Well I have replaced the rubber bushings in my rear 88 suspension links. New parts were discontinued a long time ago and there does not seem to be a place with all the info. I want to share the part numbers I used as well as how I went about it, sit back, relax and I hope this helps someone out! This is my completed set of 88 suspension links, Just need to clean them up and get some fresh paint on those bad boys.
Toe link: The toe link is the simplest part to recondition. I will start there. Moog part number K6170. This is the Moog parts I ordered off rock auto. It is the bushing for the front top control arm for the 84-87 suspension. These are a direct swap and can be pressed into the link after the originals have been pressed out. I rented a ball joint press and all the adapters, between the parts in the kit and a few sockets I had no trouble pressing the bushings into all the links
Lateral link: This gave me some grief. Those were designed to be replaced as a unit and are not serviceable. There is no outer sleeve and the rubber is pressed directly into the link. I discovered that the K6170 bushings I used for the toe links will press into the lateral links, however with the rim on the bushing it will not protrude out the other side far enough. I decided to modify the links a little so I can use these conventional press in bushings instead of removing the bushings from the sleeves and trying to get the rubber directly into the links.
Here is how I accomplished this I forgot to take a pic comparing the link with the new bushing, but first I cut off one side of the link to shorten the tube the bushing fits into. This allows me to bottom the bushing out and have enough sticking through so there is no metal to metal contact. Once the link is cut the bushing can just be pressed in! Now the bushing can work like normal and in another 20 years I can replace it easily by simply pressing this out and a new one in. I test fit the new links and I do not think the slight offset will cause an trouble but only time will tell. The bushing is not centered perfectly like the original but I do not have any concerns.
Radius rods: I started out by buying Moog K6178. They are the bushings that were recommended and are a fairly close fit, but there were some problems. Instead of outlining all the issues now I will just move on to what I finally ended up doing. I got on ebay and bought just the radius rod bushings that are for sale. This cost me about double what the Moog bushings cost but saved a boatload of time and effort. This is one of the new bushings next to an original. Another shot of a new bushing next to an installed one. The replacement bushings are marked TENNECO and are made in china, of course. Part number 701930. They appear to be quality parts and once installed look like the will work very well.
The installation was easier than I was anticipating. Once the old bushings are removed I just took my ball joint press and set it up so the sleeve of the bushing is being pressed. I lubed it liberally with silicone lube and the bushing just slid in! by pressing on the sleeve the bushing flexes and compresses but I did have to overshoot my target to get the bushing set and then push the opposite way to center the sleeve.
This is how I set up the ball joint press and the bushing and radius rod. This is what things look like when the bushing is pressed in. This is why you have to overshoot the bushing a little, to get the outer collar seated. Then just turn the link around and press it back till it centers. Here is a quick comparison between the original and new.
Once again, all 6 links with all new bushings!
Hope this helps, let me know if there is any other way I can help explain things.
I could get rubber bushings in press in steel sleeves made for the long 88 trailing arms. Maybe it is time now to get those made.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
It is interesting that Tenneco is the parent company of Clevite (oem trailing link bushings), as well as Walker, DynoMax, Thrush, Monroe and Rancho, plus several others companies I hadn't heard to before. http://www.tenneco.com/our_brands/clevite/
It is interesting that Tenneco is the parent company of Clevite (oem trailing link bushings), as well as Walker, DynoMax, Thrush, Monroe and Rancho, plus several others companies I hadn't heard to before. http://www.tenneco.com/our_brands/clevite/
I always thought Clevite bearings seemed cheap looking and feeling. There ownership confirms it for me, if i can compare it to it's sister companies. They do their job, but not much else, and not for long.
Can you tell me what you used to search on E Bay to locate the Tenneco 701930 radius rod bushings. I was on ebay trying to find me a pair, and have bombed out.
And thanks for a great 'How To'
-Joe
Just did a Google search for Tenneco 701930, and got a hit on your thread here.
[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 02-25-2012).]
I want to share the part numbers I used as well as how I went about it ...
Moog part number K6170 (lateral links and toe links) TENNECO part number 701930 (trailing links)
Thanks very much for posting this information.
Can you tell us how much you had to remove from the lateral links (original dimension vs. final dimension)? This would be useful information.
Here is a link to the presumed eBay vendor you used. I wonder if he is present on PFF and lists any of his stuff in the Mall. If not, I wonder why not.
Edit: Vendor confirmed by thedrue.
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
I could get rubber bushings in press in steel sleeves made for the long 88 trailing arms. Maybe it is time now to get those made.
In the meantime, you might just contact the Clevite Elastomers Division of Tenneco, in Monroe, MI. The bushings for the trailing arms are probably OEM parts, so they may not be available through the normal aftermarket distribution channels, but I'm sure you could arrange a volume purchase unless they are a proprietary (i.e. custom manufactured) part.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-25-2012).]
In the meantime, you might just contact the Clevite Elastomers division of Tenneco, in Monroe, MI. The bushings for the trailing arms are probably OEM parts, so they may not be available through the normal aftermarket distribution channel, but I'm sure you could arrange a volume purchase.
The rubber was cast into the steel arms. They are not replaceable. They do not have an outer steel sleeve. If I make them they would be in steel sleeves and press into the trailing arms like other bushings do.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
The rubber was cast into the steel arms. They are not replaceable.
Maybe in some, but not all. I have pressed the bushings out of a set of '88 trailing links and they came out cleanly enough that I didn't even have to wire brush the bores. I used a hydraulic press, because that is what I had available, but (from memory) the force required didn't seem much higher than for the lateral links. I'll see if I can post some useful pictures.
Perhaps the OEM bushings were pressed in and then vulcanized to bond them in place.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 02-25-2012).]
Rodney I think replacement bushings would be great, if you made them I would have bought them! A simple press in bushing would be great. The ones I used were surprisingly easy to install though. I really thought I would have to fight more with them. Not sure what they are for but the guy on ebay is very proud of them and is tight lipped about where he sources them.
As for the lateral links and how much I cut off I did not really measure. I cut them pretty much flush with the welded on bar. But I was careful not to cut the weld. It would have been nice to get the bushing more centered but that would have required cutting the weld and I did not want to do that. Perhaps if the links were welded in the inside more material could have been removed.
thedrue, I'm assuming you did not want poly bushings because it would too harsh of a ride? I installed poly in mine, and I do not find it too harsh, and that is with 300lb coilover springs.
Hey guys, just some info on bushings and 88 fiero related. The rear sway-bar bushings are made by Clevite. (that's what I discovered on my "original" 88GT)
They may be still available but sleeping on a shelf somewhere and not being used or cross-referenced for another car.
I can get the part number that was marked on the bushing itself if anyone is interested.
------------------ fierogt28
88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed. 88 GT, 5-speed. All original.
I could get rubber bushings in press in steel sleeves made for the long 88 trailing arms. Maybe it is time now to get those made.
One stop shopping would be nice. A full set would be my next order from you. I'll be putting my '88 cradle into my '85 later this year.
------------------ Jonathan 23K mile '85 notchie w/ 88 cradle, '87 2.8/Getrag, Air, PW, PDL, PM - Still under construction //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/121056.html I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage - me Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely - Lord Acton Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not - Thomas Jefferson The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants - Thomas Jefferson
Hey guys, just some info on bushings and 88 fiero related. The rear sway-bar bushings are made by Clevite. (that's what I discovered on my "original" 88GT)
They may be still available but sleeping on a shelf somewhere and not being used or cross-referenced for another car.
I can get the part number that was marked on the bushing itself if anyone is interested.
I can get these made also if there is enough demand.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Rodney, since the rear swaybar bushings and the front have been dis-continued for years, it would definatly a good idea to have them produced.
Alot of 88 stuff isn't available anymore. The front bar is 28mm and the rear is 22mm. I had to get a bushing from a Cavalier and trim the outside for it to fit the bushing clamp.
jelly2m8 would have more technical info on that, since he's the one that did it.
------------------ fierogt28
88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed. 88 GT, 5-speed. All original.
[This message has been edited by fierogt28 (edited 02-26-2012).]
I did the rubber because I have had poly for several years and although it works well I have had some squeaking issues. I hate squeaks. My car has very stiff suspensIon and is set up for performance, not cruising but I do hope to tone down the road noise a bit. There is not much movement in these bushings anyway so i expect new rubber bushInge to be a great improvement over warn out rubber bushings and the longevity and ease of maintenance outweighs any slight performance gain from the polys.
Also corvettes and vipers and most other performance cars use rubber bushings so if they're good enough for those cars I think they are good enough for my fiero. I also plan on removing the poly from the front of my car and installing new rubber bushings in the near future.
I am going to start on these soon. It will take more than a few months. I should have no problem getting them made.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I see a differential in one of the pictures. Is that out of a Getrag 5 speed? I have to replace the output bearings on my 88GT Getrag and am gathering info, parts, and the courage to crack the case. Any insights you'd like to share on thie subject?
That is the differential out of my last transmission. It is indeed a gerag 5 speed but that one suffered a catastrophic fate when the spider gears exploded and blew big holes in the transmission. I did indeed split the case but it was not to replace any bearings! I have a later model getrag with upgraded differential now and things are holding up fine. Its what I get for driving a turbo 3.4 the way its meant to be driven...
Originally posted by Rodney: I am going to start on these soon. It will take more than a few months. I should have no problem getting them made.
"If you build it, it will sell!"
Will you also offer a poly option? I'll probably be rebuilding the rear end of my Formula in a year or two (along with a 3500 block swap). It would be nice to have as much as possible available to buy somewhere.
@ THEDRUE - So the bushings in the pics are the TENNECO parts and not the MOOG K6178. How similar were these two parts to each other? I assume you didn't take a comparison pic of the two. Did you happen to take a pic of the MOOG part by itself? Can you tell us what the major problem was that caused you to order the second set of bushings? Have you installed the links and do they seem to be working well?
@ Rodney - Are you still moving forward with this project? I'm still interested in a set.
What is the difference between the Moog K6178 bushings and the eBay ones? Curious as they should be the same as it is my understanding that the K6178 bushing fit the trailing arm, Moog part number K5305.
At least that was the number I had listed in my notes from when I bought a set for myself (could be I had several numbers and kept the wrong one during my search). The ones I used on my car look like the ones you posted above in the first post.
What I did for the lateral links was press the rubber out of the metal sleeve that it came with and just press the rubber into the lateral link - saves having to cut the one side down.
As for the eBay guy, even if they are different he is not likely going to give up the information freely when he can make a killing selling them on eBay since he has the market cornered.
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 06-05-2012).]
Sorry for the late response. I ordered 2 boxes of the K6178 from Rock Auto to use in the trailing arms, both boxes contained the same bushings and were labeled with the right part numbers.
They may be able to be used but when I looked at them the inner tube is too long and has a smaller diameter. The trailing arm bolt cannot pass through, It would have to be drilled or something, also a longer bolt would probably need to be used.
This is the best picture I have, although they may work I decided to just order the right ones on Ebay and not worry about it. That is what I suggest, that is of course until Rodney sells them.
I did try installing one of the MOOG bushing anyway, I pressed it out of the sleeve and pressed the inner tube out and got it in the control arm. However I could not get the Fiero inner sleeve in for anything. It is thicker and there was just not enough compliance in the rubber. Also the bushing would have been way too wide and stuck out the sides of the arm.
This shows the difference between the Fiero sleeve and the MOOG sleeve.
[This message has been edited by thedrue (edited 06-06-2012).]
I bought just the trailing arm bushings on eBay. They were $99 for all 4. A little pricey but very easy to work with and had the correct sleeves. That is what a recommend unless someone finds a better option. I will not be looking for a substitute since those worked great.
Hopefully Rodney makes a bushing kit. His parts will be perfect and the price will be very reasonable.
Great work! Thank you for posting all of this TheDrue, continuing with helping people out I will post what I have found as far as part #'s.
I have spent most of my day tracking down the correct part #'s for the bushings.
Based on the Trailing Arm bushings you purchased from the gentleman on eBay here is what the guys at Tenneco gave me:
Tenneco # you gave - 701930 Moog - K200102 Napa - 2749356
Cheapest price as of this post Rock Auto at $7.65 a piece
Next up is the Toe Link which as I understand it is:
Moog - K6170 Pretty cheap everywhere, comes in a set of 2.
Finally I've struck out on finding the Lateral Link Bushing on their own, so the best option may be to do the above cutting with the K6170 bushings that are used on the Toe Links.
I've found the original part # if anyone is interested at GMPartsEast.com for the whole Lateral Link:
Pontiac Part #: 106789 According to image plate: 2P07-009 012690
This can be found by punching in 88 Fiero into their parts lookup, the weird thing is that it won't pull it up if you just enter the above part # in their system.
Unfortunately it doesn't cross over to anything else and the people at Federal Mogul and Tenneco weren't any help. If anybody has any idea of where to continue the search please let me know. My Lateral Link had several #'s stamped into it in case it helps.
side of it: KF1548 Side of the bushing: KF52
The guy on eBay must have the right part #'s to remanufacture the Lateral Links if anyone has purchased a set please post the # on the side of the bushings here.
It looks like you guys are getting pretty close to figuring this out. I am the guy selling the trailing arm bushings and rebuilt suspension kits on Ebay. You guys are correct with the K200102 trailing arm bushing however the hole where the bolt goes though is too large and requires a sleeve that can be seen in one of thedrue's pictures. These bushings are very easy to press in and look just like OEM when installed. The toe link bushings are the K6170 upper control arm bushings. That is common knowledge. The lateral link bushings are also the K6170 but I like to do it the same as the stock bushings without the metal case so I press the rubber out of the k6170 metal case then press the inner sleeve out of the rubber. I then press the k6170 inner metal sleeve inside another sleeve to increase the outer cicumference then press that back into the rubber to make a nice tight fit inside the lateral link. This is how it appears to have been done at the factory and is not very easy to do without destroying a few rubber bushings in the process. I have a 1 ton arbor press which makes it a little easier. The original inner sleeve used will not expand the rubber enough though. If you guys like I can try to do a how to wright up on it but as you can see this is my first post. FYI I have not been trying to corner the market or exploiting an opportunity as some here on PFF have suggested. I have simply been trying to provide a quality product to the Fiero community. This is a all day project at least especially when sandblasting and repainting everything and parts are nearly $150 when all is said and done not including what I have to pay for cores. After Paypal and Ebay get thier cut I make far less per hour than what my time is really worth not to mention my costs incurred trying to come up with this solution.
Wow! Welcome. I've long wondered who it was out there doing this. Thanks for popping in! I am very happy wih your product and was very pleased with your lateral link bushings!
I am very curious how you work with the bushings. I failed miserably with the lateral links first time around that I just used them with the sleeves as I demonstrated.
Thanks for your hard work! Sorry if I let too many secrets out.
