Does work But only when used right and right media for the job....
Then add Many "Masks" for CCP virus panic made nobody plus have problems in How they're Fit and How they're Used. Just watch any local news "shows" or go to any store and see masks Falling off nose to entire face. Many standard "dust masks" and others have metal nose piece and too stupid to bent them right. Masks w/o them are often useless too for same reason. Air simple bypass the media at huge leases at nose.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Does work But only when used right and right media for the job....
Then add Many "Masks" for CCP virus panic made nobody plus have problems in How they're Fit and How they're Used. Just watch any local news "shows" or go to any store and see masks Falling off nose to entire face. Many standard "dust masks" and others have metal nose piece and too stupid to bent them right. Masks w/o them are often useless too for same reason. Air simple bypass the media at huge leases at nose.
Here you go. theogre saying they do work, then turns around and explains why they don't.
[This message has been edited by Lambo nut (edited 03-27-2021).]
Pretty sure he's saying that if the correct mask is worn properly, they work but, that's just me reading it.
Rams
Define "correct mask".
Other than masks carrying the "N95" designation, there are NO industry, FDA, CDC or NIOSH regulations or controls on masks.
21 CFR 878.4040 specifically exempts surgical masks that are not claimed to be "N95" compliant.
Since this panic-demic began there are hundreds, if not thousands, of new manufacturers producing and marketing masks of all shapes, types and materials that are not tested, inspected or certified in any way, because it isn't required, so I'll ask again...
.....define "correct mask"
Just blurting out the slogan; "Masks work" does not make it so.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-27-2021).]
Originally posted by randye: Other than masks carrying the "N95" designation, there are NO industry, FDA, CDC or NIOSH regulations or controls on masks.
Since this panic-demic began there are hundreds, if not thousands, of new manufacturers producing and marketing masks of all shapes, types and materials that are not tested, inspected or certified in any way, because it isn't required, so I'll ask again... .....define "correct mask"
Just blurting out the slogan; "Masks work" does not make it so.
Not true. In my oil field years I was exposed to H2S, (hydrogen sulfide) gas and had to wear an OSHA approved masked, it had to be regularly maintained, all users had to be trained in their fitment, and a fitness test had to be conducted to be sure the user and the mask have a positive seal.
You are right though. The slogan does not make it so.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 03-27-2021).]
Not true. In my oil field years I was exposed to H2S, (hydrogen sulfide) gas and had to wear an OSHA approved masked, it had to be regularly maintained, all users had to be trained in their fitment, and a fitness test had to be conducted to be sure the user and the mask have a positive seal.
You are right though. The slogan does not make it so.
NOT talking about PPE like gas masks.
Additionally, Title 21 CFR, (Code of Federal Regulations), that I specifically mentioned deals with FDA regulated and controlled medical devices, including the category of surgical apparel of which surgical masks are a part thereof.
OSHA has nothing to do with regulating medical devices.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-27-2021).]
Originally posted by randye: NOT talking about PPE like gas masks.
Additionally, Title 21 CFR, (Code of Federal Regulations), that I specifically mentioned deals with FDA regulated and controlled medical devices, including the category of surgical apparel of which surgical masks are a part thereof.
OSHA has nothing to do with regulating medical devices.
Ok, I will forget that masks of any kind (except costume masks) are PPE.
Your history I think is heavily medical. I can see where you would be familiar with Title 21 of the CFR. I am familiar with Title 30, CFR, § 250.490, Hydrogen sulfide. I know when mixing chemicals I had to wear a particulate mask. When painting I had to wear a respirator. H2S possible exposure requires a SCBA mask, Self Contained Breathing Apparatus. Not A SCUBA mask (underwater).
I also know that an employer has to provide all PPE required for work one might be exposed to in a hazardous work environment. I know they had to be OSHA approved, ie regulated.
Originally posted by blackrams: Pretty sure he's saying that if the correct mask is worn properly, they work but, that's just me reading it.
Correct.
quote
Originally posted by randye: OSHA has nothing to do with regulating medical devices.
quote
Originally posted by randye: Other than masks carrying the "N95" designation, there are NO industry, FDA, CDC or NIOSH regulations or controls on masks.
Wrong.
OSHA and Many Industries has Rules for Masks of all types for Decades on when used, how to fit, etc. When a Business requires Masks, have to Spend Money to Fit and Test people individually. If a Business fails to meet OSHA rules expect Big Fines and/or Lawsuits. This has been true way before the virus panic...
And While OSHA doesn't cover most "Medical Devices," many hospitals and other places are often require to meet OHSA mask fitting rules too as cliffw said...
quote
I also know that an employer has to provide all PPE required for work one might be exposed to in a hazardous work environment. I know they had to be OSHA approved, ie regulated.
If a Nurse etc uses any PPE, most have had Training Testing etc required by OHSA before allow to use whatever type. "Simple" Surgical Masks are often Not Universal fit and even when same mask is used by many, how each person use it is often different to make sure will fit that person correctly.
KN95 is not = to N95. N95 P100 and some others are approved by the US National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH). (FFP2 is equiv to N95 in other countries.) Many Imported N95 and other masks got and are still getting Stopping by US Customs because are Fakes. KN95 is a "China Standard" but Worse, KNxx marks are often Fakes even in China.
Originally posted by randye: Define "correct mask".
For DIY etc Outside of a Job requiring them, Correct Mask often just means mask meets situation at hand... Examples: ● Basic Dust Mask may protect when you're sweep the floor or sanding wood, but won't protect when using most Paints, Removing Paint often containing Lead, etc. because won't stop smaller particle sizes and fumes. ● N95 and P100 and even "Gas masks" don't work in enclose spaces because little to no air to breath. Even 0 VOC "paints" can still drive out air to breath when painting in a bathroom. If Staining, varnishing or use many Glues in same bathroom, expect problems unless you use fans etc to move a lot of clean air. ● N95 and others does filter out most Virus because their attach to bigger aerosols Regardless of what WHO CDC and Fauci said in the recent past.
A Big problem is "Any Mask protects" is just Spin from CDC and others AFTER saying you don't need masks or even Dangerous to use them. Worse, many "masks" sold thru normal retail to Flea Markets are nothing more then "Halloween masks" because want easy money. IOW They do very little or nothing, even less then cheapest Dust Masks sold everywhere for many years.
Again, Just watch any local news "shows" or go to any store and see masks Falling off their nose to entire face. No mask will protect the user or anyone else when falling or pulling off their face. When that doesn't, many masks have huge gaps because doesn't fit the user. Even most Govrmnt people like many Mayors and Police Chiefs have same issue all last year and still do.
Plus used masks are also becoming thrash problem and trying to avoid them on the floor ground and everywhere is harder and harder to do in many places.
Other than masks carrying the "N95" designation, there are NO industry, FDA, CDC or NIOSH regulations or controls on masks.
21 CFR 878.4040 specifically exempts surgical masks that are not claimed to be "N95" compliant.
Since this panic-demic began there are hundreds, if not thousands, of new manufacturers producing and marketing masks of all shapes, types and materials that are not tested, inspected or certified in any way, because it isn't required, so I'll ask again...
.....define "correct mask"
Just blurting out the slogan; "Masks work" does not make it so.
Did I suggest what or which was the "Correct Mask" anywhere in my post? It's not even my opinion I was talking about. And, as was posted shortly after my post, the poster agreed that I had interpreted his post correctly.
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by blackrams: Pretty sure he's saying that if the correct mask is worn properly, they work but, that's just me reading it.
Correct.
[/QUOTE]
So, back that bus up.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 03-28-2021).]
Did I suggest what or which was the "Correct Mask" anywhere in my post?
Rams
No you did not and it wasn't my intent to be argumentative.
I was simply trying to point out that the vast majority of people have NO CLUE what the "correct mask" is or if such a thing even exists.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Your history I think is heavily medical.
Along with a variety of other things, Yes, that is correct.
Prior to selling my business and retiring over a year ago, I was a biomedical engineer for 25 years. I also was the Director of research & development and engineering for a large medical device company. I have 11 US patents for medical devices. Over 20 of those 25 years of my career were also spent working directly with the FDA to obtain clearance for new medical devices, (510K). That work includes my having conducted thousands upon thousands of hours of sterility and microbial testing and having developed and written 2 surgical procedures for orthopedics. My certification as a ORT, (Operating Room Tech) is still valid and I've spent more hours than I can possibly recall assisting surgeons in the OR, which required extensive training and knowledge in antiseptic techniques, including surgical gowns, gloves and masks.
SO, I like to believe that I just might know something about surgical masks and their use and efficacy.
I'm usually happy to share my knowledge but I should have known better than to even step into the inanity of this thread so you guys go ahead and keep talking about OSHA and industrial regulations and conflating that with medical / surgical masks because frankly I'm done attempting to have a conversation with people that don't know what they're talking about but keep trying to tell me that I'm wrong. Accordingly, I'm finished with this discussion.
Have fun.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-29-2021).]
Originally posted by blackrams: Did I suggest what or which was the "Correct Mask" anywhere in my post?
quote
Originally posted by randye: No you did not and it wasn't my intent to be argumentative.
I was simply trying to point out that the vast majority of people have NO CLUE what the "correct mask" is or if such a thing even exists.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw: Your history I think is heavily medical.
quote
Originally posted by randye: Along with a variety of other things, Yes, that is correct.
Prior to selling my business and retiring over a year ago, I was a biomedical engineer for 25 years. I also was the Director of research & development and engineering for a large medical device company. I have 11 US patents for medical devices. Over 20 of those 25 years of my career were also spent working directly with the FDA to obtain clearance for new medical devices, (510K). That work includes my having conducted thousands upon thousands of hours of sterility and microbial testing and having developed and written 2 surgical procedures for orthopedics. My certification as a ORT, (Operating Room Tech) is still valid and I've spent more hours than I can possibly recall assisting surgeons in the OR, which required extensive training and knowledge in antiseptic techniques, including surgical gowns, gloves and masks.Click to show
SO, I like to believe that I just might know something about surgical masks and their use and efficacy.
I'm usually happy to share my knowledge but I should have known better than to even step into the inanity of this thread so you guys go ahead and keep talking about OSHA and industrial regulations and conflating that with medical / surgical masks because frankly I'm done attempting to have a conversation with people that don't know what they're talking about but keep trying to tell me that I'm wrong. Accordingly, I'm finished with this discussion.
Have fun.
Inanity ?I feel insulted. I do not have a lack of sense, significance, or ideas, nor do I think any participant in this thread does. Far from it. We are stronger together and we can learn from any who might be inane. Including you. This thread was not and never was about surgical masks !
Actually, it was not even about Personal Protection Equipment. The whole panic-demic scam was heavily weighted about protecting other people. Though I didn't see that effort as my problem. My concern, yes. My problem, NO ! If I protect myself, I protect others. The Gooberment guidance was woefully lacking, thus this discussion.
Speaking of Gooberment guidance, did they ever suggest, when possible or needed, to stand upwind from populace ? Germs are air born and subject to wind flow.
Did Gooberment guidance ever prescribe the "correct mask" ?Click to show
quote
Originally posted by randye: Accordingly, I'm finished with this discussion.
