I bought my manual 84 about a month ago and trailered it home. The guy I bought it from told me I just needed to bleed the clutch. Admittedly I have never worked on cars before, but that seemed simple enough so I thought I'd be on the road within a few days. I decided if I was gonna bleed the clutch anyway I might as well install a replacement slave cylinder from Rodney Dickman, so I did and have bled the clutch a couple times now. Jacked up the driver side of the car while doing so as I read this will help get all the air out. I also noticed that the clutch was replaced in 2013 by a previous owner so I would hope there are no issues with the clutch itself.
The shifter moves around fine when the car is off, but when the engine is running, it will not go up into the 1st gear position, and makes an awful grinding noise when I try to put it in reverse (I have a video of this if it's helpful at all).
After doing some searching around on here, I also took note of my clutch pedal being non-magnetic and sitting slightly below the brake pedal, not above it. So maybe the pedal is bent and I need to replace it? Or perhaps it's an issue with the cables?
Any help or advice is appreciated!
EDIT: The problem has been solved. A torsion spring popped out of the clutch disc and was preventing shifting.
[This message has been edited by Fienix (edited 07-09-2021).]
This is an issue discussed about one million times here over the last 22 years. Seriously (almost). The archives are overflowing with info on This topic.
If you aren't getting about 1-1/8" travel at the slave, then the clutch isn't disengaging enough. Sounds like something is bent alright, as yes, the clutch pedal should be sitting above the brake pedal. Besides the pedal itself, make sure the banjo isn't bent, and that the loop is in the "up" position.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-05-2021).]
I decided if I was gonna bleed the clutch anyway I might as well install a replacement slave cylinder from Rodney Dickman, so I did and have bled the clutch a couple times now. Jacked up the driver side of the car while doing so as I read this will help get all the air out. I also noticed that the clutch was replaced in 2013 by a previous owner so I would hope there are no issues with the clutch itself.
UPDATE: Installed a new clutch pedal from the Fiero Store (and wow what a PITA that was!). The U-shaped bracket on the old pedal was definitely bent, the clutch pedal now sits nicely above the brake pedal as it should. However, this unfortunately did not solve the problem. The shifter still won't move into 1st when the engine is running. Can anyone give me some guidance on what my next step should be?
Wondering if I should try vacuum bleeding the clutch (maybe there's still some air?), replace master cylinder (though it seems to be functioning okay) or worst case scenario have it towed somewhere and let a pro sort it out. If it's an issue like what is described in this thread, it's not something I'll be able to fix myself anyway.
@skywurz It looks like the one on the left in the photo, so stamped right?
This might sound stupid, but I'm not sure how to measure how much slave travel I have. I assume a precise measurement is needed, not an eyeball/ballpark. I did notice just now that there is a bit of slop in the pedal before the slave begins to move if that's relevant.
If you have noticed slop in the clutch, then fix that first. Buy Rodneys adjustable banjo or make your own. Also get Rodneys slave cylinder piston with the double seals. Since doing the above, i have not had any problems....
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I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!
Originally posted by Fienix: This might sound stupid, but I'm not sure how to measure how much slave travel I have.
Tape a rule in place at the slave. Use a hockey stick or something to depress the clutch pedal while you watch movement of the slave, standing at the side of the car. i replaced the clutch arm on mine and it did nothing to fix the problem but the adjustable banjo and the double seal slave piston from Rodney did.
jon
------------------ Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.
Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.
I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!
Thanks Jon. It looks like just around an inch of slave travel, though I may check again when I have a helper around to press the pedal for me. When I was installing the new pedal, I did have a pretty tough time getting the banjo hole onto the pedal. It was kinda like it wasn't perfectly round, I really had to force it on so maybe it is the banjo after all. It feels like I could be losing about 1/4" or so of actual pedal travel because of the slop.
If I'm going to replace the banjo, would it be worth my time & money to just replace the whole master cylinder with one from Rodney while I'm at it? I have Rodney's slave cylinder already, are you talking about something different with the piston?
UPDATE 6/25/21: After installing new master cylinder w/ adjustable banjo and more bleeding and still no success, took the car to a mechanic who is knowledgeable about Fieros. Will update when he can diagnose the issue.
[This message has been edited by Fienix (edited 06-25-2021).]
The clutch system on a Fiero can be temperamental and as pointed out here on this thread , there are numerous areas that can affect clutch operation. If you are changing the clutch just remember to employ the critical master/slave bleeding process. I would say that you are looking at 8-12 hours of labor. If the master/slave units are original you might want to consider replacing them as well. The sad part of this story is the scoundrel that sold you the car under false pretenses.
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It's possible the PO assumed it needed bleeding only. Would the only way to tell if a torsion spring was missing be a visual inspection? If so I don't see anyone re-mating the bellhousing without repairing the clutch.
That's quite unfortunate that the clutch disc was the culprit. Usually, disengagement problems are due to some issue with the hydraulic system.
Thanks for returning and posting what the actual problem turned out to be. Could be helpful info for someone in the future.
That's my hope, that maybe my trial and error will be helpful to someone else down the line. Previous threads on this issue were very helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what was going on.
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
The clutch system on a Fiero can be temperamental and as pointed out here on this thread, there are numerous areas that can affect clutch operation. If you are changing the clutch just remember to employ the critical master/slave bleeding process. I would say that you are looking at 8-12 hours of labor. If the master/slave units are original you might want to consider replacing them as well. The sad part of this story is the scoundrel that sold you the car under false pretenses.
I already swapped out the master and slave for Rodney's replacements so that's sorted. I'm paying someone with Fiero experience to replace the clutch for me, that's a little above my ability. As Matthew_Fiero said, it's possible he didn't know this was going on. My first reaction was to feel ripped off too, but I think the car had been in storage for a while before I bought it so I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think you'd be able to diagnose this without pulling the clutch apart.
It's possible the PO assumed it needed bleeding only. Would the only way to tell if a torsion spring was missing be a visual inspection? If so I don't see anyone re-mating the bellhousing without repairing the clutch.
Yes this could be an honest mistake but when you sell a car, I don't believe "assuming"is the correct way to describe a problem. IMO what the seller should have said is " I'm not sure what the problem is" The purchaser is now faced with an expensive repair by the sellers assumption.
Yes this could be an honest mistake but when you sell a car, I don't believe "assuming"is the correct way to describe a problem. IMO what the seller should have said is " I'm not sure what the problem is" The purchaser is now faced with an expensive repair by the sellers assumption.
Now that I think of it my first Fiero (and car) was sold to me under the exact same problem. Just needs a clutch bleed! 3 years later I had it on the road...no idea if he knew or not. He changed his number after selling me the car lol.
The 84 has an entirely different slave cylinder than all other year Fieros, but it works the same. I read that you jacked up the driver's side of the car, but where did you jack it? At the factory jack point at the back of the door? That's not the best place.
With a floor jack, go underneath, just behind the left front wheel and jack on the subframe structure, just enough to lift the front wheel off the ground. Remove the master reservoir cap and fill the reservoir to the top. Now, go to the rear and open the slave bleeder valve and let the fluid run. With a heavy tool, rap on the side of the slave a few times to break loose any air bubbles stuck toward the pushrod end of the slave. Keep watch on the master and when it nears empty, fill it to the top again. Go back to the rear and rap on the slave some more until you see no bubbles coming out of the bleeder. Top off the reservoir one more time, rap on the slave, and when the fluid level reaches the full mark, close the bleeder. If the problem is air in the line, this will solve that issue. It's a one person operation and the pedal shouldn't be pumped with this method.
Have someone operate the clutch pedal while you observe the slave cylinder. If the slave moves around, it may be that one of the mounting bolts is loose or broken. I have found that on at least one car.
Also, if not already mentioned, be sure that the curl of the master cylinder banjo rod is turned upward. As novices to the Fiero, we tend to turn the curl downward, causing the issues you're experiencing. The correct position is shown in the link to BuddyCraigg's thread.
