Hello guys, I wanted to install my valve covers today and I saw the new gaskets are called cork gaskets. I tried to fit the in the gasket gap, but the new cork gasket is just too big. Am I missing something out, is there a way to squeeze it in the gap, or do I have to use a completly diffrent method?
Can anyone please tell me what this gasket is? Does it always look like that? It is from a original Fel-Pro Gasket set, should I cut the gasket so it fits or somehow press it in? Has anyone else had this problem?
Those flat cork gaskets are meant to be used with the stamped steel valve covers used on other GM 2.8L V6 engines. The flat cork gasket is meant to seal against the flat flange of the stamped steel valve cover.
The Fiero 2.8L V6 uses a special cast valve cover, with a groove for the rubber seal. The flat cork gasket is not compatible with the Fiero valve cover.
You need the FEL-PRO VS50077R gasket set which works with the special cast valve cover.
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Originally posted by Patrick: Cork? Still? This is 2024, not 1924. The "rubber" ones are so much better in regards to sealing properly.
You cannot arbitrarily choose between cork or rubber; the gasket choice depends on the parts you have in hand.
You cannot arbitrarily choose between cork or rubber; the gasket choice depends on the parts you have in hand.
I choose to have parts in hand which work with "rubber" gaskets.
I might mention that there are also superior "rubber" gaskets available for the duke, which originally used cork gaskets with its stamped steel valve cover. Even if it wasn't so prone to leakage, cork is so yesterday.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-27-2024).]
My full gasket kit for the '85-'88 GM / CHEVROLET V6 2.8L - 173 MFI Engine came with TWO PAIR of valve cover gaskets: Cork AND Rubber {silicone}
Obviously to me, I used the 'rubber' set with the 'special' groove and tossed the 'flat' cork pair in the garbage.
As pmbrunelle said very clearly with a Fel-Pro part number; get the 'special' rubber/silicone valve cover gaskets and throw out the cork.
Ok thank you very much guys, I know what you mean, it's that blue rubber gasket that is formed in shape. I threw my old one away (it was brown color so probably the very first from 1987) Since I am from austria and I didn't knew about Rockauto earlier, I ordered a gasket set from a local oldtimer parts shop (it was around 110-120€, If I knew about rockauto earlier I'd buy the right one myself)
But should I really throw it out? I measured it's just a little over 1mm thicker than the gap. Can I somehow cut it, or even when it fits inside it's not compatible? I can order a new pair, but it takes time again and from Rockauto to my location it will be around 60€ just for the valve cover gasket. (Keep in mind for our standards that is a lot of money)
As always gratefull for your help 👍
[This message has been edited by Cruzenoob (edited 07-28-2024).]
Cruzenoob: I threw my old {valve cover gaskets} away / But should I really throw it {the new cork gaskets} out? Can I somehow cut it, or even when it fits inside it's not compatible?
1) Mechanic School 101 - Always keep the 'original' parts to examine and compare with the 'new' parts before throwing the old parts away. 2) Yes or keep them for different valve covers. 3) Cut the cork?
RE-READ what pmbrunelle wrote:
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pmbrunelle: The Fiero 2.8L V6 uses a special cast valve cover, with a groove for the rubber seal. The flat cork gasket is not compatible with the Fiero valve cover.
[/QUOTE I did read it, and I get it there is a groove. I would never be able to put it inside unless I cut it carefully. It is not normally made for it, but what I want to know is WHY won't it work. Is it the material? I cut it in shape and applied a small track of high temp gasket silicone on it. Because the cork is compressable and it fills so little gaps, wouldn't it be good because the surface where the valve cover gets put on will squeeze it and seal everything?
This is the worse looking one, I guarantee you the gasket for the valve cover in the back sits perfectly inside the groove
I can order a new pair, but it takes time again and from Rockauto to my location it will be around 60€ just for the valve cover gasket. (Keep in mind for our standards that is a lot of money)
So you're saying the shipping fee to Austria is €47.76 ($51.86US) for a set of €12.24 ($13.31US) valve cover gaskets?
From what I remember doing mine just a few months ago, the head sealing surface is flat, with a groove on the valve cover, the rubber seals look like an upside down T , the point to go into the groove, and a flat base to extend out between the edge of the groove and the head (I can see the blue of the rubber gasket showing all the way around between head and cover with my engine assembled). With those cork gaskets, it would pinch those down a little (likely not enough to seal) and be sitting metal on metal between valve cover and head. Furthermore the bolts used have built in spacers, which won't let the covers be over torqued, also means without the added height of the rubber gaskets, they will be loose.
Originally posted by Cruzenoob: I did read it, and I get it there is a groove. I would never be able to put it inside unless I cut it carefully. It is not normally made for it, but what I want to know is WHY won't it work. Is it the material?
The cork gasket cannot function because there is a groove in the valve cover.
A gasket needs to be squeezed on both sides to seal. With the groove, the gasket is not squeezed.
If getting the rubber gaskets is out of the question, then I think you should try an RTV-only solution, filling the groove with RTV and leaving enough of a bead to touch the cylinder head and intake.
With RTV, it is a good idea to let the RTV partially cure before fully tightening the screws.
If getting the rubber gaskets is out of the question, then I think you should try an RTV-only solution...
That's a good suggestion. It's what was used to seal the new oil pan on my Subie. (No other gasket was required.) If it seals well enough in that application (which it has), sealing valve covers should be fine. Small blobs of RTV need to be put under the valve cover gaskets where the heads meet the lower intake plenum anyway... so yeah, why not dispense with the gaskets altogether and just use quality RTV.
To me, find the right gaskets and start with calling Local Auto Shops.
If Local Auto Shop will not stock or order the correct set; then look on Amazon / Summit / Jegs / Rock Auto or search FEL-PRO VS50077R gaskets for the 'cheapest' shipping to Austria
Or "Mickey Mouse" it by squeezing tubes of RTV......this is your decision.
Or "Mickey Mouse" it by squeezing tubes of RTV......this is your decision.
Just in case you might think that using RTV as a sealer is "Mickey Mouse" in any/all applications, this is how it's now done in the factory with many manufacturers/components... and it's been done in this manner for quite some time. The oil pan on my '98 JDM Subie was sealed at the factory with RTV. When I replaced the oil pan with a newer design, I again used RTV to seal it. I suspect that most anywhere that a "rubber" gasket has been used, the correct RTV for the application would work just as well.
Originally posted by Patrick: Just in case you might think that using RTV as a sealer is "Mickey Mouse" in any/all applications, this is how it's now done in the factory with many manufacturers/components... and it's been done in this manner for quite some time. The oil pan on my '98 JDM Subie was sealed at the factory with RTV. When I replaced the oil pan with a newer design, I again used RTV to seal it. I suspect that most anywhere that a "rubber" gasket has been used, the correct RTV for the application would work just as well.
RTV cures with exposure to air. When a bead is thick, the RTV near the centre can only cure by breathing through the thickness of the RTV surrounding it. In general, there is a maximum joint thickness that is recommended for a given RTV product.
In this case, in the groove, there is a "dead end" of RTV with little air exposure. This area may not cure properly.
A joint that is designed for RTV will not have a dead-end like this.
RTV on the Fiero V6 valve cover remains a "Mickey Mouse" solution; I suggested it as the least bad alternative that OP can try since using the correct gaskets appears to be a no-go.
In this case, in the groove, there is a "dead end" of RTV with little air exposure. This area may not cure properly.
I don't understand what this "dead end" area is.
This is a photo of the original oil pan coming off my Subie. You can see grooves in the oil pan. The new pan has them as well. Are there any "dead end" areas evident here? How does this differ from a valve cover? I'm genuinely interested!
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-29-2024).]
Originally posted by Patrick: This is a photo of the original oil pan coming off my Subie. You can see grooves in the oil pan. The new pan has them as well. Are there any "dead end" areas evident here? How does this differ from a valve cover? I'm genuinely interested!
There are some slight debossed regions in the sealing flange; in the event of crankcase pressure, this makes it harder for the pressure to blow out the RTV; the RTV that flowed into the debossed region acts like a key which locks it in place.
These debossed regions appear shallow to me; they don't have the depth of the Fiero valve cover groove.
Here is a picture to explain what I mean by dead end:
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
Does the valve cover actually sit way above the head like that, or would it sit more like the following image? (The use of non-factory valve cover bolts without the shoulder might be required if RTV was to be used.)
Originally posted by Patrick: Does the valve cover actually sit way above the head like that, or would it sit more like the following image? (The use of non-factory valve cover bolts without the shoulder might be required if RTV was to be used.)
I drew the valve cover position roughly as it sits with the rubber gasket.
I'm not sure how low the valve cover would go without a rubber gasket; my memory is insufficient.
So you're saying the shipping fee to Austria is €47.76 ($51.86US) for a set of €12.24 ($13.31US) valve cover gaskets?
Patrick... I don't understand why you always question everything. I see on many posts people ask for help and you just comment anything, no offense, but yes... shipping a pair of gasket around the world costs money...
To me, find the right gaskets and start with calling Local Auto Shops.
If Local Auto Shop will not stock or order the correct set; then look on Amazon / Summit / Jegs / Rock Auto or search FEL-PRO VS50077R gaskets for the 'cheapest' shipping to Austria
Or "Mickey Mouse" it by squeezing tubes of RTV......this is your decision.
Thank you, that's a solution I was thinking too, but then I decided to put high temp silicone on the surface where the gasket will sit on, the there's the cork gasket stuck inside and on bottom will be silicone to fill the remaining gaps. I just saw 2 days ago a german us oldtimer shop sells 2 sets of the proper silicone gaskets for like 7€ per set (which is very cheap and for around 25€ shipping fee on top, the last 2 sets) If the cork fails, then I'll be able to change them with proper ones.
See photo what I mean the Area (I don't know what you call it in english)
RTV cures with exposure to air. When a bead is thick, the RTV near the centre can only cure by breathing through the thickness of the RTV surrounding it. In general, there is a maximum joint thickness that is recommended for a given RTV product.
In this case, in the groove, there is a "dead end" of RTV with little air exposure. This area may not cure properly.
A joint that is designed for RTV will not have a dead-end like this.
RTV on the Fiero V6 valve cover remains a "Mickey Mouse" solution; I suggested it as the least bad alternative that OP can try since using the correct gaskets appears to be a no-go.
Hello pmbrunelle, I was thinking the same, here is a selfmade illustration I am also not 100% sure how it seals it. I know what you mean by not sealing in the center cause the outside will harden and the inside remains soft, but I think for that to happen it's kinda unlikely, since that silicone layer is not that big and I let it cure for more than 24h atleast.
I did put some "RTV"? (temp resistance silicone on the gasket surface before placing it.
Do you maybe know how it seals it from oil, is it like oil splash or will the valve cover be filled to a certain point with oil? Because if it just splash and not pressurised oil shooting out I think it might be fine.
As always thanks to everyone for any solutions and help.
So you're saying the shipping fee to Austria is €47.76 ($51.86US) for a set of €12.24 ($13.31US) valve cover gaskets?
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Originally posted by Cruzenoob:
yes... shipping a pair of gasket around the world costs money
And it would necessarily be €47.76 ?
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Originally posted by Cruzenoob:
Patrick... I don't understand why you always question everything. I see on many posts people ask for help and you just comment anything, no offense
I often ask questions to dig a little deeper into what's been mentioned, much like I tried to do immediately above. It only took a few seconds to discover that there are shipping options less expensive than what had been previously discussed.
I often ask questions to dig a little deeper into what's been mentioned, much like I tried to do immediately above. It only took a few seconds to discover that there are shipping options less expensive than what had been previously discussed.
That's exactly what I mean, Instead of replying to help, you come up with questions that don't help solve the problem. And now include prepay custom charges, you get almost 50€ if nothing else get's added up later.
To think you took your time to sit down, lookup on rockauto what the shipping fee cost and post it here just to be in the right like this is a debatte, is actually insane. By all means and no bad intenstions, either help or just let it be.
I often ask questions to dig a little deeper into what's been mentioned, much like I tried to do immediately above. It only took a few seconds to discover that there are shipping options less expensive than what had been previously discussed.
That is a post from 2015 (I was googling my question and it came up) and that guy asked so simply as possible for help and yet you still talked a completly different stuff...crazy
I know you're new on the forum Cruzenoob; though remember that many PFF members {like Patrick} has been on more than two decades.....
Over time, I have learned that many of these 'veteran' members will actively share their ideas or opinions with a characteristic or predominant quality on their posts.........
My Advice: Grow a 'thicker skin' on their criticism......
------------------ Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles
[This message has been edited by Vintage-Nut (edited 08-04-2024).]
My Advice: Grow a 'thicker skin' on their criticism......
I agree 100% on thicker skin being advantageous, although part of the issue here might be due to the fact that English isn't the native tongue of the OP.
I'd also like to add that "criticism" was never my goal in this thread. Everything I stated in this thread was meant to be good-natured and was intended to be informative and helpful, if taken as such. But yes, as previously stated... non familiarity of English may've played a role in my comments not being fully understood/appreciated. Or maybe the OP has a chip on his shoulder? I dunno. Whatever... I'll save him the discomfort of my responses and bypass any future threads of his.
I know you're new on the forum Cruzenoob; though remember that many PFF members {like Patrick} has been on more than two decades.....
Over time, I have learned that many of these 'veteran' members will actively share their ideas or opinions with a characteristic or predominant quality on their posts.........
My Advice: Grow a 'thicker skin' on their criticism......
I made a post seeking for help, so how the hell is critisism making any sense in this situation ? He did not share any knowledge or ideas, how can you type that?! Look up the comments.
It's just annoying when I see people have question or ask for help, and this dude just comments without any answer or solution. He can be another decade longer on this forum, that means literally nothing. (Actually worse)
He literally says the same stuff from that post from 2015. Starting to type completely different stuff, trying to be in the right for whatever reason he has and then saying people have a chip on their shoulder, that is crazy...
Even a other member called him out, when I say I have a cork gasket and nothing else, either help me or just spare your comments simple... what is the purpose of having so many years of knowledge when you just type any not helpfull stuff.
Also, beeing inexperienced and having a new account are 2 different things (see the post I linked). I was never mad....just kinda annoyed that's it... but reading him saying it's because english is not my native language makes me question his mentallity, what has that to do with any of this, is he having so much freetime to comment every post out of boredom?
I agree 100% on thicker skin being advantageous, although part of the issue here might be due to the fact that English isn't the native tongue of the OP.
I'd also like to add that "criticism" was never my goal in this thread. Everything I stated in this thread was meant to be good-natured and was intended to be informative and helpful, if taken as such. But yes, as previously stated... non familiarity of English may've played a role in my comments not being fully understood/appreciated. Or maybe the OP has a chip on his shoulder? I dunno. Whatever... I'll save him the discomfort of my responses and bypass any future threads of his.
Are you even reading what you type? Not a single helpfull comment. You were talking anything but the subject back from 2015 ago, also telling the dude he has a "chip on his shoulder" for whatever reason, if think it's not people getting a thicker skin beeing the issue, it's your oversized ego 🤣
Maybe you're just a little too sensitive to cope with an online public forum. The members here all volunteer their time and expertise, and are not paid to respond to questions in the manner that maybe you seem to think that they should. The discussion can vary somewhat from the original inquiry. Heck, it helps to keep the forum interesting. Keep in mind, you are not the only person reading the responses. Even if the discussion doesn't all exactly pertain to the original inquiry, there can be nuggets of information that may be helpful to other readers of the thread.
Don't worry, I shall gladly refrain from commenting in any future threads of yours.
What ever it cost's you to get the correct Valve cover gaskets, in a years time or less when your cork ones are leaking you will tell yourself you should have just done it correct from the start, now you have to tear it all apart again.
This is what they are trying to steer you towards. The Cork gaskets for stamped steel valve covers will not last with the Fiero 2.8's cast aluminum covers. it won't last, this many of us already know, we were once there and wasted our time and money trying to make them work.
You want our help, we are telling you to get the correct formed rubber gaskets.
[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 08-04-2024).]
What ever it cost's you to get the correct Valve cover gaskets, in a years time or less when your cork ones are leaking you will tell yourself you should have just done it correct from the start, now you have to tear it all apart again.
This is what they are trying to steer you towards. The Cork gaskets for stamped steel valve covers will not last with the Fiero 2.8's cast aluminum covers. it won't last, this many of us already know, we were once there and wasted our time and money trying to make them work.
You want our help, we are telling you to get the correct formed rubber gaskets.
Thank you, that is very helpfull information. It hasn't been said before that you guys tried it and it failed. I did find the correct ones later on, so if these cork gaskets don't leak immidiatelly, that will be fine, I learn from my mistakes.
The "rubber" ones are so much better in regards to sealing properly.
