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13" Brake Rotor Upgrade for the 88's by fieroguru
Started on: 10-26-2011 08:08 PM
Replies: 231 (8975 views)
Last post by: fieroguru on 09-07-2013 08:17 AM
Raydar
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Report this Post02-22-2012 05:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Wow, that fills the wheels SO much better! Very nice. Did anyone else have that same issue with the sliders? Not sure I like having to do that to them.


Not a big deal. I had to push mine back quite a bit, but my old pads were also very worn. That's normal when replacing pads.
They certainly didn't seem to end up outside the designed range of motion.

They look great, Alex!

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fieroguru
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Report this Post02-22-2012 06:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Did anyone else have that same issue with the sliders? Not sure I like having to do that to them.


That is very close to the stock slider position with brand new pads. The caliper needs to be able to move inboard to adjust for pad wear on the outer pad.

The back side of my rotors is .352" deeper than a worn stock 88 rotor. .313" is used for the caliper bracket, so the relative slider position is about .039" different. The .039" value is to a worn rotor so when compared to a new stock 88 rotor the difference is probably in the .020" to .030" range, which is quite small.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-22-2012).]

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fieroguru
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Report this Post02-22-2012 06:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

fieroguru

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Great pictures Alex! These are my favorites and really show off the visual impact of this kit vs. the 12" C4.

 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Rotor comparison;


With wheel before & after look;



[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-22-2012).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post02-22-2012 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


That is very close to the stock slider position with brand new pads. The caliper needs to be able to move inboard to adjust for pad wear on the outer pad.

The back side of my rotors is .352" deeper than a worn stock 88 rotor. .313" is used for the caliper bracket, so the relative slider position is about .039" different. The .039" value is to a worn rotor so when compared to a new stock 88 rotor the difference is probably in the .020" to .030" range, which is quite small.



Alright, thanks for the info, good to hear it's normally that way and won't cause an issue.
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post02-22-2012 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So today I put about 50mi on these new rotors. I really like them. Now the car has some whoa! Not pushing super hard as they are still somewhat braking in. It is a huge difference at least from this specific car perspective. They just need a slight touch and they slow like now. Don't even have to push hard. They respond very quickly and I think most of the time you won't need to use full power. At the end of the run I went a little harder and could lock the front maybe too easy. I'll need to modulate these with manual ABS on panic mode. Will test more on that once I get them fully brake in. You won't like this Paul but I think a front only upgrade is what most people will need. Maybe at the track the rear ones may help some more but most of the braking is at the front anyway. I probably won't even bother with the big brake booster. Will see later but up to now I think I have plenty. Just in case I am using the EBC green stuff pads at the front. Not sure how much they add to the good performance. I'm happy. Get this kit and you will be too
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fieroguru
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Report this Post02-23-2012 06:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alex, I am glad you like the fronts and saw and significant improvement!

You should at least try the rears as well. Increasing the front braking without increasing the rear will increase the chance for the fronts to lock up (the rears are not contributing their fair share of the braking loads and are not helping to transfer more weight to the fronts - to help improve baring traction), especially in the rain or when you go into a corner too fast. The factory brake bias is what GM determined to be the best overall compromise between braking power and vehicle stability while braking under a wide range of road conditions. Since your car has slightly more weight in the rear, one could argue that you should need slightly more rear braking vs. less. On the 88, using the 13" rotors on all 4 corners will increase the available braking power (due to mechanical advantage caused by the change in caliper position), and retaining the stock brake bias will ensure the car remains stock like in its braking stability/control.

I say this because I want you to get the most out of this kit and keep your car safe under a wide range of road conditions and braking situations.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-23-2012).]

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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post02-23-2012 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can't wait to get mine installed and drive the car! I wish spring would hurry up and get here.
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Report this Post02-23-2012 10:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redraifClick Here to Email redraifSend a Private Message to redraifEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dude im so freaking jealous... Sounds like some good performance gains and definitely some pretty brakes happening for the 88s...

------------------
1984 Indy Fiero SE Pace Car Replica #770
"SE" Stormtrooper Edition
Rescued, resuscitated and reversibly modified! (I'm so not done yet!)

Poly all round & Black Drag DR-34s
Frt: 225/45 on 18x8 (47 offset w/ 8-9mm spacer) 1.5 coils cut off 1984 WS6 springs
Rear: 265/35 on 18x8.5 (45 offset) Coil-overs w/ 10 inch 300lb springs & 7 inch sleeve

Everything is the previous owners fault!

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fieroguru
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Report this Post03-06-2012 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
UPDATE: I am working through an issue with the vendor for the Style 3 Blingy Rotors... just ordered a new batch (Same vendor, same part #) and it looks like they have changed the drill/slotting pattern since my last purchase.

Old Style 3:


New Style 3:


This new style just does not have the same visual impact, so I am checking to see if they will get some of the older style 3 rotors even if I have to buy them in larger quantities. Also checking with a few other vendors to see what their drill/slotted pattern looks like. Anyone who had recently PM'd with interest in a brake kit already has a PM from me explaining the issue.

The Old Style 2 (bottom of pic) has more visual impact than this new design...


More to come...

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 03-06-2012).]

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madcurl
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Report this Post03-07-2012 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Finally got these installed. Did only the front to test that first. If good enough then I would do the other half on my other car. Install was pretty straight forward. I used a Dremel to clean faster the area where the centering ring goes. The rings fit tight. The brackets also fit tight and good. Had to push the sliders all the way back to fit the caliper over them with the new pads. Tis was the hardest part but ok. They look great. Won't be able to test yet as I need to fix one of my mufflers. Hopefully by the weekend I should be done.

Rotor comparison;







Sweet. What is your wheel diameter and please give us the details on braking once you're back on the road.
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Report this Post03-07-2012 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:







My only question is how do you keep the center caps of your wheel from flying off? I lost two of them before I gave up.

Oh and the brakes look good too.
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Report this Post03-07-2012 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
madcurl; Those are 18s. Still need to install the rear ones.

jscott1; The trick is to put one loop of electrical tape around the inner cap ring. That way they will not rotate not fly off. My wheel place gave me that tip lomg time ago when I complained.
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Report this Post03-11-2012 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My vendor stopped selling the Style 3 rotors, so they are no longer available.

I have 2 full sets of this new style drilled and ready to ship (had 3 at the time of the pic, but one set ships in the morning):



I also put some kits on eBay if you would feel more comfortable making the purchase through that process.

Hardware Only kits:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-...em2c62b8c041&vxp=mtr

Full Kits with drilled/slotted/zinc coated rotors:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-...em2c63bb7e8f&vxp=mtr
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88GTFTW
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Report this Post05-17-2012 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88GTFTWSend a Private Message to 88GTFTWEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Guru!
You still selling these?! Would really like a set of the hardware!
Let me know!
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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-17-2012 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88GTFTW:

Hey Guru!
You still selling these?! Would really like a set of the hardware!
Let me know!


Yes, I still have plenty (and working on the next batch of 25). I have 1 hardware set already painted and ready to ship in the morning.

There is a $100 off sale for May, so a hardware only kit is $250 shipped (including Canada).
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/061710.html

I prefer paypal at fieroguru@lycos.com but will accept money orders as well (PM me for my address).
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Report this Post05-17-2012 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SourmugSend a Private Message to SourmugEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi:

I'm thinking of getting the rotors now as I have already purchased your harware. Could you let me know what the total would be shipped to Calgary, Alberta Canada, T3K 5A1?

Thanks
Nolan
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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-17-2012 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Sourmug:

Hi:

I'm thinking of getting the rotors now as I have already purchased your harware. Could you let me know what the total would be shipped to Calgary, Alberta Canada, T3K 5A1?

Thanks
Nolan


PM sent
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post05-17-2012 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I finally installed the rear ones two weeks ago. Need to post more pics.
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Report this Post05-26-2012 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My daily driver 88 was in need of new brakes but it has 16x7 38ET wheels. I just couldn't bring myself to run the C4 12" rotor setup again, so with 1 mod each to the caliper., bridge and brake hose end, I was able to install my 13" brake kit behind my 16" wheels.

I have the fronts done in these pictures and took it out for a test drive, bedded in the brakes (multiple stops from 70 to 15 mph), and then again checked everything for any rubbing... now I get to do the rear.



Stock rear for comparison:


Even though I got this them to fit on my 16" wheels, I am still marketing this kit for 17" and larger.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-26-2012).]

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mattwa
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Report this Post05-26-2012 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, not much clearance there. Do you by chance have pictures of what the required modifications are to the calipers to fit those brakes?
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fieroguru
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Report this Post05-26-2012 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Wow, not much clearance there. Do you by chance have pictures of what the required modifications are to the calipers to fit those brakes?


The shiney parts had material removed from them.


The nose of the bridge had about 1/16" removed, the square block on the caliper 1/8" and the corner of the hose end had it's corner ground down as well. These amounts were what was needed for my wheels, but others will probably need different mods. This caliper was for the initial mockup, then I grabbed a set off the shelf and did all the mods and painted the bridges. The car is getting Russel Stainless Braided hoses, so those were modified when installed.

While I have the front apart, I removed both front wheel bearings and repacked them with fresh grease. The car still needs a lower ball joint and the rack bushing, but those will wait for another day... have several customer projects to get done by Tuesday.
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Report this Post05-26-2012 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea, that's a little too close for my comfort zone, I think I'll stick with my 12" C4's for now.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 10-31-2012).]

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Fierokid87
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Report this Post05-27-2012 11:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Click Here to Email Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I need bigger rims for this upgrade
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Alex4mula
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Report this Post05-29-2012 12:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally got some pictures. The brown thing is not coffee spill Car just got parked after being driven in Beryl tropical storm. After doing the rear the front does not lock up as easily but I have one side (not sure front or rear) that still locks faster than the rest. Need to do some 60-0 testing but these feel so much better and makes feel my GT so inadequate now.


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Report this Post10-30-2012 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for j bf1Click Here to Email j bf1Send a Private Message to j bf1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Currently the C4 12" brake rotor kit for the 88 Fieros is one of the best bang for the buck upgrades for the 88 fieros (Phil's $100 master cylinder upgrade is probably the best). The only real downside to the 12" rotor upgrade is the rotor to lower a-arm contact issue, which is more common on the lowered 88's.

I set out to find a better 12" rotor that would allow similar bracket simplicity of the 12" Vette rotor upgrade, but with slightly less rotor depth to avoid the lower a-arm interference. Unfortunately, I didn't find a better 12" rotor.... but I did find a 13" one! The 13" fieroguru rotor is about 3mm less deep than the 12" Vette rotor, so it should not have any clearance issues with the lower a-arm on a stock 88 fiero.

One of the major downsides of the larger rotors is their higher weight:
Stock 88 rotor: 11.2 lbs
12" vette rotor: 14.6 lbs
13" fieroguru rotor: 18.x lbs

At around 18 lbs, the 13" rotor upgrade would add about 30 lbs in weight overall, but the benefit will be about 31% increase in braking torque vs. the stock 88 rotors.

Along with the additional braking performance, the larger rotors better fill out the wheels. Here are some pics with 16x7 Mille Miglia wheels:
Stock 88 Rotor:

12" Vette Rotors:

13" fieroguru Rotor (in a 16" wheel):


Here the rotor was drilled for the 5x100 pattern (I will have concentric rings, but for mock up the wheel studs are precise enough):


Rotor on the wheel bearing:


Back side showing the caliper clearance as well as the general shape/size of the needed bracket:



The next step is to slide the 13" rotor in place on my stock 88 and confirm clearance to the lower a-arm, then finish the design of the brackets to optimize the available clearance between the rotor/caliper and caliper/wheel. If I can get it all worked out to my standards, then I will entertain selling a 13" rotor upgrade kit for the 88's (and only the 88's).


What is the diameter of the 88 rotors?

Thanks
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Report this Post10-31-2012 05:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by j bf1:

What is the diameter of the 88 rotors?

Thanks


10.43"
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Report this Post11-08-2012 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rare87GTClick Here to Email Rare87GTSend a Private Message to Rare87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are the 13" rotors off a C5 vette then I take it? I might look into the bracket kit and then order the rotors on the side later.

------------------

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 11-08-2012).]

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rourke_87_T-Top
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Report this Post11-08-2012 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rourke_87_T-TopClick Here to Email rourke_87_T-TopSend a Private Message to rourke_87_T-TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rare87GT:

Are the 13" rotors off a C5 vette then I take it? I might look into the bracket kit and then order the rotors on the side later.


If you do purchase a kit , fieroguru can share the info on the EBC rotors I am using.
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Report this Post11-08-2012 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rare87GT:

Are the 13" rotors off a C5 vette then I take it? I might look into the bracket kit and then order the rotors on the side later.


They are an OEM 6 bolt setup, so no, they are not from a C5. The rotor sets I use (drilled/slotted/zinc coated) cost just under $250 shipped. The plain rotors are in the $130 range and there are other higher end options that cost more.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-08-2012).]

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rourke_87_T-Top
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Report this Post12-10-2012 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rourke_87_T-TopClick Here to Email rourke_87_T-TopSend a Private Message to rourke_87_T-TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
here is a pic of rotor on the higher end.
 
quote
Originally posted by rourke_87_T-Top:
...I traded "fieroguru" a pair of '88 Koni front shocks for his 13" brake adapters, I bought EBC rotors and green stuff pads, these are going on the black coupe, with the black pearl Centerline Wheels, needs a tint job too. pic of the rotor

[This message has been edited by rourke_87_T-Top (edited 12-10-2012).]

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ltlgt88
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Report this Post09-06-2013 11:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlgt88Send a Private Message to ltlgt88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
FieroGuru you still selling these kits? what are the prices now/?

Also i have a lowered 88 via springs, but was going to also put the lowering ball joints on...how is this going to effect this kit? is there going to be rubbing on the front or rear? I am running a 17x7.5 wheel.
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Report this Post09-07-2013 08:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlgt88:

FieroGuru you still selling these kits? what are the prices now/?

Also i have a lowered 88 via springs, but was going to also put the lowering ball joints on...how is this going to effect this kit? is there going to be rubbing on the front or rear? I am running a 17x7.5 wheel.


Yes, the mall thread has current pricing and is here:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060122.html

The rear doesn't have any risk of interference.

For the front:
You can lower your car as mush as you like with only lowering springs and never have an interference issue between the rotor and a-arm nose (assuming stock lower a-arm).

If you have lowering springs & lowering ball joints, you will have an interference issue and need to trim the nose of the lower a-arm..

If you have stock springs with stock height bump stops and lowering ball joints, there is a small chance (not a guarantee) that there will not be any interference, but this has never been verified. By removing the front spring, raising the wheel to hit the bump stops and measuring the available room between the nose of the a-arm and the backside of the stock 88 rotor, I could determine if there is adequate clearance, or if there will be an interference issue.

If you have stock springs, cut down bump stops and lowering ball joints, you will have an interference issue at full suspension compression and need to trim the nose of the lower a-arm.
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