That's not really a fair statement. There are plenty of things that it's passed over which would be considered important.
"fair"? Todd, I was being 95% facetious. Relax.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
The balloon entered US air space after passing through/over Canada. It appears that all it's collected information on so far are endless forests, mountains and farmland.
There's still a lot of work to be done. Creating the new "Victory Over Chinese Balloon" medals and ribbons. Painting a "balloon" decal on the fuselage of all those planes that were involved in the mission. Planning and scheduling the White House award ceremony for the pilots.
I wonder if the pilots and ground crews got combat pay.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-04-2023).]
WG...every once in a while you hit an absolute homerun....I am just glad I wasn't eating because then I would have to clean the computer screen (Again)
The chinese "Government" is condemning the shoot-down- threatening repercussions....How about some repercussions for sending a spy-balloon over the US....?
This super-sized high altitude balloon may have been regarded by the Pentagon as an interesting test of F-22 Raptor capabilities and functionalities, and a test case that would be costly, if not impossible for the U.S. to duplicate.
i'm not suggesting that it was in any way difficult for an F-22 pilot to approach the ballon and queue up an AIM-9 air-to-air missile to strike it.
But that was a lot of ballon. I wonder if there was curiosity on the Pentagon's part about how such a large balloon would be processed by the F-22 and AIM-9 optical, radar and IR target acquisition and tracking systems. Maybe the Pentagon wanted to see how these sensors performed in discriminating the balloon payload from the ballon itself.
According to WaPo columnist David Ignatius, the Pentagon did not want the missile to penetrate the ballon and pass all the way through it, because they feared that would have resulted in the balloon drifting farther offshore and causing debris from the ballon payload to fall into international waters.
The two fighter jets that shot down the Chinese balloon on Saturday afternoon not far from Myrtle Beach has some ties to Arizona history, believe it or not!
The two had the call sign “Frank01″ and “Frank02,” intended to honor Phoenix-born 2nd Lieutenant Frank Luke, a World War I pilot who shot down multiple German spy balloons and airplanes during the war. Call signs are used on military aircraft for both communication identity reasons and security.
Luke soon became known as the “Arizona Balloon Buster,” and the Air Force History and Museums site refers to him as “the most spectacular air fighter of World War I.” He trained in the Signal Corps’ Aviation Section in January 1918, trained further in Issoudun, France, and shot his first plane down on Aug. 16, 1918. During his career, Lt. Luke earned 2 Distinguished Service crosses.
1. sigh.... Anti aircraft missiles like the aim9x don't always 'strike' the target, nor are they supposed to. Tailpipe seekers are pretty much a thing of the past. They explode in close proximity to the target which actually causes more damage than a penetration does. The pilot guides the missile part of the way to the target via his helmet then the missile's guidance system locks on and the pilot can do other 'stuff'.... The current AIM9 warhead sends out 200 titanium metal objects...not a friendly feeling.. 2. The missile most likely targeted the antenna/solar panels (hardware) hanging beneath and not the balloon itself. The missile payload is fragmentation. The following link explains how the AIM9 WDU-17/B warhead works.
Recently, the topic of Canada being able to hold up their NATO commitment was discussed.
This balloon made it way all the way across Canada also and up to this point, I haven't heard a word. Either Canada didn't know it was there (hard to believe), didn't consider it a threat to themselves or, figured the US would handle it. All three would seem to be concerning to NATO allies.
Actually, it just cut across a corner of British Columbia. Most of which is already privately owned by China. We just didnt give a crap about them spying on their own
Keep in mind this balloon entered North American airspace over Alaska. Just saying...
Yep, I'm fully aware of that but, it does appear Canada didn't have a clue of its existence or if known, never said a word about it. Oh, we're apparently just as guilty, we apparently didn't think enough to even warn your folks. Although the track you've presented is significantly different that what was or is being shown here.
It's always good to know who has your six (Or in this case 12).
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-06-2023).]
I presented the route as posted Here at Wikipedia. Do you have a more accurate track you can share?
Patrick, Unannounced versus undetected or maybe unknown............... Does Canada have any radar or detection capability? I ask because I don't know. Or does Cananda depend on the US to that? Again, I don't know.
Reference the track, I don't know that anyone has a more accurate track, the ones I have been seeing show the track to be further south, south of the Aleutian Islands but, I honestly don't know what is most accurate.
Rams, We have F/A-18's, Northern bases, NORAD, and some pretty damn good tech stuff. A polar bear cant fart without us knowing about it.
Now actually having the political will, thats a different story. If that thing didnt get taken down over the Canadian Rockies it's because somebody didnt want it down.
But we are saved, Wagner group is going to sort things out for us !!
...Vancouver Island on the west coast to Newfoundland on the east coast.
ya have to be careful making a blanket statement for that much territory and it's airspace in regards to altitude.
Few if any radars can search and detect the entire air space at all altitudes fromsea level to the ionosphere and horizon to horizon. USAF (Space Force now) for instance has PAVEPAWS in Alaska that specifically searches Westward and Northwestward using it's AN/FPS 117 long range phased array but not at all altitudes. It can scan as much as 240° north to south but only 3° to 10° elevation, watching for ICBM launches as the missiles rise from ground up toward apogee at around 1200 miles above the earth's surface. The short gap filler in Alaska and across Canada is the FPS-124, scans 360° but it is short range (1-70 miles in distance) and up to only 15,000 ft.
According to almost all reports, as few as 4 and as many as 8 (depndingwhich former NORAD general is talking) of these Chinese balloons crossed the US/North America air space in time fram 2016-2020 and went undetected and unreported to the Pentagon or by the US military until after they had exited North American air space and out into the Atlantic. At least one crossed over Texas. None were shot down.
If you look close, you will find that almost all of the Norad stuff is operated and actually owned by USAF/USSC by contract between Canada and the US, with only the sites being owned by Canada. But, this is normal, thru out the world. It's cheaper to lease and pay someone else to do these sorts of things than each individual nation to have their own. This arrangement also makes it much much easier for the entire network to handshake and share information, instead of a hodge podge of different types and spec facilities.
It's not that Canada can't afford their own or that they are technologically incapable of going it alone, it's just that this is the deal that was hammered out decades ago between these 2 (and other) nations and their govts. It works out well for both nations and USA wouldbe hard pressed tofind replacement sites if Canada were to pull a Charles DeGaulle and throw us out.
...Vancouver Island on the west coast to Newfoundland on the east coast.
Coverage is only a small bit of the actual airspace involved. FPS124 won't reach the altitude the balloon was reported to be flying at for most of it's jouney across North America. Neither will FPS 117 at close ranges due to being 10° above line of sight horizon.
Don, start Here. I was disputing Ron's claim that the balloon had traveled ... "all the way across Canada".
Ron then stated Here that "All the way across Canada would be from north to south..."
That would be like saying that flying from Seattle, Washington to Tucson, Arizona would be travelling "all the way across" America. It just wouldn't be correct.
The comment of mine that you're focusing on was simply my description of what travelling "all the way across Canada" would actually entail. It had nothing whatsoever to do with radar coverage... or blankets.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-07-2023).]
You were directly addressing Ron's specific question regarding radar or detection capability. You answered that question with "seriously' followed by a map showing the Canada wide length of the installation locations.
Don, I don't know why you're insisting that you know more about my discussion with Ron than I do. I've stated what I was addressing.
I'm sure Biden appreciates your patronage, but I'm not sure of the desire to support his decision in this case. If we knew about it on January 28th, I'd think it would have been wise to shoot it down the second it entered our air space in Alaska. The debris wouldn't have affected anyone.
Don, I don't know why you're insisting that you know more about my discussion with Ron than I do. I've stated what I was addressing.
It's all right there for all to see and I can both read AND comprehend WHAT I read. Now, if you MEANT something else, you should have TYPED something else.
Yep, seriously. Is that a map of military or civilian aviation coverage? Who paid for it?
Doesn't really matter, both countries failed as it applies to this "Spy in the Sky" balloon but, who's paying the bill? We (the US) have a lot of friends, most of them because we're paying some or most of their bills. Buying our friends is going to eventually bankrupt us. I don't believe we can afford any more friends who don't or won't pay their own way.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 02-07-2023).]
Really? What balloon might you be referring to?
What was my "blanket statement"?
