Originally posted by Rickady88GT: So now I have a $3,000 sticker on the inside of my door jamb that says my Fiero is no longer a Fiero. It is now a 2006 Monte Carlo SS with a 5.3 LS4 V8 and is smog compliant in Ca.
How did the CAT cost you? Is the Fiero exempt for life? Did you have to install the Evap from the 5.3?
The cat is a stock LS4 cat. You could buy one new for about $300? I modified it to fit in the Fiero engine bay and was noted as such by the ref. So it is legal to do some mods to the exhaust system. It was a standard smog certification, so it needs a check every two years. Yes the entire Monte emissions system is in the Fiero.
wow, I love the interior! what plans do you have for the console? are you going to keep it carpeted or make a custom piece?
I have a fiberglass piece in flat black, but not done yet. I have not worked on the car in a while. Just got the exhaust system for the smog ref and driving it. I did blow out two subs so far. I may just bump up the center sub to an 8"?
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I have a fiberglass piece in flat black, but not done yet. I have not worked on the car in a while. Just got the exhaust system for the smog ref and driving it. I did blow out two subs so far. I may just bump up the center sub to an 8"?
I have JL Adio 6.5 subs. I used to have two of them in the car with the stock dash. But this dash has a glove box that takes the place of one of the subs, now I only have one between the seats. I think it gets 250w.
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I have JL Adio 6.5 subs. I used to have two of them in the car with the stock dash. But this dash has a glove box that takes the place of one of the subs, now I only have one between the seats. I think it gets 250w.
Ow. Yeah, 250 watts to a JL 6w0 will kill it pretty fast. They peak at about half that. You want to provide about 80-100 watts constant to it. I have a 6w0 in my car, powered by the factory performance sound amp right now, in the stock sub location, and it hits pretty good. I also have a better amp waiting to get installed to power it, which is about 100 watts RMS. I had this amp connected to a 6w0 in the extended cab S-10 I used to have, and it filled the cabin really well for its size.
Ow. Yeah, 250 watts to a JL 6w0 will kill it pretty fast. They peak at about half that. You want to provide about 80-100 watts constant to it. I have a 6w0 in my car, powered by the factory performance sound amp right now, in the stock sub location, and it hits pretty good. I also have a better amp waiting to get installed to power it, which is about 100 watts RMS. I had this amp connected to a 6w0 in the extended cab S-10 I used to have, and it filled the cabin really well for its size.
I have to say they did sound good. I got them because of the small size, but like them because of the great sound they put out. They lasted about 5 years. The first one blew out last year so I put the other one in its ace and now it is on its way out.
I put in one 8 sub and it sounds ok, but I dont think it sounds as good as the two 6.5 I had. I can put the 6.5 back in (a new one because I blew out the two I had) but installing the two will be a challenge.
More jobs and better economy from repairing old cars than from new crap. Cali is no place for car enthusiasts. If you're there for huge pay, buy a new ZR1 with your huge pay. Otherwise, there are 49 better states to be a car enthusiast in. Reno is a nice close place to live, easy commute, no emissions BS.
I agree.
The emissions out here voilates my rights I feel. They shouldn't have to be inspecting any of my cars but California has some really F-ed up laws. I'm not sure if this is my last stop but I tell ya its better than Colorado. I get to enjoy my RWD year round vs driving in snow 10 months out of the year.
I'm not sure if this is my last stop but I tell ya its better than Colorado. I get to enjoy my RWD year round vs driving in snow 10 months out of the year.
Joe
[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 03-13-2013).]
Wow, this is one of the most amazing builds I've seen! That dash just transforms the entire car! I'll be building an LSx Fiero at some point myself, and keep debating the manual-vs-auto thing... Do you find yourself using the paddle shifters much? Does it ever shift when you'd rather it didn't? I have joint issues which include my ankles and I'm not sure if a manual - particularly a heavy one - would work for me.
+ For you for an awesome build thread!
------------------ ~Michael '85 GT 4sp white - SOLD | | '85 2M6 Auto red - SOLD | | '84 2M4 bare chassis - SOLD Crap, I'm out of Fieros! Time to buy another!! - "Your mileage may vary." WTB: Formula 5sp
Wow, this is one of the most amazing builds I've seen! That dash just transforms the entire car! I'll be building an LSx Fiero at some point myself, and keep debating the manual-vs-auto thing... Do you find yourself using the paddle shifters much? Does it ever shift when you'd rather it didn't? I have joint issues which include my ankles and I'm not sure if a manual - particularly a heavy one - would work for me.
+ For you for an awesome build thread!
Thanks, from the inside this does not even look like a Fiero anymore. I had plans to do the motor mounts in such a way that I could install a 6 speed manual. That did not pan out because I did not have enough parts to do the drive shafts for the manual.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-13-2013).]
Do you find yourself using the paddle shifters much? Does it ever shift when you'd rather it didn't? I have joint issues which include my ankles and I'm not sure if a manual - particularly a heavy one - would work for me.
+ For you for an awesome build thread!
I melted a resistor like this one during the steering wheel conversion. I never got around to replacing it. So the shifters do not work yet.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-16-2013).]
I started on my LS1 intake swap today. I am not sure how long it will take, but I have had this manifold for two years. I started with a .25 thick aluminum plate and cut it down so that it will cover the LS1 intake opening and the stock LS4 TB. I chose to stay with the LS4 TB because I already have one, and it works But the main reason is that I do not want to deal with extra PCM reprogramming. I hope to do as little as possible for this swap. I will also keep the stock MAF and fuel injectors. So to sum up my plans for the manifold swap,....basically I am only changing the manifold and installing all of the LS4 components to the LS1 intake. If it does not work out, I will try to change the parts that are incompatible to the swap. I really don't like the DOD so a permanent deactivation of it is in order. But I am not sure yet how to do it properly, that is I still need to run the car without engine codes. I have had DOD functional from the start, and it has not grown on me. It vibrates on the freeway because I have hard mounts, and it chugs in town because the DOD kicks in at about or under 30mph just after it shifts into 4th gear. The RPM is very low and with DOD activated I can feel the car chug along. And then the sound of a V8 running on only four cylinders with an aggressive exhaust system....not music to my ears. So I drive in town down shifted into 3rd so DOD does not turn on. I shift into 4th only on the freeway or at speeds over 55mph.
This is where I wish I had a CNC mill but I don't...yet. I had to cut out the adaptor plate with hand tools.
Sorry, PIP is not working for me. It takes a long time to "upload" then gives my a time out error.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-02-2013).]
After I cut out the adaptor plate, I drilled and tapped it. It has two sets of holes in it, one set for the LS4 TB and one set for the LS1 manifold and all 7 holes are tapped.
The first thing I needed to do was to get the adaptor mounted to the manifold but the adaptor bolts cant have any interference with the TB bolts. I thought about countersinking some tapered allen bolts but figured that screwing the bolts into the adaptor plate from behind the mount flange. So I used three TORX head bolts from the side plate of a 4T65E. I like them because they have a very wide and flat head. That gives them more surface aria on the plastic. I drilled and tapped the three LS1 mount holes to M8 x 1.25. This is larger than the stock M6 x 1.0 bolts. This is where it got a little tricky, I had to push out the threaded inserts that the original bolts threaded into. I then drilled out the center for the larger bolt to pass thru, and remove the threads. The bolts now screw in from the back side of the manifold neck and I hope I never need to service them in the car
I need to make a plug for this hole. The stock LS4 TB bolts need to be cut shorter because they bottom out on the manifold just on the other side of the adaptor plate, but the LS4 TB bolts on just like it does on the stock LS4 manifold.
I had to cut away a section of the LS1 mounting plate to make room for the Drive By Wire harness plug.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-03-2013).]
Looking good! If you wanted to do some tuning or have it done, you can turn off DoD in the lower gears as well as limit the MPH where it will engage. You can also click 1 cell and disable it entirely.
As for the hole in the end of the intake, several people just use a freeze plug to cap it off.
Looking good! If you wanted to do some tuning or have it done, you can turn off DoD in the lower gears as well as limit the MPH where it will engage. You can also click 1 cell and disable it entirely.
I will need to tune it, just for better efficiency if nothing else. But I expect this swap to cause some "out of perimeter" or unexpected readings to the PCM. I knew about the options for the DOD. I even considered having some changes made to it. In HP Tuner I could adjust the RPM that it would kick in at. This would help in town. And or I could adjust the MPH that it kicks in at, so It would only turn on at....lets say 57mph or higher. But what I would like to have is an On/Off switch so I can turn it off at will. The problem is that this was not possible at the time I was doing the swap and I don't think it is now either?
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
As for the hole in the end of the intake, several people just use a freeze plug to cap it off.
Thanks. What is the best Bonding Agent for the metal to plastic?
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Thanks. What is the best Bonding Agent for the metal to plastic?
If the plug is snug enough, you could just coat the flange with some RTV to help make it air tight. Others have used various types of epoxy. I used JB Weld for the sheet meal patch in the base of my intake.
Why am I doing the intake swap? The LS4 intake is a lot like the 2.8 Fiero intake, it is restrictive and does not let the engine run at its full potential.
Bottom view of "Fiero like" neck restriction. and ridiculous bump for sending unit.
I don't know if all LS4 intakes are like this one, but this one has a separated "weld" joint in the front runner. Look at the top of the "D" port, the dark line in that runner is a .25 gap between the top half and the bottom half of the runner castings. This could not be good for flow? This is a look down the LS4 TB mount. It is "D" shaped instead of "O" because of a bend in the intake neck for an Oil Pressure Sender. You can also see the internal intake runners that actually block the intake in addition to the "D" bend. And to make the intake opening even smaller, GM made a bump at the bottom of the "D" to allow for the connecter plug for the DOD valves that are just under the intake. As if that were not enough to slow the flow, GM thru in an air restriction bonus in the form of a totally random casting that blocks air flow.
A look at the LS1
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-07-2013).]
Another reason for the intake swap is the runners of the LS1 are larger and have a larger radius around the plenum. The LS4 runner radius is tighter and more restrictive. You can see the gaps between the runners on the LS4, but the larger LS1 runners are so large the gaps are gone.
From the bottom, you can see the huge "towers" that are structural support members in the LS4 compared to the smaller less restrictive "towers" of the LS1 and the casting voids in the smaller LS4 runners.
Some progres. But my PC melted down. So the new one is wont let me upload to Potobucket?
I got the OPS unit moved, ground down the bottom of the intake, painted some parts, machined down the heads of the Oil Valley Cover for a little more room, cut down the DOD plug that is in the Valley Cover and extended the wires for it, and made a 90* elbow for the brake booster barb to go over the top of the OPS unit. I will machine a new barb for the PCV to go were the brake booster used to go. Plug the hole in the back of the manifold with a freeze plug. Then machine extensions for the fuel injecters and rail mounts. Should be ready to go?
Sorry no updates, my CNC lathe quite working as I was making the fuel injector risers. It cost $100 for two batteries for the controller. I will start working on them again when I get the new batteries.
$70 for three bars of brass stock and $12 for twice as much stock of aluminum. I think I will make one riser out of brass to see how it looks? What do you think of brass fuel injector risers? They would be polished as bright as I can get them. If you dont know what the risers are, they are an extension between the fuel injectors and the fuel rail. I need to make room under the fuel rail for the larger manifold. So the brass would be visible just over the valve covers under the fuel rail.
Whoa! A hundred bucks for two batteries? I hope they're rechargeable and last for years....
Cool that guys like you have the tools and knowledge to fabricate this stuff yourselves.
Not rechargeable. Infact they are not that easy to change. I have changed one before, they have three prongs and are soldered in place. I only need one, the other has a shelf life of ten years and is a backup so I wont be down for a week or two waiting for a replacement. Without a good battery, the machine skips steps and wont initialize.
I could buy the adaptors in some "standard" size and made of aluminum, but then I could not say I did it This way I can say that I actually did the swap and made the parts myself. AND I can use whatever material I choose in whatever size and shape I choose.
Drove the car today, I cant say that it gained. A bunch of power. It does seem a little more peppy. But to get the most out of this swap swap I need to get it dyno tuned. The sound is more raspy or aggressive, but my biggest concern was a check engine light. I did not get an SES light, so I am happy with it.
The intake swap will help at WOT across the power band, but you have to tweak the tune to get the most out of it. The other 3 components that limit power with the LS4 platform are the MAF, exhaust manifolds (mainly the rear one) and the tiny DoD camshaft. Replace the intake and upgrade these other 3 and you will see some impressive gains. Since you are in Cali, you might want to stick to a stock camshaft from one of the more performance oriented LS(x) engines.
Thanks, for the tips. My problem is not just emisions but I have no idea where I can get a good dyno tune around here. I have no problem ditching the DOD cam and lifters. Then doing the rest of the upgrades. But they will be sometime down the road when I do the F40 swap.
Some progres. But my PC melted down. So the new one is wont let me upload to Potobucket?
I got the OPS unit moved, ground down the bottom of the intake, painted some parts, machined down the heads of the Oil Valley Cover for a little more room, cut down the DOD plug that is in the Valley Cover and extended the wires for it, and made a 90* elbow for the brake booster barb to go over the top of the OPS unit. I will machine a new barb for the PCV to go were the brake booster used to go. Plug the hole in the back of the manifold with a freeze plug. Then machine extensions for the fuel injecters and rail mounts. Should be ready to go?
Nice write up on the comparison between the Ls4 and Ls1 intakes I hadn't realized my Ls4 intake was so restrictive.
When you mention "machining down the heads of the oil valley cover"; is it the valley cover bolt heads? Also where did the OPS get relocated? Sorry about all the questions just very intriguing upgrade!
Nice write up on the comparison between the Ls4 and Ls1 intakes I hadn't realized my Ls4 intake was so restrictive.
When you mention "machining down the heads of the oil valley cover"; is it the valley cover bolt heads? Also where did the OPS get relocated? Sorry about all the questions just very intriguing upgrade!
I cut down the haeds of the valley cover bolts, but I did not need to. I just wanted to cut something in my lathe. I did not relocate the Oil Pressure Sending plug, I cut it down so it will fit under the manifold. I did this in three steps because I did not want to take off to much. I wound up cutting a substantial chunk off of it.
This is a shot of the adaptors and injectors. It demonstrates how they fit together with the keepers.
This is the adaptors and a new hose barb that I made for the PCV that replaced a smaller barb. I made 1 adaptor out of brass to how it would look. I like the aluminum, so I will stick with them.
This is the new barb in place.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-20-2013).]
The car runs great. I still need to get a dyno tune for it. But I think I want a trans shift kit first? Maybe even a chain and sprocket set with a limited slip diff.
The DOD work differently now. I don't realy like the DOD but it concerns me that it does not turn on when I have learned to expect it. The change tells me that the ECM does not see what it wants to see.
The air filter box still fits with the slightly relocated TB.
I actually think the brass looks pretty bad cool, has a steampunk feel, then you go talking about putting in gear/sprocket sets... lol
Sorry the DOD isn't working right for you (I still cant' see that acronym without thinking Dept. of Defense first). I hope you get some nice results from the tune and get the DOD bugs worked out!
I actually think the brass looks pretty bad cool, has a steampunk feel, then you go talking about putting in gear/sprocket sets... lol
Sorry the DOD isn't working right for you (I still cant' see that acronym without thinking Dept. of Defense first). I hope you get some nice results from the tune and get the DOD bugs worked out!
Thanks for the Dept Of Defense comment. Now it will probably stick in my head BUT not as bad as D.I.C. To me this means Driver Info Center and nothing else
I the morning on the way to work it works fine (as far as this type of DOD system goes) but on the way home in 100+ weather the system progressively fails to function. In about 20 min of driving it will no longer work at all. I am OK with it not working. BUT what concerns me is that something electronically prohibits it from functioning properly and makes me wonder what else could be affected by the unknown "malfunction" or borderline Check Engine light? The system worked flawlessly and rock solid predictable before the manifold swap. I used all of the stock sensors and hose connectors. So I suspect that the drivetrain needs a good dyno tune to recalibrate the system to the new manifold.
I suspect it just needs tuned for the better flowing intake. May also be heat/knock related. Here is a list of everything that can keep DoD from functioning (E67, but the E40 should be similar):
I suspect it just needs tuned for the better flowing intake. May also be heat/knock related. Here is a list of everything that can keep DoD from functioning (E67, but the E40 should be similar):
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but I don't...yet. I had to cut out the adaptor plate with hand tools.
