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Northstar 6 Speed by Zac88GT
Started on: 09-21-2007 03:13 AM
Replies: 193 (22049 views)
Last post by: alpine67 on 11-23-2015 03:25 PM
koolgtz
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Report this Post01-13-2008 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for koolgtzClick Here to Email koolgtzSend a Private Message to koolgtzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

"I got a little bit done after work tonight. I almost finished the wiring on the WB02. I adjusted the shifter cables and it shifts great now. I also soldered up my clutch hose adapter. I just got a union to connect to the fiero braded steel hose and then soldered a 90 elbow into that. Then i cut the end off of the G6 clutch line, removed the rubber hose bits from inside it and then soldered that to the elbow. Bled the clutch and it works perfect. The clutch pressure and release point feel identical to the getrag so i'm very happy."

Thats great work and thank you for showing us your progress.Would you have a picture of the completed hose assembly? I was wondering about how the clutch line would connect to the six speed.
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-14-2008 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by koolgtz:
Would you have a picture of the completed hose assembly? I was wondering about how the clutch line would connect to the six speed.


Here are a few pictures of the line connected to the trans with the adapter.

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koolgtz
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Report this Post01-14-2008 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for koolgtzClick Here to Email koolgtzSend a Private Message to koolgtzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the pictures. I now have a better understanding of your clutch line. Great job, nice and simple.
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post01-14-2008 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work!
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-18-2008 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got the engine fired up today after a little complication. I bought a set of larger fuel injectors off of ebay that had been ultrasonically cleaned and rebuilt, I don't think i'll ever do that again. I tried to start it but it just wouldn't go. It finally started when I held my foot to the floor but it definatly had a miss. I pulled a couple plug leads and found it wasn't running on #1,6 or 8. So i pulled the plugs and they were still shiny new and didn't smell like gas. I pulled the fuel rail and put power to those injectors and nothin, not a drop. Only 5/8 injectors that i bought work. So i just put the old injectors back in for now. Cranked it over and it purrs like a kitten, well, a very loud angry kitten. The new headers definatly seem a little louder than the old ones but they sound so bada$$, I love them.
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stickpony
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Report this Post01-19-2008 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stickponyClick Here to visit stickpony's HomePageSend a Private Message to stickponyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
this is a beautiful thread, I shed a tear
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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post01-19-2008 06:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:

I got the engine fired up today after a little complication. I bought a set of larger fuel injectors off of ebay that had been ultrasonically cleaned and rebuilt, I don't think i'll ever do that again. I tried to start it but it just wouldn't go. It finally started when I held my foot to the floor but it definatly had a miss. I pulled a couple plug leads and found it wasn't running on #1,6 or 8. So i pulled the plugs and they were still shiny new and didn't smell like gas. I pulled the fuel rail and put power to those injectors and nothin, not a drop. Only 5/8 injectors that i bought work. So i just put the old injectors back in for now. Cranked it over and it purrs like a kitten, well, a very loud angry kitten. The new headers definatly seem a little louder than the old ones but they sound so bada$$, I love them.


Don't be so quick to knock your injectors, if they have been sitting for a long time after having been used it is not unusual for them to stick closed, I had the same scenario on the higher flowing injectors I used in my swop but I checked the injectors before installing them with a 9 volt battery and noted there was no click indicating nozzle openning. A little WD40 or a little tap to loosen it up takes care of it. That can happen in a car that sees regular use also if you let it sit long enough. Sometimes the gas has contaminates in it that can cause this. Having to hold the accelerator pedal down to the floor is a good indication of to much fuel on start up which I also experienced. I know they were cleaned but they should also have been tested after the fact and any fluid left in them at the time could possibly lead to that situation, who knows how long they may have sat.

Nice work, I'm shedding a symbolic tear but only because I have to wait a few more months before I can get back to my project being so close to completion.
I

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 01-19-2008).]

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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-19-2008 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for all the compliments guys. Thanks Joseph for all your help and that tip. I'll try cleaning them and bench test them tomorrow to see if I can get them working. I figured i just got screwed by the guy because i've heard of this happening before, but i'll try some WD and rap on them a few times and see what happens.

[This message has been edited by Zac88GT (edited 01-19-2008).]

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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-19-2008 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks again joseph, i just got the other 3 injectors opening. Sprayed em with WD and let it sit for a while and then whailed on them with the end of a flat blade screw driver. I've gotta work today and go to a birthday after work so I wont have a chance to put them in until sunday. I'll post a sound clip or something after.
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crzyone
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Report this Post01-19-2008 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome build thread! Good work with the 6 speed.

Were the videos you posted on youtube with your old header setup? It sounded pretty badass. I think I will also put some headers on my N*. Make it sound less like a sbc and more like an exotic V-8.

Looking forward to how it sounds with the new headers.
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buds
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Report this Post01-19-2008 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for budsSend a Private Message to budsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:


Were the videos you posted on youtube with your old header setup?


A few here----> //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/069068.html
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-21-2008 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After I got the new bigger fuel injectors opening I put them back into the rail and decided to test them with fuel pressure just to make sure they all flowed relatively the same. The ones that were sticky now open but barely flow at all. i'll have to let them sit in cleaner for a long time or just buy new ones or something. So back in the old ones went again. Heres a little clip of the sound. It really doesn't do it justice for volume or fullness of sound though.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yHkJBZKSvNk
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post01-22-2008 02:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well that flywheel adapter mass certainly slow your throttle response down much ;-) Sounds awesome!

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 01-22-2008).]

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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-22-2008 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

Well that flywheel adapter mass certainly slow your throttle response down much ;-) Sounds awesome!



Haha, I was thinking the same thing. In that video i was rolling the throttle a lot more than the other one too. I think it's got about the same throttle response if not better than before.
The mods are:
-ported and polished cylinder heads
-backcut intake valves
-high compression steel shim head gaskets
-CHRF valve springs and retainers
-12.5 lb aluminum flywheel
-long tube headers 1.75" primarys ~36" length +- 4"with a spintech muffler
-cold air intake with cone filter

I'm hopeing for between 325-350whp now. I can't wait to get it out on the road and the dyno, but i'll probably have to wait until the spring.
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-23-2008 03:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bad news about my axles today. I tried a little test drive up my driveway today and the press fit sleeve axle method I was trying wouldn't hold. They did hold some decent torque but only about 25% in first gear. I still think this is a viable method if done right. I think it didn't work for me because the machined surfaces were not all that smooth and true. If you had a .005" press fit with at least .375 wall sleeve and very nicely machined surfaces I'm pretty confident that it would be able to transmit the torque. So today I took out the pressed axles and put in the solid one piece units. I shouldn't have any problems with these but i welded up the pressed ones just as backups or to use as mockups for future axles if i ever need them.
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Nashco
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Report this Post01-29-2008 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump to add this to the favorites. Did you get a chance to test it yet since changing the axles?

Bryce
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post01-30-2008 01:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've blasted up the driveway a few times with the solid one piece axles but haven't taken it out on the road. I tried fiddling around with different road speed constant and instrument pannel pulse divisor values within the ecm but it didn't look promising. Everytime i tried setting the RSC to a value over 10,000 ppmi the ecm wouldn't regester a speed whatsoever. So i ordered a dakota digital signal converter but i'm still waiting on it. I paid for USPS express to get it in 3-5 buisness days and it's been 7 buisness days so far with no sign of it (i'm really pissed off).
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post02-12-2008 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got the dakota digital converter today. If anybody else needs one of these things I would reccomend buying from dakota digital directly. DO NOT BUY FROM THE PHEONIX TUNING E-BAY STORE. They're a major pain in the ass to deal with. I paid $35 for express shipping so I could have it at my door in 3-5 buisness days. Well it only actually cost them $21 for the shipping so they overcharged by $14 and it took 15 BUISNESS days to get here. They displayed no innitiative what so ever in customer satasfaction. They said the delayed shipping wasn't their problem and if it didn't show up I was responsable for filing the insurance claim; they didn't even know that they're the ones that have to file the claim with USPS. I'm so pissed off with them, but enough with my rant. I got the signal converter in and working today. One thing to note is that the instructions say that output 4 is 4000ppm od and output 3 is 8000ppm ac. Output 4 didn't display anything on my computer or speedometer so i switched it to the ac signal on output 3 and then it worked fine. As output 3 is 8000ppm I was expecting the speedometer to read double what it should be but for some reason it actually reads correct. Kind of strange but i'm not complaining. I only have 2 hours of class this thursday so i'm thinking i might put a day permit on it .
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post02-14-2008 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well so far so good. The engine seems to run good and the trans is great. It burns a little oil on decceleration but i think thats mainly due to the pcv system and the rings not being fully seated yet. The 6 speed shifts great and the solid clutch with the heavier flywheel is much nicer to drive with than before. A couple of little quirks have come up but it's not a big deal. The dakota digital signal converter seems quite sensitive to electronic inference. It displays fine when the car is in motion but when the car is stopped the needle wiggles around a little bit, and i've already set it to the non-sensitive setting. The ecm flashes a lean exhaust gas code every now and then but the wideband afr says the engine is definatly not lean. It says the afr is typically around 11-12 when the light comes on, which is definatly not lean, and it only happens when cruising or idleing for a while. Took it to the truck scales to get a rough estimate of weight. With me in it, a half tank of fuel, and some other stuff it weighed in at 3050lbs, so without me and my junk the car weighs 2850 with a half tank. I also did a quick G-tech test just to make sure the engine is making more power than before. I used the same settings as i did before the rebuild. Before the rebuild i dynoed it at 300.5whp and the g-tech showed 220whp @ 5800 (some of the g-tech contstants need adjusting). Now the G-tech shows 240whp @ 6200 so i figure i'll probably pick up an additional 25whp when i go to the dyno.
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Erik
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Report this Post02-14-2008 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So how does it feel when accelerating? Do you feel conifdant that you could take on a 350z, C6 or some other newe sports car ??
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post02-14-2008 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessClick Here to Email ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:
The dakota digital signal converter seems quite sensitive to electronic inference.


I hated that thing! That was one of the (many) reasons I went to the 7730 ECM and ditched the Holley.

Do you have a frequency counter function on your volt meter? Or can you find some other way to verify the 6sp PPM?

There's got to be a way to get the ECM reading correctly without extra stuff. Does the output shaft just have a reluctor and pickup? Can it be removed easily? (Maybe some teeth can be ground off?)

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Zac88GT
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Report this Post02-14-2008 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:
There's got to be a way to get the ECM reading correctly without extra stuff. Does the output shaft just have a reluctor and pickup? Can it be removed easily? (Maybe some teeth can be ground off?)


The sensor actually picks up from the differential ring gear teeth, so i can't really grind any off, haha. It seems to be burning more oil now Not to sure what to do, i'm gonna do a quick compression check. If i unhook the pcv it doesn't seem to have much blow by though. I think the lean exhaust gas problem, for some reason the sensor isn't outputing the proper voltage, not sure if it's a busted sensor or something else wrong but that would explain the super rich mixture and why the computer thinks it's running lean.
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Will
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Report this Post02-14-2008 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

So how does it feel when accelerating? Do you feel conifdant that you could take on a 350z, C6 or some other newe sports car ??


350Z's are slow. A C6 would be a nice setup, but I think they run LOW 12's stock.

 
quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:


The sensor actually picks up from the differential ring gear teeth, so i can't really grind any off, haha. It seems to be burning more oil now Not to sure what to do, i'm gonna do a quick compression check. If i unhook the pcv it doesn't seem to have much blow by though. I think the lean exhaust gas problem, for some reason the sensor isn't outputing the proper voltage, not sure if it's a busted sensor or something else wrong but that would explain the super rich mixture and why the computer thinks it's running lean.


Ring gear teeth? Interesting. So if you swap in the 3.91 ratio from a Saab, you have to adjust the VSS constant... This is progress?
I'm sure you'd have mentioned if it were missing, but a miss can cause the ECM to bias rich because it puts extra O2 into the exhaust. A manifold flange leak can do the same...

You mentioned rings sealing... Did you overhaul your engine? How many miles are on it?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 02-14-2008).]

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Alex4mula
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Report this Post02-14-2008 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:

..The dakota digital signal converter seems quite sensitive to electronic inference. It displays fine when the car is in motion but when the car is stopped the needle wiggles around a little bit, and i've already set it to the non-sensitive setting. ...



This is a common known issue with the G6/Dakota unit and several ECMs. Mine started to do it but for whatever reason not immediately. There is s filter fix to eliminate it. I haven't installed mine.
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post02-14-2008 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not sure what's going on with the oxygen sensor but it's either screwed or something is messed up in the wiring. The wiring shouldn't be messed up because all i've done is lengthen the connector by about a foot since it last worked fine. The sensor is only a year old and only has maybe 500km's on it. It was reading a steady ~200mV no matter what the AFR. Then i cut a lead to an old narrow band afr gauge i had running off of it and the output jumped up to ~450mV but still doesn't change with AFR. Man i hate electrical problems. Anybody have any ideas? I tried disconnecting the PCV system and driving around but it still burns oil. I pulled all the plugs and did a compression test.
#1____200
#2____195
#3____200
#4____205
#5____195
#6____180
#7____215 (slightly off because of excess oil in cylinder)
#8____220 (slightly off because of excess oil in cylinder)

Number 6 seems a little low but I don't know if i'm ready to rip out the motor for that yet, I also think there is a ticking lifter on that cylinder. All the plugs were dry when i pulled them out except 7 and 8. They were slightly wet with oil. So it's definatly 7&8 that are burning the oil, which is why I thought PCV, because they are the first 2 cylinders that would see the oil, and also when i rebuilt the motor, the intake manifold had a pool of oil in the bottom of it. I cleaned that all out but maybe now it has some in it. I'll have to pull the CAI off and check.
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Will
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Report this Post02-14-2008 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you have the cylinders honed?
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Zac88GT
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Report this Post02-14-2008 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I used a ball hone on it, but it smokes exactly the same as it did when i first got it. So that leads me to believe it's not the rings.
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J Gunsett
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Report this Post02-15-2008 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for J GunsettClick Here to visit J Gunsett's HomePageClick Here to Email J GunsettSend a Private Message to J GunsettEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think the problem with the flaky speedo reading at low speed or stopped is you need more signal. You can do this by building a simple circuit on Rockcraw's web page (I may have one laying around If you need one). In talking to Dakota Digital I think they said to take a 12 volt source through a 10K (may have been a little higher) resistor and tie it to the high side of the VSS signal.

Hope this helps, Jack

------------------
If you can not run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!

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Erik
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Report this Post02-15-2008 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
maybe bad valve seals
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Report this Post02-15-2008 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
350Z's are slow. A C6 would be a nice setup, but I think they run LOW 12's stock.



. I can barely edge them out with my 3.4 DOHC on a roll from 35 to 40 mph and only up to about xxxmph . Stock they are in the mid to low 13's in th 1/4 and low 5's 0-60. I can waste one from dead stop in a short race though.
I am expecting my N* swap will obliterate one. It better or I am going to be unhappy


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Zac88GT
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Report this Post02-15-2008 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I checked all the O2 sensor wires and everything looks fine. Watching the ALDL stream the sensor status is always "not ready". There is power for the heater and the heater ground is good. The signal ground and signal wires go right to the ecm and theres no breaks or bad connections there. I tried grounding the sensor signal wire and the ecm read 0mV so i'm pretty sure the ecm is fine. Also I got a code 13 for Oxygen sensor so i'm thinking that I need to buy a new one. I've never heard of one failing this fast though. It probably has less than 100 hours of run time on it. It's an expensive bugger too, I guess I'll order one today though. As for the oil i'm still not sure. All the valve seals are new, and i didn't knick any when i put them in, so i dont think it's them, i'm gonna take a look inside the intake and see what i can see. I still think the fact that it's the back 2 cylinders (7&8) is not a coincidence, it must be some indication of whats causing it.

EDIT: I took the throttle body off and you can already see little puddles of oil that have formed infront of the #7 and #8 intake runners. There might be oil infront of the other runners but I can't see that far back. I'll outline the conditions and possible causes and let me know what you think.
Conditions:
-Burns oil during high vacuum, low load like long deceleration, high rpm decel, and sometimes idle
-Oil burning has become worse since initial startup at which time there was little to none
-Compression is decent ~195-205 with one cylinder at a little over 180
-Idle vacuum is good, 21KPa absolute
-Oil puddles now present in bottom of intake manifold infront of runners
-Burned oil in the same manner prior to rebuilding
-#7 & #8 plugs have oil on them

Causes:
-Rings
-Valve stem seals
-PCV

-I don't think it's the rings because the compression numbers and idle vacuum are quite good. The rich condition 10:1 while driveing (due to the O2 sensor) could be contributing to the oil burning as it might be washing the cylinder walls.
-I don't think it's the valve stem seals simply because they are all brand new and the engine burned oil before I rebuilt it too.
-The PCV system makes the most sense to me. The reason it didn't burn oil on initial start up was because I had cleaned the intake manifold out during the rebuild. I think the oil is traveling through the PCV system into the intake manifold where some of it falls out of the air and to the bottom of the manifold. Cylinders 8 and 7 are the first to see the PCV air so that would make sense why they're burning the most oil and why there are puddles infront of the runners. As i said the engine burned oil like this before i rebuilt it too, and back then the intake had a substantial amount of oil inside of it. I guess what I'll try is to disconnect the PCV system for a while and just run breathers to atmosphere. I might have to run it like that for a while to eliminate any residual oil left in the intake. If that doesn't clear it up after a few hundred kilometers or so it's gotta be something else.

[This message has been edited by Zac88GT (edited 02-15-2008).]

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Report this Post02-15-2008 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessClick Here to Email ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:

I checked all the O2 sensor wires and everything looks fine. Watching the ALDL stream the sensor status is always "not ready". There is power for the heater and the heater ground is good. The signal ground and signal wires go right to the ecm and theres no breaks or bad connections there. I tried grounding the sensor signal wire and the ecm read 0mV so i'm pretty sure the ecm is fine. Also I got a code 13 for Oxygen sensor so i'm thinking that I need to buy a new one. I've never heard of one failing this fast though. It probably has less than 100 hours of run time on it. It's an expensive bugger too, I guess I'll order one today though. As for the oil i'm still not sure. All the valve seals are new, and i didn't knick any when i put them in, so i dont think it's them, i'm gonna take a look inside the intake and see what i can see. I still think the fact that it's the back 2 cylinders (7&8) is not a coincidence, it must be some indication of whats causing it.

EDIT: I took the throttle body off and you can already see little puddles of oil that have formed infront of the #7 and #8 intake runners. There might be oil infront of the other runners but I can't see that far back. I'll outline the conditions and possible causes and let me know what you think.
Conditions:
-Burns oil during high vacuum, low load like long deceleration, high rpm decel, and sometimes idle
...
Causes:
-Rings
-Valve stem seals
-PCV



Couple things... first, a lot of things can kill an O2 sensor. Coolant and silicone sealant come to mind immediately.

Second, oil in the intake is normal. You get unburned hydrocarbons from shutting the engine off, PCV condensate, etc.

I think will ran into a problem like this on his rebuild and it turned out to be a bad hone job leaving rough patches in the cylinder finish. He has a thread somewhere, but I'm too lazy to search for it. It's a million pages long, so it's hard to miss.
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Report this Post02-15-2008 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

I think will ran into a problem like this on his rebuild and it turned out to be a bad hone job leaving rough patches in the cylinder finish. He has a thread somewhere, but I'm too lazy to search for it. It's a million pages long, so it's hard to miss.
Iwas thinking the same thing

here is the link
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/044924.html

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Report this Post02-15-2008 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:

I used a ball hone on it, but it smokes exactly the same as it did when i first got it. So that leads me to believe it's not the rings.


What material was the abrasive on the ball hone?
Detail your build for me.

Buring oil and smoking on high RPM coast down is normal for a high mileage Northstar.
My first attempt at rebuilding one resulted in an engine that burned 2 quarts of oil in its first hundred miles. It had puddles of oil on the backs of the intake valves (pull your intake and see if you get this).
The problem was that the shop had used silicon carbide stones to hone the bores. SiC works fine on a production Chevy because the iron is cheap and relatively soft. The Northstar bore liners are very good high nickel iron and are much harder. The SiC stones just polish them, and as you ought to know, a polished bore does not result in a good ring seal. Aluminum Oxide is the correct abrasive to use to hone Northstar bores. I have the Sunnen part number that Total Seal recommends around here somewhere...
You'll see good compression because your rings are slathered in oil, which is sealing the gaps and grooves during a compression check. ...of course it also gets pulled into the chambers while the engine's running...
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Report this Post02-16-2008 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Zac88GTSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


What material was the abrasive on the ball hone?
Detail your build for me.

Buring oil and smoking on high RPM coast down is normal for a high mileage Northstar.
My first attempt at rebuilding one resulted in an engine that burned 2 quarts of oil in its first hundred miles. It had puddles of oil on the backs of the intake valves (pull your intake and see if you get this).
The problem was that the shop had used silicon carbide stones to hone the bores. SiC works fine on a production Chevy because the iron is cheap and relatively soft. The Northstar bore liners are very good high nickel iron and are much harder. The SiC stones just polish them, and as you ought to know, a polished bore does not result in a good ring seal. Aluminum Oxide is the correct abrasive to use to hone Northstar bores. I have the Sunnen part number that Total Seal recommends around here somewhere...
You'll see good compression because your rings are slathered in oil, which is sealing the gaps and grooves during a compression check. ...of course it also gets pulled into the chambers while the engine's running...


I can't find any information on what material the abbrasive was but it was 120 grit ball hone from KD tools. Using standard replacment rings, and stock pistons. There was nothing special about the rebuild. Pretty well just freshening the bottom end up with new rings, bearings and seals. The top end got all new valve stem seals. The only preformance stuff was porting and polishing, backcutting the valves, CHRF springs and retainers, and cometic steel shim head gaskets. I'll pull the intake tonight and check for oil on the backs of the valves. I really hope i dont have to pull it out and tear it apart again.
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I pulled the intake and there is a film of oil in all the runners in the head. There was some visible liquid oil on the backs of the valves. How much would it take to be considered pooling? I put about 150 kilometers on it thursday and it's burned between 0.5-0.75 liters. Decelerating on the highway to a stop would result in a blue cloud passing my car when i came to a stop.
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Report this Post02-16-2008 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanClick Here to Email AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:

I pulled the intake and there is a film of oil in all the runners in the head. There was some visible liquid oil on the backs of the valves. How much would it take to be considered pooling? I put about 150 kilometers on it thursday and it's burned between 0.5-0.75 liters. Decelerating on the highway to a stop would result in a blue cloud passing my car when i came to a stop.



OK you did not read the thread I posted above.

Pull the PCV valve out of the valve cover. Look inside of the hole and run the engine up to 2500. You should never see any oil running in the hole.
If you have oil in this area the PCV valve will suck it up. I have drain almost a cup of oil from an intake once. I usually get about a 1/2 cup if the baffle in the valve cover is not sealed. The baffle was sealed with RTV at the factory.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 02-16-2008).]

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quote
Originally posted by AJxtcman:

OK you did not read the thread I posted above.

Pull the PCV valve out of the valve cover. Look inside of the hole and run the engine up to 2500. You should never see any oil running in the hole.
If you have oil in this area the PCV valve will suck it up. I have drain almost a cup of oil from an intake once. I usually get about a 1/2 cup if the baffle in the valve cover is not sealed. The baffle was sealed with RTV at the factory.



I read the link. I already had removed the baffles and re-sealed them with the engine sealant when i put the motor back together. I ran the engine at about 3000 rpm and looked in the hole, there was no river of oil directly below the PCV valve hole. I could see some oil if i looked at an angle and looked way down though. I just read through some of your thread WIll. When i said there was visible liquid oil, there was only like a drop, not half a teaspoon like you posted in your thread. How can I check to see if the hone job was ok without ripping the engine apart. Will a leak down test provide any kind of relevant data? If i use a boreascope do you think i'll be able to see any indication of the rings not being seated? Should i try putting the manifold back on and run the engine again, then shut it off and check for oil again?
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Report this Post02-16-2008 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanClick Here to Email AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After you drain the intake drive the car and see if it builds up again. See if it is just on the valves or in the bottom of the intake and on the valves.
What kind of work did you have done to the heads?

I have seen a large amount of failures in the 3.6L engine. The valve guides have .015 clearance. The spec is .0007. When I pull the intake off of them they have puddles of oil on the intake valves.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 02-16-2008).]

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