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85 - 2M6 4-speed - shift into reverse by TOM SUTCLIFFE
Started on: 11-09-2021 05:26 PM
Replies: 14 (175 views)
Last post by: fierofool on 11-19-2021 08:43 AM
TOM SUTCLIFFE
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Report this Post11-09-2021 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOM SUTCLIFFEClick Here to Email TOM SUTCLIFFESend a Private Message to TOM SUTCLIFFEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm the original owner of a 85 2M6, SE, 4-speed. when I test drove the car many years ago, I remember having trouble finding reverse and subsequently found out that it was a common issue and once you got used to it kind of solved itself. Fast forward to now. I've done all of the maintenance on the car and in actuality it has had virtually nothing break that I couldn't fix. Getting into reverse is still a bit of a challenge but instead of being just hard, I tend to get some grinding unless the shift is done real fast and with a lot of force. I don't think it's an air in the line issue because all the other shift are fine including into 1st from a dead stop.

There are two linkage cables into the trans and only one can be adjusted at that point. I have not removed the plate that covers the shifter end. Would the adjustment for the shift into reverse be at the transmission end or are there also adjustments at the shifter.?

Tom
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Patrick
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Report this Post11-09-2021 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TOM SUTCLIFFE:

I have not removed the plate that covers the shifter end. Would the adjustment for the shift into reverse be at the transmission end or are there also adjustments at the shifter?


Wear of shifter components could compromise shift-ability, but all cable adjustment is done at the transmission end (although the "plate" over the shifter needs to be removed during adjustment in order to properly line the levers up).

If you can shift easily enough into reverse with the engine not running, perhaps double-check that the clutch is indeed disengaging completely.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-09-2021).]

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TOM SUTCLIFFE
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Report this Post11-10-2021 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TOM SUTCLIFFEClick Here to Email TOM SUTCLIFFESend a Private Message to TOM SUTCLIFFEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Engine off shifts are fine so that would likely point to the disengagement issue you pointed out. Time to purge the old fluid, replace and bleed. I don't have any leakage so I don't want to mess with replacing any of the cylinders unless absolutely necessary.

Thank you ver much for this input.
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Gall757
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Report this Post11-10-2021 09:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The most likely problem is air in the hydraulics. If bleeding does not fix it, you may have a bad master cylinder, which can fail without leaking.
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-10-2021 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you haven't had the shifter surround off, then the cables can't be adjusted properly. Pins are inserted in the shifter to hold it in a specified position so that the cable adjustment can be done properly. Also, Reverse doesn't have a synchronizer. Other conditions mentioned may also be a factor.
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Patrick
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Report this Post11-10-2021 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TOM SUTCLIFFE:

I don't have any leakage so I don't want to mess with replacing any of the cylinders unless absolutely necessary.


Try just bleeding the system first of course, but...

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick in This thread:

The original single seal slaves were/are notorious for allowing air to be sucked in, even if fluid wasn't leaking out. This is the reason why Rodney had double seal slaves made in the first place... and is why I suggest that replacement slave cylinders only be bought from him.

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post11-10-2021 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Brings back memories.
Cables and connectors start to wear out and have slack.

There is a procedure to adjust the cables by using pins at the shifter. But I found that it does not fix the issue 100% and I had to move it around a little bit and just test it.

But it does sound like you have air in your system. I have replaced a couple slave cylinders in the parking lot where I used to work. not something you want to get good at.
I used a power bleeder but there are several ways to bleed the system. Its probably over due for a flush anyway.
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-10-2021 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you replace the slave, get Rodney Dickmans dual seal slave.
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buddycraigg
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Report this Post11-11-2021 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for buddycraiggClick Here to Email buddycraiggSend a Private Message to buddycraiggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I just got in to the habit of doing this.
Shift in to 2nd gear for a second or 2. Let the scros stop spinning.
Then shift in to reverse.
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TOM SUTCLIFFE
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Report this Post11-17-2021 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOM SUTCLIFFEClick Here to Email TOM SUTCLIFFESend a Private Message to TOM SUTCLIFFEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The shift inTo 2nd then to reverse is interesting because that was also suggested to me for my 63 VETTE many years ago. I did try that but no difference. I didn’t realize know that the original recommended lube was regular engine oil of the correct viscosity, and also that the oil change frequency was different than a regular manual trans or differential. I will be changing the oil and using GM synchromesh, swapping out the slave cylinder with the double seal version and purging the fluid.

I am in the process of selling the car and the clunk into reverse is a deal breaker especially when you get someone who has no mechanical background. I had one potential buyer go back and tell his “mechanic” about the noise and he was told the trans would have to be rebuilt! Don’t know how any mechanic could reach that conclusion without a first hand examination of the car not to mention eliminating all of the other possibilities mentIoned on this site.

All of this feedback has been very helpful and is greatly appreciated.

I’ll report back my results.

[This message has been edited by TOM SUTCLIFFE (edited 11-17-2021).]

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TOM SUTCLIFFE
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Report this Post11-17-2021 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOM SUTCLIFFEClick Here to Email TOM SUTCLIFFESend a Private Message to TOM SUTCLIFFEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Potentially dumb question. The slave I purchased from Rodney came with the shaft. The shaft has a protective boot as you expect, but is not physically attach to the end of the slave piston. What prevents that rod from going off axis after it is installed? The clutch fork arm has a dimple on the lever to keep it centered, but I can’t see if the piston end also has the same profile for the other end to sit in.

[This message has been edited by TOM SUTCLIFFE (edited 11-17-2021).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post11-17-2021 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TOM SUTCLIFFE:

The shaft has a protective boot as you expect, but is not physically attach to the end of the slave piston.


Say what?

I imagine your new slave looks very much like this one (taken from Rodney's site)...



If you have concerns about where the end of the rod sits, pull the boot off the end of the cylinder and have a look down there.
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buddycraigg
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Report this Post11-18-2021 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for buddycraiggClick Here to Email buddycraiggSend a Private Message to buddycraiggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One more thing.
The clutch pedal might be slightly bent.
This reduces the effectiveness of an already marginal clutch system.
I posted a DIY fix years ago, but I'm pretty sure dickman sells an adjustable pushrod.

I cant find the finished thread, but this is one that I started that explains what is going on.
Just read the first couple of posts.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...060206-2-062105.html


A lot of people are suggesting that the system needs to be bled.
It could be the master is not being used to is full potential to supply the slave the required amount of fluid.

Sorry this didn't dawn on me sooner. I've been out of the loop for a while.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 11-18-2021).]

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TOM SUTCLIFFE
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Report this Post11-18-2021 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TOM SUTCLIFFEClick Here to Email TOM SUTCLIFFESend a Private Message to TOM SUTCLIFFEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will check the pedal travel. I do have a Rodney master cyl on the was so I’m prepared for whatever might arise
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Report this Post11-19-2021 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know why so many need an adjustable master cylinder pushrod. I have installed 2 of Rodney's master cylinders and slave cylinders on my cars and used the standard push rods. They work just fine. If something needs adjusted, then something isn't right.
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