.com To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: Re: Fw: custom OBDII programming
I see that master enable is false and so are the other two enables. From my experience, they have to be ON, or at least the torque management and master enable, and I go into the Performance table and tune that to make it work. Hope your next pcm works out ok, but I would NOT turn all the enables to false, I would tell him to leave them be if it still does it.
Loyde, this email is being forwarded to you from my trans builder, the one who I discussed my unique issue with. He is using HP Tuners for his 98 PCM. Let me know your thoughts.
-ryan
Now we chat about HP Tuners…
quote
well thanks for the heads up. I was going to originally go with HP Tuners but I have heard from others that their support sucks (sounds like you ran into this). ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:50 PM Subject: RE: OLD PCM tested
At this point with HPT not supporting my requests and offering resolution to problems I have noted to them, I recommend DHP. They specialize in V6 and have better tuning parameters. The software is a behind still, a little slower in loading to the PCM, but that should catch up soon.
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:44 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: OLD PCM tested
Huh, I was unaware you were having issues with the HP Tuners. I was thinking of purchasing my own OBDII programming software soon for 97 GTP and 99 Regal, but was planning to go with DHP's Powrtuner.
Have you ever used DHP Powrtuner and if so how does it compare with HP Tuners?
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:29 PM Subject: RE: OLD PCM tested
I already tried to warn HPT that the transmission section was not working right. I proved it 3 weeks ago on a GTP to GTP swap that involved a 2001 complete powertrain to a 1998 car and lets just say a DHP PCM and HPT attempt to duplicate was not successful without me hacking the code at the hex level. I don’t like to do it that way because it decreases my confidence in HPT V6 support.
You have to understand also that putting 99-01 code in that 12202610 PCM was not the thing to do really. I have never done for myself to test, nor for anyone else I have sent PCM for swaps. The PCM starts and runs the car for sure, but it is not acting exactly right.
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:29 PM To: FastFieros Subject: Re: OLD PCM tested
ok will try it out monday and advise. wonder what the issue is with that PCM and the crappier shifts and no TAP adjustment. huh, if I were you I would advise HP Tuners of the problem so they can either find a fix or put the word out to their customers.
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 5:28 PM Subject: OLD PCM tested
I tested the PCM you sent back.. I did not get the P1811 code, but in my opinion it shifted to slow. The adaptive TAP never moved from -16.
The code runs different in the 99-01 PCM’s is all I can figure. I will not let that happen again. I just programmed what you sent with what works for all the other ones, but I will not program 12202610 with that code again.
Hopefully the new PCM resolves your problem shifting as I think it should now.
Loyde
Now on this day…. Wow, what an email I get… 11/22/04
quote
Don't have a problem calling you, in fact I assumed this was the way you preferred to communicate. What gave you the idea I didn't want to call you?
You can call my cell number for the next 2 hours, I plan to be up that long doing work here on the PC. Currently, it is 10pm my time. 563-343-???? ( edited by LOYDE because this is the girlfriends cell number)
-ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:53 PM Subject: RE: New PCM test results
You better provide me a phone number since you seem to have a problem calling me…
Loyde
________________________________________ From: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net [mailto:darthfiero@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:13 PM To: FastFieros Cc: pdisbennet@kresscarrier.com Subject: New PCM test results
Loyde, installed the lastest PCM into the customer's vehicle today. Right off the bat I could tell the trans issue was fixed, gear shifts are crisp, and I can see the numbers moving on the scan tool more like what you were reporting. Even WOT shift points appear to be perfect.
However, there are a couple of problems. I am now getting a check engine light and the following trouble codes:
P0449 - EVAP Vent Valve Solenoid Control Circuit (no vent valve installed during swap) P0452 - Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (no FTP sensor installed during swap) P1260 - Fuel Pump Speed Relay Control Circuit (only using 1 fuel pump relay)
Also the speedo appears to be 5% too fast in calibration (reading 5% too fast in relation to actual speed). I am attaching a complete DTC code list for the 99 GTP for you to use a future reference since your HP Tuners won't tell you what each vehicle uses.
Now that we got that out of the way, we need to talk. My customer is extermely frustrated that now after the 3rd custom PCM, it still isn't right. I am equally frustrated because I have now spent $20 of my own shipping money and $20 of my customer's shipping money in this PCM programming debachle. Overall, between my customer and I, we are quickly approaching the amount of money (incurred shipping on inital programming cost) it would cost me to purchase the license for the 99 GTP programming (since I have purchased DHP Powrtuner already) and do the programming myself. On top of this I have spent my own money and time driving to my customer's location and swap these PCM's out for him. I am trying to keep a cool head about this but my customer is no very happy to say the least.
I am to the point that I refuse to spend any more money on shipping for PCMs. I want to know what you are going to do for us. Honestly, I feel as though we have bent over backwards and have remained flexible as long as possible but we still come back to this point: THE PCM PROGRAMMING IS NOT RIGHT. I feel personally responsible in this effort as I recommended your services to my customer based on your claims on the mailing lists and message boards concerning OBDII 3800 custom programming ability. I have been very patient and have been willing to work with you on this matter. But as I said before I have gone over my personal, and my customer's budget concerning this issue and we would like to know what you are prepared to do to make this right. My customer thinks that we should be refunded all of the shipping costs (outside of the inital shipping fee for the first custom PCM) in addition to getting another PCM that is programmed correctly for his application. I, on the other hand, understand the potential pitfalls of PCM programming and, at most, would like at least 1/2 of our shipping costs refunded with no further out-of-pocket costs for shipping to be our responsibility from here on.
The pervervial ball is in your court. Please advise us on what you are planning to do for us to make this right.
-ryan
This is where me and Ryan have our 2nd phone conversation in all this time, but I have tried to call the other number he provided and just get a busy signal and no voice mail. I call the EDITED number above and we have a 78.16 minute conversation about OBDII and just general Fiero stuff. We part ways as friends trying to resolve a customer problem that I have taken on as a problem to help fix. This is now 11/23 and I don’t have the PCM tag number for the new PCM I sent…. This is part of the conversation that Ryan will get it. I wait until 11/25 and still no email.. I suspected that the PCM was a 09380717, which I did not have another one in stock… I emailed Pete Disbennet to get a phone number from him to ask the tag number. Ryan had included Pete in several emails as a CC.. Pete was part of this conversation as far as I was concerned. It was purely my intentions to help get this resolve and NOT cause any delays. I purchased a 09380717 2nd day air shipping to my house on a Friday to get it Monday. Pete emails me his phone number on Monday 11/29…. HOWEVER Ryan emails me this email on 11/29 also…
quote
Tag on PCM in the car now says:
Service Number 09380717 HDW Number 09357440
The only trouble codes that are coming up and we need disabled are:
P0449 P0452 P1260
Other than that engine has been running fine and trans shifts great. Please ship PCM to my address:
Ryan Gick 2503 W 68th St Davenport, IA 52806
----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 12:33 AM Subject: RE: New PCM test results
Ok, lets just get this guys car running 100%, and hopefully it will be resolved with the next PCM…
Service number on the white tag so I can duplicate it. It was only one of 2 choices, but I was in too big hurry to get the PCM to you that day and forgot to write it down.
I am awaiting your return from your vacation to send the PCM so it does not sit on your doorstep is what I remember you indicating also.
Nice to finally chat with you via phone. I really hate to type, and emails are taken so wrong, just like postings on the forums…
Thanks….
Loyde
Now, I have no real reason to call Pete, so I don’t….
11/30 I get an email from Pete… (sorry pete to quote you, I will edit your phone number)
quote
I sent you a reply but did not here from you. Let me know when you would like to call or send me a e-mail at my home as this is my work e-mail address and I leave work at 3:30 pm central time. disbenet@??????????.net 309-289-???? ( edited by LOYDE because it is Pete’s number and email address)
Walter (Pete) Disbennett -----Original Message----- From: FastFieros [mailto:FastFieros@FastFieros.com] Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 10:34 AM To: Pete Disbennet Subject: regarding your 3800sc I would like to chat with you via phone.
Please provide me a number and time to call. I will wait until maybe Saturday, or your convenience.
Thanks Loyde 972-880-6643
Now… its 11/30… I still do not call Pete, because I really didn’t have anything to say…
Now … its 12/1 … Pete CALLS me… I am driving down the road and I have to pull over to have a decent conversation with him to avoid cell site jumping… The conversation was about 20 minutes, and it just entailed me explaining the problems with OBDII programming today, but in general all issues can be worked out with time… He was satisfied with that, and we ended the conversation as friends.
Then on 12/3 I send a email to Ryan to ask if all is going well with the new PCM…. I get this email …..
quote
Got the PCM yesterday unfortuneately Pete has prior obligations this weekend so I won't get to install it until monday. About the "typical" threads concerning personal service for PCM programming....
There is a reason why we (my customer and I) came to you. It was because you claimed to be the best (in a manner of speaking at least concerning the Fiero), and you were all over the message boards and 3800 mailing lists telling everyone how good you were and how great OBDII is. I can even think of a specific thread on Pennocks where you were trying to convince FieroX to switch to OBDII since it is "so much better".
Well here we are. You are not DHP and you are not Intense so why are you trying to compare yourself with them? There is a reason WHY I didn't select Intense, I thought I explained that to you on the phone. I came to you because you said you had experience with this type of tuning and you could get the job done "NO PROBLEM". I took those words in your email at face value and that is what I told my customer.
Look, I am not a dumbass. I have been doing chips for over 4 years now and I have come a long way in this business. I don't profess to be an expert in this field but I do have a college degree in high performance automotive which, at the very least, has taught me to MAKE IT CLEAR to my customers that this type of job can't be perfect unless the car is here where I can spend a day tuning it, at least as far as trying to tune heavily modded engines is concerned. Just diabling VATS and turning off a few trouble codes does not require a lot of "seat time" to get right. I don't want to hear any more excuses about your software and this generic DTC list BS. I am sure you have access to the same online GM service manual data that I do, and it has the complete trouble code list used per year/make/model vehicle system you are working with. In addition to this, you own the tuning software, and according to you, you have been working with OBDII for over 2 years so you should know what you are doing. If you don't or your software is "buggy", then maybe you should list that info on your website so this sort of thing doesn't happen to you again. At the very least, you could have told me in that FIRST email about the limitations of your software in disabling trouble codes.
Again Loyde, nothing personal here but I did not appreciate the tone you took with me in the beginning of our phone conversation NOR did I appreciate you going behind my back to talk to MY customer without my knowledge. What kind of crap are you trying to pull? Enough with the BS, I am willing to overlook these issues we have had if you can manage to keep your mouth shut about how great OBDII is and how YOU can do ANYTHING with it, because that is not the truth. I think our experience with this whole deal is proof of that.
Anyway, once I have installed and tested this latest PCM and it meets to my customer's satisfaction, I will be happy to ship the 2 "incorrect" PCMs back to you once you have paid for the shipping.
Happy Holidays,
-ryan
----- Original Message ----- From: FastFieros To: darthfiero@worldnet.att.net Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:24 PM Subject: PCM get to you ok?
Checking on your progress getting with Pete again on the PCM..
Here is a typical thread that people deal with when getting personal service for PCM programming.
There are many on CGP about DHP and Intense both. They have a base configuration that gets the job done, but when it comes to the custom stuff it takes weeks.
Loyde
It appears Ryan cannot pick up a phone and have an intelligent conversation when he has a problem…
So now 12/4 I decide to call the only working number I have and now I find out its his girlfriends. HERES the story you all have been waiting for… What did I say to this girl in response to the posting she made to this thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055969-3.html
I called the girlfriend (heather) number and left this voice mail in response to the above email…..
The greeting was GENERIC…. No female voice, No this is heathers phone… Completely unknown to me that this was Heathers voice mail… I left this message…..
Ryan, I am not trying to go behind your back and have a conversation with Pete. I called Pete to get the service number of the PCM.. He emailed back after I got the numbers from you, and I did not call Pete. PETE called me. The voice mail as about 40 seconds worth and I told him to call me when he had a problem…
Hung up and I see the posting from Heather in the above thread. Wow, I thought, I better apologize to her.
So I call the number again, and I get Heather. Right off I apologize for calling the number I was given by Ryan as his number. She very clearly indicates she does not get into this business affairs and he does not use that phone for those affairs. She made some comment that triggered me to just ask, “aren’t you guys married?” she then indicated engaged… I apologized again for the intrusion and about that time it was “click”….. So, as you can imagine I waited on the next email …. It is this one…
.
quote
12/4 ….
First off I don't appreciate the rude phone calls. If you have something to say TO ME you can say it to me in an email unless you have something to hide (or something you are going to BS about on the phone and then convienently forget you said it later). Second of all, it is NONE OF YOUR FUC?KING BUSINESS WHAT MY RELATIONSHIP IS WITH MY WOMAN. And you want to lecture me about what is RUDE, thats just upsurd. (EDITED cruse word so it would not get censored by LOYDE )
I don't know the reason WHY you tried contacting my customer but it doesn't matter. I put his car together and I have the answers. If you have a question you can ask me. I find it fishy that you both tried to contact him AND posted in my PFF thread on thanksgiving day, the same day you KNEW I was going to be out of town. Well my email account is my lifeline to my customers and I always carry my laptop with me wherever I go so they can contact me. I don't normally give out my phone numbers because I don't have time to BS on the phone answering basic repair questions when I have work to do in the shop or when I am attending family functions. If you need to talk to me you can do it here. I check my email at least once daily. If you are not capable of expressing yourself via email I suggest you learn how.
I have been very patient and professional towards you publically. However if you persist with the BS I will not hesitate to plaster all of the emails you have sent to me during this PCM programming debacle all over the message boards and mailing lists to prove to everyone you CANNOT provide the flawless service you claim. Yes, everyone will know that if I would have listened to your advice in your emails, I would have been pulling a transmission out of Pete's car to fix a problem that was a PCM programming issue. Everyone will also know that you have a problem with disabling the correct trouble codes in an OBDII PCM for a Fiero swap.
My suggestion to you is to drop this BS right now. I have publically restrained myself thus far and have extended you professional courteousy . But if you persist with your rude phone calls and blame-something or someone else email and internet game, I will have no choice but to make the truth clear to EVERYONE about your business practices and what REALLY HAPPENED. Enough is enough. Drop it.
This was my response to Ryan…
12/4….
quote
LOYDE response……
You are the not the person in the Fiero community I thought you were. You are not here to actually help people, but to thieve on the all mighty dollar. I had great faith in your ability for hybrid installs to recommend you to people on the east coast, but I can assure you, I will never again. You are a confused person to hide behind a keyboard to cruse and feel like a big man.. I at least face my problems best I can face to face, or when distance is a issue, by phone so no misunderstanding of context is taken.
Loyde
So, this brings us to this point of who is right, who is wrong. He said, she said, and even some he said again….
Its not my place to really understand all the things that happen in life. I just try to live one day at a time.
The resolution to this for me was get Pete a working PCM… After the conversation with Ryan that lasted 78 minutes I thought we could work together and he was OBDI dedicated and I was OBDII dedicated. Ryan really hates OBDII. I could care less which computer someone uses. Fact is, if you want to run the 4T65eHD transmission you have to have OBDII to shift it.
Now as to the HP Tuners software.. The flaws I found just occurred on October 15th time frame… It is in the transmission section and it may even be do to the release of 1.5. I have been in conversation with HP Tuners about this. In the November time frame I had a customer car here that I was having problems with the 3.69 gear change. Turns out not even DHP gets the 3.69 right in the software very often so ZZP had me change the reluctor on the diff. Then I wanted to finally use the DHP programmer I have also. Charles provided me with an OSID that was compatible with the HPTuners software and the PowrTuner software. This really helped to resolve the transmission issues between the customer car I had here, and the car Ryan was working on. HP Tuners is not interested in the V6 community 100% because the real money is in the V8 community with the LS1, LS2, LS4, LS6, and upcoming LS7.
OK, in closing.. I want to say avoid ME Loyde Rascoe Fastfieros.com or whatever you want to call me if you DO NOT WANT
Personal one on one customer service at no fee via phone 24x7 but please 10am – 10pm central time out of respect…. Personal “whatever it takes approach” to solving your PCM and hybrid installs problems Someone that is here for the Fiero community 100% and has been for 8 years now.
I have no further plans to post on this topic regardless of what Ryan comes back with. I have included the emails to the best I can and only made changes to protect heather and pete.
Material like this makes me almost laugh at the maturity you? 30-40 yr old business men? What is this forum to you Darth? An escape? All you have done is tried to publicly tarnish Loyde's rep. Tell me, who else reprograms OBDIIs? People on the Grand Prix sites? There are numerous changes the must be made and accounted for when trying to use 2000 equip and electronics in a 20 yr old car. Loyde is, as far as I'm aware of, the ONLY one who has reprogrammed the OBDII to work in the fiero... does that mean nothing? If you were pioneering the reprogramming of PCMs, do you think you could get it 100% right for every car? I could almost guarantee you could not...there are factors changing every swap, without actually having the car, proper tuning is a hit or miss, all you can do is try something out.
Who am I to talk? I am one of Loyde's past customers, he drove several hundred miles to pick up my car, and trailored it back to me when completed. There were a couple of bumps along the way, but nothing talking and explaining things out didn’t resolve. He had my car for 2 months, installed and properly tuned my car. Upon arrival of my car back there were some idle issues with the climate and elevation changes, rather then make it a public issue, I called Loyde up and in 2 days I had a new PCM, plugged it in and it has worked great since.
I have nothing but praise for the work Loyde did on my car and his ability to promptly deal with issues. However, you made this a public issue when it was not needed. Personal or business... needs to be taken care of in private. Personally I don’t care what was said, it should have been taken care of in a more professional and private manner.
I have nothing against you Darth, you are a respected member of this forum, but coming on here to post matters which do not concern this forum is asking for trouble. I don't agree with the "people need to be aware"...No, when the situation is completely taken care of, that would be the time to post.
Best of luck to you both....I hope you can work out something IN PRIVATE.
I think he is upset because Loyde used his car as a test car for his programming without telling him. And as a result, Darth paid for his schooling so to speak. And for 10 grand I would hope he would send you a new PCM. Im not ripping on Loyd. Ive spoken to him on the phone, and he seemed like a nice fellow. Just dont like seeing a friend of mine getting a lecture from people when he doesnt deserve it.
And for the mustangbeware fellow, you may be refering to my car when you talked about flywheel problems, that wasnt anything to do with Ryan. Anything that was wrong with my car was because of another vender. I dont believe he does this soley for money, he charged me $2500 to do an LT1 swap with a 4t60e tranny. Show me ANYONE who would have done that for twice that. I hope to use him again in the future for some upgrades if he is willing.
If you're on the cutting edge, you'll bleed a lot.
That one line says it all. I think both of you should lick your wounds and put what is past behind you and resolve it by working it out together. I've made enemies before and wished I hadn't. You both don't need this and neither does the forum.
Just another waste of space here on PFF, if its not one flame its another. Why can ppl not just grow up and handle there business on thier own instead of putting it on all over the net. This Forum is going downhill fast and has been for the last several months.
Thie reason this forum is here in the first place is to make life easier for Fiero owners. This story is very valuable and belongs here. Your blathering has been noted. Now shut up.
So, I'm just curious. What makes a "personal question" about your relationship with your fiance? Was it a "So, how long have you been dating?" type of question, or "Does the carpet match the drapes?" type of question? I breathlessly await the reply! (where's my popcorn?)
I am sorry to see that this issue has gone this way. I just hope that all the opportunities to patch things up are not gone. The LAST thing that this community needs is two leading builders to try and destroy each other. Please don't let this turn into unresolveable issue. Please, please, pleeeaaase?
Edit:
Mmm... egg nog...
Wait... 1 part 7-up and 3 parts nog? Where does the rum go?
I've never actually had it with rum.. heh
[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 12-05-2004).]
If you're on the cutting edge, you'll bleed a lot. I'm sorry you made this public because it detracts from our forum. Both of you have thrown mud and it sticks. People will remember. The facts will get lost but the name calling will remain. I'm guessing both were frustrated, tired of trying to solve the problem, and vented. I'm a ninth grade science teacher. I get frustrated a lot. Both of you need to work on business skills, which means you don't get so emotional. I've made enemies of students by one badly chosen statement. They're looking for revenge the rest of the school term. I pay big time. They relay their resentment to younger students. I'm not the best school teacher. This same thing may happen with your potential customers. Instead of sharing a larger customer base, you both may have cut down on the number of people willing to pay for what seems like a troublesome swap.
Darth, I believe you made a mistake with this thread. Next time you might want to wait three days and carefully think of the consquences.
I wish both of you success in the future as Fiero vendors.
Loyde... Darth... don't let a woman and her cell phone come between you. What you guys have is the natural ability to molest peoples computers. Without your fondling fingers we'd all be lost. You guys are like Michael Jackson at Never Land Ranch, without you we'd be lost little boys.
I guess thats a sign that I should go work on it. Later 
Some of his work.
