I been dealing w/ heatsinks and fansinks of all types for decades... "Cheap" white and other HS grease are very good at this job. Can get from Digikey Mouser and many others in "big" tubes that cost far less then Arctic et al for same volume.
I agree. The large tube of "cheap" white thermal paste I bought almost 20 years ago at an electronic supply store will suffice for all my computer and automotive needs for the next 20 years.
Check the data sheet on the below, to include the 'typical applications' and 'temperature range,' and you'd be hard pressed to tell me how there would be something more suited for our ICMs. Again . . . with this costing a whopping $6.75, why even bother with something else?
Originally posted by Fiero Vice: In fact, one of distributor companies, MSD, advised one of their customers to drill 1/4" inch hole all the way around nearly at the top of cap for his 60's muscle car & noticed an improvement due to better ventilation. If needed, due to excessively dusty conditions, you can epoxy a screen over the holes. This will reduce the pressure build up and allow more air flow to prevent the ionization.
No... The hole allows Ozone to get out. Sparks generate Ozone and MSD capacitor box makes more sparks in the cap before power gets to the plugs.
A Cap trapping a lot of Ozone can make the engine to skip etc. Also Ozone can attack rubber and many types of plastics. Many caps and/or distributors have some vent holes for these reasons but many are hidden. (That and UV light are big part of why tires and wipers go bad. In many places have Ozone problems that wipers often last only 1-2 mo max no mater what brand. PA "Code Orange" days doesn't just make air hard to breath.)
But DIY adding vent holes can be problems too. For one, often lets water inside driving in bad weather etc. Is not a good plan for most people.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by theogre: No... The hole allows Ozone to get out. Sparks generate Ozone and MSD capacitor box makes more sparks in the cap before power gets to the plugs.
A Cap trapping a lot of Ozone can make the engine to skip etc. Also Ozone can attack rubber and many types of plastics. Many caps and/or distributors have some vent holes for these reasons but many are hidden. (That and UV light are big part of why tires and wipers go bad. In many places have Ozone problems that wipers often last only 1-2 mo max no mater what brand. PA "Code Orange" days doesn't just make air hard to breath.)
But DIY adding vent holes can be problems too. For one, often lets water inside driving in bad weather etc. Is not a good plan for most people.
Yeah, you have a good point, Theogre. Thank you!
Another option is to make sure the bottom plate of the distributor where there are two very small screens that vent the distributor stays clean cuz they are often clogged. Use an awl and remove them.
I guess annual maintenance to clean & reapply paste would benefit long term.
[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 02-06-2018).]
Like my explanation says, "to reduce the pressure build up and allow more air flow to prevent the ionization."
That doesn't answer my question. What was the noticeable improvement? What was the observable difference?
quote
Originally posted by Fiero Vice:
In fact, one of distributor companies, MSD, advised one of their customers to drill 1/4" inch hole all the way around nearly at the top of cap for his 60's muscle car & noticed an improvement due to better ventilation.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
An "improvement" of what?
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-05-2018).]
Originally posted by IMSA GT: This is why I always question the logic of the members on this forum. People treat the Fierostore like they are the God's of parts. The Fiero Store only needs be used for Fiero-specific body clips, interior parts, and reproduction items. Other than that, people should be buying engine parts from a standard automotive website or their local stores. It is a lot cheaper.
IMSA is correct in saying that we are not parts Gods. We would never blame you for shopping at big box stores (ie: Rock Auto) to save a few bucks, but please do it with the understanding that they are not going to reinvest your dollars into developing new Fiero parts. We will. Fieros get no respect from major manufacturers and it is up to specialists like us to keep parts available and cars on the road. The ‘RockAuto Effect’ has already impacted the Fiero market and will continue to make things worse for the Fiero community over the long term. We will continue to do our best to swim against the tide for as long as you will support us, but take IMSA’s words to heart….we are not Gods.
With regard to the V6 distributor specifically, it’s true that ours comes with an aftermarket control module. It’s also true that Delco modules have a slightly lower defect rate than any aftermarket brand we’ve tried. Delco is also significantly more expensive. Most of our customers are comfortable accepting the slightly higher risk in exchange for a significantly lower price, keeping in mind that we’ll be happy to warranty a defect, should it be necessary. We haven’t audited our retail price on V6 distributors in quite a while. Since the issue was raised, we took a closer look and managed to shave $20 off the price, but clearly that isn’t enough to beat the big box stores. We also found that we could offer a different brand with a retail price closer to $100, but since we’re skeptical of the quality, we’re making the conscious decision to stick with what we’ve got. We will also continue offering the Delco module as an alternative for those who prefer to spend more in exchange for less risk.
Just for reference. When ever I removed a OEM module, the thermal paste was dry and crumbled like chalk. Maybe part of the problem. Not to beat the horse, but a better paste would be nice.
IMSA is correct in saying that we are not parts Gods. We would never blame you for shopping at big box stores (ie: Rock Auto) to save a few bucks, but please do it with the understanding that they are not going to reinvest your dollars into developing new Fiero parts. We will. Fieros get no respect from major manufacturers and it is up to specialists like us to keep parts available and cars on the road. The ‘RockAuto Effect’ has already impacted the Fiero market and will continue to make things worse for the Fiero community over the long term. We will continue to do our best to swim against the tide for as long as you will support us, but take IMSA’s words to heart….we are not Gods.
With regard to the V6 distributor specifically, it’s true that ours comes with an aftermarket control module. It’s also true that Delco modules have a slightly lower defect rate than any aftermarket brand we’ve tried. Delco is also significantly more expensive. Most of our customers are comfortable accepting the slightly higher risk in exchange for a significantly lower price, keeping in mind that we’ll be happy to warranty a defect, should it be necessary. We haven’t audited our retail price on V6 distributors in quite a while. Since the issue was raised, we took a closer look and managed to shave $20 off the price, but clearly that isn’t enough to beat the big box stores. We also found that we could offer a different brand with a retail price closer to $100, but since we’re skeptical of the quality, we’re making the conscious decision to stick with what we’ve got. We will also continue offering the Delco module as an alternative for those who prefer to spend more in exchange for less risk.
If I have to buy a generic part, I am willing to buy it at a somewhat higher price from a Fiero vendor rather than a big box vendor... in order to support the Fiero vendor. But there are limits to this generosity; too much is too much.
Fiero Store offers lots of value for Fiero-specific stuff (selling parts nobody else has), so I could stomach higher margins on Fiero-specific stuff.
I buy generic parts from Fiero Store when I happen to be purchasing Fiero-specific parts from you; it's partly a matter of convenience, and to support you. But I am less willing to pay for high margins when there are competitors.
Sometimes I'm not sure if a generic part from a big-box store will fit my Fiero; this is an instance where purchasing said generic component from Fiero Store may cost more, but I am almost assured that it will fit my Fiero, so this is a form of added-value.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Now, back to tech talk:
I do think that venting the ozone is important. Ozone corrodes things, and corrosion is not generally a good thing. For example, there are the mounting/grounding screws for the ICM which rust, and seem to cause misfires when that happens. The pickup coil (actually, the pickup coil in general) connection also gets crusty over time.
There is also the factor that I want my project car to look good (I'm probably not alone here), and I do not like the appearance of rust on my distributor, so that's another reason to want the ozone vented outside.
I wouldn't drill holes in the cap, but I would make sure that the vents at the bottom are clear.
I just noticed one "advantage" to the original-design distributor compared to the newer one. The original distributor can have it's fingers bent forwards or backwards. This has the effect of advancing/retarding the distributor cap relative to the trigger point (which is when the points are aligned).
"Rotor phasing" is a common hot-rodder's exercise; it consists of making sure the rotor is centered on the post when the spark fires. The newer distributor cannot be tweaked so easily.
When ever I removed a OEM module, the thermal paste was dry and crumbled like chalk. Maybe part of the problem. Not to beat the horse, but a better paste would be nice.
I was inspired by this thread to brave the wilds of my basement... and find the tube of thermal paste I've been using all these years.
My tube has slightly different graphics on it ('cause it's old!), but this is what i have...
Description: 5 oz / 150g silicone heat transfer compound, paste Designed for use in transferring heat away from electrical and electronic devices such as; transistors, power diodes, semi-conductors, ballast's and thermocouple wells. High thermal conductivity, high dielectric constant, high dissipation factor, use with heat sinks or metal chassis, will not dry or harden. Contains zinc oxide and polydimethyl siloxane. Brand name(s) : MG Chemicals
Features: High thermal conductivity High dielectric constant High dissipation factor Use with heat sinks or metal chassis Contains zincs oxides and polydimenthyl siloxane * Will not dry or harden
I am by no means stating that this is superior to any of the other options which have been presented here. All I know is that this stuff has served me very well over the years.
I think Fiero Store prices are on point for the products and service they provide, ie. parts almost guaranteed to be exact fits the first time. My only complaint is that the shipping charges can be extreme -- the big box stores often offer free or cheap shipping options, probably because of quantity contracts with the shippers. I believe the Fiero Store is owned by a company that supplies parts to more than just Fieros, and it would be well-advised to seek out the cheaper shipping methods. My $02.
And Patrick -- that paste looks good to me. According to the chart, it can't stand quite as much heat as the Super Lube, but I'm sure it is fine for our application.
"Super Lube has a five year recommended shelf life. It does not dry out, go rancid, or lose its effectiveness, as long as it is in its original container, has been stored under reasonable ambient conditions, and has not been contaminated with foreign material.
In most cases, the product can be used after the recommended shelf life. However, we recommend laboratory re-certification to ensure that the product will continue to provide the expected performance in the intended application.
Slight sedimentation in some oils may occur over time and generally does not impact performance adversely.
Grease may show deterioration by a significant change in the consistency as measured by worked or un-worked penetration, a change in color or odor, a noticeable change in texture, or by excessive oil separation. Some "bleed" is normal. "
So, I guess, in a safe bet, don't buy in a bulk. Just one tube as we go. Make sure to check yearly & reapply as needed to get your money's worth.
It might not need to be reapplied yearly if it's still in good condition, but I'm gonna keep an eye on it & open the cap & clean & reapply as needed as part of maintenance schedule.
I'm gonna keep an eye on it & open the cap & clean & reapply as needed as part of maintenance schedule.
And how are you "gonna keep an eye on it" without actually removing the ICM from the base of the distributor?
I can't imagine there'd be more than a handful of Fiero owners on the entire planet who'd want to go through the hassle of reapplying this thermal paste every year... especially when it's been demonstrated that doing the job properly once will enable the ICM to last ten years... and counting.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-08-2018).]
Back in the days when I had a running Fiero, I practised the annual ICM removal, cleaning, and re-application of new thermal compound as part of the tuneup.
I was using the yellow-tubed Thermalcote stuff. To my knowledge, it is not intended for automotive, but it's what I stock on my shelf. I don't know how Thermalcote compares to the alternatives.
When I did remove the ICM, I sometimes found water between it and the distributor base, suggesting that something wasn't flat and/or that the 1 year service interval wasn't overkill.
It's not really much of a hassle when part of the fun of owning a toy car is working on it.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-08-2018).]
Back in the days when I had a running Fiero, I practised the annual ICM removal, cleaning, and re-application of new thermal compound as part of the tuneup.
Okay, there's two of you on the planet then who'd put up with that.
And how are you "gonna keep an eye on it" without actually removing the ICM from the base of the distributor?
I can't imagine there'd be more than a handful of Fiero owners on the entire planet who'd want to go through the hassle of reapplying this thermal paste every year... especially when it's been demonstrated that doing the job properly once will enable the ICM to last ten years... and counting.
From my last message, I said as needed. Use your judgement, Patrick. I don't know what my experience will be like. The whole point is to prolong the life of ICM and don't let it get deteriorated to the point where it's too late to save it. B/c of yearly maintenance, you will reduce the chance of getting stuck on the side of the road elsewhere like it did for me several times with my first Fiero over 25 years ago.
I've read from other Fiero owners who would recommend replacing ICM every few years depends on how often you drive your car. I would use mine until it gets deteriorated or breaks down, but keep a backup on hand. How hard is it to unscrew the cap & check on it? Once a year doesn’t sound too bad.
You don't have to take off the ICM if the lube was new & looks clean & intact. Just use your flashlight & take a look all the way around. I'm sure it's probably okay for the first few years if you don't drive it much. But if it gets dirty or leaky, I might clean & reapply. What is the harm in doing that?
Is there something else you know that I'm not aware of?
[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 02-08-2018).]
Back in the days when I had a running Fiero, I practised the annual ICM removal, cleaning, and re-application of new thermal compound as part of the tuneup.
I was using the yellow-tubed Thermalcote stuff. To my knowledge, it is not intended for automotive, but it's what I stock on my shelf. I don't know how Thermalcote compares to the alternatives.
When I did remove the ICM, I sometimes found water between it and the distributor base, suggesting that something wasn't flat and/or that the 1 year service interval wasn't overkill.
It's not really much of a hassle when part of the fun of owning a toy car is working on it.
Yeah, I agree. It doesn't hurt to check & be on the safe side.
I also use computer heatsink compound (the white stuff, with Zinc Oxide in it). You only need enough to fill the microscopic gaps between the two parts. Also, using way too much heatsink compound can be just as bad as not using enough. And make sure to tighten the two ICM mounting screws evenly, so the ICM lays flat.
The whole point is to prolong the life of ICM and don't let it get deteriorated to the point where it's too late to save it.
Then do what actually needs to be done... and you'll only have to do it once.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Do what I did ten years ago, and ignition problems will be a thing of the past. I'm still running the same ignition module after all this time. Transferred the distributor from my '86 GT to my '88 Formula, then autocrossed the car for three years as well.
You don't have to take off the ICM if the lube was new & looks clean & intact. Just use your flashlight & take a look all the way around. I'm sure it's probably okay for the first few years if you don't drive it much. But if it gets dirty or leaky, I might clean & reapply. What is the harm in doing that?
How much of the paste are you using? I don't think I've ever seen one where its oozed out around the module to the point you could see it with a flashlight.
How much of the paste are you using? I don't think I've ever seen one where its oozed out around the module to the point you could see it with a flashlight.
Not too much, but a thin layer on ICM and distributor. Pull it off & add some to any missing spots.
Just enough to make contact across the whole surface & fill the gaps between two surfaces. Too much will hurt heat transfer and insulate it.
[This message has been edited by Fiero Vice (edited 02-11-2018).]
