There's an element of truth here (likely; I have not researched this new report from the Daily Caller, per se) that diesel emissions from trucks have a disproportionately higher negative impact on the health of California's lower income residents (compared to all its other residents), because lower income neighborhoods are correlated with adjacency to trucking routes, in a way that is statistically differentiated from more affluent neighborhoods.
But that's not the most compelling of the arguments that comprise the rationale for the California Air Resources Board or CARB's interest in a proposal to mandate the full electrification by 2035 of medium and heavy-duty trucks serving ports and rail yards.
It's part of a general push for the electrification of California's road vehicles, as a way for California to contribute to the "decarbonization" of human societies around the globe.
Serving ports and rail yards accounts for a "goodly number" of the road miles from the category of "medium and heavy-duty" trucks.
Look for a medium or heavy-duty truck on a California road, and the odds that it is going to or from a port or a rail yard are "robust".
It's an obvious first step along the road (pun intended) that leads to the full electrification of California's road vehicles.
Leave it to the Daily Caller to spin this as an example of "identity politics".
Leave it to the Daily Caller to spin this as an example of "identity politics".
No spin here, stop gaslighting
“Decades of racist and classist practices, including red-lining and siting decisions, have concentrated heavy-duty vehicle and freight activities in these communities, with concomitant disproportionate pollution burdens,” the regulators stated. “CARB has legal and moral obligations to lessen these burdens.”
It's Intersectional Politics. It's at the intersection of Identity Politics (minorities, racism, racist zoning and siting decisions, red-lining) and Evidence-Based Decarbonization Methodologies.
I can think of basic systems engineering reasons for singling out the trucks that serve container ship ports and rail yards for a first wave of freight truck electrification.
Think of a truck that shuttles freight between a container ship port and a close by rail yard, in an intermodal freight transport context. It creates a relatively short stretch of roadway where overhead electrification for trucks, or fast battery recharging infrastructure gets a lot of decarbonizing "bang for the buck." It also lends itself to an efficient deployment of "green" hydrogen infrastructure, for trucks that are electrified with hydrogen-powered fuel cells instead of (or as an optional mode, along with) batteries.
It's not just theoretical. There's a demonstration project in Long Beach involving a contract with Siemens for overhead electrification infrastructure for trucks. It's like the old city trolleys but with modernized overhead electrification. The exact situation I describe. For trucks shuttling freight between a container ship port and a close by rail yard.
I have some posts about it in some other threads.
The Daily Caller should have called (pun intended) this out in their report.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-23-2022).]
Intersectional Politics here: It's an Intersection of Just America and Smart America. Just (as in Justice) America, cognizant of the history of racism, racist zoning and highway routing decisions, and red-lining that has led to minority-majority neighborhoods that are disproportionately impacted by diesel emissions from freight trucks. Just America, imbued with a moral imperative to seek rectification through electrification (of trucks) on this issue. And Smart America, knowledgable about the effects of carbon emissions on the entire planet's climates (global warming) and understanding of the connection with the electrification of the currently diesel powered truck fleet.
Will there be buy-in on this issue from Real America and Free America?
That's how this thread was titularized, and yes, it is something in the air. It's the carbon soot and other unhealthy air pollutants from diesel-powered trucks, which has a disproportionate impact on the minority-majority neighborhoods that are adjacent to the roads and highways where the trucks that serve ports and rail yards operate, and it's the carbon dioxide from all diesel-powered trucks that impacts, via global warming, the entire planet, and not just these particular neighborhoods.
There are reasons cities went away from overhead electric and switched to LPG busses. I'm old enough to remember riding the electric "trolleys" as a kid.
First, operations are limited to only the path/corridor directly beneath the lines. If that path is blocked for ANY reason, there is no going around. Traffic stops until the problem is resolved.
Second, it makes no sense and is an economic nightmare to maintain 2 parallel fleets of vehicles, one for the electrified routes and a second for the normal roads.
3rd. Power outage, brown-out, low power, downed lines, blown transformer ect (already a huge problem in CA) means you are going nowhere in them.
As for the trucks or their power source being "racist" . Liquid fuel or steel-and-plastic thinking bad thoughts for themselves must come out of the same factory as the guns that go on shooting sprees by themselves.
There are reasons cities went away from overhead electric and switched to LPG busses. I'm old enough to remember riding the electric "trolleys" as a kid.
First, operations are limited to only the path/corridor directly beneath the lines. If that path is blocked for ANY reason, there is no going around. Traffic stops until the problem is resolved.
Second, it makes no sense and is an economic nightmare to maintain 2 parallel fleets of vehicles, one for the electrified routes and a second for the normal roads.
3rd. Power outage, brown-out, low power, downed lines, blown transformer ect (already a huge problem in CA) means you are going nowhere in them.
As for the trucks or their power source being "racist" . Liquid fuel or steel-and-plastic thinking bad thoughts for themselves must come out of the same factory as the guns that go on shooting sprees by themselves.
These objections have "holes" that are big enough for a full-size tractor trailer truck to go through.
What Siemens has installed in Long Beach and other locations is a modernized version of the old overhead electric trolly lines. A truck can disconnect from the overhead line at speed, if need be. It can disconnect and keep running on its stored battery power. That "moots" your first and second points.
As far as the third one... the trucks that would use the overhead electrified trucking routes are mostly the same trucks all the time. These are shuttle routes for trucks that move freight between a container ship port and a nearby rail yard, or between a container ship port or rail yard and a close by warehouse.
Power outages? The trucks can run on the energy that's stored in their batteries, and when that runs out... if the power still hasn't been restored, it's not an insurmountable problem. Gasoline and diesel refueling facilities are not usable during power outages unless they have backup generators or batteries to power the pumps that pump the fuel.
No one is describing the trucks that are currently operating or their diesel engines as "racist". That's a distortion of what the Daily Caller reported. It's the history of racial discrimination in the form of discriminatory zoning and highway planning, and the discriminatory financial red-lining by banks against home buyers on their home loans that has been racist and "classist" (economic stratification by income level or "class").
That is history that cannot be denied. It's the history that has resulted in the disproportionate adjacency of minority-majority neighborhoods to the roads and highways that have the highest concentrations of diesel-powered truck traffic.
"The future is your friend."
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-23-2022).]
I can think of basic systems engineering reasons for singling out the trucks that serve container ship ports and rail yards for a first wave of freight truck electrification.
You really are a simpleminded little child aren't you?
Your "basic systems engineering" mind never once conceived of actually placing rail lines inside shipping ports, in a manner that has been done all over the world for over a century.
If only you were a small fraction as smart as you believe yourself to be.
[This message has been edited by Cheeper2keeper (edited 09-23-2022).]
Originally posted by Cheeper2keeper: You really are a simpleminded little child aren't you?
Aren't you the same little ant I pissed away from the porcelain rim and into the flush bowl the other day?
I'm not the most fastidious of housekeepers.
Now for anyone else who might be reading along, I've been connecting my remarks in this thread to a scenario that already exists. It's the Siemens Mobility eHighway demonstration project in Carson, California. The last update on it that I have seen is from January 31, 2018. I'd like more current information on it, but I would have to do more searching online.
This article has text, photo images and a diagram, and a 3-minute YouTube video.
Here is another (similar) YouTube video (just under 4 minutes) that was posted as the "Siemens eHighway Animation, Port Application."
It must be from articles and videos like these that I have the idea of setting up an electrified roadway of this kind as a connecting route for trucks to move freight from a container ship port to a nearby rail yard, and vice versa.
If MidEngineManiac (he started this thread) were to peruse either of these relatively brief YouTube videos, he would see how this modernized overhead electrification system for trucks takes the old city trolley systems that he remembers to a new level of flexibility and sophistication.
As far as Cheaper2keeper, he should stop taking stupid pills. What a dumb-ass comment from him, that I quoted at the start of this post.
If you already have a container ship port and a rail yard that are connected by a public roadway with diesel-powered trucks moving freight in both directions, from ship to rail and rail to ship, how do you "de-carbonize", as a way to reduce the greenhouse gas (CO2) emissions? I think this must be a not uncommon scenario in the United States, because otherwise, I don't think it would have already been "living rent free in my head" when I decided to "go big" with this thread.
Yeah, you could build new railroad tracks and have the freight trains go directly into the container ship port. But is that the most feasible of improvements? The most cost-effective option over the not so many years in the future that planners in the United States have to work with?
The connecting public roadway is already in place. Where would you put the new railroad tracks? Is there room for it alongside the roadway? Maybe not. Maybe you'd have to acquire and demolish whatever structures are already there, alongside the roadway. How feasible is that?
Do you just replace the public roadway with new railroad trucks? Besides the trucks, there are also passenger cars that are moving through the area on this roadway. What would become of the passenger car traffic? With the Siemens eHighway system, all of that passenger car traffic is still served by the same roadway.
Cheaper2keeper ought to electrify his brain, because lately, whenever he comes online here to post his asinine trolling of me (a new thing on this forum), his brain isn't working worth s**t.
The other day, on another thread, he called me a "manky little muppet." For now, and for at least this one message, I've decided simply to respond in kind. But if he keeps it up, with more of the same childish insults and trash talk that he's been posting for my attention, I may take it up with the forum moderator. (I've had some recent success, in that way.)
Cheaper2keeper needs to address whatever topics are being discussed more directly, and keep his opinions about other forum members out of the conversations.
Really.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-24-2022).]
Originally posted by rinselberg: ... As far as Cheaper2keeper, he should stop taking stupid pills. What a dumb-ass comment from him, that I quoted at the start of this post.
If you already have a container ship port and a rail yard that are connected by a public roadway with diesel-powered trucks moving freight in both directions, from ship to rail and rail to ship, how do you "de-carbonize", as a way to reduce the greenhouse gas (CO2) emissions? I think this must be a not uncommon scenario in the United States, because otherwise, I don't think it would have already been in my mind when I decided to "go big" with this thread.
You've got K-Marx on your mind. Also, how do you know that poster is a "him". Practice what your K-Marx party tpreaches.
Your idea of "go big", causes inflation to rise and retirements to shrink.
quote
Yeah, you could build new railroad tracks and have the freight trains go directly into the container ship port. But is that the most feasible improvement? The most cost-effective over the years in the future thatplanners in the United States have to work with?
Who are these planners, hmm? Masons? Illuminati? Enlightenati? Those who have a hard-on for fully automated communism with fully automated outcomes with a 65% reduction in population? Who needs all this transportation of goods when less will be around and less goods to be used? Your state of commiefornificatya have been poor planners of most cost-effective methods. Everything you K-Marx shoppers do bring costs up, ON EVERYTHING!
quote
The connecting public roadway is already in place. Where would you put the new railroad tracks? Is there room for it alongside the roadway? Maybe not. Maybe you'd have to acquire and demolish whatever structures are already there, alongside the roadway. How feasible is that?
Hasn't stopped big gov from doing it before. Ask the tools that run your s(t)inking state that love short distance rail projects that they need to keep getting more money from the federal teet (from other states tax payers) to spend due to over budgeting, FRAUD and elitist back scratching.
quote
Cheaper2keeper ought to electrify his brain, because lately, whenever he comes online here to post his asinine trolling of me (a new thing on this forum), his brain isn't working worth s**t.
The other day, on another thread, he called me a "manky little muppet." For now, and for at least this one message, I've decided simply to respond in kind. But if he keeps it up, with more of the same childish insults and trash talk that he's been posting for my attention, I may take it up with the forum moderator. (I've had some recent success, in that way.)
Cheaper2keeper needs to address whatever topics are being discussed more directly, and keep his opinions about other forum members out of the conversations.
Really.
Whambulance Whambulance I hear the Whambulance. Typical. C2K pointed out that many high traffic shipping ports already have rails onsite that then go to big railyards, then switched to another train to a destination and so on till reaching closest railyard of final destination that then goes by truck, and YOU/IT couldn't handle it. You want the entire WORLD to be just like an Amazon warehouse, little robotic carts moving goodies from point A to point B/C/D-Z. You watched Minority Report/iRobot/West World/Total Recall (2012)/WEF/TED talks in your basement and start thinking: This is what we need, FULLY AUTOMATED TRANSPORTATION of goods and carbon based lifeforms. Hidden track guides in roads for autonomous vehicles to follow. NOW NOW NOW, no waiting, I want it NOW. And we'll USE the power of Authoritarian Government to Dictate to private business and citizens to make it so. 2030 or bust. We all gonna die... again.
You're an intolerable KNOW-IT-ALL that gets little bits of info on various topics from the inet. You're NO engineer, you just play one behind your stained keyboard. Nor are many of those in (s)elected office. They mostly hire outside consultants and contractors from the private sector to bring most of their looney wet-dream fantasies to life.
Back away from your keyboard, go out and get one of those burritos with special THC sauce and chill out. Or get something from one of your MANY local sidewalk occupying tent encampment feces throwers.
If Cheaper2keeper wanted to bring up the idea that there could be railroad tracks going directly into the container ship ports, as he says there are in other countries, that's all he had to do. What he said in the personal way (about me) was 100 percent stupid on his part. Completely uncalled for.
Did you take the time to read my last message (before this one) with care? The message I started by quoting Cheaper2keeper. The message that you (WonderBoy) have just been analyzing.
I "Read-o-Meter'd" my message. The time that an average reader would need to read all the way through it with care.
THREE MINUTES.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-24-2022).]
Many of the comments were exactly what I was thinking. Charge during the day? That is peak grid usage time. Charge at work? I'm sure the employers are more than willing to foot the bill for that, unless big green D-evil gov using its dictator boot forces more private enterprise to comply.
I'm all for alternatives, when it happens gradually. What's going on now, is a massive worldwide control/power grab. Anyone looking to do something this fast is either crazy or downright stupid.
Anyone remember in the 90's when green power saving was added to computers? 200/300watt power supplies for a pentium with an 8mb early 3d accelerator card. Now? 700-1200watts. Yet I never hear a darn thing about that consumption. You've also got data centers popping up all over the US/world with 1000's of 24/7 365 servers/nas running. Can't forget the backup mega fossil fuel generators. Tech gets a free pass. Why? Because it will be what will fully control every aspect of what lives the elites see fit to inhabit this planet.
I may take it up with the forum moderator. (I've had some recent success, in that way.)
My God, what astounding arrogance. You are actually boasting that you can manipulate Mr. Pennock to do your personal bidding. I'm sure he will be pleased to know that the manky little "systems engineering" muppet considers him to be his puppet.
You are to be commended for your personal efficiency though. Combining such an epic amount of arrogance and ignorance into one small package.
Why, if it wasn't for Otto's engine, we all would be following oxen tail, like back in the 19th century. Otto Engine - Diesel Engine
Back to burning wood and coal to heat homes and drive industry, to weaken the economy into depression. Luddites of the 21st century, calling for disarmament too, no more nukes ! You just try to recover reparations from Al Gore, compensation for loss of assets and jobs.
The dawn of the industrial revolution, what made the victories over totalitarianism possible, and why today their minions advocate disarmament. Steamships of the Crimean War coal fired. Without power, without energy, a nation will collapse. What is in the water, is a Seven-Per-Cent Solution
Back by popular demand, for an encore presentation... The Siemens video (just under 4 minutes) that was posted on YouTube on May 2, 2016 as the "Siemens eHighway Animation, Port Application."
Siemens. Brings to mind the notable TV pitchman of years past, Vince Shlomi, hawking the ShamWow cleaning cloths... "And you know the Germans always make good stuff."
I'm kind of a "sucker" for the Siemens overhead road electrification technology, because it gave rise to that very captivating YouTube animation. But is it ready for "prime time"..? Is there going to be any carryover from that demonstration project that I posted previously in this thread?
The only clue that I've turned up is from the (California) South Coast Air Quality Management District's 2022 Air Quality Management Plan. This document, dated May 12, 2022, has a section about the possibilities for overhead power lines (catenary lines) to provide electrified road corridors for cargo trucks.
quote
Control Measures EGM-01, MOB-02A, MOB-02B, MOB-06 and MOB-07 could potentially encourage the use [of] overhead power lines (catenary lines) to provide electricity. The areas affected by the proposed zero emission and low NOx control measures that could result in the installation of catenary lines are expected to be located in commercial, industrial areas, and along existing Initial Study Chapter 2–Environmental Checklist 2022 AQMP 2-7 May 2022 truck and rail transportation corridors.
The truck and rail corridors likely to be involved are primarily associated with rail yards and intermodal facilities in industrial zones within Southern California. Examples of these areas include, but are not limited to, the Port of Los Angeles, Port of Long Beach, and industrial areas in and around container transfer facilities near the Terminal Island Freeway, along the Alameda Corridor, as well as inland rail yards near downtown Los Angeles.
The nearest scenic highway to either of the Ports, the cargo transfer facilities serving the Ports, along the Alameda Corridor, or the inland rail yards, would be Route 2 (Angeles Crest Scenic Byway) near La Canada/Flintridge, in the northeastern portion of Los Angeles County. It is approximately 14 miles from the northern terminus of the Alameda Corridor and the rail yards downtown to the most southern portion of Route 2.
The Ports, the Alameda Corridor and downtown rail yards are not visible from Route 2 due to the distance, presence of numerous large buildings of downtown Los Angeles, and the intervening topography (hills and mountains) between downtown Los Angeles and the beginning of Route 2 near La Canada/Flintridge.
The nearest roadway eligible for State scenic highway designation, to either of the Ports, the cargo transfer facilities serving the ports, along the Alameda Corridor, or the downtown rail yards, would be Route 1 (Pacific Coast Highway at State Route 19 – Lakewood Boulevard, in Long Beach) in the southernmost portion of Los Angeles County. It is approximately five miles from the cargo transfer facilities serving the Ports to the intersection of State Route 19 and Route 1 where it becomes eligible to become a State scenic highway.
The potential locations for catenary overhead power lines (near the Ports’ facilities, transportation corridors and rail yards) would not be visible to Route 1 at State Route 19 due to the numerous structures and topography between the two locations.
That truck Siemans is promoting is no EV. It's a hybrid. Combustion engine and generator on board, along with batteries PLUS overhead wire input. Glad I wont be trying to work on it to fix something.
It's kind of like their engineering department had a challenge to see how many power sources they could throw on one vehicle. Wonder if that engine is dual or triple-fuel compatible too ?
Liberals. Trying to make everybody happy by satisfying nobody.
An ultra-low NOx [nitrogen oxides] diesel engine, combined with decarbonized fuel, can be a powerful air quality and climate solution for the most demanding duty cycles needing long range, route variability, and heaviest loads. This demonstration project will support commercialization and widespread adoption of an opposed piston engine that is capable of meeting California's ultralow NOx requirements (0.02 g/bhp-hr) while simultaneously providing a 15-20% increase in fuel efficiency compared to 2017 EPA requirements in Class 7-8 trucks. This demonstration supports CARB’s goals of reducing emissions needed to meet air quality standards and reducing CO2 emissions from larger trucks for which there is a shortage of other available options.
The Opposed Piston Engine Class 8 Demonstration Project will deploy and validate with major truck, engine and fleet partners a world-leading engine design that will meet California’s ultralow NOx requirement (0.02 g/bhp-hr) while simultaneously providing a 15-20% increase in fuel efficiency compared to 2017 EPA requirements. This will be the first demonstration in the United States of a high-efficiency AND low NOx engine / powertrain vehicle in Classes 7-8. The CALSTART-managed project combines two proven solutions – the Opposed Piston (OP) engine, largely developed by Achates Power, Inc., and the ultralow NOx after-treatment system developed by Southwest Research Institute.
Nov 12, 2018. Cutaway animation of the 10.6L Heavy-Duty OP Engine, a demonstration project funded by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and several air districts and managed by CALSTART. The Ultra-Low NOx Heavy-Duty Truck Demonstrator program is part of California Climate Investments, a statewide program that puts billions of Cap-and-Trade dollars to work reducing greenhouse gas emissions, strengthening the economy and improving public health and the environment—particularly in disadvantaged communities.
I've spent the past 2 years playing around with ev's and hybrids. Not the same scale but same principal.
Know how I solved the weight, speed and range limitations ? Same way its always been solved. A screaming-loud, polluting, oil-burning 2-stroke I.C.E.
Know why I am even BOTHERING with the electric component ? Because as of this year, you cant even register a moped in Ontario. November last year the feds stopped regulating powered bikes, mopeds, e-bikes, small motorcycles, ect. and dumped it all in the provinces laps. If it aint a full-size car or motorcycle, the feds dont wanna know about it.
The Ontario bureaucrats have completely eliminated all definitions that would even remotely apply to home-built motorcycles or smaller ICE's and left the category as electric-only. More green madness. Soooo....I'll just circumvent them by slapping on the electric drive then if they want to ticket me for 'unregistered/uninsured" let them PROVE which system is putting power to the back wheel at any given time.
It meets all the electric power-bike definitions, cant do jack about it. Nothing in the regs says it cant have a supplemental gas engine.
I get my go-fast and long-distance range with no hassles like it used to be and they get to STFU and FO.
I suspect the trucking industry will be solving a lot of regulatory problems the same way.
' OMG ! ' ' He's got diesel under his fingernails ! ' ' That's so racist ! ' Sounds insane, looks insane, must be insane. Pelosi mob insane. ' Make them an offer they can't refuse. ' fjb and pelosi too.
Maybe Newsom needs to fly to India and have a meeting about air quality since no other countries really give a crap. These are ALCO Locomotives used in India today. It's nice to see our state wasting billions of dollars for a lost cause.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 09-25-2022).]
^^ lol ! I'm on fire for you baby. Lacks total commitment, displays low iq traits, postures to please in group sympathies. Convicted of causing a nuisance, prohibited from possessing matches, lighters, flammable fluids. Inconvenient for a crackhead, breaching probation restrictions. ' Back to jail you go, coconut, how do you feel now, you twat, you gnat ? ' ' I feel hot. '
[This message has been edited by Valkrie9 (edited 09-26-2022).]
Looks like the Department of HHS, the $2 Trillion dollar government department has a new mission.
"Climate Change and Health Equity"
Basically "health equity" is code for dishing out monies to democratic voters under the guise of "health", but basically they will be handing out freebies to one group over another, not based on need but based on....
They will use "disadvantage people" as a way to justify creating an Office of Environmental Justice, which will further give teeth to serve a group of democratic party voters over the deplorables who are a threat to democracy.
HHS History and the Office of Climate Change and Health Equity September 21, 2022.
Executive summary:
quote
HHS has a responsibility to safeguard the public from climate change, including the inequities it exacerbates, which is firmly rooted in public health history.
The Dictator outlawed dissent and the opposition at the big proclamation ceremony in Philadelphia. All the apparatchiks cheered, ' Global Party are We ! ' The CCP PLA cheered in Bejing too, it was a global cheer for each other, ' We will Dominate the World ! '
How do you feel about Biden_Joe the fake pretendadent now ? ' Well, you better shut up kid, or we'll have the fibs arrest you at your house and imprison your family, see. '
Just five weeks for the dempartie to consolidate power forever, maybe start a nuke war, just a few eggs to get the fire started. Philadelphia for sure, New York, Washington, Boston, Norfolk, that's five... more to come. Global warming by radioactive isotopes, for about a month, then the ice age begins, the sun's light hidden by high altitude dust, glowing dust from your cities on fire.
A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945 - by Isao Hashimoto ' If you look up children, you will see the incandescent mirvs re-entering the atmosphere as they fall to their targets. ' ' Wow, teacher, they are really fast and bright, like a meteorite ! ' ' Yes, Johnny, a fifty megaton pop when they fall below four kilometers ! ' fjb before he effs you ! Check the time, two weeks... two weeks... two weeks... Recommended reading : yewtoob dat --> ' How to survive a nuclear bomb ' Hazmat suits, re-breather, water, food, blanket, pillows, weed, drugs, toilet paper, lubricant, stimulators, a friend to hug. ' C'mon man, communism has been good to me, made me a billionaire, you know, you know. ' ~ Biden_Joe, pretendadent.
. Liquid fuel or steel-and-plastic thinking bad thoughts for themselves must come out of the same factory as the guns that go on shooting sprees by themselves.
Something petroleum-based, maybe ?
