I was prepared to make the swap to a light weight starter for my 88 Formula autocross car in an effort to pare some more weight from the car this year. What I did not expect was how much the stock unit weighs. I put it on my scale and lo and behold 14#. Some of the smaller units I've researched were in the 11-13# range. So, I'm thinking it does not make much sense to spend the money for 2-3 #. Is there something out there below 10#?
A year or so ago I went to the wreckers to buy two newer light-weight starters... one for my 2.8 Formula (for the same reason as you) and one for my 2.5 '84. I knew there were actually two different sizes of these newer starters depending on the amperage. I found one of each, one noticeably larger than the other, although both were considerably smaller than the original starters on our Fieros. Turned out that one of the starters was faulty (so I returned it for a credit), but I used the remaining one on my '84 as its starter was toast. The replacement starter works very well.
So why didn't I pick up another newer starter to replace the faulty one that I took back? Because the current starter on my Formula works perfectly, and I could see it wasn't worth replacing it for a very minor reduction in weight. However, if and when that starter packs it in, it is a no-brainer to replace it with a newer lighter-weight version.
[EDIT] I re-found this thread HERE that has some good info in it, including weights. I suspect the smaller of the two starters that I had picked up also weighed just over 6 lbs.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-19-2015).]
Change to lighter battery for race "track" is easy and can save more weight.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Saw that post but I did not see any reference to what the weights actually were. The battery swap is being considered, Braille may be the unit of choice. I was just hoping to see more of a weight difference from old to new/smaller starter.
Saw that post but I did not see any reference to what the weights actually were. The battery swap is being considered, Braille may be the unit of choice. I was just hoping to see more of a weight difference from old to new/smaller starter.
From Patrick's link to Inferno's post (quote)
"Now here is the biggest question most may want to know the Weight difference.
We put a 1997-2008 grrand prix gear reduction starter in my dads car. No shim, just bolt in. Sounds cool, way way lighter. Just bolts in no mods at all
THATS SC OR NA
-Mitch
[This message has been edited by mitchjl22 (edited 01-20-2015).]
it's stupid easy to adapt the wiring. if the wiring scares you that much, grab a starter off of a 3400, 99% sure they use the same style wiring and are the compact lightweight gear reduction design.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
There's simply no need for anyone to go that route. There are literally dozens and dozens of GM applications where the light weight (6.4 lb) starters have the correct terminals for plug and play on a Fiero.
All someone who's interested has to do is find the threads in the archives where these starters have been listed... or just go to the wreckers and look at a few GM cars. The correct starters are very plentiful.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-20-2015).]
I am poised for the smaller starter and 8 lb is burned in the noggin as the expected weight for a later GM unit. I got that figure in this forum. We need to use "search" and dig that out again.
Previously I had mentioned my use of a 250 amp , 11.4 lb lead acid battery on the 85 GT , 2.8. Yes it requires attention including frequent charging. Mine is very proletarian, an Easy Start lawn tractor unit , $ 25. They last about 3 years with care. I leave it in year round here and it does crank @ 32F. (You can always hide its lowly background)
I put the Grand Am starter on my 84. While the weight difference is nice that wasn't the main reason. It's so much easier to to drop and install the small starter that did it for me.
I changed to a lighter weight starter about three years ago in my '88 GT, just because. I bought a Delco Remy 96211 (new from RockAuto since I don't trust used electrical parts), listed for 1998-2000 Buick Regal, NA. When I looked just now, I did not see it listed for other cars/engines, but I thought it had wider application than that. Anyway, I don't remember its weight now, just that it was about half that of the stock starter. At any rate, it bolted right up and connected right up, with no wiring or connector mods that I can recall.
Over the years, I have changed a lot of starters on a lot of GM cars, and have only had to change the shims once. Seems like the starters and engine blocks are consistent enough that it usually stays the same. But as ever, YMMV.
I went with the 7 lb battery a couple of years ago. I did need the shims but it works perfectly.
At the same time I installed a battery meant for the Mazda Miata. I'd read somewhere that it was the lightest standard automobile battery made. That also works perfectly even if I don't run the car for a couple of weeks during the winter months.
Can't recall the exact combined weight loss but it was somewhere in the 16-17 lb region.
Originally posted by OldGuyinaGT: Over the years, I have changed a lot of starters on a lot of GM cars, and have only had to change the shims once. Seems like the starters and engine blocks are consistent enough that it usually stays the same. But as ever, YMMV.
While most times you can use same shim stack, have to check clearance every time. New and Rebuilt units of same type as OE can have tolerance changes and need shim change or Bendix can bind w/ or break the Flywheel ring gear. "Upgrade" starters are same.
More so when "upgrade" starter needs adapters to fit "GM format" starters. You see many people have gear head starters horizontally bolted to an adapter then the adapter bolts to engine w/ 2 vertical "GM Starter Bolts." Those adapters can be made by nearly anyone and tolerance is allover the planet.
The solenoid on my stock starter ('85 GT) packed up a couple of summers ago, and I took that opportunity to replace the starter with a '02 Grand Am starter. Direct replacement with the stock shim, and it's smaller and lighter, and it cranks faster too.
