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Tapered roller bearing 88 front wheel bearings project by Rodney
Started on: 12-02-2011 09:26 AM
Replies: 246 (12266 views)
Last post by: 0z on 01-28-2019 09:56 PM
Raydar
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Report this Post12-14-2011 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
...I may consider making some with no wheel stud holes.
...


You might consider machining small "dimples" in the flanges that mark where to drill for various bolt patterns.
Maybe only 1/8" or so. Just enough to get a hole started.
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Will
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Report this Post12-15-2011 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Because of the setup involve, the machining cost of that option would be basically the same as drilling the holes all the way.

Also, the configuration management becomes more difficult... He still has to stock a different hub for every pattern.

If he produces anything other than stock, blank is the best option.

Because of the difficulty of changing the '88 rear pattern, I think that expecting someone who wants a different front pattern to be able to get the pattern drilled in a blank pair of hubs is reasonable.
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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post12-15-2011 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
... or Rodney could specify a single setup: drill holes on a 5x100mm bolt circle (the Fiero standard), and pilot-dimple only for 5x114.3mm (4.50 in) and 5x120mm (4.75 in) bolt circles. The usual shop practice is to pilot drill the stud holes before drilling them to the final finished size anyway, so a tool change is already going to be required, and the extra dimpling will probably take less than 20 seconds on a CNC vertical mill. The additional cost to pilot-dimple 10 extra points would probably be less than 50 cents per hub in production volume, and Rodney would only have one part to stock. The optimum angular offset looks a little weird, but there is definitely enough material in the hub flange to safely accommodate two (but not three) different bolt circles at the same time.

The advantage to pilot-dimpling is that the stud holes could then be drilled by anyone with a decent shop drill press and a machinist's vise. Without the dimples a vertical mill would probably be required to do it right unless you have a precision jig already made up.

I have access to a mill and I have already made my own jig, so I would be happy with any of the options discussed (drilled or undrilled, dimpled or undimpled). My preference would be either blank (undrilled, possibly dimpled) or a single bolt circle custom drilled by Rodney's machine shop as an extra-cost option.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 12-15-2011).]

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Greenmeansgo
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Report this Post12-15-2011 08:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GreenmeansgoSend a Private Message to GreenmeansgoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jwrape:

I would buy with a alternate bolt pattern, preferrably 5x114.3

I would also like a 5x114.3
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Report this Post12-15-2011 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To clarify... I was suggesting that the blank hubs be dimpled with several patterns.

This would involve two part numbers. The regular 5x100, with studs. Obviously the "bread and butter".

A blank hub with two or three (or more?) patterns other than 5x100 dimpled. No holes drilled.
Anyone with a project advanced enough to want alternate bolt patterns would likely have the ability (and tools) to drill whatever pattern they wanted, using the dimples.

I'm thinking 114.3mm (Ford), 4.75" (Old GM) and 110mm (Solstice, etc.)
Others? What are BMW and Benz? 120mm?

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-15-2011).]

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Report this Post12-15-2011 11:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AmidaSend a Private Message to AmidaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

I am working on possibly making some 88 front wheel bearing hubs that will have tapered roller bearings in them instead of the typical ball bearings. This will take some time. Hopefully I will get this done. We'll see.



Is there a problem with the OEM bearing, or is the tapered type just a more durable design?
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Report this Post12-15-2011 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GreenmeansgoSend a Private Message to GreenmeansgoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you cant buy OEM anymore so when they go bad your screwed
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Report this Post12-16-2011 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for falcon_caSend a Private Message to falcon_caEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What's wrong with those new ones we sometime see on eBay ?

See here Auto Parts

Are they "usual chinese crap parts?"

------------------
"I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."

Work done 07-08 | Work done 08-09 | Work done 09-10 | Work done 10-11 |Work done 11-12 |
4.9 ongoing project |Parts for sale

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Report this Post12-16-2011 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by falcon_ca:

What's wrong with those new ones we sometime see on eBay ?
...
Are they "usual chinese crap parts?"


I wouldn't necessarily say that, but they are smaller, internally, and less sturdy than new originals.

For "drivers" they are probably okay. When loaded with wide tires and/or used for competition, they usually can't stand up to the load.
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Report this Post12-17-2011 08:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:

The advantage to pilot-dimpling is that the stud holes could then be drilled by anyone with a decent shop drill press and a machinist's vise. Without the dimples a vertical mill would probably be required to do it right unless you have a precision jig already made up.



 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Anyone with a project advanced enough to want alternate bolt patterns would likely have the ability (and tools) to drill whatever pattern they wanted, using the dimples.


Both of you think about what's required to change the rear pattern on an '88 and upgrade the strength of the rear bearings.

For an '84-'87 car, you can bolt in A-body or even U-body knuckles to have the 5x115 pattern and heavy duty bearings. Changing the rear pattern on an '88 requires much more machine and/or fab work.

If someone can tackle that job, I think they'll either have the tools themselves or be on a first name basis with a machine shop that can put whatever pattern they want into a blank hub.

I think the relative ease with which people find shops to part off their '84-'87 front brake rotors for brake upgrades shows that this really isn't a big enough deal to make it worth Rodney's time/effort to drill dimples or pilot holes.

Also, what about the guys who want to use the Porsche 5x130 pattern (It's been done at least twice)? You can't cover all the bases. You can't cover some of the bases without reducing the value of the product for the bases you didn't cover. Better not to cover any and let people deal with it themselves.
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Report this Post12-17-2011 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First and foremost, Rodney has to show a profit on this product or it won't happen.

That means selling the hubs with the 5X100 pattern to the largest part of the market - 88 Fieros with stock pattern wheels.

IF he were to decide to offer hubs for those who want to change the pattern to something besides the stock 5X100, profitability concerns would dictate that the hub face would be blank, and the customer would absorb the cost of the custom pattern.

It only makes sense from a business standpoint.

Again, my thanks to Mr. Dickman for developing this much needed product for our community.

Joe
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Report this Post12-17-2011 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

IF he were to decide to offer hubs for those who want to change the pattern to something besides the stock 5X100, profitability concerns would dictate that the hub face would be blank, and the customer would absorb the cost of the custom pattern.


Exactly... and my opinion is that the customer base would be fine with that.

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Report this Post12-17-2011 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

... this really isn't a big enough deal to make it worth Rodney's time/effort to drill dimples or pilot holes.


 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

First and foremost, Rodney has to show a profit on this product or it won't happen.

That means selling the hubs with the 5X100 pattern to the largest part of the market - 88 Fieros with stock pattern wheels.



I agree on that point; I have already said that any of the options being discussed would work fine for me personally. I was just considering various options from both the customers' and Rodney's viewpoints.

A final idea would be for Rodney to offer just the standard 5X100 pattern, and possibly a undrilled option as well. Then he (or somebody) could offer a separate precision jig/template/jig for those who want a different bolt circle. Of course, just having a machine shop do the work is always an option as long as the flange diameter is adequate, which Rodney has already indicated will be the case.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 12-17-2011).]

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Report this Post12-17-2011 12:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

...I think they'll either have the tools themselves or be on a first name basis with a machine shop that can put whatever pattern they want into a blank hub.

I think the relative ease with which people find shops to part off their '84-'87 front brake rotors for brake upgrades shows that this really isn't a big enough deal to make it worth Rodney's time/effort to drill dimples or pilot holes.

Also, what about the guys who want to use the Porsche 5x130 pattern (It's been done at least twice)? You can't cover all the bases. You can't cover some of the bases without reducing the value of the product for the bases you didn't cover. Better not to cover any and let people deal with it themselves.


Fair enough. You're probably right.

OTOH, I couldn't find a shop, locally, who was willing to enlarge 56.1 centerbores to 57.1, for less than the cost of a first born or a major appendage, so the "friendly neighborhood machine shop" doesn't hold true everywhere.
You'd think otherwise, in a western burb of Atlanta. I was amazed.


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Report this Post03-17-2012 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogt28Send a Private Message to fierogt28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any update on this project??

------------------
fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. All original.

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Report this Post03-17-2012 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While searching 88 Fiero wheel bearings, I found this on google: http://www.rodneydickman.com/n091.html but no way to get to it from his website. Is this an old page?
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Report this Post03-19-2012 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just saw this thread and had an idea????????????????
That in itself could be problematic!!!!!
Can an axle shaft be made to bolt to the 88 knuckle and then use a turned down rotor system from an early car with the appropriate rotor over it?
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Report this Post03-19-2012 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogt28:

Any update on this project??



Making progress. This one will take time. I'm pretty sure I will get it done.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post04-02-2012 07:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I received a sample. This is not an 88 wheel bearing. It is a sample wheel bearing to show me how they make their wheel bearings. You can see the tapered bearings. I hope to be successful on this project but it will take several months yet.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post04-02-2012 07:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great work!

Am I seeing an outer race that's separate from the housing, or is that just the cage? Will the outer race be integral with the housing?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-02-2012).]

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Report this Post04-02-2012 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Great work!

Am I seeing an outer race that's separate from the housing, or is that just the cage? Will the outer race be integral with the housing?



I guess I'll have to open it up. I can't easily chuck it up in my lathe but maybe I can saw off the end and get it apart. I'll try.

If I have these made I will have larger hole patterns machined in. Just a centering hole depression. Will make it easy to drill out if one chooses.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post04-02-2012 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Great work!

Am I seeing an outer race that's separate from the housing, or is that just the cage? Will the outer race be integral with the housing?



I just received a drawing from the manufacturer. The inner races are separate pieces pressed on to the inner shaft and the outer race is the hub itself. I'll take apart the sample they sent me to see what the inside race looks like and the surface of the outer hub the bearings ride on.

They supplied me with a drawing I need to check and verify their measurements. Once I OK this project they have to make the stamping dies to forge the parts. So it will take some time yet. But it is moving forward.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post04-02-2012 10:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rodney

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Member since Feb 2000
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Great work!

Am I seeing an outer race that's separate from the housing, or is that just the cage? Will the outer race be integral with the housing?



What you see is the plastic cage that holds the bearings in place.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post04-03-2012 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rodney

I have access to a 5 axis CNC mill and can program and machine a forging die as long as you can get me a 3D CAD model of what you want.

Just an idea in case your supplier wants to charge you a fortune for this. No need to pay me...just send me LOTS of Rodney goodies in exchange

[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 04-03-2012).]

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Report this Post04-03-2012 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gtxbulletSend a Private Message to gtxbulletEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd be interested in a set.

can rear's be made as well?

[This message has been edited by gtxbullet (edited 04-03-2012).]

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Report this Post06-04-2012 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have paid some tooling fees and this project is underway. They will make the tooling and and make a sample. Hopefully I will have a sample bearing hub here in maybe 6-7 weeks or so. Once I OK the sample they will make the first batch. My guess is if all goes well I will have them in stock in maybe 4-5 months or so. I'll post some pictures when the sample arrives.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post06-04-2012 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rodney,

You mentioned in another thread that you might be able to put together a rubber bushing set for the '88 rear suspension. Is that project still on the table? I don't mean to hi-jack the thread but I figure the same folks will be interested in both products.

Jonathan
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Report this Post06-04-2012 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SourmugSend a Private Message to SourmugEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the update Rodney.

Nolan
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Report this Post06-04-2012 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:

Rodney,

You mentioned in another thread that you might be able to put together a rubber bushing set for the '88 rear suspension. Is that project still on the table? I don't mean to hi-jack the thread but I figure the same folks will be interested in both products.

Jonathan



Had this on my mind also
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Report this Post06-04-2012 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

I have paid some tooling fees and this project is underway. They will make the tooling and and make a sample. Hopefully I will have a sample bearing hub here in maybe 6-7 weeks or so. Once I OK the sample they will make the first batch. My guess is if all goes well I will have them in stock in maybe 4-5 months or so. I'll post some pictures when the sample arrives.



I understand there is still a good distance to the finish line on this project, but if this works out and the bearings are durable in race conditions, would it be possible to produce tapered roller--or just more durable--rear bearings?
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Report this Post06-04-2012 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:

Rodney,

You mentioned in another thread that you might be able to put together a rubber bushing set for the '88 rear suspension. Is that project still on the table? I don't mean to hi-jack the thread but I figure the same folks will be interested in both products.

Jonathan


Bushing available, see here for info:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121294.html

edited to include correct link to rubber bushing - poly is available from Rockauto or Fiero Store.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 06-05-2012).]

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Report this Post06-04-2012 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for n7vrzSend a Private Message to n7vrzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


Bushing available, see here for info:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122768.html



I see a sway bar bushing but not any for the rest of the rear suspension. Could you please show where the suspension bushings are?

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Report this Post06-05-2012 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by n7vrz:


I see a sway bar bushing but not any for the rest of the rear suspension. Could you please show where the suspension bushings are?


sorry, wrong link - corrected above.
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Report this Post07-06-2012 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump
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Report this Post07-06-2012 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They are making the sample. This involves making the stamping dies which I paid for several weeks ago. I'll check up on this. I have not heard from them for a while but this does take time.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Rodney
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From: Caledonia, WI USA
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Report this Post08-13-2012 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've been told the sample is finished and I hope to have it in a week or two. I have not told them about adding the dimples for other bolt hole patterns for the lug nuts but that will be easy to do before they make the first batch. I'll post some pictures when it gets here.

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Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Will
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Report this Post08-14-2012 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Curiosity... Are they sticking to the "depth" of the stock '88 cartridge?

IE, the outer housing of the stock '88 cartridge is only about as deep as the thickness of the knuckle and the dustcap protrudes only slightly from the back of the knuckle.

The housing could be made probably 2 inches deeper before it would interfere with the spring. This would allow the distance between the bearings to be increased significantly.

Because the load on a bearing pair is proportional to the inverse of the 3rd or 4th power of the distance between them, increasing the distance dramatically reduces the bearing loads.
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carbon
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Report this Post08-15-2012 08:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do want... I have a front driver side bearing starting to hum.

There was a discussion earlier about the higher rolling resistance inherent with this type of bearing... is it really that significant?
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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post08-15-2012 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

... higher rolling resistance inherent with this type of bearing... is it really that significant?



No. The difference is academic, and it's probably unmeasurable in actual vehicle operation.
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Rodney
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Report this Post08-15-2012 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Curiosity... Are they sticking to the "depth" of the stock '88 cartridge?

IE, the outer housing of the stock '88 cartridge is only about as deep as the thickness of the knuckle and the dustcap protrudes only slightly from the back of the knuckle.

The housing could be made probably 2 inches deeper before it would interfere with the spring. This would allow the distance between the bearings to be increased significantly.

Because the load on a bearing pair is proportional to the inverse of the 3rd or 4th power of the distance between them, increasing the distance dramatically reduces the bearing loads.


I'm making them like OEM. The sample they sent me which I'm thinking is maybe a full size truck bearing is also short. Any longer and my ball joint tool is no longer useful as the bearing would be over the ball joint shafts. I'm staying with the OEM size.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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